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Vadimik
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Posted - 2007.12.16 10:43:00 -
[1]
Congratulation !
You are feeding the very beast that caused the prices to crash.
In short-term, getting your isk back from a no-demand investment may seem like a good idea. But in long-term, you are pretty much insuring that any future attempt at profitable invention of high-price items are doomed to follow this path.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:05:00 -
[2]
Well, thats what people get for oversaturating the market. It's got to the point where any Tom **** and Harry can start mass production of anything
~Nyron |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:56:00 -
[3]
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "0 profit".
If it's an inventor who just can't sell his blueprint at all since nobody seems to be buying, there is profit to be had in manufacturing and selling at close to no markup. If somebody bought a decent ME blueprint cheap from a clueless inventor, he might be manufacturing it cheaper as you think, so he still makes a profit. Of course, it's safer to assume nowadays that people are stupid and sell for no markup, but you never know... some people might just be smarter as you expect them to be, profiteering on the backs of the others that are stupid.
If you think people are selling for 0 profit, well, you know what to do, don't you ? Buy their stock and relist as whatever markup you deem appropriate. That was ALWAYS the way to deal with "minerals I reprocess from ore I mine are free" people. I fail to see why this shouldn't apply in here too.
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Daeva Vios
PhaseShifter Technologies Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 16/12/2007 11:58:22 Is there a particular reason to care? If it isn't profitable, don't build. When the market reaches saturation, the only thing you can do aside from what Akita suggested is pull out and find a more lucrative market.
You're not forced to sell only one thing. Don't act like you are. It makes you look foolish.
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.12.16 14:29:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 16/12/2007 14:34:13
Originally by: Kirjava It's got to the point where any Tom Dick and Harry can start mass production of anything
HA! HA!
Everybody wanted invention to get a piece of the T2 profits, too bad theres no profit because of the inventards.
But hey, look at the bright side, at the cost of ruining the profitbility of manufacturing and ruining players career paths (manufacturing), items are selling for less than what they cost to produce.
Excuse me while I laugh all of the way to the bank. ---
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Noveron
Caldari Long Live Me
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Posted - 2007.12.16 14:45:00 -
[6]
dont warn them pal, we, the buyers are happy. ---
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.12.16 14:56:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 16/12/2007 15:02:59
Originally by: Noveron dont warn them pal, we, the buyers are happy.
Yeah, but if you invested all kinds of money into invention only to lose money hand over fist, you wouldn't be happy that you wasted your time.
The problem with invention is there is no real risk, players can't go pew pew invention assets.
It's like Hello Kitty Online.
If invention was low-sec POS only, T2 items would be cheaper than they were before invention (good), and only players who worked as a team would be able to invent, not these solo station hugger players who don't even undock from Jita 4-4 and whine on the forum omg jita laggy ccp fix jita!!!!
You need to have at least SOME smarts to run a low sec POS, the inventards would not have these smarts and therefore wouldnt exist, and any other inventards that come to low sec would promptly get blown out of the sky.
Why do you think moon minerals are profitable? ---
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:10:00 -
[8]
To be quite honest I am looking at buying up the entire supply of ME datacores at some point in the future then trippleing them in price to make the BPO's worth more - I aim on buying a few of them in the future.
~Nyron |
Daeva Vios
PhaseShifter Technologies Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kirjava To be quite honest I am looking at buying up the entire supply of ME datacores at some point in the future then trippleing them in price to make the BPO's worth more - I aim on buying a few of them in the future.
I've only ever seen MP and Akita get more blatant than that.
Bravo sir.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jennifer Meek Yeah, but if you invested all kinds of money into invention only to lose money hand over fist, you wouldn't be happy that you wasted your time.
You obviously don't get it. I would never get caught doing something like that. You are the one who made a poor business choice and now you are paying for it, that is the way it should be.
Anyone who chose to get into Marauder production deserves exactly what they are getting, period. Whining about it serves no purpose. People could either sell their excess stock at a loss and get the heck out of the market or they could hold that stock for months as no one buys it. Cashing out and trying to make up lost money in better markets is the smart move.
If you lost money on Marauders, either invention or manufacturing, I laugh at you. You are the reason others make so much money.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
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Corporati Capitalis
Tollan Technologies
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:38:00 -
[11]
This thread is full with lol.
Also do I sense a bitter T2 BPO owner lurking nearby?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kirjava Well, thats what people get for oversaturating the market.
What means 'get'? Do you blame the peeps for their only possible use of the given gamemechanic?
Originally by: Kirjava It's got to the point where any Tom **** and Harry can start mass production of anything
Hm.. I bet you want be the first to loose his 256k+ skillpoints in production efficiency and his 512k+ SPs in mass production and his 2M+ SPs in advanced mass production and all the other skillpoints related to efficiently run a production biz, so that not every Tom, **** and Harry can start mass production of anything..
Well, that whole situation is what you get for a skillsystem/gamemechanic that misses oblivion and an ageing playerbase - it saturates in EVERY aspect (not only this production stuff and margins).
If you solve this kind of problem, eve will run forever!!
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shadarle You obviously don't get it. I would never get caught doing something like that. You are the one who made a poor business choice and now you are paying for it, that is the way it should be.
I didn't invest a dime in invention, but a lot of people did.
Originally by: Shadarle If you lost money on Marauders, either invention or manufacturing, I laugh at you. You are the reason others make so much money.
I laugh at you. ---
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:46:00 -
[14]
I am being blatant because I have all these ideas all the time, I'm starting with a small IPO first because I don't have the capital for the larger ones. Interestingly there is a person who is wanting to buy Titan BPC at a fixed price as he sells Titan component packages..... mething he smells a proffit And yes, oversaturating the market with marauders, those people deserve it. I planned on going into production myself till I realised that hundreds of people had the same idea and the ships were highly specalised.
~Nyron |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Kirjava Well, thats what people get for oversaturating the market.
What means 'get'? Do you blame the peeps for their only possible use of the given gamemechanic?
I don't blame them. I call them idiots for feeling they HAVE to use a particular game mechanic even if there is no reason to believe it will be profitable. They rolled the dice and are paying for it.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Daeva Vios
PhaseShifter Technologies Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2007.12.16 16:58:00 -
[16]
Now, let's not go too far here.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with speculation. Speculation drives markets and has made many people here incredibly wealthy.
The problem is coming here and whining when you make a poor choice and wind up losing. Every upward trend in any market has a downward trend somewhere down the line. If you have any sense at all you must realize before going into it that there's a chance that you've bet on the wrong horse, and not only will that horse come in last place, it may not even cross the finish line.
Then again, if you had much sense you wouldn't be in here complaining that you'd lost money on Marauders. You'd accept the loss quietly and retain your dignity, then move whatever you had left into more profitable markets.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.16 17:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
Originally by: Kirjava To be quite honest I am looking at buying up the entire supply of ME datacores at some point in the future then trippleing them in price to make the BPO's worth more - I aim on buying a few of them in the future.
I've only ever seen MP and Akita get more blatant than that. Bravo sir.
Brutal honesty sometimes works
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.16 17:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Daeva Vios Now, let's not go too far here.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with speculation. Speculation drives markets and has made many people here incredibly wealthy.
The problem is coming here and whining when you make a poor choice and wind up losing. Every upward trend in any market has a downward trend somewhere down the line. If you have any sense at all you must realize before going into it that there's a chance that you've bet on the wrong horse, and not only will that horse come in last place, it may not even cross the finish line.
Then again, if you had much sense you wouldn't be in here complaining that you'd lost money on Marauders. You'd accept the loss quietly and retain your dignity, then move whatever you had left into more profitable markets.
Yup, agree with everything here.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente Anqara Tech
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:24:00 -
[19]
I'm starting to think that excessivly built marauders will make great christmas presents.
Not quite sure what else to do with them, though. Kinda wishing I had just sold the components instead, as they would have been worth more.
Ah well, live and learn. At least I made a lot on the decryptor speculation.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:26:00 -
[20]
There were plenty of signs this would happen. A couple of months ago I was all excited to get into tech 2 battleship production. I stocked up on some cores, got some ship data interfaces relatively cheap, all that stuff. I worked to build up my own cash so I'd have enough to get in the market. I figured Maruaders would be very popular among mission runners and some others. That still may be true, but what I really saw was all these people saying "yeah I'm getting ready for tech 2 battleship production" on the forums. There were soooo many people saying it that it became apparent the market would quickly become saturated, so I canceled my plans.
I think the lesson of the day is that you need to pay attention to your surroundings. Situational awareness isn't just useful in shooters. Don't just assume things will go the way you think they'll go. I've made that mistake plenty of times before learning my lesson.
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Vadimik
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Vadimik on 16/12/2007 18:40:57 FYI: I'm not whining about any loss. I'm still at profit, to be honest, just not a high as I thought. Plus, I'll obviously have to cancel (or, at least, cut bigtime) my future marauder production plans.
All I want is to try and prevent at least a couple of "inventors" from repeating the same stupid mistake, namely:
selling their stock dirt cheap in the middle of ongoing market crash.
If you want to make money in invention, learn to sacrifice quick sales for the wellfare of the market. Else every time you try to invent, you'll end up deep in the same **it.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vadimik If you want to make money in invention, learn to sacrifice quick sales for the wellfare of the market.
Yeah, if you want to do well in invention sacrifice your own sales so that Vaidimik can unload his stuff at a decent price.
Anyone who cares more about a particular invention market than their own financial wellbeing is a moron. Not selling off your items as you watch them crash lower and lower just so you are not contributing to the crash is pure stupidity. No one else is going to stop unloading their stuff because you do.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Vadimik
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Posted - 2007.12.16 19:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Vadimik If you want to make money in invention, learn to sacrifice quick sales for the wellfare of the market.
Yeah, if you want to do well in invention sacrifice your own sales so that Vaidimik can unload his stuff at a decent price.
Anyone who cares more about a particular invention market than their own financial wellbeing is a moron. Not selling off your items as you watch them crash lower and lower just so you are not contributing to the crash is pure stupidity. No one else is going to stop unloading their stuff because you do.
*sigh*
It's ironic, in fact.
If you don't want to believe me, fine, do whatever you deem fit.
Just don't act all suprised when it turns out I managed to sell my stuff with a much higher profit margin by using the magical virtue of patience.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.12.16 19:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Akita T I'm not quite sure what you mean by "0 profit".
If it's an inventor who just can't sell his blueprint at all since nobody seems to be buying, there is profit to be had in manufacturing and selling at close to no markup. If somebody bought a decent ME blueprint cheap from a clueless inventor, he might be manufacturing it cheaper as you think, so he still makes a profit. Of course, it's safer to assume nowadays that people are stupid and sell for no markup, but you never know... some people might just be smarter as you expect them to be, profiteering on the backs of the others that are stupid.
If you think people are selling for 0 profit, well, you know what to do, don't you ? Buy their stock and relist as whatever markup you deem appropriate. That was ALWAYS the way to deal with "minerals I reprocess from ore I mine are free" people. I fail to see why this shouldn't apply in here too.
exactly.
what akita said.
Originally by: Ricdic Ezoran is a dirty troll. Ezoran has been repoted to mods for trolling on this and many other threads As trolling continues Ezoran will continue to be reported If Ezoran persists then |
Vadimik
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Posted - 2007.12.16 19:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Akita T I'm not quite sure what you mean by "0 profit".
If it's an inventor who just can't sell his blueprint at all since nobody seems to be buying, there is profit to be had in manufacturing and selling at close to no markup. If somebody bought a decent ME blueprint cheap from a clueless inventor, he might be manufacturing it cheaper as you think, so he still makes a profit. Of course, it's safer to assume nowadays that people are stupid and sell for no markup, but you never know... some people might just be smarter as you expect them to be, profiteering on the backs of the others that are stupid.
If you think people are selling for 0 profit, well, you know what to do, don't you ? Buy their stock and relist as whatever markup you deem appropriate. That was ALWAYS the way to deal with "minerals I reprocess from ore I mine are free" people. I fail to see why this shouldn't apply in here too.
exactly.
what akita said.
It's simple.
I don't have free isk to buyout even three "0-profit" marauders, let alone all of them.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.16 19:50:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Shadarle on 16/12/2007 19:50:18
Originally by: Vadimik
*sigh*
It's ironic, in fact.
Not quite sure how it is ironic, perhaps that isn't the word you wanted?
Originally by: Vadimik
If you don't want to believe me, fine, do whatever you deem fit.
Just don't act all suprised when it turns out I managed to sell my stuff with a much higher profit margin by using the magical virtue of patience.
Perhaps you mistakenly think profit margin is the most important thing to strive for when trading. I'll ask you this,
Which is better: Selling at a 5% loss instantly Selling at 2% loss after 2 weeks Selling at a 0% loss after a month Selling at a 5% gain after 2 months
I personally would take the 5% loss instantly so I could get out of the failed market and reinvest my money elsewhere. If you want to to hold 1 billion isk worth of items for an entire month to make 5% then thats your call. But it is probably why you don't have the isk to buy up the marauders that are under cost and I do, only I'm wise enough not to as the prices are going to keep going down.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Vadimik
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Posted - 2007.12.16 20:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Vadimik on 16/12/2007 20:11:45
Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 16/12/2007 19:50:18
Originally by: Vadimik
*sigh*
It's ironic, in fact.
Not quite sure how it is ironic, perhaps that isn't the word you wanted?
Originally by: Vadimik
If you don't want to believe me, fine, do whatever you deem fit.
Just don't act all suprised when it turns out I managed to sell my stuff with a much higher profit margin by using the magical virtue of patience.
Perhaps you mistakenly think profit margin is the most important thing to strive for when trading. I'll ask you this,
Which is better: Selling at a 5% loss instantly Selling at 2% loss after 2 weeks Selling at a 0% loss after a month Selling at a 5% gain after 2 months
I personally would take the 5% loss instantly so I could get out of the failed market and reinvest my money elsewhere. If you want to to hold 1 billion isk worth of items for an entire month to make 5% then thats your call. But it is probably why you don't have the isk to buy up the marauders that are under cost and I do, only I'm wise enough not to as the prices are going to keep going down.
It's ironic in that my attempt at a more stable market for everyone is seen as an attempt for a high price for my own sale only.
5% loss now is better, no doubt. If it's a stand-alone sale. Except... It's not the last time you sell something. And unless we learn to control invention market, we will keep ending up with tiny profits every time a new FOTM invention based item (with possibly good profits) appears.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.16 20:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vadimik we will keep ending up with tiny profits every time a new FOTM invention based item (with possibly good profits) appears.
Exactly. It amazing me how much people will whine and moan about the force of gravity. That's the way it is, nothing you say will change it. Your writing only serves to exercise your finger muscles.
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Vadimik
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Posted - 2007.12.16 20:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Benvie
Originally by: Vadimik we will keep ending up with tiny profits every time a new FOTM invention based item (with possibly good profits) appears.
Exactly. It amazing me how much people will whine and moan about the force of gravity. That's the way it is, nothing you say will change it. Your writing only serves to exercise your finger muscles.
Before invention producers managed to do just that - prevent prices from crashing.
And that's exactly what happens in countless markets irl - companies cut their own sales to prevent market from crashing.
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Ahn Riane
Blue Star Surveying and Mapping Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.16 21:08:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Ahn Riane on 16/12/2007 21:08:33
Originally by: Vadimik
And that's exactly what happens in countless markets irl - companies cut their own sales to prevent market from crashing.
oh wait... guess thats why Milk was out the other day when I wanted to buy some.
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