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Dante Fugazi
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:36:00 -
[1]
I'm pretty new to eve, but after talking to many people in game, and reading the forums a pretty clear picture of 0.0 alliances is starting to come together for me. Stop me if I'm wrong, and please enlighten my ignorance if that is the case. Am I the only one who see's 0.0 alliance as schoolyard bullies, and lying thieves? Sure you can pay not to be podded (dirty and underhanded mob tactics) but the moment one of their pilots get bored, your toast regaurdless of whether you payed their "protection fee" if you can call it that, as it's not protection, just a half promise not to pod you (maybe). It seems the larger the alliance, the more dirty and underhanded they are, claiming entire regions as their property, charging higher "protection" fee's. Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks these guys need to be wiped out. Take "A History of the Fountain Alliance." for example. Where I come from if a schoolyard bully with 6 of his peon buddies says "give me your lunch money" you hand it to him with a big smile and come back with 12 of YOUR friends the next day to take it back in the price of blood. Are there alliances trying to stomp these guys for the sake of doing the right thing? or is it just other bullies trying to take over so they can be the new bully?
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Darken Two
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:42:00 -
[2]
Almost no alliances charge you to enter their space. Most of them flat out refuse entry to neutrals.
The ones that do charge, charge a fee for other alliances and corps to use the resources in teh area they have claimed and protect. This means protecting the space, not their renters.
Allainces claim large areas of space mainly because they want abundant resorces to make money and less choke points. It is actaully easier to defend a region than a constellation in most cases. This is because while a constellation might have 10 entry points into it, any region will probably only have between 3 and 5 entry points making it easier to defend.
Alliances are more about making money and fighting and less about greed and bullying.
Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
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Chucky
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.16 21:59:00 -
[3]
0.0 blows since the new sovereignty rules, only very large alliances have the recourses to take and hold regions. Only 0.0 has the resources to build a very large alliance.
Much like life the rich get richer and the poor get screwed.
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.18 02:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 18/12/2007 02:12:22
In EVE might is right. EVE is also not real life, so while in real life you feel that anyone who uses their might to justify their right needs to be "wiped out" in EVE which is a computer game where our characters don't die, experience pain, hunger, disease, and don't have families the moral principles of real life are not applicable. If you control territory in EVE this gives you the right to do whatever you please in this territory. But if you're role playing of course you can make your character have a goal to fight against this.
Some 0.0 alliances (not all) accept renters which means they allow corporations and smaller alliances to live in their territory and use its resources while charging rent. There are many other alliances that feel this is the wrong approach and instead if you want to have access to their resource you'd be forced to join them and pass their recruitment screenings. There are benefits and drawbacks to both systems of alliance management.
If you want to find a group fighting against this kind of behavior I think the closest would be Star Fraction, but they are not exactly fighting against 0.0 bullies in particular - just read their recruitment post to get a sense of if that's what you had in mind.
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Final Requiem
Gallente White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.18 05:13:00 -
[5]
most alliances flat out pod you in 0.0, they wont ransom, usually wont even say a word, if you're not blue, they'll shoot you simple as that. everything you've described is LOW SEC PIRATES, not 0.0. low sec pirates are the ones who gate camp and ransom people, the ones who charge frees to fly though "their systems".
(insert epic sounding "failure" from SSB) __________ [-WSI-] "In the name of God, impure souls of the living deal shall be banished into eternal damnation. AMEN." |
azura nester
White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.18 05:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Chucky 0.0 blows since the new sovereignty rules, only very large alliances have the recourses to take and hold regions. Only 0.0 has the resources to build a very large alliance.
Much like life the rich get richer and the poor get screwed.
nah, 0.0 just blows because you got ****** out space when BoB dident came to your rescue. 0.0 alliances dont charge for entry, we just kill neutrals that come into our space. bullys? i think not, we dont pay attention to low sec all that much
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A'lina
101 Industries space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.12.18 07:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chucky 0.0 blows since the new sovereignty rules, only very large alliances have the recourses to take and hold regions. Only 0.0 has the resources to build a very large alliance.
Much like life the rich get richer and the poor get screwed.
i think its kinda like that. as small entity traing to move to 0.0 you can NEARLY ONLY do it as renter. besides the logistic and towers + guns + guns + guns....(expensive)... to keep them against your old sitting enemys in 0.0 you take space from you also need a decent sized fleet *and everyone need to be able to take some losses* aswell as a decent sized capital fleet *yes the 1b+ shiponly junk...* since you can be sure to see a capital blob on your towers as soon as the spaceholder can field them.
this rule only dont applys to entitys that didnt got the time to "build up" far enough in 0.0. taking a picture from north with much smaller entitys who where "just in place" and seeing how tri *sorry for taking you in concern again lol* just steamrolled them because they had the capfleet and towers while the others couldnt match them in this case
also seeing that a... well from all sides pushed down and less respected alliance like kos, which merely fields what... 50?! pilots maybe 100 could hold their space against multiple attacker and taking in concern that they got time to build up kinda makes it a little obvious that its all about ressources.
just try to tell me now how "empire adventurer" that spend a decent time on their missions and having to group up to increase their isk/time ratio or "lowsec adventurer" that maybe find 1 or 2 good complexes...maybe mining little better ore...or having 1-2 times a month a good factionspawn can keep up or ever reach 0.0 entitys?
0.0 citisens that have 800-1.850.000 isk rats right outside their station? like what? 5min work for a tripple 1,85m spawn? compared to any mission or the battlecruiser in lowsec this is just uber. than seeing items like x-type... only droped in highrate complexes ONLY able to be found in 0.0 next to the massive bounty in these complexes which is guarantee all 4h and the items having incredible prices to easy finance even more towers and capital ships its really only feeding the rich.
since the only secure way to run them properly is being sure no one easy disturbs you and being able to move with a decent sized gang there unspotted or unbothered.... in other words its your space and you have intel on who is where or maybe inbound that you know when its better to bail.
also seeing how much groups fight over npc 0.0 should also wake some people up. i mean it cant really be that like 5-6 different alliances hit each other on a daily basis in regions like syndicate *probably more*/great wildlands while other 0.0 space is nearly free to conquer *see fountain*.
the reason people dont take this is because THEY KNOW that they didnt got the assets to fight a capital blob. each tower loss would mean a lot to these alliances and the new ways of constelation sovereighnity just made it worse to conquer, conquerable 0.0 from entitys that have taken it long time ago.
without geting in place of a really weak / new faction just shortly moved to 0.0, or a renter that gets wiped out by a larger faction, or a faction that stumbles from internal problems there is nearly no way to take this space.
just my 2 cents of spending my life in different allys / corps of eve *see my employment*. not representing my corp blablabla....
but in fact as chucky said: the rich get richer and the poor get screwed
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Dante Fugazi
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:38:00 -
[8]
Eve is FULL of ore, minerals, gas clouds, etc. that can ONLY be accessed in 0.0... So anyone who is new to the game, by default is screwed out of ALL of this. I'm supposed to build my own 2000 man alliance and go to war with all of the older alliances, to get any of this? Or am I supposed to wait til I have the "minimum skill points required" to join them? Or better yet, for the invite only ones, I'm supposed to pull off the social engineering feat of the century and get myself accepted? Or is it that I'm supposed to just forget the whole idea, and stay in empire forever?
Before anyone starts flaming me saying "noobs dont belong in 0.0" blah blah Everyone was once new, and even a player that has been in eve for a year or more, stands NO chance of fighting these guys without a HUGE alliance at their back. So that again raises my above questions.
I know the next flame after that one will be "Just pay for access" WHY??? To be podded by their bored pilots, or the pirates who infultrate that territory? It seems to me that it's a flaw in the game mechanics, and a mistake which the outcome was never fully thought out by CCP. New players already get the "S**t end of the stick" all the way around. I guess until CCP decides to even the playing field somehow, all us "noobs" are supposed to sit in empire.
And just for the fun of it, I'll answer flame #3 before it's even typed sure sure they're just defending "their" territory... I guess the rest of us are paying the same ammount to play, so that we can be screwed out of the better resources of the game.
Could you imagine the sheer volume of kleenex that would be consumed by these same alliances who are the "owners" of 0.0 if the jovian's one day claimed all of 0.0 as THEIRS, podded everyone in 0.0 and started charging access, and still podded people at random when they got bored? Maybe thats what's needed, a world class smackdown to put some of the more pompous and arrogant alliances in their places.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that larger alliances work as a larger unit to defend sections of space, I just don't think It's right that anyone should be able to "own" a system, if there are resources that can ONLY be found there. I also think most of these guys have forgotten what it's like to be a new player.
And just for the record, I can't remember the guy's name but I read a post stating something along the lines of "and if you are a new player you have no right to post in these forums." Oh gosh, I guess only the "leet uber" players that have been here forever have the "right" to post, and go to 0.0 and access all the benefits of 0.0, excuse me for helping to pay for your new expansion you arrogant P***k!
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CTec
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:42:00 -
[9]
Like in all things, If a person wants to have the experience and skill set to do 0.0 space. He/she will need to "do the time," meaning, be apart of some large organization and learn the ropes. Build your personal wealth up and train for the day you because able to move forward in your wants for gameplay. RL requires apprentice experience and this game is similar in that respect. I have no illusion that my little 4 player corp can make a home in 0.0 and hold it, that would be silly. It has been stated many times there are no safe zones. Brutality and aggression are required in order to hold you own little piece of the sand box. If a person can not see that is how the game it played and cannot bring accept he needs to bend and adapt. They may need to find other things to occupy their time.
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The Comatorium
The Ghazi
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Posted - 2007.12.18 18:31:00 -
[10]
Ain't War hell? ------------------------- Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, For you never know wich one will strike you in the back. |
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OOOSOOO
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.18 19:30:00 -
[11]
Fit a cloak?
*hiccup* |
Nocturnal Avenger
The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.12.18 20:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dante Fugazi Or better yet, for the invite only ones, I'm supposed to pull off the social engineering feat of the century and get myself accepted?
Hardly.
Some 0.0 alliances are easy to join - others are not.
Of course - as in real life, those who accept very young players have little to lose and vice versa.
But - by all means - get your butt to 0.0 and learn to pvp. This is where the real fun starts :)
- Carebear Pirate - |
Ungdall
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.19 02:49:00 -
[13]
There are plenty of easy to enter 0.0 alliances. Even the "exclusive" ones are simple to get into if you just target one of the outlying membership pools.
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sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.19 05:38:00 -
[14]
yes they are nothing but big bullies
Join The Fight With Promo Today View The North Star! |
Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.19 07:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dante Fugazi Eve is FULL of ore, minerals, gas clouds, etc. that can ONLY be accessed in 0.0... So anyone who is new to the game, by default is screwed out of ALL of this. I'm supposed to build my own 2000 man alliance and go to war with all of the older alliances, to get any of this? Or am I supposed to wait til I have the "minimum skill points required" to join them?
I think you got the wrong perception of 0.0 alliances. You're probably thinking they are full of 20+ mil sp players who have all been playing for years if not since beta and unless you're on the same level with them, are a cap ship pilot and a pro pvper they aren't going to take you so for years you're going to be shunned from 0.0 access. I've lived in 0.0 and I know how it goes and if you're thinking the above you're wrong.
Some of these alliance will accept practically anybody. The go for the numbers and prefer to have a lot of active players. When I was a noob i got into a 0.0 alliance just a bit shy of three million skill points. It wasn't the best alliance in the game, but hey, you don't get the very best stuff at the beginning of the game otherwise there would be no point in playing it. There were battleship rats and plexes and all the other high income stuff. And this 0.0 alliance shared all of it with me, a 3 mil sp noob who couldn't even fly a battleship or anything tech II and knew nothing of fleet warfare.
You're painting a pretty grim picture of the game when I don't think you quite know what you're talking about. If your issues is that you can't be your own master in 0.0, either have to pay someone or join someone else, well that's because 0.0 space is something that requires teamwork, playing with other people. If you want to be your own boss you are indeed supposed to raise your own corporation and either fight for the space or apply to join an existing 0.0 alliance, basically you have to earn it. Nevertheless it is extremely easy. I've seen really crappy corporations with crappy leadership and noob players get into 0.0 and survive there for many months. And if they can do it, why can't you?
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.19 12:39:00 -
[16]
I tend to think of 0.0 like an out of control inner city and the alliances like gangs. The politics seem about the same. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.19 23:20:00 -
[17]
Watch the recruitment forums for open recruitments. Train yourself. Eventually the requirements of a 0.0 alliance and your skills will meet and you're in.
It took me a year to jump ship from my empire corp to a 0.0 alliance corp, and it wasn't all that painful. I made contact, listened to the pitch, and I haven't walked into their organization like they owe me anything, and its been frickin' incredible to be a part of the bigger picture.
Even if you get into a small alliance that holds only one or two systems, it makes you feet wet into the big show and it starts building your history beyond the CONCORD guns. Prove yourself at least capable of hanging in the game and you can move up when the time comes.
As an empire based corporation, its more difficult to break into a 0.0 alliance, unless you're willing to risk getting burned to meet the people who might be willing to deal with you. You're going to have to learn to swim and learn to play at their level and earn their respect, and that sometimes means you're going to have to be willing to forgive alliances that blast you from time to time in order to move up.
You cannot take 0.0 personally, you just have to acknowledge your place in the pecking order and make opportunities happen. So be ready to make a lot of guest appearances on various alliance killboards and be ready to move quick to take advantage. Otherwise, enjoy being a carebear.
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Mizerik
Grettistak
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Posted - 2007.12.20 02:22:00 -
[18]
For the smaller alliances or even single corps, the best place to get your feet wet in 0.0 is NPC regions where you can't claim Sov. There is less incentive for someone to come kill your POS's while learning basics of 0.0 life. Just because your in NPC space doesn't mean your safe, form a war pact with other locals for mutual defense, make deals with large alliances to claim some small part of space (for a price) and get fat and rich off the loot and salvage from the inevitable 5 man HAC gang that passes through.
In all the alliances my corp was ever in, I don't ever remember charing for renters... We just gave them the Pod Express home. If they were good fighters we would even invite them to join us :)
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Thenotborg
Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.20 11:05:00 -
[19]
Don't get me wrong but maybe Eve just isn't your game. When I was a noob I have written down names of my first killers to revenge later. But I never did because I understood that Eve is a very though game and that I was killed just because of my own mistakes. And I killed many others by now and I'm sure some of them hate me for that. And all of this give Eve its edge.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.20 23:08:00 -
[20]
You've got a one-sided view of 0.0 alliances.
Ever buy all the POS gear needed? Fuel towers for years? Scanned 100's of moons? Build your own outposts? Fight off people wanting to take it from you? Kill off people who are weak defenders? Try to keep PVP'rs and Industrialists happy? Provide ships, ammo and gear for your members? Do all the logistic work to keep it running? Deal with Spies and Thieves? Had to put down a out-of-control CEO? Be called upon to defend a neighbor? Tried to negoatiate standings so you can get to empire safely? Tried to negoatiate standings so you can kill someone's freind that's slighted you?
The alliances have rules cuz they are ultimately the ones who make it all work. If you don't want to join one, you're free to create your own alliance and try to take space from them. If you expect some sort of free pass without any affilliation with my alliance, expect to be hunted and podded. Cuz while we want active members, we don't want freeloaders.
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Chereadenine Zakalwe
VENOM72 Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.21 03:12:00 -
[21]
My alliance and out neighbors CVA operate a NRDS policy,so pirates aside..your pretty much free to come and go.. Though you will have problems if you fly around with a npc corp pilot with no history..spies/scouts are shot on site
Fancy a change of scenery? [/url] ô您 |
Jinn AsaniQui
Amarr Svea Rike Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.21 05:07:00 -
[22]
It's simple really... Either you have power and welth, or you dont. There is no middleground in EVE, (atleast thats my opinion).
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Big Socks
Amarr Intersolar Research
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Posted - 2007.12.21 13:46:00 -
[23]
Yawn yawn, why do people after just joining this game feel they are entitilted, nah, must have access to 0.0, fly the biggest ships and not get podded ever! why dont u do what most of the great allainces have done, learn to fly, learn the tactics and what your ship has to offer, start your own corp, get experiance with that, learn the role playing side and get to know Eve better! then grow, gain more members, teach them your ways and begin to move to more dangerous space and then the world is your oyster!
Please dont moan and complain withing a week of playing the game.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2007.12.22 11:17:00 -
[24]
Normally I'd say move to high traffic low sec/npc 0.0 asap and don't look back, but with your attitude you probably should stay in empire forever since you'll never make it anywhere.
However if you feel like coming down off of that cross you're on, wake up and realize it's a pvp game, and you should learn how to fight if you want to accomplish anything on your own, then you'll realize how wrong each and every one of your misconceptions actually are. Otherwise, since it seems like the thought of combat intimidates you, just join one of the blobbers and mooch off of their sovereign space. Judging from your posts You'd fit right in, just look at the top 10 alliances by member count, pick one, then app one of the weak link corps in it. It will usually be one with the most members (takes anyone), or the least (desperate for members).
Or you could join Ivy League, just shut your mouth and open your mind and let them show you how ignorant your claims really are.
Or you can move out to NPC 0.0, join a pvp corp and fight non-stop against players instead of POSes and lag.
Quote: Before anyone starts flaming me saying "noobs dont belong in 0.0" blah blah Everyone was once new, and even a player that has been in eve for a year or more, stands NO chance of fighting these guys without a HUGE alliance at their back. So that again raises my above questions.
lulz tell that to our 1 month old recruits who solo gank 2 year vets in carebear alliances filled with people like you who thought they needed to "wait" to enter 0.0.
Quote: I know the next flame after that one will be "Just pay for access" WHY??? To be podded by their bored pilots, or the pirates who infultrate that territory? It seems to me that it's a flaw in the game mechanics, and a mistake which the outcome was never fully thought out by CCP. New players already get the "S**t end of the stick" all the way around. I guess until CCP decides to even the playing field somehow, all us "noobs" are supposed to sit in empire.
The only people who pay for access are whiners like you. The only flaw I see is in your warped perspective and false sense of entitlement. Go back to WoW dude.
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ranna sleeper
White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.23 10:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: ranna sleeper on 23/12/2007 10:24:17 a) you can be in 0.0 w/o having to be a mega alliance, most of them rent out tons of space and given how easy it is to make isk out there, any corp that isn't just 60 alts and 9 actual people should be able to more then pay for most reasonable renters fee's.
b) not all the mega alliances only take in high sp players. take goon for example, they've got probably one of the best newbie friendly alliances in the game, heck most of the goon recruits are brand new characters. the ones that do require high sp are usually supported by low sp corps or alliances w/ a few exception simply because it's a lot easier to talk someone w/ 2mil sp into bump spamming a titan then it is to talk a dred pilot into.
c) yes, there are ores and what not in 0.0 that you cant find in empire, however any corp w/ even a half decent leader knows how to make due with what you have. you may not be able to get the high ends but you can still mine more of the low ends and sell them to buy the high ends, it's called an economy, what a wondrous thing it is.
d) even if a, b, or c don't get through your skull, there's always the fact not every 0.0 system is taken up by mega alliances, or any alliances for that matter. it's not hard to find uncolonized space, just contact the diplo to w/e alliance is around there and ask them if you can move in to it, chances are they'll say yes. while i do admit they're usually not the best systems, it still gets you access to w/e you may need, but then again this option would require someone who knows how to have a informed, intelligent talk.
e) it's close minded players like yourself that give some of us a bad rep. i moved out to 0.0 when my char wasnt even 2 months old, and you know what i've lost out there, nothing. why, because it's not who's got the bigger guns or who's got the most skill points, 0.0 is all about numbers. one noob may not be able to stand up to a hac gang, one noob may not be able to take gank the enemy, but you take that one noob, add 5 more, and throw in just 1 person with combat experiance, and chances are your little gang of 7 will atleast ruin someone's day. you all may lose a ship just to take down 1 or 2 of them, but when your ship cost 10mil and the enemy's ship cost 100, who do you think really is the one who lost there.
f) ah f, the last and simplest of point. if all else fails, simply cancel your subscription to eve and go play WoW, I've herd there's a lot of small children on that game for you to spend hours and hours fighting with using that astounding 3rd grade logic.
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Xorth Adimus
Caldari Zero Divide The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.12.23 12:42:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Xorth Adimus on 23/12/2007 12:43:17 It may comfort you to know the grass isnt always greener. There are many huge alliances out there that fight over pos's and the best regions to claim as a home. Unfortunatly this involves getting blown up allot for reasons beyond your control, blobs, lag, politics, stupid taxes and a pretty much complete loss of independance.
Allot of people like this, allot of others hate these downsides.
It sounds like you have probably ran into these other people allot! They find regions for fun 0.0 gang pvp or live as low sec pirates and are completely independent.
Whatever you fly outside of empire is very likely to die unless you know what your doing or have friends, if you are neutral you will be shot on sight by anyone for fun or as a potential spy or pirate or out of boredom. This said, many areas of 0.0 are pretty empty most of the time and when they get busy thats when the fun and the game really starts!
This game is all about people working together get out there explore and learn. Get to know your enemies and friends! Low sec and nearby 0.0 is where most of the fun can be found and with the right friends you can be very successful. I am sure you will find many people with the same problems and goals as you!
Alternativly you can join some of the other (less huge)PVP based alliances and not lose any independance and at the same time pool your resources for pvp and fun. You also get some good experience and trustworthy friends in the process, which is all anyone could want!
<a href="http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/Xorthadimus/?action=view¤t=XORTHSIG.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/Xorthadimus/XORTHSIG.jpg" border="0" |
MassonA
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.23 17:32:00 -
[27]
If you want a shot at 0.0, try an NPC region first, best to do it with a corp though, or you will find it incredibly difficult as other corps and alliances live in NPC space.
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Zen Krane
Caldari Legacy State Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.12.24 03:33:00 -
[28]
you have to pay your dues just like anyone else who played this game. we are not bullies, we tried skills, joined a corporation and then joined an alliance or made our own alliance. there are no free lunches in eve or real life.
with that said, yes there are some arrogant alliances out there. stay away and join a respectable one.
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Bunny McHauler
Dawn of Chaos
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Posted - 2007.12.24 11:26:00 -
[29]
Don't seem to be bullies to me.
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Xyntis
Night-Vision SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.24 17:00:00 -
[30]
Yeah, I can see where you think they are bullies, but you have to realize most of them have worked very hard to get where they are, and to have just any old random person stroll into someones space that they worked very hard to conquer and for them to expect that they do not have to do anything to get into that space, they should think twice. ______
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
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