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Vinni
Caldari All Sales Are Final
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Posted - 2007.12.30 18:00:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Vihravend
Originally by: Vinni Not to be terse, but I didn't say a modulated mining stripper II.
Fair enough..
1 x Modulated Strip Miner II = 542.2m3/min with projected skills -- 486.07m3/m currently 1 x Strip Miner I = 500.69m3/min with projected skills -- 448.68m3/m currently Not a huge difference.
5 x Mining Drone II = 373.6m3/min with projected skills -- 336.26m3/m currently
5 x Basic Miners = 373.90m3/m with current skills.. and there are ships that can fit this easily.
How'd you come to the same mining amount for these drones?
Mining Amount/Speed Civ -> 10m3 / 300m/s MD1 -> 15m3 / 400m/s MD2 -> 25m3 / 500m/s Hrv -> 30m3 / 250m/s
So... as you can see, the mining drone II is a really good drone compared to the others in the list.
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Commander 598
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.30 18:01:00 -
[32]
To be fair, I would say that mining drones are a bit pointless in ANY setting unless your "miner" is essentially a floating factory and your drones are the size of frigates or fighters.
Thinking such a tiny thing could realistically have the power/cpu/size to mount something even remotely comparable to a dedicated and large ship's resource taxing strip miner is asking a bit much.
Tiny mining drones are just a flawed concept from the start...
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Vihravend
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.30 18:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vinni How'd you come to the same mining amount for these drones?
Mining Amount/Speed Civ -> 10m3 / 300m/s MD1 -> 15m3 / 400m/s MD2 -> 25m3 / 500m/s Hrv -> 30m3 / 250m/s
So... as you can see, the mining drone II is a really good drone compared to the others in the list.
You're right, and you're wrong. You're right in that yes, a Mining Drone 2 is better than a mining drone 1. You're wrong in thinking that this additional nugget of speed means anything..
Firstly, even a light scout drone can go 3500m/s and up.. So don't be too impressed with 500m/s. Even the big heavy fighter drones used by carriers go 2000m/2..
Secondly, there is no way to accurately calculate a mining drones mining amount when you take into account it's travel time. So I give it the best possible travel time, and assume ZERO travel time.
All my numbers above assume the drone is instantly at the rock, then instantly delivering the rock to the ship at the end of the cycle..
Originally by: Vinni the mining drone II is a really good drone compared to the others in the list.
Sure.. the mining drone II is great.. compared to other mining drones. Now compare it to a basic miner, the first mining laser we get and the worst possible mining laser in the game.
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CCP -- Fix Mining Drones!
In SAK 3+ years and counting |
Vihravend
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.30 18:40:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Commander 598 To be fair, I would say that mining drones are a bit pointless in ANY setting unless your "miner" is essentially a floating factory and your drones are the size of frigates or fighters.
Thinking such a tiny thing could realistically have the power/cpu/size to mount something even remotely comparable to a dedicated and large ship's resource taxing strip miner is asking a bit much.
Tiny mining drones are just a flawed concept from the start...
Well, lets not try to drag "reality" into it.. But maybe you're right! I mean maybe the right way to get better mining drones would be to get some large fighter sized drones that require a completely new mining platform. No strips.. just giant mining drone "fighters" that do the mining for you.. Maybe the new ship can fit a couple turrets or missile launchers for defense (just as a hulk relies on drones for defense and uses strips to mine, this new ship would work the other way around..)
I still say its telling that no one uses mining drones.. it kind of says that there is something wrong.. sorta seems like a clue.. ---
CCP -- Fix Mining Drones!
In SAK 3+ years and counting |
slabby
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Posted - 2007.12.30 18:43:00 -
[35]
before the mining drone II came into the game there were a lot more of drones on market, but not buyable. i believe the biggest one was far better then the harvesters. but for some strange reason ccp chose not to actually implement those...
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Vihravend
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.30 18:45:00 -
[36]
Originally by: slabby before the mining drone II came into the game there were a lot more of drones on market, but not buyable. i believe the biggest one was far better then the harvesters. but for some strange reason ccp chose not to actually implement those...
You're not the first person to say that... I don't remember anything better than the harvester.. I wish I did.. and I wish I had their stats.. it'd be interesting to see the differences.. ---
CCP -- Fix Mining Drones!
In SAK 3+ years and counting |
slabby
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Posted - 2007.12.30 19:00:00 -
[37]
if you've been playing for a while you sort of remember all kinds of stuff, like belts respawning everyday.. and offcourse the mining drones that resembled the implants mining drone - standard/improved etc...
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Vihravend
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.30 19:06:00 -
[38]
Maybe its time they revist some of that stuff.. ---
CCP -- Fix Mining Drones!
In SAK 3+ years and counting |
OzDeaDMeaT
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Posted - 2008.01.04 02:16:00 -
[39]
The majority of mining ops ive been on atleast 1 person has attack drones out for protecting the fleet. If everyone else 10+ members of the fleet where to put 5 mining drones out each u would have 50+ drones in space. I have a quadcore 6700 with an 8800 GTX and a 20mb internet connection, it lags like a ***** after about 30 drones and thats with the graphics all turned off. They are great little things for solo and starting out characters. I wouldnt recommend them for mining ops because if im lagging the majority of my corp mates will definately be lagging.
Get CCP to reduce the lag associated with Drones first then maybe mining drones will be used more often.
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Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.04 06:33:00 -
[40]
I think something you are also missing is that the mining drones were around LONG before barges and strip miners. There didn't used to BE dedicated mining ships, so ships that could't mine well with the lasers, probably had a drone bay to mine with. Comparatively, the mining drone ii's and the miner ii's are very comperable... What is missing I guess is a heavy mining drone to be in the leage with the strip miners, but I think something the size and power output of a strip would reqiure something MUCH larger than a drone... y'know.. something like the size of a barge or something... :-)
Mining drones are a nice edge onto the barge/exhumers, but I think I have actually lost more mining drone ii's than the ore I've brought in with them is worth. Just oo fragile, and requires too much attention for my average mining op.
Prospector Class |
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ZerKar
Caldari Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2008.01.04 07:38:00 -
[41]
*shrugs* Me and my friends use them. A little more Ore, what's the harm? They could be a little more potent but that is about it. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...!
O.o |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.01.04 11:05:00 -
[42]
I would just like to remind some people who say 'there were no dedicated mining ships before barges' that few ships exist : -Mining frigates : good at nothing else, astrometrics frigates (like the imicus) has more cargohold. -Mining cruisers : Osprey, Scythe, but you know, there are four races, and the two other races got the vexor and arbitrator with mining drone bonus. Sure, no one would use an arbitrator to mine, it has only 2 turret hardpoints.
So, half the mining cruisers are drone based, one is totally crap because it has not the needed turrets (pre-nerfed amarr ship again).
The drones have not a mining drone upgrade like lasers, they have a rig (using CPU) which just reduces your CPU making sure you won't use too many mining lasers or mining upgrades...
Now, no more harvesters, but IMHO, they were too slow to be good.
The skill cost of using a vexor as well as an osprey is just too high, it should be rewarded with better mining drones or better drone yield bonus! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Father Dibbles
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Posted - 2008.01.05 15:24:00 -
[43]
To begin with, I agree with the OP and all of his defending arguments against some pretty annoying points, and thanks for raising this up. The key issue here is that they are NOT under any circumstances worth the intensive SP required for good efficiency, considering the variety of mining drone currently availible. Fair enough if Mining Drone Operation V gave you access to T2 Med/Heavy Versions, fair enough if the current choices had a combined HP of more than 2.
I have recently started mining as an additional way to enjoy the game, and do it in a Megathron /w 7 Miner II's; I do use Mining Drones, because it adds to the experience and obviously, I'm getting that little bit extra out of my time. However, I only use MD 1's, and will continute to do so, because I simply do not see the point in wasting time getting a very minor upgrade (as the calculations in this thread have proven). At any one time I have over twenty mining drones in my hold, because it has been so frustrating taking your eye off things for a second then coming back to 3 dead drones. I dread to think what this must be like with the more expensive T2 versions.
What saddens me most, is that someone in this community has put up so much time and effort contributing to the development of this game, but it simply goes unnoticed by developers who apparently know whats best, and focus on arbitrary things like graphics. Even a comment or acknowledgement of the effort gone into this thread would be something, but this kind of thing really leaves me feeling sad. Fair enough this is not a crucial 'OMG THIS GAME WILL FAIL UNLESS IT HAPPENS' thing, but offering up suggestions and solutions to an issue that quite frankly DOES need looking at it and having it go unnoticed is disgusting, and leaves me feeling like part of a cattle herd.
Vihravend, I salute you, and /signed.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.09 07:54:00 -
[44]
I see a couple of ideas that might help here. First, there are skill and equipment bonuses that apply to mining lasers, but not to mining drones. Some of these seem valid to applied to both. Astrogeology and mining foreman skills should IMHO apply to mining drones. And I agree that the mining director command modules should apply at least in part (that is, the link that shortens cycle time seems relevant).
Second, why not have a skill that allows one to control more mining drones perhaps something like a carrier? I imagine this would be fitted on the Rorqual FWIW.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2008.01.09 08:17:00 -
[45]
Firstly, I'll admit I haven't touched an asteroid in over a year. However, isn't the Harvester the most efficient mining drone and not the T2 one? They're slower, but they return a base of 30m3 compared to 25m3 per yield, which using your own figures of 55m3 per T2 drone would mean ~66m3 per drone per one minute cycle, multipled by five which would mean 19,800 yield per hour.
No?
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Typheonic
Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2008.01.09 15:39:00 -
[46]
Greetings,
Vihravend, I think you're drawing the wrong comparison when you stack T2 mining drones next to a T1 strip miner. I would think a more realistic comparison would be with a T2 mining laser. Strip miners are in a class by themselves, designed to be fit exclusively to barges and exhumers. The mining drones and mining lasers are more universal being usable by any ship.
Once you make the above comparison mining drones don't loose out nearly as bad in comparison. When used by a ship with bonuses to their use (Vexor and Arbitrator) their output is vastly improved keeping in line with cruisers that have mining laser bonuses.
All that being said mining drones would be more useful if they had more hit points and shields. A faster movement speed would be useful as well. An argument could also be made to lower the prerequisite skills for T2 mining drones given the class they seem to fall in based on their output. In general I use mining drones whenever I can, but as others have said their fragile nature makes them high maintenance and requires a lot of micromanagement.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.01.09 16:23:00 -
[47]
@Cedric :
The harvesters blueprints were removed (it's what I have been told) and now if you can buy some, it's only those remaining from the ones produces before the blueprints disappear. They are also very slow which makes them very annoying to use and easy to loose.
If the mining drones had a shield... It would be a good start. Currently, they have 1 point of armor and like 20 points of structure (data I remember from the repairships screen). -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
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