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DrSeuss
Gallente Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.21 07:18:00 -
[31]
Nice to see ya back DC
Originally by: DigitalCommunist It lets you grind down those bad decisions you made as a newb (or playing the FOTM game) to zero.
Chasing the 'nerf-bat' has always been a risky deal. I hate when a patch messes up a training path, but still don't like the idea of points redistribution. On the other hand, if/when they rewrite an entire skill group, like when they did EW, I would be in favor of shuffling points around within that skill group. .
Everyone knows the only true wisdom is on T-Shirts |
Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar Storm Legion THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.21 07:24:00 -
[32]
imo, the only reason respec is ever needed is when you have a finite amount of skill points. If I recall, World of Warcraft has something similar, and allows respec. It's a good idea for WoW because you're locked in, in EVE you're not stuck, you can always train something else.
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Frozen Fallout
Gallente Firing Squad Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.12.21 07:31:00 -
[33]
You do present some interesting ideas but I personal feel that at this point in the game they need to work on a few things before adding something like this as what you are asking for would take a good amount of time and planning to introduce if they don't already have a plan for it.
I would really like the idea of walking in stations to be come reality and maybe even walking on planets and improved graphics for planets and combat effects.
But more important then even that I would love to see a major server improvement in regards to lag for large fleets. However with upgrade to my own computer and hopefully improvements on CCPs side of the server it wont be a problem for long.
So what you are asking for I don't this as unrealistic but just going to be a project that would take well over a year to roll out and would need major beta testing before it was allowed into the hands of the masses to manipulated and tweak out. And adding to the fact that there is allot left to grow not only in graphics but in the size of the Galaxy it self :) *Crosses fingers*
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Lardarz B'stard
Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.12.21 07:32:00 -
[34]
Nice points, mostly. Disagree with one: What you suggest with the skillpoint swapping means you could buy characters and drain the SP off, creating an eleventy-billion SP char in no time. Which is surely hax.
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ER0X
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.21 07:45:00 -
[35]
Hey Digi! ItÆs good to see some of the old strong posters back and contributing again. Some one already said in this thread that some of your ideas are vague. Well heÆs correct they are vague but I kind of thought that was the point tbh.
Hoist the flag up the pole see who salutes it. O7
The changes youÆre suggesting are a good starting point for discussion and would need a fair bit of fleshing out before any agreements could be reached.
Before I contribute to the openness of the topic I would like to comment on one particular aspect of your post namely the API section.
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
CCP should use their own API backend to code a feature into the application process. If requested, the corp recruiting said character would see who the other two characters on that account are. Therefore the end result is: it doesnÆt stop spying, it doesnÆt help it, doesnÆt hinder it.
I think youÆre correct in the assumption that it wonÆt stop spying and that it doesnÆt necessarily help it either. However I think you havenÆt fully grasped the depth or potential for this to impact on the game.
If this were implemented a corporation would have the ability to catch a stupid spy. So yeah from the spyÆs perspective it hindered it. There is another interesting aspect that would also be impacted upon by the use of the API for this type of functionality.
Lets say an old Beta char for example made up a couple of alts back in the day, couple of months after launch, when none of this stuff was avail but just happened to have them in the spare char slots of his main who is now quite a leading player in a major corp/alliance say. HeÆs been using the alts intermittently to infiltrate other corps alliances rising to the upper levels of command obviously to gain Intel.
This is where the problems arise in such a system. Lets say the corp/alliance his main is a member of has been compromised also by a clever untraceable spy now in a prominent leadership role. The spy can check the results of the API search on this char or any other member for that matter finding his implanted chars in other corps/alliances. Obviously these sleepers need to be hidden and therefore this would be an absolute catastrophe in terms of his spy network. The whole spy network would be compromised, not something that would not hinder the spy game.
My own personal opinions on spies CCP should do nothing with APIÆs or any other coding to help corps find spies. ItÆs a pain realising you have one or more in your corp/alliance but they are a necessary part of the game that create game content and therefore should be allowed to operate forcing corps/alliances to use techniques to find embedded spies. This isnÆt æhello kitty onlineÆ remember?
Originally by: Omber Zombie
Personally I'd rather see a new set of learning skills that allow you to buff one attribute for another (i.e. Boost Perception by 1 at a loss of Intelligence of 1), which would allow people to specialize somewhat in a way that doesn't instantly give them new skills, but allows them to train new/existing skills faster if that's the area they want to specialise in.
I like OZÆs thoughts on this tbh but I donÆt like the idea of a skill trainer for it because once its trained your basically stuck with it. I do however like the idea that Digi was talking about with the DNA mutator. I see it acting like an attribute or hardwire plug in that you can change or like a drug thatÆs injected and lasts 1 month or so. Possibly even a slow release implanted capsule that dissolves over a set period depending on the strength.
Again IÆve been rather vague in contributing to some of these ideas but it is intentional for discussions sake.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.12.21 07:53:00 -
[36]
I like decisions having consequences, so I like that I cannot untrain skills I have wasted time on.
I hear Hello Kitty Online has some nice respeccing options in their skill system ;p
Quote: Well, one thing I found these forums lacked (while pervertedly stalking and lurking from the shadows) were more posts on game balance/design that didn't have to do with ships and combat.
Truth. -
DesuSigs |
Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2007.12.21 08:45:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Estephania on 21/12/2007 08:51:08 Several interesting points. Unlikely they'll ever make the way into the game.
Respeccing: wouldn't Amarr race lose like 70% of all its pilots if this would be introduced I mean, who would stay specced in Amarr ships except die hard role players? It also could be nice to move points from where you are "overspecced" to some area you want to try out without buying a second account. It's in bold, because it's the reason why we'll never see this in game. Eve is built around multiaccounting and the changes that are set to use less accounts to do the same job are a no-go with CCP. They WANT you to buy a second account if you want to try something else, they don't want you to retrain your existing account or to move skill points from somewhere else. That's why you can train only one character on one account at a time and not all 3 of them. Moreover, the game pushes you to buying more accounts: as was said, most capital ship pilots have many accounts because you can't even move your ship with one account; super-cap pilots are 100% multiaccounters, because you can't even dock your ship, you either leave it floating in space or you are trapped there like in a prison; and the list is long, if we had a statistics on the wealth distribution among PLAYERS (not accounts), we'll see that from a certain threshold multiaccounters are becoming a majority with an increasing margin towards very rich characters. How many multibillionaires have got their billions with one account after all, not amny if anyone at all. I will even rephrase it: how many single account players can have fun in the game 100% of time without having to worry about replenishing their ISK reservoirs?
Spy detection: I despise spies and spying, but I'm against out of game ways to detect spies. However, some features for character accountability should be introduced. Now, there's no means at all to protect the corp from a spy. When characters are freely bought and sold, and one person can have a million accounts, there's no way you can detect a spy that has half a brain.
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Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.21 08:57:00 -
[38]
I like the respec aspect on a single character that has been suggested. If done right and as DigitalCommunist suggests, if it's done at something like half the standard non-implanted rate for that character it would work to help correct mistakes and also allow a degree of fluidity to your characters progression. That has to be a good thing.
Then the mix'n'match stuff between characters and accounts, while I think these are interesting there is too much room for the haves to totally own the have nots in an epic account buying, character transferring orgy of skill point merging.
I do like the idea of alts showing during corp application process though. But to be fair, a professional spy would just have a dedicated account or two for it so I would question the worth of that.
Good idea on the fluid respec.
STARFLEET COMMS - Eve blogs, groups and forums
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scripts upcp
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Posted - 2007.12.21 09:03:00 -
[39]
Why do you need to respec in this game!!! All it takes is a few days to train up skills.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2007.12.21 09:14:00 -
[40]
An interesting idea.
Perhaps if we consider skill points as a liquid, as you train a skill it fills the skill resevoir, quickly at first slowing to a trickle later. Perhaps then a mechanism whereby you can drain off, or syphon of a skill to fill another.
For example you have Recon V. Fed up with your hopeless Pilgrim cruiser you drain Recon V to fill Navigation IV. Simultaneously you are able to train another skill normally, or increase the rate at which Navigation V trains. Not an instantaneous process, more a means of managing a resource.
Oh, and welcome back Digi and the other forum vets (Jade, Tank, Hippoking et al), you've been missed.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.12.21 10:39:00 -
[41]
too many lines of thought for me that point to the way of the exploit. Scary proposition, but I see it's merits.
Unless it comes heavily pre-nerfed (like siphoning/redistributing skillpoints at a 50% loss and at 50% more time spent), I suspect a lot of people will go the way of buying-high SP and siphoning till spent. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.21 11:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist and I fear when CCP starts throwing phrases like "boost patch" around in response to trivial whining. I am probably not alone.
Hear, hear, the use of that phrase has me majorly worried as well. For one it sounds like they are nerfing things on purpose only to reverse it somewhat through a boost patch.
It feels like they nerf hard, bring it to live, analyze the effects on live, then boost it up to bring back balance.
This is very very very bad and sounds like they dont put enough thought and testing in their nerfs.
Stay away from the constant nerfing boosting ping pong Mythic does to this day with DAOC for each nerf AND each boost you are making people angry and driving them away from the game.
Suddenly we see the use of terms as FOTM and Respeccing surface, I'm having a major flashback to DAOC times...
First of all FOTM doesn't exist in EvE, FOTY maybe, but the skillsystem surely doesnt allow for flavor of the month... when even the devs start using the term FOTM I start to feel they have lost the link to the games reality...
Respeccing request are normal when the nerfs are so hard that they completly limit you characters roles or force him into a new training path of months to respecialize.
Are the nerfers keeping Eve's skillsystem in mind? We don't have a /level all V, we train for weeks, months and sometimes even years to specialize.
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2007.12.21 15:57:00 -
[43]
I'll respond to some of the good comments after work, but I just wanted to express my loud angry hate at being moved to the black hole that is the ideas forum :[
_______________________________ Complex Fullerene Shards; why God? :( |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2007.12.21 17:49:00 -
[44]
Anyone ever play Neocron? We could LoM there, got you all drunk and made you unable to do anything while you were removing the skillpoints, and allowed you to keep playing after you realized, "Hrm, drones not so good for PVP". _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2007.12.22 18:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist I'll respond to some of the good comments after work, but I just wanted to express my loud angry hate at being moved to the black hole that is the ideas forum :[
We warned you. Next time do the Skill forum. You'll have my full attention there. --- 351 of 359 skills trained. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:45:00 -
[46]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Obvious exploits with the above: people buying up characters to ôconsumeö their skillpoints. Simple solution: once a character leaves its first and original account, it cannot share. Obvious metagaming: people making cheap and disposable spy alts that are passable as real chars. Combined solution: EVE API already supports checking of all characters on a single account and their information. CCP should use their own API backend to code a feature into the application process. If requested, the corp recruiting said character would see who the other two characters on that account are. Therefore the end result is: it doesnÆt stop spying, it doesnÆt help it, doesnÆt hinder it. Obvious metagaming 2: training one char with all the adaptability skills learned to 5. Very simple solution: the rate of SP transfer between characters should always be limited by the slowest char.
There is probably more, but IÆm not going to do CCPÆs job here. The point is that it can be done in a way that creates more fun, potential and options without changing core gameplay. Skillpoints will still be an asset, veterans will still have them in spades, specialization will still rule, crappy spies will still fail, farmers still donÆt benefit.
none of this sounds fun Trashed sig, Shark was here |
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