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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.27 13:53:00 -
[121]
Look at me, I'm arguing with myself over the internet.
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Daeva Vios
Ares Arms and Modules LLC
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Posted - 2007.12.27 13:53:00 -
[122]
Well, considering there are no reliably successful methods of preventing a scam...it's not that big of an accomplishment.
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Giovanni F
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Posted - 2007.12.27 13:56:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Hexxx The term "remarkable" is a bit of a stretch.
Read up on EIB, as that's the closest thing to "remarkable" you'll find.
I'm not going to list out the exact points here, but there was a certain laundry list of things that Reithe did that dramatically improved his odds for pulling off his scam. I'm sorry to say, I was very close to raising a red flag when he was doing his "expansion" but after speaking with him he was able to rationalize what he was doing and it seemed acceptable to me at the time. He was clever, I'll give him that, but that's the extent of what I'll concede in terms of accolades.
With each scam and failed business (yes, there is a distinction between a purposeful scam and an opportunistic scam) it becomes more clear what is and is not acceptable for an IPO. The market is shaped by these events.
Yes, Reithe helped shape the market to a small extent. Was what he did paticularly special or unique? Not remarkably so, he didn't really break any new ground but he may have incrementally did things better than those who came before him.
Just remember; Good shall always Triumph over Evil, because Evil is a big jerk.
Thats why I made the distinction between a defined scam, which was Riethe, and one that was the result of "sh*t happens", perhaps what happened in the Wylker incident. I use the word remarkable in the since that I am a tad bit surprised that he was able to not only set up a scam, but continue the scam under the guise of a corporate expansion, something I have never seen done before in EVE, which may be correlated to the fact that I'm rather new to EVE (only about 6 months of play).
I've read up on EIB, and that is truly remarkable, along with GHSC (which was not a scam, but just ana amazing use of game mechanics and strategic planning), but what Riethe did was the one scam I've really followed, so perhaps I'm a bit biased. Regardless, to get over 40b in ISK from many veteran investors amazes me a little bit. I was not financially hurt by the scam, but market wise, it does change the way I look at investments and my fellow players.
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.27 14:04:00 -
[124]
EIB's numbers were inflated.
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Daeva Vios
Ares Arms and Modules LLC
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Posted - 2007.12.27 14:09:00 -
[125]
Every scam that does come through is a learning experience, and it's good to acknowledge it as such (especially if you learn from watching, not experiencing directly).
This is why the one piece of advice I find most appropriate is to not invest anything you can't afford to lose. You've got a greater than 50% chance of never seeing that money again.
Me personally, I write off any investment I make as gambling money, and assume I'll never see any returns.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.12.27 19:09:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Daeva Vios This is why the one piece of advice I find most appropriate is to not invest anything you can't afford to lose. You've got a greater than 50% chance of never seeing that money again.
Me personally, I write off any investment I make as gambling money, and assume I'll never see any returns.
Once again we agree. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2007.12.27 23:41:00 -
[127]
Holly cow I think you guys should hope this thread falls to the depths of the MD forum. Any player that is new to the market and comes across this thread and reads it they will probably run with their money.
As for HEXX, Shard, Ricdic, and the others. Yea, I do not know much about computers, but I do know that even with my limited knowledge one could definately have characters talking to you that you would never be able to link to Riethe. So do not be so sure you are not communicating with him directly, for that will only make you all loose more face if he does pull something else off.
Just a friendly wording from someone that knows what worthless posturing can produce.
This thread has made a joke of the MD forum.
_______________________________________________________________________________________ So who am I? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2007.12.27 23:43:00 -
[128]
Holly cow I think you guys should hope this thread falls to the depths of the MD forum. Any player that is new to the market and comes across this thread and reads it they will probably run with their money.
As for HEXX, Shard, Ricdic, and the others. Yea, I do not know much about computers, but I do know that even with my limited knowledge one could definately have characters talking to you that you would never be able to link to Riethe. So do not be so sure you are not communicating with him directly, for that will only make you all loose more face if he does pull something else off.
Just a friendly warning from someone that knows what worthless posturing can produce.
This thread has made a joke of the MD forums. No one will ever know who is really handleing their isk.
_______________________________________________________________________________________ So who am I? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.28 00:37:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Shadarle on 28/12/2007 00:37:45 Actually, I do in fact know with 100% certainty that anyone I talk to on any sort of regular basis is not an alt of Riethe. You can wonder how I know this, but I assure you it is not a guess.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.28 00:38:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon Holly cow I think you guys should hope this thread falls to the depths of the MD forum. Any player that is new to the market and comes across this thread and reads it they will probably run with their money.
As for HEXX, Shard, Ricdic, and the others. Yea, I do not know much about computers, but I do know that even with my limited knowledge one could definately have characters talking to you that you would never be able to link to Riethe. So do not be so sure you are not communicating with him directly, for that will only make you all loose more face if he does pull something else off.
Just a friendly warning from someone that knows what worthless posturing can produce.
This thread has made a joke of the MD forums. No one will ever know who is really handleing their isk.
_______________________________________________________________________________________ So who am I? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not my technique to disclose. I won't take someone else's credit.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 02:21:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 28/12/2007 00:37:45 Actually, I do in fact know with 100% certainty that anyone I talk to on any sort of regular basis is not an alt of Riethe. You can wonder how I know this, but I assure you it is not a guess.
Perhaps the part where I posted that I don't talk to you regularly gave it away?
Maybe. :D
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 02:22:00 -
[132]
HEXXXX I'm sorry man but I genuinely don't live in Florida.
And you Don't have my IP. Well, you might... I just didn't visit in any way that can turn up a name (at least that I remember. Either way, you goofed up somewhere.)
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.28 02:36:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Riethe HEXXXX I'm sorry man but I genuinely don't live in Florida.
And you Don't have my IP. Well, you might... I just didn't visit in any way that can turn up a name (at least that I remember. Either way, you goofed up somewhere.)
Heh.
Ok.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 02:47:00 -
[134]
This isn't fair.
A whole bunch of dumb people joined my thread claiming a bunch of stuff that isn't true.
Argh.
There's no way to win this one. I should be happy that you're so bad at this...but it's more frustrating hearing you guys so set on something when it couldn't have been any worse of a conclusion...
It's almost as if I pity you, for building yourself up to be such a leet hax0r, and getting some poor guy in Florida, and Shadarle getting some poor guy in the Netherlands.
All I'm saying is don't ever try to join some sort of government-cyber-criminal-tracking-taskforce.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.28 02:51:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Hexxx on 28/12/2007 02:53:41
Originally by: Riethe This isn't fair.
A whole bunch of dumb people joined my thread claiming a bunch of stuff that isn't true.
Argh.
There's no way to win this one. I should be happy that you're so bad at this...but it's more frustrating hearing you guys so set on something when it couldn't have been any worse of a conclusion...
It's almost as if I pity you, for building yourself up to be such a leet hax0r, and getting some poor guy in Florida, and Shadarle getting some poor guy in the Netherlands.
All I'm saying is don't ever try to join some sort of government-cyber-criminal-tracking-taskforce.
I actually did a manual traceroute instead of using a webtool...turns out I was wrong after all.
13 ROADRUNNER.edge3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.78.195.190) 70.156 ms 70.085 ms ROADRUNNER.edge3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.71.36.206) 69.905 ms 14 tge10-2.ontrca1-swt1.socal.rr.com (76.167.2.77) 80.085 ms 79.533 ms 76.294 ms 15 76.167.9.193 (76.167.9.193) 80.984 ms 81.038 ms 77.594 ms 16 gig14.hemtca1-bsr1.socal.rr.com (76.167.9.78) 79.882 ms 84.317 ms 82.680 ms
I'll need to map this of course...but yeah...the end of the line is close to LA, which is a major hub. You were right Reithe.
I hate having to do this manually, it's been a while and I'm rusty. Not sure what the heck was going on with my first tool.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Coconut Joe
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.12.28 03:02:00 -
[136]
am i close? - Eve IGB Store Template - The complete eve retail solution. |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.28 03:09:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Coconut Joe am i close?
Nice. =)
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 04:25:00 -
[138]
You're just off by 100 miles. At least you got the right state and the right country though!
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:58:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Daeva Vios Well, considering there are no reliably successful methods of preventing a scam...it's not that big of an accomplishment.
I think many would beg to differ! Even though that's admitting defeat.
Hey Hexxx, you match me up to anyone yet? Or you going to withhold that like Shad over there. Find me on any other continents yet? It's like I'm Carmen Sandiego.
Come on! YOU CAN DO IT!
Tell me what names you got! I'll buy you a present. A big present.
Riethe |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:18:00 -
[140]
Hm, I am wondering if it is possible to get IPs ingame, but I doubt it. Only that good old trick with image link sent via evemail (it still works though).
On forums it is different, you can collect IPs easily by your sig image or even classic in-post image (that is against rules though). Problem is, how to link these IPs to characters. Best way would be via quote and reply I believe. Since web browser will kindly tell your sig from what page is user accessing it, you can detect someone quoting you (and where) - then it shouldn't be very hard to pair via-quote sig accesses and posts with your quote posted in similiar time.
If your post is first in thread, it is even better, cos anyone clicking on reply will let you know that he is replying. Again, match time of posts and time of reply sig accesses and your have paired IPs. It is not 100% accurate, but with more threads monitored this way, you should be able to get IPs from most of people who posted.
Besides that I don't know. But I am pretty sure some ppl use sigs for spying as some even wanted to set a cookie in my browser, how evil.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.28 13:13:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Riethe
Originally by: Daeva Vios Well, considering there are no reliably successful methods of preventing a scam...it's not that big of an accomplishment.
I think many would beg to differ! Even though that's admitting defeat.
Hey Hexxx, you match me up to anyone yet? Or you going to withhold that like Shad over there. Find me on any other continents yet? It's like I'm Carmen Sandiego.
Come on! YOU CAN DO IT!
Tell me what names you got! I'll buy you a present. A big present.
For someone who claims to be so intelligent, you don't catch on all that quick. Why do I need to do this?
The only real tests are those that come when an IPO launches. Only then will tests like these really be needed. Like I said before Reithe...I want you to spend some real time cooking up a new scam, I want you to get invested in it, I want you to expend some real effort. Maybe I'll find a character of yours before you launch your next scam....but isn't it a better use of my time to just wait untill the next IPO launches?
Cutting you off prematurely wouldn't be very fun and it'd be letting you off entirely too easily. Please...think of my own enjoyment here. What do you think would be more satisfying to me?
Of course, I could be bluffing right?
Right?
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 13:45:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Riethe on 28/12/2007 13:45:02 I plan on spending a bunch of effort shipping off an email regarding the method you're employing to capture IPs.
We'll see how that goes.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.28 15:57:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Riethe Edited by: Riethe on 28/12/2007 13:45:02 I plan on spending a bunch of effort shipping off an email regarding the method you're employing to capture IPs.
We'll see how that goes.
What method would that be exactly?
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.28 17:16:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Riethe Edited by: Riethe on 28/12/2007 13:45:02 I plan on spending a bunch of effort shipping off an email regarding the method you're employing to capture IPs.
We'll see how that goes.
I love it. Nothing better than watching a scammer cry about someone else playing unfair. Except perhaps when they have no clue what they are even talking about.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 17:22:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Da Rulez 8. No posting of personal information Please respect the privacy of other Eve players and do not give out information such as phone numbers and addresses.
See that trace route a few posts up? See the final address? That's me.
Also, what Hexxx is doing and advocating doing is something that, in the wrong hands, can be quite malicious.
Taking appropriate action when someone is harmfully placing information within public view is far from crying.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:11:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 28/12/2007 18:13:36 The infamous Double Post again. You would think I would know by now that you can not back page from an original post. LMAO!!!
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:11:00 -
[147]
I know I hold no weight here other then the fact that I am an EVE player, but please guys stop this. I am pointing no finger at one person but all my fingers at all. The heavy hitters here, and they know who they are, have worked hard from what I have read to create an in game system that was not intended by CCP. To this I applaude for taking advantage of what was giving to you and creating what has is known as the EVE market place.
But what is happening here is chiseling away from that hard work. Reithe scammed you once and according to yall should have been gone by know. You contunue to feed his flame and keep him alive.
This is turning into a playground **** tossing fest. Nothing productive is happening. Once again I am clueless when it comes to hacking and tacking and programming...hell I know little about computers accept how to use the tools I needed to get through grad school. But, it is looking like people could be compromising their accounts for nothing other then worthess posturing.
Then again this is my 2 cents and I could be totally wrong in thinking that this could cause major problems for the market players. This is one of the ugliest threads I have kept up with. I have little money and came to the market forums to find a way to make it work for me and have seen much to my distaste. I will not comment on my experiances since this is not the thread to do that. I will now sit in the background make more isk, research and bid my time.
I wash my hands of this matter and will make no further comments, sit in my place, and watch this thread continue to degrade the market forums.
____________________________________________________________________________________________ Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider "As me wallet grows so do me balls"
#|----> \*///-----|==== ----- <|[]-This was stolen from a old old post. Just saying that it is not my creation /*\\\-----|==== ----- #|---->
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:13:00 -
[148]
What's everyone talking about when they comment on how bad this thread is? There's a lot of good discussion happening in here.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:19:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Shadarle on 28/12/2007 18:22:34 Edited by: Shadarle on 28/12/2007 18:20:18
Originally by: Riethe See that trace route a few posts up? See the final address? That's me.
Actually, it's almost assuredly not. Unless you have a static address there is no way for you to prove that IP is yours. The last digits could have been changed by Hexxx and the positional trace would have worked identically. I assume he was smart enough to change the IP slightly so as to be posting a random person's IP. If so he didn't post any of your real life info that you didn't give away yourself, as you already told everyone you lived in Cali and 100 miles from LA.
Even if he didn't change the IP address at all though, that IP does not belong to you. Someone having that IP cannot find you. Someone else is using that IP right now, not you, in all likelihood.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:25:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 28/12/2007 18:25:53
Originally by: Riethe What's everyone talking about when they comment on how bad this thread is? There's a lot of good discussion happening in here.
Damn I got sucked in again. Yes Riethe, their have been some good points in this discussion, but also would suggest reading it over with a since of objectivity.
This thread does nothing but hurt EVE in general. I think most would say that the ability to use alts for subterfuge as a tactic has been debated heavily for obvious reasons. This thread does nothing, for a new player, to boost confidence in me and probably others to give anyone any isk. I just hope that when the heavy hitters have said that only a small percentage of players even troll the MD forums, that they are true. Because the more people that see it will be less confident in any of you all to hold ther money.
For anyone that is new like me has thoughts in there head about which of these toons are connected and who has been here the longest and thought of some supper scam that has been working on for 2 maybe 3 years.
This thread undermines everyones credability, even mine (if yall deem me to have any)!
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