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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:23:00 -
[1]
Quote: 1409 You can only put a module online in space if you have 95% of your cap charged, toggling a module to online will wipe your capacitor down to 33% full.
So, yet again CCP lays into Caldari pilots because the only module anyone ever has offline is an MWD but now that you can only switch it online using the above restrictions, you simply can't use MWD offline on a Caldari ship with any realistic hope of maintaining good shield usability.
For a start, if you switch on your MWD in-space with a Scorpion, your cap is reduced to 33% even before the cap usage of the MWD is taken into account. This gives ONE burst of MWD before you're out of cap. Scorpion is already a lame duck when it comes to speed/agility so MWD will be practically useless.
Then there's the fact most other clases of ship have the ability to armour-tank so shields aren't that much of a problem.
I'm glad I can fly Minmatar and Gallente now.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Naz Farooq
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:31:00 -
[2]
There's an easy solution to the MWD problem: Implement the 1000MN AB!!!
My concern is that right now switching ships results in offline modules if your setup pushes the cpu/grid of the chassis. Then you can either:
a) activate the modules in space (easy) b) strip off and re-install all of the modules in station (sucketh)
Sure, everyone supports saving Einstein's brain, but when you put it in the body of a Great White Shark, suddenly you've "gone too far". |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:36:00 -
[3]
why is this a "Caldari" ONLY nerf?
"We brake for nobody"
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:36:00 -
[4]
Lets face it, CCP hates Caldari. Every patch seems to screw us over some more.
Make a difference
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:37:00 -
[5]
the easy way would be to NOT IMPLEMENT IT AT ALL. the hard way would be to give raven and scorpion one more lowslot each. maybe two for scorpion to make up for its sucky shields. --------------------------
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:52:00 -
[6]
OMG so people that use a mwd for defense will now suffer the same penalties or face even servere penalities as the people that use em for offense, it's a CRIME I tell you completely unbalancing, caldari are useless now. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gariuys on 16/03/2004 17:54:49
Quote: why is this a "Caldari" ONLY nerf?
Cause they are idiots. The 2 posters that is. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.03.16 17:57:00 -
[8]
I agree with Admiral IceBlock - how does this make for a nerf to Caldari?
Every ship there is will suffer the cap hit if they engage a MWD in space - and Caldari use the weaponry that require the least amount of cap to be used (missilery).
About shields: This is affected by turning on a MWD in space how? This will therefore be bad for Caldari how? Because Caldari use shield tanking that require alot of cap to hold? Well, believe it or not, but armour repair modules suck quite a bit of cap as well, and an armour tank doesn't usually have the amount of Cap Relays necessary to recover from a presumed cap hit.
I think you people need to rethink your opinions. This feature won't affect Caldari much more than the rest of the races. Besides, if you are that worried about not being able to turn your MWD's on in-space - turn them on in-station instead.
I'd say this would be more of a "nerf" (hate this word in this context since nothing is being nerfed, only a new feature being added which might be more useful for some than for others) for the blasterfitted Megathron, which in Josh's scenario would have all of it's cap drained in an effort to get in range of it's target in the first place.
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.03.16 18:23:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Baun on 16/03/2004 18:24:14 I don't think this is a Caldari centric nerf (even though I would otherwise like to think so). Indeed, this is not a nerf at all but a new feature.
The described restriction placed upon this new feature is such that this is essentially not a valid process to undertake in combat. By placing the CAP restrictions on CCP wants to make sure people do not do what you have been doing already Joshua, leaving an MWD offline while fighting and then toggling it on to run away. This was, evidently, not an intended feature. As such, now that they have standardized the usage of what was previously an unintended feature they have simply made it viable only to switch from travel to combat setups (or vice-versa) whilst not in combat. Your "nerf" then is nothing more than the fixing and reclassifying of an unintended feature.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Dirty Sanchez
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Posted - 2004.03.16 19:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Dirty Sanchez on 16/03/2004 19:06:49 There is actually a side benifit for using MWD to get into position in that you can then turn it off. (get cap and shields) makes those MWD megathrons look pretty good.
<Thrak> I AM ***
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Masochist
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Posted - 2004.03.16 20:00:00 -
[11]
Quote: the easy way would be to NOT IMPLEMENT IT AT ALL. the hard way would be to give raven and scorpion one more lowslot each. maybe two for scorpion to make up for its sucky shields.
Yeah, you give Scorpions another low slot and they'll be right back on top of the food chain.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2004.03.16 20:12:00 -
[12]
check out Hellmar's post here and you'l find that that change goes along with this new ability .. which opens rather a few possibilitys if you ask me . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Fenring
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Posted - 2004.03.16 20:14:00 -
[13]
Quote: I agree with Admiral IceBlock - how does this make for a nerf to Caldari?
Every ship there is will suffer the cap hit if they engage a MWD in space - and Caldari use the weaponry that require the least amount of cap to be used (missilery).
Missiles are not exactly the most damaging or effective weapons, and as for the Scorpion, they still have not sorted out its bonuses.
Why would ships intended to use missiles have a Hybrid modifier, and until Missiles are made more powerful the Raven isnt a lot of good.
Missiles vs Hybrids/Lasers or Projectiles always ends with Missiles being weaker over time, so the majority of Scorpion pilots fit 425mm's or 1400mm's.
And as for Ravens, Im still not sure what they are supposed to be good at, they cant mine, they cant npc farm, and tbh they cant fight unless they are sitting in close, or the Raven"Missile Boat" Battleship ends up fitting 425mm's.
So until they balance Caldari ships, then this hurts Caldari a bit more than it does the other ships, who can either armour tank, or not need to use a MWD as much.
Sorry for the rant, and I understand that this has little to do with the thread, but until CCP sort out the Caldari Bonuses anything like this that gives other Races an advantage, is just one more nail in the Caldari Coffin. "The enemy to be feared is the one who wears the face of a friend"
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.16 20:25:00 -
[14]
It all depends on whether toggling offline procudes the same cap penalty, I guess.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.03.16 20:52:00 -
[15]
Joshua, I think you and Jim Raynor should just get together and start a support group for lamers that like to cry about caldari ships all day.
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Masi
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Posted - 2004.03.16 21:39:00 -
[16]
Armour tanks dont have the slots to replace the cap usage that MWD uses (If used) or Large Armour Repairers. But, Caldari and esp the scorp have the med slots to add a cap injecter or 2 and still have an effective Sheild Tank setup. Its more disasterous for the other races with there mid slots not as good as the Scorp or Raven.. But esp the scorp with its 8 Med Slots :) -------------------------
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Arthur Eld
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Posted - 2004.03.16 21:47:00 -
[17]
I could say this is an Amarr nerf since Amarr have the largest capacitors it will require more cap energy to activate the same module. It sucks, yes, but not just for Caldari.
____________________ First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. We deal in lead.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.03.16 22:44:00 -
[18]
The more mid slots you have the less this will hurt if you want to have a togglable MWD as a MWD/Cap booster combo is basically a complete unnerf of the MWD for battleships. Personally I see this as being a bit pro-Caldari myself.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Cirle
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Posted - 2004.03.16 22:58:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cirle on 16/03/2004 23:01:27
Quote: Joshua, I think you and Jim Raynor should just get together and start a support group for lamers that like to cry about caldari ships all day.
I'll join that group, please. I have given up and now fly a Raven because it is, um, smaller, more agile (well feels it at least), targets faster and, in fact, flys faster than a Scorpion... which seems a little counter intuitive. It is also easier to fly out of some of the stations, and I got bored of getting stuck while launching ;)
Edit: The above is about the Caldari whining, not about the toggle feature... which while neat, will probably never get used in my agent running, as having to get back up to 95% to turn a mwd back on takes too long. This will be reviewed when level 4 uber-impossible agents turn up, of course.
Cirle |
Jin'Bing Ju
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Posted - 2004.03.16 23:17:00 -
[20]
Quote: Joshua, I think you and Jim Raynor should just get together and start a support group for lamers that like to cry about caldari ships all day.
I second that. This has nothing to do with the caldari. You guys bring shame to the Caldari (of with I am myself) with your constant crying. Be strong! Adapt! Evolve! Thats what being a caldari is all about. I thru warrior overcomes all obstacles.
Please, no more whining. Its embrassing.
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.03.16 23:25:00 -
[21]
Despite the fact that this does not have much to do with the caldari, Jim Raynor's (and Joshua's and my own) expressed concerns about caldari ships are not therefore invalid.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.03.16 23:50:00 -
[22]
I wouldn't say the ccp targets just Caldari. Look the amarr lasers.
Or 12.2 sec RoF on 1400 hoz's
Or Gallante: Nough said.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.03.16 23:50:00 -
[23]
Quote: Despite the fact that this does not have much to do with the caldari, Jim Raynor's (and Joshua's and my own) expressed concerns about caldari ships are not therefore invalid.
I hear complaints about caldari ships being "nerfed" everyday. If they don't work anymore then why do people still use them? Yeah Blackbirds are slow as hell now...but they still own other cruisers so they can't be that bad. Caracals already pack more of a punch than any other cruiser when fitted properly, do they really need a missle launcher firing speed or damage bonus? Scorps are slow too, and they don't do much damage...but Scorps are an EW ship, and they work just fine for that. Raven's are another story, but 6 medium slots is quite nice, and I think that makes up for the shortcomings in their offensive abilities. Oh, and don't forget, Kestrels are still better than most interceptors for PvP.
I'll agree that there are certain things about caldari ships that don't make sense. Maybe they should get missle launcher bonuses and stuff like that. But they will have to nerf something else on caldari ships to keep them in line with the other races because from the frigate all the way up to the battleship class Caldari ships are great for PvP, unless you aren't creative enough to put all those medium slots to good use.
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Gaiam
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Posted - 2004.03.17 00:16:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Gaiam on 17/03/2004 00:20:41 this is a very good thing.
offline mwd seems to me to be a total chicken**** way to setup a ship.
"caldari nerf"?? man those poor caldari are so persecuted by CCP.
edit-typo
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Jin'Bing Ju
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Posted - 2004.03.17 01:00:00 -
[25]
Quote: Despite the fact that this does not have much to do with the caldari, Jim Raynor's (and Joshua's and my own) expressed concerns about caldari ships are not therefore invalid.
Why yes Baun, I do agree that a good part of the concerns expressed by yourself, Calvert, and Raynor are rooted in reasonably sound logic (this one, however, is not and actually hints of paranoia). However, must these ideals be presents amongst boorish whines and whimpers? Can't these ideals and perspectives be voiced with dignity and maturity, not paranoia and insipid rants?
It just that, IMHO, its embrassing to caldari and caldari battleship pilots to see these concerns surfaced in such a poor manor.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.17 01:21:00 -
[26]
Honestly I don't see how this is a Caldari only nerf, I mean a Typhoon has as crappy armor as a Scorpion does no?
Anyways, MWD suck for PvP, I don't know why people still use them in PvP at all. A Scorpion certainly doesn't need a MWD for PvP, unless it's for running away. A good Scorpion pilot is fighting at long range anyways using ECM anyways..
If you want to fight at short range, warp in at 15km, that's enough range to hit people with blasters, then close in. Why don't use a LiF afterburner and perhaps a nanofiber in one of your low slots? That is pretty decent speed and will allow you to close in on 98% of battleships unless they too are rigged for speed.
Oh, and about Caracal, it's bonus does suck, perhaps it should have a shield bonus, it really should have a missle bonus, I mean a Thorax has 5 turrets, no one complains it has a 5%/lvl dmg bonus for hybrids.. why can't a Caracal, that is defensively weaker and has literally no drone bay, can not have a bonus for it's 5 launchers? That makes no sense to me.
As for the Blackbird, it's supposed to be a light and agile cruiser with EW capabilities, yes it has 6 midslots, big deal. When Shiva comes those 6 midslots won't be such a huge advantage for PvP since EW is changing drasitcally. Blackbird is weak as hell in shields/armor/firepower so it should have it's speed back.. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Anything
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Posted - 2004.03.17 01:36:00 -
[27]
God forbid some of you people might actually have to think about fighting it out rather than relying on a bank of deactivated microwarpdrives to escape.
I've fought people and seen them zip off into the distance when the going gets rough too many times to count. Maybe if you didn't take up so many slots for super fast escapes you wouldn't NEED to escape.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.03.17 01:37:00 -
[28]
Quote: As for the Blackbird, it's supposed to be a light and agile cruiser with EW capabilities, yes it has 6 midslots, big deal. When Shiva comes those 6 midslots won't be such a huge advantage for PvP since EW is changing drasitcally. Blackbird is weak as hell in shields/armor/firepower so it should have it's speed back..
The proposed EW changes will ruin Caldari ships. But for now they work ok.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.17 01:48:00 -
[29]
Quote: The proposed EW changes will ruin Caldari ships. But for now they work ok.
Will not kill them if the Caldari bonuses are changed to missiles and missiles are improved to the level of turrets, be it via skills or actual missile boosts, I don't know.
These things TomB has stated he will do before Shiva.
Caldari need more offense. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.03.17 02:17:00 -
[30]
Quote: The proposed EW changes will ruin Caldari ships. But for now they work ok.
It'll ruin Caldari for EW to be sure. Not sure why the changes are deemed so necessary. I rarely, if ever, hear anyone griping that EW is overpowered or unfair.
Yes EW can be brutal on another ship but it is not an easy setup to account for all possibilities. Also, in my experience, Blackbirds don't last long. The nerf to the BB was needed but WAY over done (became the heaviest cruiser in EVE and it is supposed to be a light and nimble cruiser by its very description). It doesn't have a lot of offensive firepower and is relatively weak in taking damage. Add that it is usually the first thing everyone tries to kill in PvP and does go down pretty fast it is hardly an ideal uber cruiser to be in.
The only EW module that is overpowered I think are Dampers. The "poor man's" EW so to speak and it does nearly as well as jammers and is a helluva lot easier to fit. I hate to say it cuz I do like them but these probably could do with a nerf or a better way to counter them.
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