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Antic
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.26 09:06:00 -
[31]
you can not balance an entire shipclass around just one ship. I disagree with you about the retribution, but even if you were right they should still buff AFs and then if retribution is too powerfull then nerf it.
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Khanid Venari
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Posted - 2007.12.26 09:48:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Antic you can not balance an entire shipclass around just one ship. I disagree with you about the retribution, but even if you were right they should still buff AFs and then if retribution is too powerfull then nerf it.
The retri is fine imo. It's doing bad enough with no tackling gear on it tbh. But the ship is fun to fly and packs quite a punch. Doesnt need a nerf, but Id swap the 10% cap use bonus with 5% dmg bonus, or take a high and make it into a med ( but that's not gonna happen, ever ).
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Garozux Varonen
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Posted - 2007.12.26 13:21:00 -
[33]
AF are just way too slow! All they need is a speed boost.
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.12.26 15:41:00 -
[34]
People actually use assault frigates? -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Kal Shakai
Dominus Imperium
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Posted - 2007.12.26 15:51:00 -
[35]
This is the inconsistency in design that shows why no one wants to fly them.
Vexor Mass 11,250,000 / Base Speed 170 Ishtar Mass 11,250,000 / Base Speed 190
Incursus Mass 1,100,000 / Base Speed 300 Ishkur Mass 2,000,000 / Base Speed 250
If the same logic was followed for AFs like with HACs you would see:
Ishkur Mass 1,100,000 / Base Speed 335
I might fly one then.
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Edriahn
Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.12.26 17:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Xaen People actually use assault frigates?
Nope.
Quote: This is the inconsistency in design that shows why no one wants to fly them.
This has been pointed out on numerous topics. Its just wrong. Now with the changes around the second interceptors (Ares, Malediction, etc.) there is a niche for a high speed high DPS and tanked frigate-class ship. Its about time for AFs to take their place in the EVE world.
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Virgil Aquilis
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:18:00 -
[37]
Chrissakes CCP, just lower the mass on them and maybe boost the speed a little bit.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:34:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hannobaal A cruiser will also be using an mwd for the most part. The Assault Ships' sig radius with mwd on is much smaller than a cruiser's sig radius is with mwd on. Hence, an assault ship is much more difficult for turrets to track than a cruiser is regardless.
This is irrelevant. Cruiser vs. AF, both ships will be hitting each other just fine. The AF has no real advantage in dodging fire from cruiser-size turrets.
Against battleships, the difference is pretty much irrelevant. The battleships that actually bother paying attention to smaller ships (precision cruise Ravens, anti-support snipers, etc) will hit both ships just fine. Also note that drones are a battleship's best defense against small ships, and cruisers are harder to kill with drones.
Quote: lower sig radius always means the ship is more difficult to track (even if the sig radius is larger than the gun's sig resolution). And a larger sig radius always means the ship is easier to track for gun turrets.
Which is pretty much irrelevant when the ship isn't fast enough to make good use of that difference.
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts To the BOB troll .... this is not a thread about your ubar t1 cruiser fittings active tank to kill rats in low sec or lvl2 missions. It's about pvp fits with passive tanks ... uhm yeah stabbers outperform every AF except for tracking ... but that will change after the boost I guess. tyvm, I am enlightened now YAY
Yes, I'm a troll who only flies PvE ships.
If passive tanks are what you want, the cruiser still comes out ahead. The AF has higher resistances, but the cruiser has higher base HP and the ability to fit much larger plates/extenders.
Originally by: Jackal79 I fly a retribution and I can assure you, assault frigates have WAY more survivability than T1 cruisers. They have a 35m sig radius (I don't fit a MWD on my retri - sig radius is always 35m), and they have mad resists.
Then if your fleet commander doesn't kill you himself for refusing to fit the mandatory MWD, you are too slow to stay out of webs, and are quickly run down and killed. A 35m sig radius will not save you when you're webbed.
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Prometheus Exenthal
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:46:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 26/12/2007 21:47:22 Scrap the tackle gear, fit an AB and Cap Booster with a rep and you'll be living for a loong time.
In their current form AF's need to have numbers. Having a couple is not a good idea since they will be run down and killed quickly as stated above. -
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 26/12/2007 21:47:22 Scrap the tackle gear, fit an AB and Cap Booster with a rep and you'll be living for a loong time.
If by "a loong time" you mean "as long as it takes for your target to run you down with their MWD, web you, and launch drones", then yes, you will live a loong time.
Quote: In their current form AF's need to have numbers. Having a couple is not a good idea since they will be run down and killed quickly as stated above.
In other words, they're useless. I can have either:
1) A pack of AFs with superior numbers that can give my opponent a fair fight.
or
2) The same number of larger ships that will gank my opponent in seconds without any chance of survival.
Such a difficult choice...
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:15:00 -
[41]
The particular assault frigate I fly does not fit a MWD for antisupport fleet setup (unless your ******** and don't like being successful at your role in the fleet). Neither does a coercer in it's "standard" anti-support setups. Retri fits an AB, coercers fit a sensor booster for anti-support. Anything else is stupid.
And yes, when you are flying at 500 m/s and you have a 35m sig radius, cruiser size weapons have a hard time hitting you. An afterburner gives you enough speed to run back to the gate if you get caught in a medium sized gate camp (provided you don't get webbed) because the tank is so stout. AFs also align faster than cruisers, increasing their survivability.
Speed tanking an assault frigate is stupid, because they are obviously not meant to speed tank with a MWD. Fit an AB II and hardners/SAR/plates for tank.
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Alowishus
Shadow Company FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jackal79 It seems some ppl have misconceptions about assault frigates...
I fly a retribution and I can assure you, assault frigates have WAY more survivability than T1 cruisers. They have a 35m sig radius (I don't fit a MWD on my retri - sig radius is always 35m), and they have mad resists. T1 cruisers may have more hit points, but they are much easier to kill.
For anti support (killing interceptors, dictors, etc) the only thing I know of that comes close to a beam laser retribution is the coercer (more DPS on the targets, but is paper thin). With beam lasers you can kill an interceptor within 40km in seconds.
Flying a pulse laser retribution in small gangs is extremely fun. It will do over 200 dps. If a frigate or dictor gets too close to you it will die before it can warp out. The retribution is basically a mini-zealot and it is totally freaking awesome. If it recieved a boost it would be way too powerful.
My Rupture with two medium nos = you dead.
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:19:00 -
[43]
Look at how AFs are setup - high resists, large armor/shield buffer, low base speed. Why would you try to speed tank that?
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jackal79 The particular assault frigate I fly does not fit a MWD for antisupport fleet setup (unless your ******** and don't like being successful at your role in the fleet). Neither does a coercer in it's "standard" anti-support setups. Retri fits an AB, coercers fit a sensor booster for anti-support. Anything else is stupid.
MWDs are mandatory on all PvP ships, with the possible exception of stealth bombers (and only because fitting one is borderline impossible). This is for two reasons, neither of which have anything to do with speed tanking:
1) Getting back to the gate or out of the bubble if you run into a gatecamp.
2) Keeping the ability to dictate range, or keep your opponent from doing the same. Without an MWD, your opponent decides what range the fight happens at, and very often you end up screwed.
Yes, that means some ships, like the Retribution or Coercer, are not useful for PvP. The solution is to pick a different ship, not to stubbornly insist on the crippled ship.
Quote: And yes, when you are flying at 500 m/s and you have a 35m sig radius, cruiser size weapons have a hard time hitting you.
Even the slowest cruisers can hit 1500 m/s, giving them a 1000m/s closing speed. Since to do any useful damage with an AF you have to be fairly close to your target, you have only a few seconds before the cruiser gets into web range. And when you're flying at 50 m/s, that 35m sig radius isn't going to save you.
Quote: Speed tanking an assault frigate is stupid, because they are obviously not meant to speed tank with a MWD. Fit an AB II and hardners/SAR/plates for tank.
MWDs are for range control, and necessary on EVERY PVP SHIP, not just those that speed tank. An AB will not give you enough speed to do this.
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:31:00 -
[45]
I suppose BoB has strict fitting requirements on ships in their gangs for uniformity and such and requires MWDs on every ship. There are advantages to that.
But, keep in mind that BoB has been dominated the last several months (by a bunch of clowns no less). Maybe some things they're doing aren't the "only correct way" of doing them. I've killed countless BoB interceptors/dictors in my retribution over the past few weeks (not with this account). My setup seems to work for its intended purpose quite well.
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:48:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 26/12/2007 22:50:38
Originally by: Jackal79 I suppose BoB has strict fitting requirements on ships in their gangs for uniformity and such and requires MWDs on every ship. There are advantages to that.
It's not just BoB. It's good tactics, and if you look at any good PvP corp you'll see that all of their ships are fitting MWDs.
Quote: But, keep in mind that BoB has been dominated the last several months (by a bunch of clowns no less). Maybe some things they're doing aren't the "only correct way" of doing them.
Ignoring the absurdity of the "bunch of clowns" comment and avoiding getting into an argument over politics, BoB losses have much more to do with politics/logistics/etc than the specifics of ship setups. Remember, if you have superior numbers in a fight, it doesn't matter if your individual ships are inferior. But you'll find that all else being equal, the side that fits MWDs will massacre the side that does not. And this is true for ANY corp, BoB is hardly the only alliance with mandatory MWD rules.
Quote: I've killed countless BoB interceptors/dictors in my retribution over the past few weeks (not with this account). My setup seems to work for its intended purpose quite well.
Congratulations. But you'll notice the issue isn't "can AFs kill anything", it's "are AFs effective enough to justify flying them over other ships". The answer to the former is of course yes, the answer to the latter is hell no. Your claim of interceptor killing is silly, for two reasons:
1) Other ships can do the job just as well. You would have to try very hard to find a ship that can't kill anything, no matter how skilled the pilot or what mistakes the opponent makes. So saying you've scored kills in an AF is a pretty meaningless statement, and says next to nothing about how good the ship actually is.
2) Killing interceptors is far too narrow a role. When a ship isn't even the unquestioned master of a narrow role, limiting it to that role is a sign of a broken ship. The competition for the anti-interceptor role is often good at other things as well. The AF (and not even all AFs have even this small role!) is ONLY "good" for interceptor killing.
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Edriahn
Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.12.26 23:12:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Jackal79 I suppose BoB has strict fitting requirements on ships in their gangs for uniformity and such and requires MWDs on every ship. There are advantages to that.
But, keep in mind that BoB has been dominated the last several months (by a bunch of clowns no less). Maybe some things they're doing aren't the "only correct way" of doing them. I've killed countless BoB interceptors/dictors in my retribution over the past few weeks (not with this account). My setup seems to work for its intended purpose quite well.
Lol, trying to be mean? Bob or not it's a fact that many FCs don't allow their fleet members to fly without a MWD. Nowadays it's just a musthave. Fleet battles are different story, but there's no place for an AF. I'm not sure if I understand correctly, you fly an AF without a MWD? And what about battleships whch are faster than ya? Get real, please, every good fitted cruiser will melt an AF, they have enough tracking to catch a ship with 500m/s velocity. And an Intie will just run away and laugh at you, while tackling you and waiting for his buddies to kill ya. And a sniper ahc will melt you in a few seconds. Or a vaga, nanoishtar, deimos, for examle? Cruisers at least have the speed to run, but Af is just dead.
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2007.12.27 00:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Edriahn
Originally by: Jackal79 I suppose BoB has strict fitting requirements on ships in their gangs for uniformity and such and requires MWDs on every ship. There are advantages to that.
But, keep in mind that BoB has been dominated the last several months (by a bunch of clowns no less). Maybe some things they're doing aren't the "only correct way" of doing them. I've killed countless BoB interceptors/dictors in my retribution over the past few weeks (not with this account). My setup seems to work for its intended purpose quite well.
Lol, trying to be mean? Bob or not it's a fact that many FCs don't allow their fleet members to fly without a MWD. Nowadays it's just a musthave. Fleet battles are different story, but there's no place for an AF. I'm not sure if I understand correctly, you fly an AF without a MWD? And what about battleships whch are faster than ya? Get real, please, every good fitted cruiser will melt an AF, they have enough tracking to catch a ship with 500m/s velocity. And an Intie will just run away and laugh at you, while tackling you and waiting for his buddies to kill ya. And a sniper ahc will melt you in a few seconds. Or a vaga, nanoishtar, deimos, for examle? Cruisers at least have the speed to run, but Af is just dead.
It just doesn't work like that. You lock an inty that is trying to tackle a battleship 25km away. He starts taking fire and says "oh **** I'm dying". Then he either A) warps out or B) can't warp out because of lag and dies to your lasers. B) often happens.
I suppose a munnin or an eagle would be better at anti support, but they cost an order of magnitude more.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.12.27 05:40:00 -
[49]
I find this argument amusing, basically the crux of the matter is speed, if ccp just implements the suggested bonus to afterburners then af's would work wonders. also adding a webber rresist -25% would make them extremely viable as a class.
as it is now however, I find no reason to pilot one.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.27 06:22:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Xaen People actually use assault frigates?
I fly the Jaguar and Wolf a lot, and I'm thinking of starting up with the Ishkur as well.
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.27 08:21:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Xaen People actually use assault frigates?
I fly the Jaguar and Wolf a lot, and I'm thinking of starting up with the Ishkur as well.
Im sure there are people that fly the procurer too.
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Niffetin
Gallente CONsordium Infinate
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Posted - 2007.12.27 08:36:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Niffetin on 27/12/2007 08:36:43
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Xaen People actually use assault frigates?
I fly the Jaguar and Wolf a lot, and I'm thinking of starting up with the Ishkur as well.
I like the Jaguar a lot. I fly it every now and then myself and it's fun to fly and NOWHERE near as slow as people let others believe in here.
And the Retribution, considering the fact that it can easilly kill 2 Sabres alone for example.
No ship under Interdictor class can kill a Retribution in 1on1. Retribution is a must have ship for Frigate roaming gangs, just insane DPS and tank for a Frig.
WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor |
Delichon
Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar
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Posted - 2007.12.27 08:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Niffetin Edited by: Niffetin on 27/12/2007 08:36:43
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Xaen People actually use assault frigates?
I fly the Jaguar and Wolf a lot, and I'm thinking of starting up with the Ishkur as well.
I like the Jaguar a lot. I fly it every now and then myself and it's fun to fly and NOWHERE near as slow as people let others believe in here.
And the Retribution, considering the fact that it can easilly kill 2 Sabres alone for example.
No ship under Interdictor class can kill a Retribution in 1on1. Retribution is a must have ship for Frigate roaming gangs, just insane DPS and tank for a Frig.
Sorry, you are not allowed to post cleverly on EVE-forums OR to discuss real PVP tactics, other than "Blob" and "Capital blob". Things like wolfpacks, stealth gangs and so on do not exist. Eve combat is F1-F8 => compare tank and gank => win or lose - in this world AF frigs are useless and dumb.
------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. Next time they are going to nerf you directly. Eve Forums. |
Teyrala
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.12.27 09:07:00 -
[54]
AFs were taken out of the game?
Can't say I ever noticed, I use my ishkur regularly.
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Trigos Trilobi
Man-Eating Village Idiots
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Posted - 2007.12.27 10:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Even the slowest cruisers can hit 1500 m/s, giving them a 1000m/s closing speed. Since to do any useful damage with an AF you have to be fairly close to your target, you have only a few seconds before the cruiser gets into web range. And when you're flying at 50 m/s, that 35m sig radius isn't going to save you.
Actually if you run the numbers on tracking you'll notice that say a jag running webbed at ~80m/s in close orbit will be nigh invulnerable to cruiser sized guns. If you toss in a tracking disruptor you don't even need to get quite as close. The problems will be getting close enough tho if you get webbed right at the max web range, especially since even if you counterweb, the mwd'd cruiser is faster. Another problem is that you'd need to double web the cruiser or it can just mwd away and you can't orbit since you're slower.
In this light I think total web immunity will be bit over the top and instead some combination of partial web immunity, increased ab speed and lowered mass would be the way to go along with the legendary Fourth Bonus.
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.27 10:29:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Flurren on 27/12/2007 10:29:42
Originally by: Delichon
Originally by: Niffetin Edited by: Niffetin on 27/12/2007 08:36:43
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Xaen People actually use assault frigates?
I fly the Jaguar and Wolf a lot, and I'm thinking of starting up with the Ishkur as well.
I like the Jaguar a lot. I fly it every now and then myself and it's fun to fly and NOWHERE near as slow as people let others believe in here.
And the Retribution, considering the fact that it can easilly kill 2 Sabres alone for example.
No ship under Interdictor class can kill a Retribution in 1on1. Retribution is a must have ship for Frigate roaming gangs, just insane DPS and tank for a Frig.
Sorry, you are not allowed to post cleverly on EVE-forums OR to discuss real PVP tactics, other than "Blob" and "Capital blob". Things like wolfpacks, stealth gangs and so on do not exist. Eve combat is F1-F8 => compare tank and gank => win or lose - in this world AF frigs are useless and dumb.
Rofl, "My retribution can easily kill 2 interdictors" is not a clever or logical pvp tactical debate. Its what we call a blanket statement with no backup or reasoning based totally on anecdotal evidence (and probably not even that).
Surely even you can see the "slight" difference between these two things?
And about wolf packs, let me put it this way - what wins in a fight, 10 ruptures or 10 wolfs? If you even have to think about the answer there isnt much hope for you.
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.27 10:31:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Even the slowest cruisers can hit 1500 m/s, giving them a 1000m/s closing speed. Since to do any useful damage with an AF you have to be fairly close to your target, you have only a few seconds before the cruiser gets into web range. And when you're flying at 50 m/s, that 35m sig radius isn't going to save you.
Actually if you run the numbers on tracking you'll notice that say a jag running webbed at ~80m/s in close orbit will be nigh invulnerable to cruiser sized guns. If you toss in a tracking disruptor you don't even need to get quite as close. The problems will be getting close enough tho if you get webbed right at the max web range, especially since even if you counterweb, the mwd'd cruiser is faster. Another problem is that you'd need to double web the cruiser or it can just mwd away and you can't orbit since you're slower.
In this light I think total web immunity will be bit over the top and instead some combination of partial web immunity, increased ab speed and lowered mass would be the way to go along with the legendary Fourth Bonus.
QFT doesnt even come close to how spot on you are with this post.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.27 10:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Flurren
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Xaen People actually use assault frigates?
I fly the Jaguar and Wolf a lot, and I'm thinking of starting up with the Ishkur as well.
Im sure there are people that fly the procurer too.
Somewhat unrelated to the topic at hand, but I'm going to make a guess. You're one of those people who think the only thing a destroyer is good for is salvaging, right?
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.27 10:47:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 27/12/2007 10:50:28
Originally by: Flurren
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Even the slowest cruisers can hit 1500 m/s, giving them a 1000m/s closing speed. Since to do any useful damage with an AF you have to be fairly close to your target, you have only a few seconds before the cruiser gets into web range. And when you're flying at 50 m/s, that 35m sig radius isn't going to save you.
Actually if you run the numbers on tracking you'll notice that say a jag running webbed at ~80m/s in close orbit will be nigh invulnerable to cruiser sized guns. If you toss in a tracking disruptor you don't even need to get quite as close. The problems will be getting close enough tho if you get webbed right at the max web range, especially since even if you counterweb, the mwd'd cruiser is faster. Another problem is that you'd need to double web the cruiser or it can just mwd away and you can't orbit since you're slower.
QFT doesnt even come close to how spot on you are with this post.
Spot on, if you don't know about a little feature in EVE called "manual piloting". Maybe if all you know is "approach" and "orbit at optimal", you won't hit it. But in a ship with a speed advantage, all you have to do is fly manually and you can drop their transversal considerably. The best-case scenario is the AF pilot is able to catch the cruiser at the right moment in his turn, slip out of web range, and warp off. But unless the AF pilot wants to disengage, there's nothing he can do to keep decent transversal.
And that's ignoring the problem of getting into close orbit in the first place, against a ship with a speed advantage.
Quote:
Sorry, you are not allowed to post cleverly on EVE-forums OR to discuss real PVP tactics, other than "Blob" and "Capital blob". Things like wolfpacks, stealth gangs and so on do not exist. Eve combat is F1-F8 => compare tank and gank => win or lose - in this world AF frigs are useless and dumb.
Stealth gangs? Since, you know, AFs can actually be useful with cloaking devices...
Wolfpacks? Do you even know what a wolfpack is? The whole point of using smaller ships is because of their speed. Since AFs are slower than cruisers, they're terrible wolfpack ships. If that's what you want, get some interceptors.
Obviously there's more to EVE than sniper blobs. The problem is AFs aren't good in any of those situations either.
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Trigos Trilobi
Man-Eating Village Idiots
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Posted - 2007.12.27 11:30:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 27/12/2007 10:50:28
Originally by: Flurren
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Even the slowest cruisers can hit 1500 m/s, giving them a 1000m/s closing speed. Since to do any useful damage with an AF you have to be fairly close to your target, you have only a few seconds before the cruiser gets into web range. And when you're flying at 50 m/s, that 35m sig radius isn't going to save you.
Actually if you run the numbers on tracking you'll notice that say a jag running webbed at ~80m/s in close orbit will be nigh invulnerable to cruiser sized guns. If you toss in a tracking disruptor you don't even need to get quite as close. The problems will be getting close enough tho if you get webbed right at the max web range, especially since even if you counterweb, the mwd'd cruiser is faster. Another problem is that you'd need to double web the cruiser or it can just mwd away and you can't orbit since you're slower.
QFT doesnt even come close to how spot on you are with this post.
Spot on, if you don't know about a little feature in EVE called "manual piloting". Maybe if all you know is "approach" and "orbit at optimal", you won't hit it. But in a ship with a speed advantage, all you have to do is fly manually and you can drop their transversal considerably. The best-case scenario is the AF pilot is able to catch the cruiser at the right moment in his turn, slip out of web range, and warp off. But unless the AF pilot wants to disengage, there's nothing he can do to keep decent transversal.
And that's ignoring the problem of getting into close orbit in the first place, against a ship with a speed advantage.
That's exactly why I said you'd need to double web the cruiser, I am fairly well aware that you can't control transversal unless you have a speed advantage. The whole first block was more of a preface for my argument that complete web immunity might be too much since in ideal conditions you can already be very hard to track even with 10% of the speed you'd have with the immunity. Another thing is that i personally think the whole webbing system needs an overhaul and as such it might not be wise to 'build on it' by adding any more web related bonuses.
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