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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
NetheranE
Error-404
8
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Posted - 2012.02.10 13:20:00 -
[241] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:NetheranE wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:War Kitten wrote: When other members of CSM7 that play the game in discord with your world views on what is the right way to pvp disagree with your ideas about changes to high sec or lowsec rules and have alternate ideas, how will you react? And when it comes time to discuss sov warfare and super-cap re-balancing, will you have any more useful input than the naive "remove supers" response?
I don't think "PvP" is appropriate behavior for a CSM member to be engaging in with other council members. I agree with the decision made by the previous CSM members to cooperate and work as a team when serving as a voice for the players. In-fighting within the council does not send a message of strength and compromises the integrity of the council and the ability it has to protect the interests of the players. *snip* If you're stating that a ceasefire between all CSM members be called while they are on the board, you're potentially stepping into the way people play. These people have volunteered (you included) to represent the community, not to sacrifice your enjoyment of the game for it. If you begin to lose enjoyment for EVE while trying to represent the people in it, i'd like to stand up then and say something is wrong here and we need to make sure you enjoy the game. How can you fairly represent something you're not enjoying? I think that these select few should be even more open to PvP, and especially with each other. You essentially have a small group that is constantly in communication with each other, who have been voted by a large number of the community to represent them and their concerns. That right there, THAT opportunity screams to me that you should almost seek to engage each other in PvP. You're essentially surrounded with what could potentially be labelled as the most experienced/preferred representative for a particular form of PvP (or PvE *cough*)! Why would you dare pass up that kind of chance to learn from them? If "infighting" occurs over the due course of PvP, i would look to reconsider the rager's place on the CSM. Rage is a natural product of EVE PvP in a way, but if it starts causing rifts in our representatives because one of you popped/"jew'ed"/backstabbed the other? Get lost mate, I dont need to represent me in EVE (one of the most cutthroat MMOs out there) if you can't reconcile losing something to someone who could very easily be better than you in a vast majority of ways. Not that I'm denying you may have a point. Yet, if you're point actually has application, i'd immediately question why that person found a place on CSM (unless they're a carebear rep and got blown up, then i'd harvest his tears joyfully). I think you misunderstood what he meant by "PVP" with the little quotes around it. I took it to mean fighting amongst the CSM members on the council, not actual PvP, ship vs. ship, combat in the game. Hans - thanks for your answers, I like what you had to say there and it alleviates my concerns.
This I'd need clarified by the OP, as the message I got was something rather disturbing.
If he meant CSM members should put their differences aside, I'd ask why that wasnt a prerequisite to growing some balls and/or getting a spot on CSM.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
525
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Posted - 2012.02.10 13:39:00 -
[242] - Quote
NetheranE wrote:War Kitten wrote:I think you misunderstood what he meant by "PVP" with the little quotes around it.
I took it to mean fighting amongst the CSM members on the council, not actual PvP, ship vs. ship, combat in the game.
Hans - thanks for your answers, I like what you had to say there and it alleviates my concerns. This I'd need clarified by the OP, as the message I got was something rather disturbing. If he meant CSM members should put their differences aside, I'd ask why that wasnt a prerequisite to growing some balls and/or getting a spot on CSM.
Fair enough, it's his words to clarify.
I still think you mis-read the air-quotes and then read a WHOLE lot into that mistake though. His answer was perfectly in context with my questions, so it made sense to me. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
NetheranE
Error-404
8
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Posted - 2012.02.10 14:03:00 -
[243] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:NetheranE wrote:War Kitten wrote:I think you misunderstood what he meant by "PVP" with the little quotes around it.
I took it to mean fighting amongst the CSM members on the council, not actual PvP, ship vs. ship, combat in the game.
Hans - thanks for your answers, I like what you had to say there and it alleviates my concerns. This I'd need clarified by the OP, as the message I got was something rather disturbing. If he meant CSM members should put their differences aside, I'd ask why that wasnt a prerequisite to growing some balls and/or getting a spot on CSM. Fair enough, it's his words to clarify. I still think you mis-read the air-quotes and then read a WHOLE lot into that mistake though. His answer was perfectly in context with my questions, so it made sense to me.
Deciding I should read what I was looking at before posting, I also recognise I should probably keep my mouth shut at 6:00am...
I'll still stand by what I said at the end. If the answer to your question isnt obvious, then something is wrong. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
505
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Posted - 2012.02.10 15:16:00 -
[244] - Quote
Joyitii, Rel'k Bloodlor: Calm your boiling wits. I'm not demanding that he answer me immediately, but I did ask a number of pointed and crucial questions that directly affect to those he claims to be his preferred constituency (hisec), whether or not they are interested in getting into PVP; he directly and indirectly completely evaded these questions. I put down multiple posts because I was responding to others' and had more questions, not because I'm impatient. I'm perfectly willing to give him another chance to answer. It's a Gorram forum, mate. Chill out.
Netheran, Hans, War Kitten: Obviously it is completely crucial to act as a rational adult and put aside your differences when working together on the CSM. What seems to be missing in your discussion is the fact that we are not yet CSM members, and CCP asks for a limited number of representatives for a reason. Some people are going to be more suitable and wiser than others, and there is absolutely no reason why they cannot argue amongst each other to clarify their ideals and weed out the trolls and the ones who are only there for a specific agenda.
In the eventuality that someone feels the need to withdraw from the race, it should be important that they know who to direct their voters to, that will be able to answer their concerns the most directly and be the most effective possible member of the group. Representing experience and reason in CSM 7 |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
526
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Posted - 2012.02.10 15:17:00 -
[245] - Quote
NetheranE wrote:I'll still stand by what I said at the end. If the answer to your question isnt obvious, then something is wrong.
I agree, the "correct" answer is obvious, and it would be nice if somehow it could be a prerequisite to CSM membership. But short of observing a candidate in such a situation, asking the question and seeing how they respond is the next best thing.
I wasn't seeking the right answer, I wanted to read Hans' answer and see how much thought he put into the response.
Think of it as analogous to when a teacher asks you to show your work in school. They know the answer, they want to see how *you* arrived at it.
This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
505
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Posted - 2012.02.10 15:31:00 -
[246] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:NetheranE wrote:I'll still stand by what I said at the end. If the answer to your question isnt obvious, then something is wrong. I agree, the "correct" answer is obvious, and it would be nice if somehow it could be a prerequisite to CSM membership. But short of observing a candidate in such a situation, asking the question and seeing how they respond is the next best thing. I wasn't seeking the right answer, I wanted to read Hans' answer and see how much thought he put into the response. Think of it as analogous to when a teacher asks you to show your work in school. They know the answer, they want to see how *you* arrived at it. This exactly, well put. I am looking to see how Hans thinks about and analyzes things, and so far I am not seeing much, and I'm having concerns with his knowledge of hisec mechanics -- the area of the game where there are more complications and caveats to the way things work than anywhere else, and where the significant majority of EVE's population resides.
I'm pretty sure I'd know these mechanics inside out at the bottom of a lake. Hans, the ball is in your court. Representing experience and reason in CSM 7 |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1170
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Posted - 2012.02.10 15:45:00 -
[247] - Quote
War Kitten wrote: I think you misunderstood what he meant by "PVP" with the little quotes around it.
I took it to mean fighting amongst the CSM members on the council, not actual PvP, ship vs. ship, combat in the game.
Real briefly while I have a break, this is correct. I think debate should certainly occur among council members, but when it comes to proposing an idea to CCP, the more unanimous the support of the council the more effective the proposal will be at convincing the developers it is for the good of the entire game. This is one of the founding principles of the CSM is that its members work for the good of all players, not for those that enjoy one activity in particular such as high sec PvP, Faction Warfare, or 0.0 sov takeovers. That doesnGÇÖt mean any of us shouldnGÇÖt have values we defend, but compromise and teamwork is essential to actually accomplishing anything as a council.
As for PvP on Tranquility among council members, I have no problem with that! It's one of the many activities I love, I think itGÇÖs completely possible to show respect to fellow council members and work cooperatively without it getting in the way of in-game pew pew. This is evidenced by the enormous voting support I have been receiving from the factions I continue to PvP against throughout the campaign.
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The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3195
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:05:00 -
[248] - Quote
In general, by virtue of sharing a chat channel 23/7 on Skype, even opposites such as Trebor and myself end up getting along. The shared misery of warring against ~virtual goods~ may have had something to do with it, but I suspect the Skype concept is one of the major reasons why CSM6 was relentlessly on-message and coordinated compared to past CSMs.
(you're welcome)
But it's election season, you're all supposed to be tearing each others throats out, compromising and being chill is something that happens after you win. The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
150
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:32:00 -
[249] - Quote
I endorse this canidate |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
68
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Posted - 2012.02.10 19:01:00 -
[250] - Quote
This is an official post resisting the Goon meta-campaign of pushing ACTUAL candidates off of front page. <3 Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
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Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:01:00 -
[251] - Quote
Having read the whole Manifesto thingy:
Nice.
Last time I voted for The Mittani so he could kick CCP with kindness, this time I get to vote where my interests are, cool stuff for people who don't partake in the endless 0.0 merry-go-round of backstabbing and being a cog / lemming / body in space for the next CTA. |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:03:00 -
[252] - Quote
Largo Coronet wrote:He meant to say he wants to like like a banana.
Spam, please ignore. |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:14:00 -
[253] - Quote
quote=Lyris Nairn]Hello space friends.
Please, won't you join me by the fire?
[/quote]
More Spam, please ignore |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:20:00 -
[254] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:Mister Conley, it is a pleasure
o7 o7 o7 o7 o7
Spam, spam and double spam.
I will fight for my prefered candidate even if it entails getting my hands dirty tossing spam back. I really hate politics, by the way. |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:25:00 -
[255] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:A vote for MB3 is a vote for drunken semi-naked Rock Band playing
Spam, more spam. Spamgames. |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
125
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:41:00 -
[256] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:This is an official post resisting the Goon meta-campaign of pushing ACTUAL candidates off of front page. <3
Surrogates fighting other surrogates. This is truly lolzworthy. Enjoying my popcorn Apparently, once you create a sig. You can't completely delete it. So this is my sig...for now. |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:41:00 -
[257] - Quote
Another helping of spam, don't you love the smell of spam in the morning? |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:47:00 -
[258] - Quote
Osabojo wrote:I will support you as well as or better than the bra you discarded.
Spam enough for everyone. |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 20:56:00 -
[259] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Posting a badger song in another Lyris Nairn attention seeking thread. Thank you for your support!
Batten down the hatches, spam incomming. |
Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 21:00:00 -
[260] - Quote
Snipped for your convenience, please note that all these posts are counterspam to decrease spam effectiveness. |
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Kaver Linkovir
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.02.10 21:05:00 -
[261] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:I am so sorry for what became of your son ma'am.
What is that there over yonder, why it's a fresh batch of spam, how quaint. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1189
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Posted - 2012.02.10 21:08:00 -
[262] - Quote
Kaver Linkovir wrote:Another helping of spam, don't you love the smell of spam in the morning?
Hahahaha ease up there, Kaver. Lyris is my Internet Space Friend!
I appreciate your enthusiasm, however.
Now back to our regularly scheduled spam-free broadcasting... |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
593
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Posted - 2012.02.10 21:13:00 -
[263] - Quote
Hey, Hans, you might wanna check this out. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1189
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Posted - 2012.02.10 21:24:00 -
[264] - Quote
I'm fully aware of the election procedures, but I do appreciate the friendly reminder, bro! . My paper should be here in the next day or two. |
Sasha Deren
Oxide Interstellar Associates
0
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Posted - 2012.02.10 22:24:00 -
[265] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I'm fully aware of the election procedures, but I do appreciate the friendly reminder, bro! . My paper should be here in the next day or two.
Phew, you had me worried there for a second!
Excellent candidate manifesto and a throughly enjoyable, thought provoking, read. +1 likes, a bump and a pledge to vote for you in the upcoming election.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1191
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Posted - 2012.02.10 23:30:00 -
[266] - Quote
Sasha Deren wrote: Excellent candidate manifesto and a throughly enjoyable, thought provoking, read. +1 likes, a bump and a pledge to vote for you in the upcoming election.
Thanks for taking the time to read my material and get to know me! I appreciate your support. Keep in touch.... |
Aidan Padecain
Almsivi Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2012.02.11 02:39:00 -
[267] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:...it's election season, you're all supposed to be tearing each others throats out, compromising and being chill is something that happens after you win.
Washington missed this memo. I'm pretty sure bands of Democrat and Republican House members roam around K street after dark, looking fo opposition blood. But hell, maybe if the CSM election is as cut-throat and entertaining as the GOP primary, voter turn-out will go up. Then again? |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
657
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Posted - 2012.02.11 04:20:00 -
[268] - Quote
Anytime you've got a minute to actually answer my questions, that would be fantastic.
Since it has been quite a while now, though, maybe you could just tell me that you aren't planning to answer them. That would help a lot. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1206
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Posted - 2012.02.11 04:28:00 -
[269] - Quote
Hello Iam!
Happy to answer your questions. I'm having to work late today, and your questions came right as I went to bed last night.
I won't avoid any question in this campaign. If there's a delay, as I said in my blog, its because of having to take care of some RL issues. Now that the weekend's arrived, I should be more free throughout the daytime and be able to give more timely responses.
I'll get back to you as soon as I can, appreciate your patience.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
713
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Posted - 2012.02.11 07:01:00 -
[270] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: IGÇÖll pick on Seleene this round,
Based on everything I've read in your platform, I think we'd agree on much more than we disagree on. At the least, I'm sure bridges could be built, but this is campaign season so let's do this!
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: though by the election I'm sure I'll have something to say about all my opponents in the race (thats how these things work). Seleene is most certainly an EvE veteran, to the core - serving in all three capacities: As a player, as a CSM, and as a CCP developer. The problem is, he's still speaking about issues that he clearly doesn't understand. Take some of his recent responses to a questionnaire: "I think that FW and null-sec sov could, and probably should, have some commonalities with regard to capture mechanics" "Any proper iteration on FW is going to require a fundamental re-work of how players interact with NPC factions." Seriously?? If I were Seleene, and wasn't particularly active in Faction Warfare, I would decline to comment rather than just make statements that show a clear lack of understanding about the players that engage in that activity.
Well, I guess one way to explain my opinion on this is, seeing as how I sat right next to CCP Greyscale when FW was being implemented (he did most of the work on it), I think I've got a fair handle on where FW was supposed to end up versus what it's languished as over the years. It's really one of the great tragedies of EVE what a step-child FW has been. That being said, you've singled out two statements so let's look at them.
The first is a pretty general answer / opinion and I made it because of the way that game mechanics tend to evolve. My answer was made because I believe it reflected what is most likely to take place and how I believe we'll get the most bang for our buck so to speak. It's highly doubtful that you are going to see CCP invest significant resources into improving two completely different, parallel territory systems. They are going to look for ways to use their resources most efficiently so it only makes sense that as they finally start to iterate on FW that those guys will also be involved in peer review of any null-sec sov changes and vice-versa.
As for the second statement you quoted, I can't really see how or why you wouldn't want improved NPC interactions in FW. I mean, do you want the way you deal with the NPC Empires to remain exactly as they are now? Don't you want those opportunities and processes to evolve and improve? v0v Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
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