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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.17 22:00:00 -
[1]
Does anyone ever use these things anymore?
Maybe they need some lovin'.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2004.03.17 22:03:00 -
[2]
Not since they got nerfed
might aswell tear the capacitor out of a ship, rather then use one these days _______________________________________________
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.03.17 22:59:00 -
[3]
Yes they do take a lot of cap.
You just have to determine if the cap usage (roughly 20 cap/sec) is worth the benefits of +25% to all resistances. Dont get too happy about the 25%, because it only translates into about +15% at most for the base shield thermal and kinetic resistance, and only a few percentage points for explosive. You'd still have to use an EM hardener,which in combination with a multispectral only gives 56% or so to the EM resistance. In my view, the resistance increase aren't really worth it, given the cap use. If you use an XL booster, your cap goes down way faster if you got an multispectral on.
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.03.17 23:09:00 -
[4]
They recycle for some good minerals, don't they?
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James McGowen
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Posted - 2004.03.17 23:19:00 -
[5]
I have two v-m15 braced multispec shields in my hanger. Still packaged. Does that say anything? ----------------------------------------
"To err is human"
To really foul up requires a computer. |
dalman
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Posted - 2004.03.17 23:43:00 -
[6]
Seen 1 or 2 miners that are trying to learn combat use them on chaos. Other than that? No.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Cirle
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Posted - 2004.03.18 01:03:00 -
[7]
It raises the other question of whether anyone actually uses any of the passive shield hardners as well, to which I believe the answer is 'no'?
If so, how about sorting them so that they become viable modules as well as the multi-spectral (I can not think of a way which doesn't just mean people switch to using them, but there are bound to be useful suggestions somewhere).
Cirle |
Cabaeran
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Posted - 2004.03.18 01:45:00 -
[8]
I'll throw another module int the pot...
Afterburners? Anyone use those once they can use MWDs? Apart of course indies, and then those that are squeezing 100MN afterburners on cruisers? I know mine are just collecting dust.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2004.03.18 02:17:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kashre on 18/03/2004 02:18:39 I use an afterburner on my battleship sometimes, strictly when hunting NPCs. It's useless for combat, but it's a lot less anoying to collect loot cans at 250m/s than it is 187m/s. And I know I could do it faster with a MWD, but Im not willing to suffer the cap/shield penalties of a MWD while Im fighting. With this new toggle-online/offline feature I might try it... but probably not. +++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.18 02:19:00 -
[10]
Quote: I'll throw another module int the pot...
Afterburners? Anyone use those once they can use MWDs? Apart of course indies, and then those that are squeezing 100MN afterburners on cruisers? I know mine are just collecting dust.
I actually use a Cold-Gas AB on my Ares interceptor instead of a MWD. 950m/s forever without hardly touching my cap and not having the shield loss is a very good thing. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . ) |
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:14:00 -
[11]
Quote: Worrying about the shield on a frig is useless.
The cap, on the other hand... ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . ) |
ZelRox
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:14:00 -
[12]
Worrying about the shield on a frig is useless. ----------------------
I wanna tuc tuc .. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:26:00 -
[13]
I would bump them back up to 40% again, or reduce the cap they use by a lot.
With the current stacking penalty, they add very little resistance, yet they use a tremendous amount of energy. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.03.18 05:00:00 -
[14]
I think multispectral hardeners should be balanced so that they are viable modules to use on ships with few meds, in turn by sacrificing cap. On ships with lots of meds you would still use specific because you would conserve cap, but trade in a med or two for that. So the logical thing would be upping the multis to 50% but keeping the cap imo...
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Vacuole
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Posted - 2004.03.18 05:16:00 -
[15]
Man.. when they got nerfed.. what a crappy day for me.
I had just found one NPC'ing one day, and the very next day was patch day, and suddenly they went from one of the most sought-after modules in game to total crap, never to be used again.
I definetly think they need a little bit of lovin.. maybe 35% across the board ad reduce the cap feast a LITTLE BIT.. just a little is all.. :)
But ya, they recycle damn good. :)
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.18 09:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Siddy on 18/03/2004 09:37:49
Quote: Seen 1 or 2 miners that are trying to learn combat use them on chaos. Other than that? No.
u cant learn combat on chaos...
u need TQ experience
the fear facktor - nerve control and stay cool under tremendusly bad odds of suviving and remebering all things u learned and be creative all the time
u cant learn that on chaos -------------------------------------------
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.03.18 09:45:00 -
[17]
Quote: Edited by: Siddy on 18/03/2004 09:37:49
Quote: Seen 1 or 2 miners that are trying to learn combat use them on chaos. Other than that? No.
u cant learn combat on chaos...
u need TQ experience
the fear facktor - nerve control and stay cool under tremendusly bad odds of suviving and remebering all things u learned and be creative all the time
u cant learn that on chaos
Of course you can't.
But, you know... the miners... The ones that think you need a battleship for combat. So they mine their asses off until they can buy a battleship. Then fit it with shield power relays, ECM bursts and small guns. Then head out into 0.4 space where they run into a lonely blackbird and dies.
Then there are those that think a bit further... And decide to go onto chaos and try things first.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.18 11:30:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Quote: Edited by: Siddy on 18/03/2004 09:37:49
Quote: Seen 1 or 2 miners that are trying to learn combat use them on chaos. Other than that? No.
u cant learn combat on chaos...
u need TQ experience
the fear facktor - nerve control and stay cool under tremendusly bad odds of suviving and remebering all things u learned and be creative all the time
u cant learn that on chaos
Of course you can't.
But, you know... the miners... The ones that think you need a battleship for combat. So they mine their asses off until they can buy a battleship. Then fit it with shield power relays, ECM bursts and small guns. Then head out into 0.4 space where they run into a lonely blackbird and dies.
Then there are those that think a bit further... And decide to go onto chaos and try things first.
LoL
-------------------------------------------
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.03.18 12:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ruffles on 18/03/2004 12:02:31 IMO the original passive hardeners were a better idea. The straight + percentages in those cases was never going to get you full resistances to all types of damage.
MO of course, but the problem is the same for all other areas where they introduced big modules active alternatives as much as anything else. +50% resist was going to be abused, and easily configured a ship to be imune to everything where as it would have been very hard to make that same ship imune to everything, even one damage type, with the passive alternatives. +25% to all was obviously too much, where as now its a lot lower and probably fairer, but the power drain is just not practical.
Much like +50% sensor boosters really quite negate the battleship locktime native penalties, etc. The +10-15% low slot alternative is not that useful in comparison except perhaps for some cruisers and gank-shooting configurations.
Whilst it all works work now, the changes have made the passive equivalents nothing more then recyclables, and the changes pretty much based soley around the active +50% alternatives.
TBH, if the passives still added the percentage they state, they might be more meaningful, but still a +10% EM med module passive or a +50% active med module, and I am pretty sure we all know which is going to be used.
The cost/benefit analysis makes these modules pretty much useless I am sorry to say now.
Just MO of course
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.03.18 13:18:00 -
[20]
The t2 versions lookish ok maybe the t3 versions will be useful |
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Cirle
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Posted - 2004.03.18 14:20:00 -
[21]
Quote: TBH, if the passives still added the percentage they state, they might be more meaningful, but still a +10% EM med module passive or a +50% active med module, and I am pretty sure we all know which is going to be used.
Yup, adding to the base resistance rather than the difference might tip the balance; which means that you could tank explosive damage to 100% protection, but is that really an issue against anything except some potential npc which only uses explosive (which would be silly). In practice you would just work out the cut off point where the 50% differential boost would be less than a 20% base increase, and stack that way, but at least the modules would be used.
What might be interesting would be a 10/15% multi damage passive hardner, to increase your overall base, or combined hardner types. None of which addresses the issue you note, which is 50% of something will almost always win when compared with 15%, as the ~2 cap a second is not that much of a drain compared to reducing the damage by half to a third.
Cirle |
Chelsea rorec
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Posted - 2004.03.18 17:00:00 -
[22]
I have to admit i used a multi on my armaggedon when mining in low sec space..i could run 7 miners2's and the hardner without it draining my cap to much. But after this i will be looking into alternatives.
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.03.18 17:15:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Quote: Worrying about the shield on a frig is useless.
The cap, on the other hand...
Good skills and a cap power relay, and I can run the MWD forever on my Crow.
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Cirle
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Posted - 2004.03.18 17:52:00 -
[24]
Curious, is there actually a defined pattern to the tech II upgrade requirements and bonuses?
The tech II multi looks like it uses 10 less cap (40 every 2.5s) and gives a 30% bonus to all resistances, which means by tech IV or V it might be even more useful. However, things like the ABs needed more cap on the upgrade? Hmmmm.
Cirle |
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