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Sovarin
Caldari The Black Ops Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.28 14:26:00 -
[1]
Anyone know the base build cost that they will be once completed? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.28 14:52:00 -
[2]
Check this thread.
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Sovarin
Caldari The Black Ops Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.28 15:21:00 -
[3]
Thanks Rob! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 15:58:00 -
[4]
Regardless of their cost I know I will be purchasing one.
Lots of people think that right now they're not worth their cost because you can just use a dread/carrier to accomplish th same tasks at a fraction of the cost.
Here's how I see it: They are always going to cost a lot. But people will refuse their usage because their dreads and carriers handle the job as it is. But I think CCP will boost the jump freighters even more, whether it's increasing their stats, or decreasing the stats of dreads/carriers.
I know I want one, and when everyone realizes that nothing else will compare for hauling in 0.0 (unless you're some kind of expert blockade runner and don't mind the risk involved) everyone is will want one too. But by then the demand will be up much higher and supply will still be very slow to meet demands.
Get them at 10b while you can, it's only going to go up.
CCP will make sure that we use these. You can count on it.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.28 17:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Riethe Get them at 10b while you can, it's only going to go up.
If they are foolish enough to listen to this advice then they are a prime candidate for you to sell your worthless shares to as well.
Tanking Setups Compared
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 17:50:00 -
[6]
You forgot to say why it's foolish.
CCP will make the jump freighter the sole hauler for 0.0 logistics. If they have to take away your carriers and dreads just to get you to use it, they will.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Riethe You forgot to say why it's foolish.
CCP will make the jump freighter the sole hauler for 0.0 logistics. If they have to take away your carriers and dreads just to get you to use it, they will.
I don't have any carriers or dreads for them to take away from me.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:14:00 -
[8]
You also don't haul or run logistics to 0.0, or that's the impression I get based on your response to the 100mil thread. I could be wrong.
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Riethe You forgot to say why it's foolish.
CCP will make the jump freighter the sole hauler for 0.0 logistics. If they have to take away your carriers and dreads just to get you to use it, they will.
I don't have any carriers or dreads for them to take away from me.
After reading the above thread I could feasibly see jump freighters hitting 10b within the next year. Right now the cost is 6-7b estimated from the thread above. Considering the amount of risk involved I don't think a 1-2b isk profit is unreasonable.
What's really going to define it is what the first builders sell there's at. (of which most will probably keep one of the first ships they build)
Also with the added demand of these monstrous ships base materials are going to rise also which will make the jf's cost even more.
If you could get one for 8b now that would probably be a reasonable deal, but not 10b.
It's better then Quafe! |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Riethe I could be wrong.
Indeed.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.12.28 19:26:00 -
[11]
I have 3 issues with Riethe's 10B prediction:
- They aren't going to nerf Carrier or Dread's direct hauling capacity. If they take away cargo space then they can't be affectively used in combat.
- They might prevent freighters from carrying charges in a carrier which would hurt their ability to haul raw materials but that was already pretty limited.
- Rorquals. A cargo expanded rorqual can directly transport quite a lot and this is its intended purpose. It can't manage quite as much as a jump freighter but it has a vastly superior tank and only costs 2B.
For small stuff Carriers and Dreads will continue to work and for big commercial hauling the Rorqual -at a much lower price point and vastly higher survivability- will be the favorite. There are uses for the Jump Freighters and some people will buy them but unless they drop to twice the price of a Rorqual you aren't going to see a lot of them and given the number of people buying Freighter BPO's I suspect the market will be heavily saturated at 7B. ___________________________________________ 5% Mining Implants & 5% Manufacturing Implants *From 110M to 150M |
Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.12.28 20:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Riethe Get them at 10b while you can, it's only going to go up.
I wouldn't be so sure of that.
I believe CCP announced that they were looking into the JFs and were going to be lowering their costs in Trinity 1.1.
This is CCP of course so they could well just go and make them more expensive, but that's the current word on the street, as it were. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:04:00 -
[13]
Firstly - the only things I've 'seen' from CCP on the subject are:
1) That they may look to increasing the number of runs on the Invented BPC, so that the various decryptors have an effect, which would lower the initial invention cost. Personally I don't think this a good idea. I don't see this as the bottleneck and there are plenty of people willing to produce 1 x BPC per month from an Obelisk BPO.
2) The main reason for the apparent high cost of building is the cost of the T2 Components. And CCP have also intimated that they would look at the supply of these where there might be genuine bottlenecks - cf the Dysprosium market. More so than the start of invention, this single event has increased the potential profits of Moon Miners and made this a much more viable occupation. However, there was a massive price rise in the T2 Components at patch-point and I do not yet think this has stabilised. Prices are indeed a simple factor of supply and demand, and in this case there might indeed be some limits on supply - given, of course, that we are in an artificial construct.
I have a 'little spreadsheet' (who doesn't!) and the cost of actually building an Anshar (for example) is very close to 4b for me (and that's with buying a lot of bits). The cost of invention is between 600k to 1b, perhaps a little more.
On that basis I'd give todays minimum price at about 5b.
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Algorithm 5
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2007.12.29 13:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Marcus Tedric I'd give todays minimum price at about 5b.
I concur with my learned friend, although I'd stretch it a little on the higher side.
Certainly in teh 5b - 5.5b range somewhere.
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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.30 12:53:00 -
[15]
and seeing a discussion already about minimum, rather than optimal sale price makes me glad I didn't bother.
Originally by: Fabricati Diem Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.12.30 13:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 30/12/2007 13:28:00 Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 30/12/2007 13:27:40 I'm sitting with Riethe on this one.
CCP is taking a very clear stance that their defining capships for the following roles, even with my limited knowledge of low/0.0 ops I see it as being
Dreads: POS, sieging etc, nothing much different there. Carriers/Motherships: Support vessels, what with triage and fighter assignments, Mom is just a bigger version of the carrier. Titans: Yeah, nuff said there :P Rorqual: *Mining* support and hauling. I don't think CCP wants these to be haulers unless it's of Ore only. For now, they do the job as a low-sec only hauler.
The power of the jump freighter to jump out of high-sec into low sec is massive in my opinion. While you can argue it's unnecessary for the more developed corps, it's pretty key for smaller corps IMO. People argue that at 6-7 bil (going up to 10 bil) it's out of range of most small corps. I don't believe this to be the case. Without public funds and about 500mil seed cash, I reckon Dusk Blade could, in it's current capacity, have made about 4-5 billion isk in as many months.
Consider a 10 man corp now. 500 mil isn't much money at all. Two accounts dedicated to what Dusk Blade does on top of the other 8 doing ratting, mishing, mining, combined with it takes several months to actually *fly* one, i hardly think it's out of reach of any small corp.
Quote: However, there was a massive price rise in the T2 Components at patch-point and I do not yet think this has stabilised.
Prices took a massive jump yes, but now they're decaying incredibly rapidly, and fast approaching a price about 25-100% more expensive than pre-patch. That's not too bad in my opinion.
Improve Market Competition! |
SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.30 15:46:00 -
[17]
Kylar the flaw in your argument looking at small corps is you're only looking at whether they could sc*****cash together if they had to. You're ignoring the 1st rule of Eve, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. A small corp can't afford to lose their entire gross income for several months (and more once cargo is factored). At current production cost, jump freighters are very much exclusively toys for the big boys. Whether or not that should be the case is a seperate discussion.
Who needs the Nikkei when there's EBay? Lag? GTFOOJ! |
Tensa
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Posted - 2007.12.30 23:43:00 -
[18]
CCP has done awesome with the idea of jump freighters, imo. I also believe that ships should have their place. I think it would be a good idea to make deep space transports (t2 industrial) have a miniature jump drive on it for smaller ranged, smaller volume transports. Not enough to transport big ships, but enough to transport things like ammo and such. Then make it to where these drives can only be used once every 24 hours(it takes alot out of the smaller ships to propel itself through the universe without the aide of a jumpgate.) This way Blockade runners and normal industrials will still have their place. By moving items from a certain point and distributing them throughout the region. Maybe have it to where the Deep space transports can only key into POS setup cynos, because they are the only ones able to generate the power it takes for a ship with much smaller power than Capital ships to jump to it. Just ideas.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.12.31 01:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tensa Edited by: Tensa on 30/12/2007 23:48:39 CCP has done awesome with the idea of jump freighters, imo. I also believe that ships should have their place. I think it would be a good idea to make deep space transports (t2 industrial) have a miniature jump drive on it for smaller ranged, smaller volume transports. Not enough to transport big ships, but enough to transport things like ammo and such. Then make it to where these drives can only be used once every 24 hours(it takes alot out of the smaller ships to propel itself through the universe without the aide of a jumpgate.) This way Blockade runners and normal industrials will still have their place by moving items from the dropoff point and distributing them throughout the region. Maybe have it to where the Deep space transports can only key into POS setup cynos, because they are the only ones able to generate the power it takes for a ship with much smaller power than Capital ships to jump to it. Just ideas.
Ha? Seriously, I don't think even CCP would agree that JF's turned out well seeing as they thought they'd cost half what they do so I don't really think they can be called a success.
Simply because a small corp can buy one doesn't mean that it's wise or economical. When more than a quarter of your assets are locked up in your transport that really cuts into your profit margin. Not to mention the old adage, don't fly what you can't afford to loose. Especially when it has a paper thin tank compared to, well, any other transport including a Rorqual.
I disagree that CCP only intends Rorquals for hauling ore. They've never stated that and they've never indicated that it needs change. I went through the list of alternatives and what I think will happen to them. Simply put, for small jobs there are Carriers and Dreadnoughts and for the big stuff there's Rorquals which are so much cheaper and more durable than JF's that I expect they'll see a lot more of them than JF's and given the crazy number of Freighter BPO's being bought JF's will be overproduced for the price point they are currently at.
___________________________________________ 5% Mining Implants & 5% Manufacturing Implants *From 110M to 150M |
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