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Blue Pill
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:25:00 -
[1]
Here are some of my thoughts. They may not be supported by other players. I encourage them to reply with their opinions.
- Do not change things that have been already implemented
I'm disappointed with today's patch. I don't like the idea of radical changes to the game play that has been around for months now. I am not a beta-tester and I'm not getting paid to fix your bugs, I am playing this game to have fun. I don't have a problem with alterations to ship bonuses, but when you change the effectiveness of a module that has been around since beta, I am not going to be happy.
- Do not alter the skills
One of the things that angers me most is the changes to skills. We have had these skills for a long time, and suddenly you change them, not alerting us in advanced that we'll have to train certain fields before the patch comes out so we may continue using these modules, this refering to the missle launcher and mining skills. The changes were not necessary. They are only prelonging more gastly training that we don't need, and angering everyone in the process.
- Stop benefiting only the beginners
With the unanchoring of cans, hundreds of added sentry guns, and now talks about tolling battleships mining in empire and flagging of pirates, I would like to point out a beginner learns during the first two weeks of game play and then moves out to greater things in lower security systems and bigger corporations. The fact that we have radical changes to support beginners and hack away at everyone else's game play is ridiculous.
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Chuck Manzon
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Chuck Manzon on 18/03/2004 22:32:50
Beware of the dollar sign eve developers.
Sony panders to their customers wishes way to much and they end up screwing up their games due to this. You have made a very good game here so dont flub it up listening to the vocal minority.
Keep up the good work, but dont oversimplify things or make them to n00b friendly because you will kill what the game is.
PS Be carefull about balancing to much also.. Many games get screwed in this fasion too.
You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy. |
Blue Pill
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:37:00 -
[3]
....and fix the undocking, that's just becoming annoying.
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Vannaroth
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:37:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Vannaroth on 18/03/2004 22:40:34 100% agreed, the changes implamented in todays patch were pointless and serve no purpose other than to frustrate. it is going to take me a week to be able to do everything i could before. Thank u ccp
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Aenar
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:45:00 -
[5]
Not saying that I agree with every change made in the recent patch, in fact I think it is silly that they modified the missle skills, but I can see why.
They seemed to have modified it so that the missle skills follow the gun turrent skills, I wondered why they didn't do it in the first place. Yes, it does kind of upset me, due to the sheer fact that for the next couple of days, I have this inept feeling, but I can survive two days or so....it just pushes my current plans back, whatever...
I'll somehow pull through
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:47:00 -
[6]
Take it, take it!
Convert Stations
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2004.03.18 23:03:00 -
[7]
Well having played this game since release, I as well as many others have seen this game evolve into something different than back in may of last year. When this game started you could shoot people in empire as concord was almost non existant... a person could take their noob ship to the nearest 0.0 system(at the time there were 0.0 systems in empire space) and mine ark. THis game continues to evolve and will do so. Personnaly i don't mind if they change skills, but i think they should work something out where we as the player can say hmm i have 40k points in x skill and you've now changed it so that i can't use it or its not worth those 40k anymore. So we should then have the option to place those 40k points into somthing else if we choose sorta thing...
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Shirei
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Posted - 2004.03.18 23:08:00 -
[8]
Did you actually try out the skill changes before you made this post? Everyone who already has the cruise missile skill can still happily continue using them and doesn't need to train any extra skills. They work fine without heavy and standard missiles at 3.
And everyone who is mining only a little bit seriously should have mining at level 4 anyway (prerequisite for Astrogeology). Also, training mining from 2 to 4 takes little more than a day because it's a rank 1 skill.
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Serge Tahlon
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Posted - 2004.03.18 23:20:00 -
[9]
that they still work is what annoys me the most.
i was halfway there to cruise missle (5 days to go) now i am back to what 7 to 8 days.
at least apply the principle same rules for everyone !
why should someone get away with 3 days less training only because he signed up 2 weeks earlier... not to mention that i can scrap all my miner II for at least another day.
now i m just wondering wether my 2 giant sec cans are still ankered in 0.8 or if that 500 000 isk is gone for good as well.
who says ccp caters to newbies ? i am one and they certainly dont cater to my needs.
~~ signatures ?! all they do is wasteing space... ~~ |
Brother Victae
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Posted - 2004.03.19 00:20:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Brother Victae on 19/03/2004 00:22:18 <sarcasm> Yeah great plan there sherlock, never change anything in the game, let it become stale and boring, dont fix the bugs and NEVER add any new content. Once its ingame, its set in stone, so that means you can just leave EVE in its current state and save tons by not having to pay those pesky developers or art teams anymore! </sarcasm>
You sir, are an idiot. You expect nothing to ever change? You want to play the exact same game for years on end? Go buy a single player. MMOs always have to be changing, you cant run a good MMO if everything stays the same.
I woke up this morning expecting to train heavy missiles, but then the patch changed things. Big deal, its only a couple of extra days training.
I woke up this morning expecting to use the 4 brand new Miner IIs I bought yesterday evening, but I couldnt. Big deal, its only a days training.
Yes, CCP should have announced the skill changes more clearly, but I didnt read the patchnotes, so its my fault I didnt know in advance. Just because yu like everything safe, comfartable and familiar doesnt mean thats the best way for the game to go.
Now either go and train the skills you need or stop complaining and quit the game, no skin off my nose.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.03.19 00:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Scorpyn on 19/03/2004 08:27:09 Changing things are ok in my opinion. However, if ppl are not told about it in advance, ppl will get very angry. Now ppl have lost ships due to sec status increase, been unable to use their weapons (and some ppl probably lost ships because of this too) and mining lasers - and all this just because ppl weren't warned in advance. This way, some ppl have lost a lot of time - skilltraining time, and if there was a shiploss also a lot of time making money (if they are in a small corp or new players).
You can't assume that all players read the patchnotes every time there is a patch - I bet most ppl don't even know where to find them. And the skill changes were announced the same day as the patch release, making it impossible to train skills to compensate.
And there also seems to be a number of bugs that still are in the patch. This is getting very annoying - every time there is a patch, I know that I should stay away from eve for a few day 'cause it won't be stable for some time. Please test things more before patching.
Suggestion : Make the client download a list of changes with current patch, changes since last logon and coming changes (listed with dates so you know when the changes will be applied) on every logon to the server. That way, a lot of irritation will go away.
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Blue Pill
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Posted - 2004.03.19 01:32:00 -
[12]
Quote: You sir, are an idiot.
There is always one person like you that posts. Your problem is you see something one way, and everyone else has to agree with you or they're wrong. Keep it up and you won't get banned for harassement.
I never stated that nothing new can't be added. I stated that if a capacitor relay 1 has been in game since beta, how it functions shouldn't be changed. Changing the -25% decrease in shield recharge rate to -10% shield boost shouldn't be how it's done. This brings in the problem of trying to balance everything correctly. You can never balance everything, it just angers people.
About the missle skills, I was posting to ask how is it fair that people who joined recently have to train extra to get what people who joined a week ago didn't have to train. This brings in the issue of how will the newer people catch up if they're going slower?
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.03.19 01:48:00 -
[13]
Blue Pill i honestly think you are not suited for playing MMOGs. Cap relay nerf was asked for by most major PvPers since pre-Castor and now its finaly happened, and the nerf is probably the wisest "nerf" since Alpha... Also many people that are flying Gun-based ships and have several million skillpoints in Gunnery are not very happy whith the fact that 1-mil sp Scorp pilots can outdamage them or come close to their damage without investing time in development of their character. Also people have been complaining about alts being trained for a week to fly kestrels with cruise missles and then attacking miners, haulers and others in secure space. Please stop being selfish and try to look at the big picture.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2004.03.19 02:22:00 -
[14]
This is quite interesting. I wrote almost the same words 10 months ago, in the last day of beta, in the forums and as a bug report.
(...)
Now, look at this: ppl say that gunery will matter, since the double nerf: shield boosters + cap relays. what ship in the whole game can keep up with a raven fitted with 6 launchers with cruisers or torps ?
Last time I checked, or you jam it, or you fit for cap + some tanking and cross your fingers. Now what ?
In second place, what ship will be able to keep up with a tempest ?
Launchers use a small amount of cap. Remember that. And do a LOT of dmg.
What about Amarr, with their big size lasers eating up cap or Gallente with their so-so cap use from rails ?
I would like to quote the movie "Contact" once more:
"small moves Ellie, small moves".
I think this one is a bit too much. _______________________________________________
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.03.19 02:54:00 -
[15]
its not amarr lasers eating cap, its the fact that people dont know how to setup an apoc. there is more to life then tachyons. all this did is prevent amarr and gallente from shield tanking, which is good.
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.03.19 03:18:00 -
[16]
The only thing that bothers me is the feeling that Eve is getting less and less risky as the months go past. I spent most of Beta afraid and watching my back in case someone attacked me. That was great! I never flew ANYWHERE AFK because nowhere was completely safe. As the months have passed though Eve has got progressivly safer. Now in some cases this is a good thing but it really killed the sence of excitement. 0.4 and under should have at least a bit of risk.
I'm not calling for the gate camping gankfests of old but some chance of a quick hit and run happening at a gate wouldnt go amiss to spice up the day.
I must admit though I'd trade all of that for some more content. Eve is a fantastic game but its just a blank canvas. I really expected more to be going on after a year of playing. Lots of my friends are getting bored and hardly logging on. Tech 2 and more toys are not as important as player involvement in the storyline. Even quests or random SMALL events would help. The Events team doesnt really seem to be doing ANYTHING. We need a few small events a week to make eve seem alive.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.03.19 08:23:00 -
[17]
Quote: I'm not calling for the gate camping gankfests of old but some chance of a quick hit and run happening at a gate wouldnt go amiss to spice up the day.
Gate camping is still possible, just a little more difficult...
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2004.03.19 11:11:00 -
[18]
Quote: its not amarr lasers eating cap, its the fact that people dont know how to setup an apoc. there is more to life then tachyons. all this did is prevent amarr and gallente from shield tanking, which is good.
Ya, tachyons are out of my menu a long ago
But even with the cap bonus of the apoc, the situation was pretty matched if you take for example, a megathron fitted for somewhat cap too. If we would rank the lvl2 bs, without taking into account jamming, we would have the raven, tempest, apoc / mega pretty close.
But this change, imho, amplified the gap between raven / tempest and the rest of the pack, and thats with optimal cap skills. _______________________________________________
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Rimase
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Posted - 2004.03.19 11:32:00 -
[19]
If any changes help reduce PvP, in any way, I'm all For it.
EVE is not about PvP all the time, anyway. PvP sucks ****ing TOO MUCH! ____________________ ## 010100100110100101101101011000010111001101100101
When will it be possible to change your character's name? |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.03.19 11:38:00 -
[20]
this change balanced the ships in a way that their use fits their RP description. Amarrs were never supposed to shield tank. Now they arent going to. Just use a cap injector if you are having trouble with cap. Raven is very good atm, but its because other ships are "extremes" and raven stands somewhere in between. I like the diversity now, its going to be cool to PvP again.
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LocalHost
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Posted - 2004.03.19 11:40:00 -
[21]
Here, let me play the violin for all you whiners. Cancel your account and play the Sims. |
LocalHost
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Posted - 2004.03.19 11:41:00 -
[22]
Here, let me play the violin for all you whiners. Cancel your account and play the Sims. |
Karmic
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Posted - 2004.03.19 11:51:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Karmic on 19/03/2004 11:52:13 <whine mode>wahhhhhh I want my mummy.... the nasty dev's changed some things it must be a personal attack on me so I spit my dummy out !!!!</whine mode>
If you cannot handle the changes close you account and leave. - - - - - - - - -
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Saladin
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Posted - 2004.03.19 12:10:00 -
[24]
I have to agree with no changing skill requirements. I am ****ed regarding this issue in many ways. I trained Mechanic to level 5 so I could use large armor repairers. Then CCP lowers the requirement to level 3!!!!!! I lost one week of training time. Then they come in and change the skills for cruise missles etc....
The whole think just sux --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.03.19 15:12:00 -
[25]
you didnt loose it, if anything you gained from it because people will train mechanics only to lvl 3 and you, having it at lvl 5 will be able to keep your ship sometimes, when the person that has lvl 3 won't. stop whining. the only bad thing about these changes is that they are unanounced. a week prior to the patch would be acceptable i think.
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Ezri Dax
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Posted - 2004.03.19 15:25:00 -
[26]
Quote: the only bad thing about these changes is that they are unanounced. a week prior to the patch would be acceptable i think.
Agree with you
BIG Corporation A small girl in a BIG world |
Killgorde
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Posted - 2004.03.19 17:14:00 -
[27]
I don't have any objections to the recent nerfage of CPR's per se - it was always a bit of a no-brainer for low slots.
What is seriously annoying is the endless alteration of ships, modules, ore distribution ad infinitum since beta - you know, those that occur every time a ship or tactic becomes FOTM & CCP nerf it to hell and gone. I wouldnÆt recommend any dev applying for a high-wire act at the local circus where "balancing" is the pre-requisite. You only get 1 chance without a safety net...err - I guess we the customers are the safety net in the Eve universe so itÆs no skin of CCP's nose.
It does seem apparent that CCP do patch fixes without taking all factors into consideration, thus making for a game where there is no stability from one month to the next (and an endless stream of discord from the malcontent, whoÆs demographic varies form one patch to the next depending on who has been shafted by the nerf bat). It can be frustrating for players, especially when they have devoted time in skilling to suit a particular ship/configuration which is subsequently nerfed to their detriment.
My crystal ball tells me when Tech II is fully implemented (thinking Elite Frigs primarily) there will be a great deal of "Damn - <insert name of ship or module here> is way over-powered" followed by a Dev reaching for the polished nerfbat on the wall. For Tech III, IV and V read as with Tech II above (and as we have seen in the past Tech I). So unless thereÆs a bit more forethought to consequences of all factors upon implementation don't expect things to change dramatically.
Think laterally Devs.
Example:
There's been 5 gazillion posts about BS empire mining both for and against (I have no opinion on the issue other than that stripping starter systems is just plain wrong). The Devs remove the ability to anchor tins in high security. Result? The solo Empire BS miner uses an Industrial on 2nd or alt account. Anything changed?
The reason players mine in Empire is not (as one dev who shall remain nameless seems to think ) in order to make oodles of isk. Wakey wakey guys. ItÆs because battleships (and to a lesser degree Cruisers, Large Modules etc) take a shed load of low end minerals to manufacture. I donÆt see many corps strip-mining Veldspar and Scord in 0.0 because the risk just isnÆt worth the return.
Solution? Shift the emphasis of the mineral requirements for BS/Large Modules etc towards mega, zydrine and nocx (err - time taken to mine should equate to what it is at present thus keeping the cost about the same). This forces the more experienced players to mine in low security and leaves empire for the new players, market traders and agent/research missions. Ok, is changing the mineral req's on bp's en masse without royally screwing everything up possible? Is the 1:4:16:64 mineral ratio formula sacrosanct? I know not - but I do know that if this is feasible, itÆs a damned sight easier way of solving the inherent problem than the fiddling that's going on at present.
Killgorde
CEO - Cutting Edge Incorporated
"I thought I saw a light at the end of the tunnel but it turned out to be some bastard with a torch in one hand and a ****load more work for me in the other" |
EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.03.19 17:24:00 -
[28]
Edited by: EveJunkie on 19/03/2004 17:26:01
Quote: If any changes help reduce PvP, in any way, I'm all For it.
EVE is not about PvP all the time, anyway. PvP sucks ****ing TOO MUCH!
I think you need to stop to concider the definition of PvP . Like it or not you ARE partisipating in PvP all the time in eve. Its what what Eve is all about really.
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Koda
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Posted - 2004.03.19 18:15:00 -
[29]
Quote: Did you actually try out the skill changes before you made this post? Everyone who already has the cruise missile skill can still happily continue using them and doesn't need to train any extra skills. They work fine without heavy and standard missiles at 3.
Thank you Shirei. All the changes mean is you can't train ANY FURTHER in the skill until you train the pre-requisites. You can still fire the stupid things.
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Christa Larne
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Posted - 2004.03.19 19:48:00 -
[30]
I have to throw my voice in with those who say that apart from the lack of advance notice there is nothing that I find a problem in the changes.
As an ''intermediate'' player - i.e. not a rookie but not yet in a BS - I find the interminable whining by the ''power players'' a bit pathetic. These changes are not being made to specifically advantage the ''n00bs'', they are being made to advantage everyone ... except the overpowered few who seem to have far too much potential to simply gank anyone who is trying hard to catch up. (I am not saying that every advanced player ganks but they all have the ability to do so.)
As a Cruiser level player these changes make my chance of surviving a gank much better and I am very happy with that. The only people I see complaining are those who are gank-proof and so see nothing to gain from it.
I agree that the game needs to stop changing, but it needs to be fairly level before it does. I honestly hope that TL3 and above are a joke, stop at TL2 and let us have a stable game we can all play for a while.
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