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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.13 03:55:00 -
[61]
Blockade runners do fine against HIC's, unless you start fitting Expanders. Yeah its slow that way, but it is still "safe" to move around 5,000m¦ of cargo that way. --
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Trading Bunnz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.13 05:44:00 -
[62]
Quote: ...Well, if everyone followed your rules then no one would be running courier contracts either...
Just because a system isn't "safe" for you or I doesn't mean the same applies to everyone. And just because I am conversant of the risks (as I suspect most people are in the MD forums here), doesn't mean everyone is. And where you can pass that risk off to another party and expose yourself or your operations to no risk, at a cost of course, you have a myriad of options other than trying to break gate camps yourself.
I have no idea where Kirjava setup operations but its not that hard to locate reaction chains in a location supportive of multiple routes to your towers with access to the skills and knowledge you should have prior to attempting it. Not to ride his case too hard, its been a learning experience, but it does demonstrate quite clearly to Kirjava, public managers and public investors, that regardless of business plans, security, reputation, whatever, the key to success is simple. Competence, knowledge and experience/expertise of the chosen venture.
In this case, Kirjava has learnt the hard way, and investors have paid for his learning. Is that a situation that you are happy with?
From my experience, the safest way to move volumes of materials into the lowsec operations area is to jump them in. Jump Freighters make this far easier, allowing a jump straight from high sec, but they are still expensive beasts. Rorquals are perfectly adequate, allowing your lowsec "pipe" to be located well away from your towers. There are pleny of lowsec systems that you can use to ferry stuff out to the rorqual, then you just jump the rorqual into the target system. With appropriate skills, that lowsec "pipe" can be as far as 8-9ly away from your towers. And you can cycle through appropriate "pipes". For large scale resupplies in systems that aren't "friendly", its the way any serious business should be doing such logistics.
I dont claim to have all the answers. I merely outline, after reading this thread many times, where Kirjava went wrong with his logistics. Maybe others have other answers, I don't know. This is simply one way that Kirjava, with experience in the trade he was launching, could have limited or reduced the risks inherent in his operations.
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Madd Bomber
ADAMA Corps Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.01.13 09:12:00 -
[63]
Well, waiting on the return of whatever is left (500 shares).
Sucks that it failed, but gave it a good shot and learned some lessons. If you setup an IPO again in the future, I would probably invest in it again, just not as much.
; )
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.13 11:26:00 -
[64]
Since the chain is no longer my problem, I will say how I did my logistics. Before the IPO I was using a Bustard and a scout, sometimes I had to cloak and run off grid to escape pirates, but all was good back then. When I expanded, as outlined in the IPO, investment covered a Rorqual and a Freighter. I would ship goods to the last hisec system in this Freighter, dock up, then move materials by Bustard to a POS sitting in 0.3, 1 jump away. Because Rorquals are lowsec only - they have to be loaded in lowsec. I cynoed back and forth to the station in my area with the Rorqual, it was loaded from a corp hanger array in that lowsec system. I would like to see you load a Rorqual without leaving hisec - it's impossible.
Chears Bombber, due to a few delays I am just going to pay out the 2.5B I have to hand then do the rest as soon as I get my mitts on it. Ric and Kaz read the much more detailed business plan which included the logistics plans, so you can't say I never thought of that
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.16 10:19:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Kirjava
Will be back later, have a few final odds and sodds to sell and then will pay it all out, I can guarentee a total of 50% return for all investors, I am going to sell Doctor Fruitloop and Arianhod if I need to to get this 50%.
Just wondering how long do you estimate "later" to be? Just wondering so I can plan accordingly.
Originally by: Kirjava posted on the 12th Later was going to be last night, gate camps have since changed these plans to today.
/me looks at his non flashing wallet 4days later /me listens to the crickets
Any updates? Rough timeline? --
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.16 10:42:00 -
[66]
Am now just 400M away in shifting Ferrogel to get to the 50% payback. Just logged in and Kwint can confirm, I'm chugging around in my bustard as we speak
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.16 10:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kirjava Am now just 400M away in shifting Ferrogel to get to the 50% payback. Just logged in and Kwint can confirm, I'm chugging around in my bustard as we speak
Thank you sir, I would have been happy with a time approximation rather than an activites report, cause now every piwate is running to their locator agent and fitting their ships for bustard busting.
:P --
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.16 10:45:00 -
[68]
Silly Pirates - I allready bought a Crane like someone suggested and moved 60k Ferrogel into hisec with it
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.16 10:51:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kirjava Silly Pirates
Agreed...many are
--
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.16 10:53:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Kirjava Am now just 400M away in shifting Ferrogel to get to the 50% payback. Just logged in and Kwint can confirm, I'm chugging around in my bustard as we speak
Can't confirm the Bustard but can confirm he was in system. I can also confirm there were more than one group of pirates gate camping the easy route today and at least one of them had a Hictor. I can also confirm that they shot at but failed to kill my scout's shuttle.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
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Four Degrees
Caldari DEEP FRIED RAT Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.16 14:49:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kirjava Silly Pirates - I allready bought a Crane like someone suggested and moved 60k Ferrogel into hisec with it [IMAGE REMOVED]
We all know that there's no security, even in high sec.
So once this 50% is distributed, what (if anything) else needs to be liquidated before it's all done and dusted?
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.16 15:21:00 -
[72]
After that 50%, that's it done and dusted.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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John Newport
Caldari Newport Family Trust Fund
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Posted - 2008.01.18 01:05:00 -
[73]
Did you manage to wrap this up Kirjava?
John.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.18 14:01:00 -
[74]
Just saw this, in the middle of paying it out now. I have just under 30k ferrogel on the market waiting to be sold, but I started at the top of the investors and worked my way down so the biggest investors may allready have noticed me throwing isk in their wallets.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:06:00 -
[75]
I took one look at local this morning and said "forget it." There's about 20 pirates just in the first system I have to get through and Friday usually isn't half as bad as Saturday. At this rate I'm going to have to write off hauling for the whole weekend....I'm starting to see why I can make this obscene margin.
Did you manage to cash in on that 3k per unit rise in price before it started to cool? Man, I hope that's not just a bubble.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:30:00 -
[76]
I made the ferrogel I am flogging at 8k/unit for production with a proffit margin of 20k/unit. The proffit margin is starting to thin out relativle speaking though.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:52:00 -
[77]
Quote: I'm sure you know that now, Eve can give some harsh lessons, but simply put you do not haul cargo through lowsec gates.
While I kind of agree with you that the only 'safe' way to get cargo through low sec is to skip it entirely with jump capable capships, don't you think that's kind of a bad mechnic for the game to have?
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.18 20:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: I'm sure you know that now, Eve can give some harsh lessons, but simply put you do not haul cargo through lowsec gates.
While I kind of agree with you that the only 'safe' way to get cargo through low sec is to skip it entirely with jump capable capships, don't you think that's kind of a bad mechnic for the game to have?
Kind of. But pre Jump Freighter a capship that could cyno had to be in lowsec, so something has to make the jump into lowsec through a gate to load up that capship, thats where the risk of the operation is.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Trading Bunnz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.19 02:03:00 -
[79]
My whole point though, Kirjava, which is the learning you should be taking from this, is that the "jump into lowsec to load up your cap ship" doesn't have to be:
a - from the same system every time, b - in the same region every time, c - can be 5-8ly AWAY from your target, d - can be done by an alt.
Both yourself and Kwint have had problems with people camping the first hop in the pipe. Do yourselves a favour, use a different pipe.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.19 03:19:00 -
[80]
I'm guessing if we've received money already from you then that's all we'll be getting?
If so, then by 50% you meant 50% - 9% (the past div we got)? Thus we got 41% in this last payment?
Just wondering if I've got it right or if we can expect a bit more at some point.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
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Klavayne
Free Mercenaries Union FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2008.01.19 17:43:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Shadarle I'm guessing if we've received money already from you then that's all we'll be getting?
If so, then by 50% you meant 50% - 9% (the past div we got)? Thus we got 41% in this last payment?
Just wondering if I've got it right or if we can expect a bit more at some point.
Nooooo, then we wouldnt get another little disappointment to send us on our way!
That sounds more bitter than i feel. I hold no resentment, just disappointment in a promising IPO spoiled by a few silly mistakes.
I would still consider investing in kirjava at some point in the future, given the right plan. Anyhoo, all done and dusted. Good luck in whatever kirjava.
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Four Degrees
Caldari DEEP FRIED RAT Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.19 18:57:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Shadarle I'm guessing if we've received money already from you then that's all we'll be getting?
If so, then by 50% you meant 50% - 9% (the past div we got)? Thus we got 41% in this last payment?
Just wondering if I've got it right or if we can expect a bit more at some point.
Seen this myself, bit of a let down after being told we'd receive 50% and not 50% when you add the div. Oh well, it's a moot point as you can't magic isk out of thin air.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.01.19 23:49:00 -
[83]
*begin shameless advert*
If you low sec guys would use a low sec delivery service then you wouldnt need to worry with all this stuff. Sure it's expensive but honestly, after you factor in the time and trouble you are putting yourself through as well as lost shipments then it's actually the best investment you can make.
*end shameless avert*
---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:19:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 *begin shameless advert*
If you low sec guys would use a low sec delivery service then you wouldnt need to worry with all this stuff. Sure it's expensive but honestly, after you factor in the time and trouble you are putting yourself through as well as lost shipments then it's actually the best investment you can make.
*end shameless avert*
/me shamelessly starts hitting 115 with a wet mop Back into your own marketing threads ye scallywag
And yea, 50% loss of total capital was what I said, sorry about the confusion there, I estimated the loss then guarenteed a total payout of 50%, meaning of the initial investment, my apologies.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.20 05:45:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 *begin shameless advert*
If you low sec guys would use a low sec delivery service then you wouldnt need to worry with all this stuff. Sure it's expensive but honestly, after you factor in the time and trouble you are putting yourself through as well as lost shipments then it's actually the best investment you can make.
*end shameless avert*
About that, I asked one of your guys for a quote more than a week ago and haven't heard a word since. We also talked about regular delivery of fuel and settled on a price but we haven't talked since. Drop me an eve-mail or something as we need to firm up some plans. I definitely got an eve-mail from Aleksi Maksimovich but I don't think that's who I talked to about prices...anyways, make me an offer I can't refuse or I'm buying a Jump Freighter.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.01.20 20:45:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 *begin shameless advert*
If you low sec guys would use a low sec delivery service then you wouldnt need to worry with all this stuff. Sure it's expensive but honestly, after you factor in the time and trouble you are putting yourself through as well as lost shipments then it's actually the best investment you can make.
*end shameless avert*
About that, I asked one of your guys for a quote more than a week ago and haven't heard a word since. We also talked about regular delivery of fuel and settled on a price but we haven't talked since. Drop me an eve-mail or something as we need to firm up some plans. I definitely got an eve-mail from Aleksi Maksimovich but I don't think that's who I talked to about prices...anyways, make me an offer I can't refuse or I'm buying a Jump Freighter.
If you didn't talk to myself or aleksi maksimovich, then you weren't talking to the right guys. Also, I'd suggest you mail me directly regarding low sec delivery as Aleksi handles most of the high sec stuff. I've got a baby on the way in a few weeks so I'm trying to limit the high sec stuff I have to be involved in. Drop me a line or convo me in game so we can talk about your options.
-Amarr Citizen 155
---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
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