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Demosthenes Citium
Lyceum Cyrene
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Posted - 2008.01.10 09:58:00 -
[1]
Before I move on to the main topic, let me speak about myself for a bit. IÆve been a longtime EVE player, and I want to spread some ideas which IÆve come to. My ideas are by no means right or wrong, just my personal views. The reason I am posting on this character is I do not wish my allegiance to detract from my message. I plan to post whenever I feel I have something worth posting.
Overwhelming Force
Mercenary Coalition is a very successful alliance; there is no doubt about that. Their success was built upon an early strategy of focusing on capitals and supercaps. They realized early on that instead of a conventional BS fleet, they could accomplish their goals by deploying large numbers of capitals with a small number of support.
Everybody knows of MCÆs success of hotdropping, and to many this also created much annoyance. The annoyance was warranted, but the annoyed were at the receiving end of a strategy that everyone soon would be following. As much as I dislike analogies, German Panzer divisions that focused tremendous force on one point of a line epitomize MCÆs strategy. The ability to deploy carriers with spider tanking, and also retaining the capability of jumping out was brilliant. Nobody had done it on such a grand and consistent scale before.
The Future in a Void
By focusing on capitals, Mercenary CoalitionÆs capital fleet grew by leaps and bounds. However, MCÆs small player base would ultimately prove that they would never win an arms race. When a player possesses capitals and supercaps, the player can go no further. The buildtime and capital for a Titan, and also their limited use means the arms race ends with Motherships, at least in capital battles.
With a core of 500 players, it is no surprise that Mercenary Coalition begins to fall behind. Goonswarm, Tau Ceti Federation, Red Alliance, AAA, along with the rest of the Eve community all adapted and grew their own respective capital fleets. With enemies numbering in the thousands, and a capital ceiling, there was simply no way that Mercenary Coalition could maintain its lead. As one seeÆs today, Mercenary Coalition is no longer the impressive juggernaut it was. While still formidable, there is no way they can match their success of destroying D2 in the future, or ever at all.
Dissecting a Reputation
Everyone today would admit that Mercenary Coalition has quite a reputation. They have steamrolled many opponents, and fought in the trenches none-stop. However, one needs to break down their opponents to see Mercenary CoalitionÆs true effectiveness.
Mercenary CoalitionÆs grand claim to fame was the destruction of D2 and many of D2Æs allies. In what would be known as a cleansing of the North, Mercenary Coalition and friends took apart D2 as nobody thought they would. Impressive if one looks at the surface, but beneath the surface is what is interesting.
Dusk till Dawn is an old organization with a great deal of history. They were the powerhouse of the North, and effectively controlled the region through a series of NAPs and overwhelming threats of force. The problem with their approach, however, was their skill on the battlefield was never consistently conditioned. Many of the mistakes of their fleet losses and Titan losses were due to a lack of experience in warfare on the capital scale. With the disintegration of D2, one can also see the scale of their battlefield prowess. Mostly Harmless is an industrial powerhouse, Kraftwerk is more or less similar, and Evoke, a small alliance, remains the only potent pvp force.
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Demosthenes Citium
Lyceum Cyrene
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Posted - 2008.01.10 09:59:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Demosthenes Citium on 10/01/2008 10:00:44 So was Mercenary CoalitionÆs success in the North blown out of proportion? No, it was a success, you cannot deny that. It was also against a force that was superior numbers. The difference now, is that everybody has seen Mercenary CoalitionÆs strategy and adapted. Mercenary Coalition is held at its player-limit ceiling, and with no more bigger guns to upgrade to, they have remained somewhat stagnant. A True Test
The true test for Mercenary Coalition came when it found the enemies of Goonswarm, AAA, IAC, and Red Alliance. MC met its match with a force that could field the same firepower it could, on the same time zone and in the same systems. One can easily see the results of the conflict on various killboards. While both sides lost significant assets, Mercenary Coalition ultimately lost more war-time assets than any others. Losing supercaps, but specifically a Titan, was a blow to Mercenary Coalition that had not been accomplished before. Mercenary Coalition continued fighting, but soon after took a break from the conflict.
So the question becomes, what does Mercenary Coalition do next? They met their match, and it was painfully obvious that Mercenary Coalition would lose its momentum sooner rather than later. It is no surprise what their next move wasà
Tortugan Surprise
Mercenary Coalition moved and broke apart from Band of Brothers, forming instead a cooperation of alliances/corps which include KIA, Outbreak, Evoke and others. What would Mercenary Coalition gain from this? The time to develop a new strategy.
It was painfully obvious that if MC continued the fight in Catch, they would be on the receiving end more and more as they grew closer to the capital ceiling, while the enemy had no such limits. Pulling back to Period Basis, and incorporating a group of solid pvpers would give MC time and human capital to build momentum again. And so we are at today, where MC and friends have been involved in a bitter contest for Period Basis.
An Hourglass
The ball is now in Mercenary CoalitionÆs court. Mercenary Coalition needs a new strategy, something that can stop an enemy with superior numbers and a larger, more developable human capital base. It will be interesting to see if a new development occurs, but if not, I do not see events going well for the new PB cooperation. As a whole, the cooperation has strong pvpers but again, the capital ceiling is fast approaching due to their limited numbers. Unless the coalition of Goonswarm, Red, AAA, TCF, and others falls apart, Mercenary Coalition needs to work quickly and creatively to secure its future.
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Baxalusx
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:11:00 -
[3]
this is actually a really good post
mad props ---------
~THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS ICORION~ |
FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:12:00 -
[4]
tl;dr
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Promu
RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Promu on 10/01/2008 10:13:57 impressive post. Nice one something worth reading for a change Props!
Promu
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ChoppinBrocolli
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:15:00 -
[6]
MC's Titan kill was mainly the work of AAA+RA. GS especially had nothing to do with it.
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Fenella
Caldari Dangermouse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:16:00 -
[7]
Theres another 'hard cap' that you fail to mention, that of number of players able to operate in one system.
If MC sticks a 300 player fleet in a system, it doesnt matter that the opponents have 4000 players ready to defend, because they can not be applied.
Lag and node crashes limit how effective a multi-thousand player alliance can be.
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FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Fenella Theres another 'hard cap' that you fail to mention, that of number of players able to operate in one system.
If MC sticks a 300 player fleet in a system, it doesnt matter that the opponents have 4000 players ready to defend, because they can not be applied.
Lag and node crashes limit how effective a multi-thousand player alliance can be.
QFT
what good does it to have more ppl than your enemy if you cant use it? Just like 300
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Heptameron
Gallente Seven. Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:25:00 -
[9]
fairly good post... but some bits are kind of skewed, but then maybe I didn't have all the facts at the time.
From what I saw on the ground (ex rzr pilot btw) the MC attack on the north happened at our first failed attempt at getting a foothold in querious. D2 regrouped back north to take them on but the *****s had started to appear. The ferocity of the MC attack was as unexpected as D2's inability to deal with it. Most of the other northern partners stayed in the south at first, and it wasn't until D2 started taking some serious losses that we were approached to return home and give them a hand.
Unfortunately by that time it was probably too late, a foot hold in the north had been established, MC had also recruited some 'partners' (i'll refrain from using the word pets to avoid flameage :p) to support their huge cap fleet. So in fact the idea that MC had a large cap fleet/small support fleet is kind of inaccurate, their personal support fleet may have been small but they had recruited several hundred other pilots to provide that role, of course with the added bonus that they had been made an offer to keep the areas they took.
But that is likely where MC's/BoB's mistake was made in 'conquering' the north. Ok, agreed D2 died a death i personally would find hard to take given the force they had been previously, that of slowly dying from within rather than be beaten on the battlefield. But what was missed was the 'brothers in arms' friendship forged between other northern entities, sometimes regarded as the poor relatives of D2. The tenacity for instance of my old alliance was awesome to be involved in, moving fighting assets to our neighbours and friends MM, while running 23/7 op's to the new inhabitants of our old home with absolutely no doubt that we could take it back because now the cap blob had gone on to new pastures. Those MC left behind were simply not good enough to keep the area they had been given.
Ok well so i digress a wee bit, but MC's next move? Well the old MC is gone... it's current shape shouldn't even be compared to what they were 8 months or so ago. Now they are sitting with some new, very well known partners, that not only can provide their own caps, but the much needed EXPERIENCED PvP support for the mahoosive cap blob MC themselves have. What their longer term plans are with their new friends, assuming BoB is dealt with is a bigger question imho. The whole Tortuga thing reminds me a little of when 5 was formed post JQA days (im ex JQA as well :p), lots of pvpers grouping together, doing nasty things to a lot of people all over eve... aaaahhh the good old days :p
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:30:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 10/01/2008 10:30:56 MC used to Hot drop invincible motherships vs fleets that could in no way kill it. The north did not have enough capital firepower to defend against carrier/MS so lost out. This was like running some kind of lvl4 as no way could the north do anything due to greedy northern alliances not investing in serious capital fleets.
Whenever there was any genuine risk to Capitals, MC was always out of the clear. Having a bunch of carriers are good, but against blobs of dreads or smartbomb motherships, even 300 carriers would not win.
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Demosthenes Citium
Lyceum Cyrene
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ChoppinBrocolli MC's Titan kill was mainly the work of AAA+RA. GS especially had nothing to do with it.
You are correct.
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Demosthenes Citium
Lyceum Cyrene
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 10/01/2008 10:30:56 Having a bunch of carriers are good, but against blobs of dreads or smartbomb motherships, even 300 carriers would not win.
I disagree, fighters and lag are better than dreads with the current state of game mechanics. Carriers are also not stuck in space due to siege mode.
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Demosthenes Citium
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 10/01/2008 10:30:56 Having a bunch of carriers are good, but against blobs of dreads or smartbomb motherships, even 300 carriers would not win.
I disagree, fighters and lag are better than dreads with the current state of game mechanics. Carriers are also not stuck in space due to siege mode.
A dread could run a tank, with a smartbomb capship providing cover. MC are very carrier heavy and reley on fighters a lot, though they have a small dreadnaught force.
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maGz
The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Whenever there was any genuine risk to Capitals, MC was always out of the clear.
Unfortunately this has always been the case with MC caps. I'm not saying that going suicidal with a 50+ cap fleet is a brilliant idea, however MC has always lacked balls when it came to deploying their caps against capable opponents.
PS. The whole BoB thing might have changed that, although I believe any loss of MC caps down in PB is more due to MC being caught off guard than them actually putting their caps at risk. ____________
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: maGz
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Whenever there was any genuine risk to Capitals, MC was always out of the clear.
Unfortunately this has always been the case with MC caps. I'm not saying that going suicidal with a 50+ cap fleet is a brilliant idea, however MC has always lacked balls when it came to deploying their caps against capable opponents.
PS. The whole BoB thing might have changed that, although I believe any loss of MC caps down in PB is more due to MC being caught off guard than them actually putting their caps at risk.
I guess thats true. In the north and in other contracts, they only used caps when they were invincible I-Win button. Against bob, which has a legendary cap killing record, I doubt they will ever use them.
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Gidien Kane
Amarr OneHundredRed
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:05:00 -
[16]
You don't make money in the mercenary profession by showing balls and MC are extremely good mercenaries Please do not edit moderator remarks in your signature - Kreul Intentions |
Havoc G
Quam Singulari The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:21:00 -
[17]
Nice post.. Was a good read.
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maGz
The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: maGz on 10/01/2008 11:26:42
Originally by: Gidien Kane You don't make money in the mercenary profession by showing balls and MC are extremely good mercenaries
Although your comment definately has merit, I do believe that a complete lack of "showing balls", ie. what happened when -A- entered the Prohibition conflict, can be just as bad for your mercenary image as losing 10 caps in a proper fight.
EDIT: And yes - I do believe that the image of mercenaries is important. In the end, without showing what you are capable of, how would you expect anyone to pay for your services? ____________
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:51:00 -
[19]
cant say iv enjoyed reading many posts on this forum, but this was well written, nice one
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Angor
The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:55:00 -
[20]
Nice read, well written.
Cant say it isnt stuff we already know tho. _______________________________ [ 2007.06.07 21:07:22 ] FrankyWave > ransom me guys I am joining XElas !!! |
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Le Cardinal
ECP Rogues The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: maGz Edited by: maGz on 10/01/2008 11:26:42
Originally by: Gidien Kane You don't make money in the mercenary profession by showing balls and MC are extremely good mercenaries
Although your comment definately has merit, I do believe that a complete lack of "showing balls", ie. what happened when -A- entered the Prohibition conflict, can be just as bad for your mercenary image as losing 10 caps in a proper fight.
EDIT: And yes - I do believe that the image of mercenaries is important. In the end, without showing what you are capable of, how would you expect anyone to pay for your services?
I dont agree that MC didnt show balls. At least from my experience vs them in Fade they showed more balls than most alliances do/did. At times to the point of arrogance :) But unfortunately D2 was falling apart within at that point and we werent able to muster the proper capfleet to kill at least one MS. And they used those MS's very effective. So imo they have earned their respect as a proper pvp force on the battlefield.
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Nhaz
THE FINAL STAND Divine 0rder
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Heptameron
Those MC left behind were simply not good enough to keep the area they had been given.
would you care to revise that statement? it took 27 alliances 2000+ pilots and 5 months of pretty much solid combat to pry mpire and fatal out. razor tri and MM took nothing but losses untill they created a giant napfest and did lets bring everything and the kitchen sink attack.
yes off topic but lets try to remember what really happened there. _____________________________________________
It's NOT paranoia, If they REALLY ARE out to get you! |
Cpt Pugwash
Spartan Hoplites Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nhaz
Originally by: Heptameron
Those MC left behind were simply not good enough to keep the area they had been given.
would you care to revise that statement? it took 27 alliances 2000+ pilots and 5 months of pretty much solid combat to pry mpire and fatal out. razor tri and MM took nothing but losses untill they created a giant napfest and did lets bring everything and the kitchen sink attack.
yes off topic but lets try to remember what really happened there.
Who holds the North now?
Not Mpire/Fatal etc.
Therefore, use any excuse you like, they were not good enough.
Movies: Make Mine a Bob Light
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Darklin Eldaris
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
A dread could run a tank, with a smartbomb capship providing cover. MC are very carrier heavy and reley on fighters a lot, though they have a small dreadnaught force.
Small is really not the word for their dread fleet.
It;s just not. Mayber smaller than their carrier fleet, but definitely not small.
Whoever says MC are in trouble and "behind in the race" are officially off their respective rockers.
They have surrounded themselves with the exact right type of players in the new Tortugan Alliance. Those guys are not to be effed with.
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Darklin Eldaris
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cpt Pugwash
Originally by: Nhaz
Originally by: Heptameron
Those MC left behind were simply not good enough to keep the area they had been given.
would you care to revise that statement? it took 27 alliances 2000+ pilots and 5 months of pretty much solid combat to pry mpire and fatal out. razor tri and MM took nothing but losses untill they created a giant napfest and did lets bring everything and the kitchen sink attack.
yes off topic but lets try to remember what really happened there.
Who holds the North now?
Not Mpire/Fatal etc.
Therefore, use any excuse you like, they were not good enough.
I will back this dude up, RZR not being able to remove M.PIRE by themselves is uber sad. I knew a fat chunk of dudes from M.Pire, and they were all really just carebears with attitudes. Was a sad sight to watch them repeatedly beat the old north back until they put 8 alliances together to go for it.
Mad props to M.PIRE for that.
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Nethers
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.01.10 13:03:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Nethers on 10/01/2008 13:07:09
Apart from the nice formatting, and nice big vocabulary this post is no better than all the other crap posted in here.
So let me get this straight. MC leaders decided to disband with one of the biggest (if not biggest) PvP entity in EvE because all of MC's pilots now had skills to fly capitals??
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 13:12:00 -
[27]
Nice post.
Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females. |
Lem2J
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2008.01.10 13:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nethers Edited by: Nethers on 10/01/2008 13:07:09
Apart from the nice formatting, and nice big vocabulary this post is no better than all the other crap posted in here.
So let me get this straight. MC leaders decided to disband with one of the biggest (if not biggest) PvP entity in EvE because all of MC's pilots now had skills to fly capitals??
Errm i didnt read it like that.. and post with your main
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Vasq
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.01.10 13:23:00 -
[29]
Not sure how realistic this post is ... but it was very well written
Smoke me a kipper, i'll be back for breakfast! |
Fitz Chivalry
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.10 13:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Demosthenes Citium And so we are at today, where MC and friends have been involved in a bitter contest for Period Basis.
Bitter contest with whom?
A few nights ago we had some of our now pretty regular skirmishes with MC and pals around I6M area (and good fun they are too and when I went to get a mail from their board I saw that the only losses they had taken all night were from us.
If you look at the Tortugans killboards most of the kills are on random ratters and roamers, not fleet related. Hell, outbreak had twice as many kills on nubs in lo sec than they had around PB when I last looked at it.
Not to say this is not a good post overall though :)
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