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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.21 08:49:00 -
[1]
LTAMPP for short
I was a bit bored and decided to do some quick calculations to determine how much my average monthly return has been through my trading career. I was a bit surprised to see the result.
I appear to have made an average of 25.37% per month on my money. Not bad at all considering I started with a decent chunk of money (more than a billion, less than 10 billion) and have been trading for over a year and a half.
And perhaps this is me flexing my e-peen, perhaps not. I honestly think others will have a much larger value here. I expect to see some people with much higher percentages if they take the time to do the math I will provide below.
I did this calculation quickly... so please tell me if you see any errors in the formula I am listing. I believe it benefits those who start with very little. For example Ricdic's new character probably has a number like 500000% or some such. So if you started with 1 million isk you will prob show some insanely good monthly return. My 25% should look pretty pathetic compared to many numbers posted.
Here is the formula for those who wish to do it as well (in Excel)
A1 = Months You've Been Trading A2 = How much ISK you had when you first started trading A3 = 10% (You will edit this as you go, this will ultimately be your monthly percentage profit) A4 = Current ISK you have made from trading
A5 = A2*(1+A3)^(A1)
Now, change A3 until the value in A5 is nearly identical to A4.
The value in A3 is your monthly percentage profit since you've been trading.
So, post away... if you can figure out my formulas.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2008.01.21 09:21:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dr Slurm on 21/01/2008 09:22:48 Well I got bored and unsimplified equations bother me so...
I didn't proof it, but assuming your orders of operation were correct the equation should also be.
//edit: OMG Look an IMAGE!!!!!!!11! and I didn't even link it. perhaps the world will end now.
It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.01.21 09:23:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Taikun on 21/01/2008 09:25:21 Edited by: Taikun on 21/01/2008 09:23:54
53.76%
Taikun
EDIT: Heh.. I'd love to see Ricdic pet project values in here.
EDIT X2: Don't worry Slurm. I reported it so it should be cleaned up quickly.
A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation. |
EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.01.21 10:19:00 -
[4]
I suck at math. Everyone has my Rags to Riches project data so I will let them do the calculation for me
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Jack Martins
Caldari Martins Bros. Ventures
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Posted - 2008.01.21 10:27:00 -
[5]
1600%
Hehe, i just wanted to post because i've just passed my 30 day mark on my first character. I haven't posted here yet, so this will double as my "Hi all" post. I started with roughly 5 million. (had a webifier drop on my 2nd or 3rd 'real' mission that sold for 4.5 mil or so) and my current NAV is just under 80 mil. (not counting my ships, EBANK account balance, & 3 other bond investments.) I did sell 1 gtc about a week ago, but the proceeds from that went directly into 2 ravens for 2 of my buddies. I really hate math, and dont think i'm very good at it, but that boils down to about 1600% i think.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.21 11:00:00 -
[6]
Using conservative estimates of my current assets I have made an average monthly profit of 51% over the last 12 months. Though very little of that came from trading.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.21 11:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shadarle A1 = Months You've Been Trading A2 = How much ISK you had when you first started trading A3 = 10% (You will edit this as you go, this will ultimately be your monthly percentage profit) A4 = Current ISK you have made from trading
A5 = A2*(1+A3)^(A1)
A bit improved version (for Excel):
=((((B2-B1)/B1)^(1/B3))-1)*100
B1 = start ISK B2 = end ISK B3 = months of trading
It will give you your percentage.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.21 11:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer Using conservative estimates of my current assets I have made an average monthly profit of 51% over the last 12 months. Though very little of that came from trading.
After taking a bit of dip over the last 3 months it is currently well above that value. However, I'm going to throw 7B into a Jump Freighter in the next week or two which will substantially reduce my percent profit even if it does make my life a lot easier and ensure against losses.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Silent Samuel
New Eden Research and Construction
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Posted - 2008.01.21 11:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shadarle And perhaps this is me flexing my e-peen, perhaps not. I honestly think others will have a much larger value here. I expect to see some people with much higher percentages if they take the time to do the math I will provide below.
Pointed out the important stuff. I started with aprox 400 million when i went into trading a bit over a year ago. Got just below 30 billion in assets now. Anyone wanna do the math?
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.21 11:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Silent Samuel
Pointed out the important stuff. I started with aprox 400 million when i went into trading a bit over a year ago. Got just below 30 billion in assets now. Anyone wanna do the math?
It works out to 43% per month over 12 months.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
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Silent Samuel
New Eden Research and Construction
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Posted - 2008.01.21 12:03:00 -
[11]
Thank you :) Hmmm Ill just hang in there one moar year and I can hang and be cool with the self proclaimed profets
But still thanks for doing my math
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Yiasa
KronDair
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Posted - 2008.01.21 12:18:00 -
[12]
Nice formula, people using it do however also need to take into account the isk they spend and earned on things that weren't linked to there trading bis such doing the math with just the current and past wallet isk ammount does not suffice for a accurate number which people can compare there scores.
For instance when I calculated to score just using the end and begin wallet ammounts I get a meager score of 8%, but that doesnt take into account that I have spend over 10 billion isk the past year on things not linked to my bis. Which doubles my "score". So just like in the accauntency world you should define exactly what contributes and what doesnt.
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Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2008.01.21 12:30:00 -
[13]
Well I tend to trade in one month chunks, get bored, then come back and do it again a few months later...
My first foray would be: 50 mil to 5 bil over 2 months = around 895%
My second, when I ran my IPO would be: 4 bil to 10 bil over 1 month = 50%
My third would be: 5 bil to 12 bil over 1 month = 40%
All the values are fairly guestimated as I have others sources of income besides trading but it's pretty obvious that the more you start with, that harder it is to get a high monthly rate of return percentage wise.
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Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Danari
Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.21 12:57:00 -
[14]
Hmm, 12 months trading, started with 3bil in capital, 25bil profits on 129bil in sales, a paltry 20% average. I seriously must be doing something wrong. Oh that's right, I was supposed to stay logged in all day milking isk. Doh.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.21 16:50:00 -
[15]
Remember, starting with a very low value drastically increases your percentage. So if you started in the billions it is harder to get a high number.
I thought it was more of a fun number more than anything else as it doesn't really have any meaning.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Prodigal
Caldari New Genesis Project
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Posted - 2008.01.21 16:55:00 -
[16]
Wow
Ive never been good at keeping track of month to month things.
I have always calculated my returns on a project by project basis.
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Manentia
manic-recession
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Posted - 2008.01.22 02:02:00 -
[17]
132%, 100mil -> 37bil, 7 months.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.22 04:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Manentia 132%, 100mil -> 37bil, 7 months.
Nice! Did you manage that completely by trading or did you branch out into something a tad higher risk like reactors?
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.22 04:50:00 -
[19]
woot, -70% \o/
do i win the cookie? ----------------------
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing |
Billinda Gates
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Posted - 2008.01.22 05:44:00 -
[20]
1100%, 20m --> 2.9b in 2 months (45 days to be exact), and this is with the starting trading skills :P.
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Robacz Edited by: Robacz on 21/01/2008 11:37:01
Originally by: Shadarle A1 = Months You've Been Trading A2 = How much ISK you had when you first started trading A3 = 10% (You will edit this as you go, this will ultimately be your monthly percentage profit) A4 = Current ISK you have made from trading
A5 = A2*(1+A3)^(A1)
A bit improved version (for Excel):
=((((B2-B1)/B1)^(1/B3))-1)*100
B1 = start ISK B2 = end ISK B3 = months of trading
It will give you your percentage.
edit: hm it gives some weird values for low input numbers... but it returns same result as Shaderle's when I use my values, not sure whats wrong... maybe those math classes weren't as useless as I thought heh.
Solution to Shadarle equation: = ( ((B2/B1)^(1/B3)) - 1 )*100
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vie Victus
Gadrel Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.22 15:54:00 -
[22]
To the OP: 25% return on 10b+ sounds pretty damn good to me. It's hard to leverage larger and larger volumes of ISK effectively.
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Proton Power
Amarr Power Corrupts Tech Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.22 16:35:00 -
[23]
Looking at old spread sheets I created, I bought 82,541,302,123 isk worth of goods, I sold 101,435,345,201 worth of goods. Not everything sold though, I have about 1bil isk worth of stuff sitting in the station still. I also had to carrier this stuff in so that cost me some isk in fuels and such. This was just one station and I stocked it for a little over 2mths. So not sure how good or bad this is. -----------------------------------------------
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli |
Kunosoura
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Posted - 2008.01.22 16:36:00 -
[24]
I started a trade alt to see if I liked it. I managed to stick with it for about a month and a half. I used the starter cash and 10000 isk donation from my main, mostly to pay for a shuttle. I didn't want to fly a noob ship. :)
Nov 13: 15000 isk Dec 27: 1.2 million isk
%1600, roughly. It just wasn't as much fun as shooting stuff though, so I only traded about 3-4 times a week. Maybe I should try it with a larger initial bankroll.
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Katherine Sharpe
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Posted - 2008.01.22 18:31:00 -
[25]
For me there seemed to be a big flat line at around 250 mill. I think it had to do with maxing out orders and not seeing the turnaround that you were expecting and so a declining percentage growth.
The next big hurdle for me was in the 750-850mill bracket where I had to switch my mindset in terms of size and scale. Percentage profit on low cost items was just not adding up. A 500% markup on 100 items that are purchased at 10K, just isn't the same percentage boost.
100mill - 250mill - most order prices in 100K-500K range 250mill - 750 mill - most orders in 100-1 mill range 750mill+ - most orders in > 1 mill range.
The point being that for me there was a rapid percentage growth then flat lined and then another growth phase and flat line. Now that I am well over 2 bill I see another flat line coming.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.22 19:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Katherine Sharpe For me there seemed to be a big flat line at around 250 mill. I think it had to do with maxing out orders and not seeing the turnaround that you were expecting and so a declining percentage growth.
The next big hurdle for me was in the 750-850mill bracket where I had to switch my mindset in terms of size and scale. Percentage profit on low cost items was just not adding up. A 500% markup on 100 items that are purchased at 10K, just isn't the same percentage boost.
100mill - 250mill - most order prices in 100K-500K range 250mill - 750 mill - most orders in 100-1 mill range 750mill+ - most orders in > 1 mill range.
The point being that for me there was a rapid percentage growth then flat lined and then another growth phase and flat line. Now that I am well over 2 bill I see another flat line coming.
I had some similar issues where my rate of growth slowed or even stopped, but I always managed to find a way to boost it back up.
If I knew then what I know now I could easily have made the same money in half the time. I wasted a lot of time trading some stupid stuff back in the day. I also wasn't trading some things I should have been.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.22 19:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shadarle
If I knew then what I know now I could easily have made the same money in half the time. I wasted a lot of time trading some stupid stuff back in the day. I also wasn't trading some things I should have been.
I know how you feel. I wish I'd gotten into reactions a long time ago, I'd have tens of billions more right now if I had. I honestly can't imagine ever going back to my paltry 25M an hour running L4's or grinding standing for research agents.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Mr McCargo
The Paradox Continium
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Posted - 2008.01.22 19:31:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mr McCargo on 22/01/2008 19:31:47 Start ISK: 5.000 Current ISK: 18.000.000.000 (rounded up) Months traded: 4.5
LTAMPP: 2763%
I started to play Eve only because of the trading, so it is all earned purely from trading. I would probably have more, but I've donated alot and blown up some ships (I really suck at missions. Started doing level 2's with a Domi) and all my GTC's (except the very first one) have been bought from ISK. In a few months the monthly average will probably fall below 100% though.
- Mr C |
Mr McCargo
The Paradox Continium
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Posted - 2008.01.22 19:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Mr McCargo on 22/01/2008 19:32:05 Double post.
- Mr C |
Kentoku Shiro
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.01.22 23:43:00 -
[30]
For comparison, a now deceased ninja promethium mining project managed to earn 115% despite the total loss of all poses involved, though the Rorqual used for hauling survived and is included in the initial isk calculations along with the first tower and first months fuel.
Posting as an alt for obvious reasons.
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