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Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.01.24 13:32:00 -
[31]
You should work in your accounting before any expansion. I think is completely unacceptable that you still havenÆt fixed your statistics in your own website. This is not a new issue and I have raised this issue before. Any solid deadlines as to when the statistics page will be fixed?
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Dreysine
Paratheoanametamystichood
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Posted - 2008.01.24 13:42:00 -
[32]
i concur with the suggestion of CD's. But i am sure you dont need us to tell you that.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.01.24 13:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Block Ukx Any solid deadlines as to when the statistics page will be fixed?
Yes. You'll be notified of the deadline, in strictest confidence, no less than 5 minutes after the fix is made. This doesn't mean shoddy accounting though. There's simply a bug in that page that is one the list of things to do for the overworked programming staff. The fix is likely something simple... finding where to fix the code is not proving to be so simple. And no, I don't know the specifics. I'm not a coder so I truly hope I don't have to eventually know the specifics. I do know that an audit can be done directly from the logs but the human eye & brain is much more adaptable and intuitive than automated process with a glitch somewhere in it. |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.24 13:49:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Block Ukx You should work in your accounting before any expansion. I think is completely unacceptable that you still havenÆt fixed your statistics in your own website. This is not a new issue and I have raised this issue before. Any solid deadlines as to when the statistics page will be fixed?
This is a pain point for me. We've had it fixed on our test site but then we ran into problems with it (it tended to break). I'm hoping to have this released soon, but there are challenges with the way we adjust things sometimes. I've considered simplifying our statistics but I'm not in love with that idea either, so as an interm fix I've been coming up with some discussion around each statistic. I have not made this live yet, but will do so this before Monday.
That said, I've never seen anyone dispute their account balance as being incorrect.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Siri Blue
Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.24 15:15:00 -
[35]
If you want to invest more Billions at 1.5% interest - just contact me ;) I bet I can even provide securities ;D
Re-Introduce Non-ISK-Mission rewards, please. |
Mr Horizontal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.24 15:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Block Ukx You should work in your accounting before any expansion. I think is completely unacceptable that you still havenÆt fixed your statistics in your own website. This is not a new issue and I have raised this issue before. Any solid deadlines as to when the statistics page will be fixed?
This is a pain point for me. We've had it fixed on our test site but then we ran into problems with it (it tended to break).
Well given how different the new version of the database is given the sheer amount of new bells and whistles we're introducing it's not exactly surprising it's incompatible.
To really answer Block's post I don't believe it's particularly unacceptable we haven't fixed a stats page with loan stats that are really none of your business nor are we as EBANK under any obligation to even publish!
So basically the status is this is bottom-of-the-pile priority with a 50/50 chance of being pulled if there's any further trolling on the subject
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Trilori
Caldari GearBox Fleet Svcs
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Posted - 2008.01.24 16:46:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Siri Blue If you want to invest more Billions at 1.5% interest - just contact me ;) I bet I can even provide securities ;D
this isn't a place for you to advertise your need for 1B at 1.5% either... besides nobody would give it to you that low.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Block Ukx You should work in your accounting before any expansion. I think is completely unacceptable that you still havenÆt fixed your statistics in your own website. This is not a new issue and I have raised this issue before. Any solid deadlines as to when the statistics page will be fixed?
This is a pain point for me. We've had it fixed on our test site but then we ran into problems with it (it tended to break).
Well given how different the new version of the database is given the sheer amount of new bells and whistles we're introducing it's not exactly surprising it's incompatible.
To really answer Block's post I don't believe it's particularly unacceptable we haven't fixed a stats page with loan stats that are really none of your business nor are we as EBANK under any obligation to even publish!
So basically the status is this is bottom-of-the-pile priority with a 50/50 chance of being pulled if there's any further trolling on the subject
Well, it isn't a huge priority, but it is something I'm looking to clear up. As has been stated before; EBANK is an entirely private operation and is collectively owned by the Board of Directors.
As such, we are under no paticularly requirement to report to the public, only to the "owners". The Board recieves the same reports as the public but also recieves the opinions and analysis of people on the Operational side of things which the public will not see.
This is getting into a bigger discussion, which normally I would avoid, but given the context of what we're talking about here just stay with me for a minute:
EBANK's current and future Reporting requirements
There is no precident of a private entity reporting to the public out of obligation, and in terms of what EBANK does; it is a general courtesy and a service to our account holders.
EBANK will almost certainly never sell any shares. This would take ownership away from the Board of Directors and is deemed undesireable in general as it would saddle the Bank with further requirements and obligations. I can not imagine a scenario that would prompt the Board to vote in favor of a measure such as this.
EBANK may very well sell bonds as an alternative method to raising cash. However, as is generally accepted by precident within the EVE Markets and in part by real-world models...reporting on Bonds is generally not required.
Why EBANK acts the way it does
EBANK has always grown in a measured, controlled, conservative fashion. Sometimes this does cause debates within EBANK, but the reasoning for this always comes back to making the Bank as solid as possible. The foundation of what EBANK is, and how it works makes it extremely resiliant. This will always be a focus.
So why raise Checking account caps to 1 billion?
It is simply the cheapest way for EBANK to raise money. Period. I should also point out that EBANK is only one Banking option available to people...FuryBank offers a much higher return and also that many IPO's do very competative rates as well. EBANK has always had an eye on providing services that others don't and that is its chief selling point and not the rate of return that it offers. Generally speaking, Bank accounts are not primary investment vehicles and the Checking and Savings accounts were not intended for this.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal
To really answer Block's post I don't believe it's particularly unacceptable we haven't fixed a stats page with loan stats that are really none of your business nor are we as EBANK under any obligation to even publish!
So basically the status is this is bottom-of-the-pile priority with a 50/50 chance of being pulled if there's any further trolling on the subject
I disagree. EBANK is about to become one of the largest, if not the largest, EVE institutions handling public funds. The lack of priority given to proper accounting is very concerning, bearing in mind you are a BANK.
Is this how you plan to answer concerns risen by the public? ônone of your business,ö and threaten to do nothing about it.
I hope you let Hexxx handle public concerns next time.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Fury Banker
Fury Bank Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hexxx EBANK will almost certainly never sell any shares. This would take ownership away from the Board of Directors and is deemed undesireable in general as it would saddle the Bank with further requirements and obligations. I can not imagine a scenario that would prompt the Board to vote in favor of a measure such as this.
Only quoted this part, as the rest of your post I agree with.
Whilst EBank may not intend to sell any shares, what's the procedure if a Director leaves? Is there a compulsory buy-back of his/her shares? If not, then the potential for ownership by non-directors already exists.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.01.24 18:11:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Block Ukx I disagree.
You are entitled to but you are wrong. Originally by: Block Ukx The lack of priority given to proper accounting is very concerning, bearing in mind you are a BANK.
This is bombastic and reckless. Perhaps your time would be better spent looking at who you give access to the corp hangars? Or explaining to your investors that they've lost out instead of taking the loss onto yourself for unrelated charges or your own mistaken judgement? See, it's easy to make specious allegations. I'm just disappointed that you are the one making them. So, to clear this up... what is wrong with the accounting system? I mean besides a quick summary page that is currently " in development". Because being able to look at the records, directly, I see nothing wrong with our accounting, process, or management. So please, inform us all what's this unaddressed problem you're wasting so much of our time over. |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.24 19:35:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Hexxx on 24/01/2008 19:36:38
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Mr Horizontal
To really answer Block's post I don't believe it's particularly unacceptable we haven't fixed a stats page with loan stats that are really none of your business nor are we as EBANK under any obligation to even publish!
So basically the status is this is bottom-of-the-pile priority with a 50/50 chance of being pulled if there's any further trolling on the subject
I disagree. EBANK is about to become one of the largest, if not the largest, EVE institutions handling public funds. The lack of priority given to proper accounting is very concerning, bearing in mind you are a BANK.
Is this how you plan to answer concerns risen by the public? ônone of your business,ö and threaten to do nothing about it.
I hope you let Hexxx handle public concerns next time.
Yes, EBANK is going to be getting very large with it's next phase, however...the size of an entity does not determine that entities obligation for public reporting. EBANK could be several hundred billion isk in size and this would not change.
We do limited reporting for the public to give people an idea of where we're at and as a peek inside our inner workings. Our internal reporting is far more rigerious but also involves alot of discussion and explanations. We're improving this before the next Phase but these improvements are all internal...the public will not see them.
We can not run EBANK effectively without knowing where our money is, how much we're making, and what our liabilities are.
Now, the message of "it's none of your business" may be a blunt way to put it, but there's truth to it. As I've said, EBANK is a private banking entity and is under no obligation based on precident within market discussions to report on it's inner workings. Personally, I think it'd be foolish not to report to some degree, but in terms of completeness and detail...we are aware of what we're reporting and are comfortable with that level.
To some degree, people have to trust us at the end of the day (and me in paticular) to keep them aware of any operational issues within EBANK...which includes cash problems, losses, etc. For example, when EBANK takes a loss through the collapse/scam of an IPO or a loan default; we will let people know.
EBANK does try to be transparent.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.01.24 19:40:00 -
[43]
Hexxx,
Thank you very much to address my concern.
Sincerely, Block Ukx
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.24 20:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Block Ukx Hexxx,
Thank you very much to address my concern.
Sincerely, Block Ukx
I hope I was able to hit upon all the points you were interested in.
EBANK is in an interesting position whereby no one has really done anything quite like it before. Generally the larger projects you see here on the MD Forums are firmly within the public realm (i.e. IPO's or something very similiar) but with EBANK it is not. I'm extremely aware of this unique position and I do try to maintain a balance in terms of reporting.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Mr Horizontal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.24 21:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Block Ukx Hexxx,
Thank you very much to address my concern.
Sincerely, Block Ukx
...and sorry for being blunt.
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Mr Horizontal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.25 00:29:00 -
[46]
Official EBANK Announcement http://www.eve-bank.net/ New Interim Release
Hey all,
Hexxx believes I haven't done enough to promote the fact I'm one of the developers of EBANK, and believes I need to announce more stuff. As I'm not a board member I didn't assume to make any official announcements. Anyway, Hexxx has basically ordered me to do this, so blame him!
Basically this release was to synchronise the database schema on the live site with the development site. However, in order to do so, there have been so many changes under the hood, that some of the changes that are outwardly visible just had to be released as well. And some extra stuff for you all to play with that we had already developed and bedded in. So here they are:
Checking Account Cap Increased to 1b As Hexxx announced earlier, checking accounts have had their deposit cap increased to 1b. So EBANK will now allow you to transfer 500m into your Savings and 1b into your checking. No surprises there.
Stats page updated You can now see the historic loan stats of EBANK as well as the current status of the loan account. (and a special present for Block Ukx )
Name Your Own Accounts As the most frequently requested suggestion, you can now name your own accounts!
Cash Accounts A lot of you suggested you wanted wallets and divisions. This isn't possible in EBANK, but you can open as many accounts as you wish. So for a one-off 25,000 ISK fee you can have your very own cash account. Cash accounts are just like Sweep accounts, and are not interest bearing. They are just an extra account which you can name differently that holds ISK.
Issues This is a big release behind the scenes, although it may not seem so. I'd be foolish if I didn't expect to see some occasional explosions. If you encounter any problems please report it on EBANK's Bug Hunter forum. We will be on the ball for any issues that may arise, but please remain calm if you spot anything!
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Mr Horizontal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.25 00:31:00 -
[47]
One more thing... * You didn't think that was all did you?!
Yes, the new big feature we're giving you now is Shared accounts. Via the same process as opening a cash account, you can also open a Shared account.
Shared accounts are accounts that can be accessed by other EBANKers that you trust. You can now assign roles to a Shared account: Owner, Deposit and Withdraw. At least one user has to be an Owner of a Shared account. Other people can also be made Owners, or just given Deposit and Withdraw roles. Anyone who has a role at all will be able to see the account.
So Shared accounts. Yours for just 200,000.00 ISK :D
* hehe, OK, it was Hexxx's idea to copy Mr. Jobs's little gag, but what the hey ;)
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Dal Thrax
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.25 02:07:00 -
[48]
Any chance you can set up an account type that requires two "signatures" to withdraw and perhaps will send everybody on the account a mail and implement a 12 hour delay if somebody tries to withdraw more then 20% of the total account value within 24 hours.
Dal Thrax CEO Multiverse Corporation Sig? I don't need no stinking sig... |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.25 02:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dal Thrax Any chance you can set up an account type that requires two "signatures" to withdraw and perhaps will send everybody on the account a mail and implement a 12 hour delay if somebody tries to withdraw more then 20% of the total account value within 24 hours.
Dal Thrax CEO Multiverse Corporation
This is a brilliant idea, the signatures part. I'd probable never use it... but I can see others using it. I can also see it being useful for some IPO's in the future. It would allow E-Bank to be used as a place to store IPO money which is controlled by a respected member of the community and that person can allow the person running the IPO access to funds once they've discussed what it is needed for, etc. Similar to the way Shar and Benvie work on RDIR.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.25 03:21:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Dal Thrax Any chance you can set up an account type that requires two "signatures" to withdraw and perhaps will send everybody on the account a mail and implement a 12 hour delay if somebody tries to withdraw more then 20% of the total account value within 24 hours.
Dal Thrax CEO Multiverse Corporation
I agree, this type of functionalty is an excellent idea. Real services like this will make EBank a very useful corporation and not just a "low interest investment" which is how some people view it now (which it isn't meant to be).
Ze logs show NOTHING! ~ Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.25 03:41:00 -
[51]
What I think will make Ebank "a very useful corporation and not just a 'low interest investment'" is two advancements that seem to be a ways off by Ebank's preference. 1) CDs and the substantial increase both in lending and interests that goes with them. 2) getting so large and ubiquitous that they actually see a large number of internal transactions that reflect trading between unrelated corporations rather than simple managing of invested funds, in other words people actually use them to handle their business needs rather than simply borrowing or investing ISK.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Mehixa
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Posted - 2008.01.25 05:23:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Mehixa on 25/01/2008 05:23:33 alt-tastic
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Kaaii
Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.01.25 11:11:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Kaaii on 25/01/2008 11:16:54 A feature Id like to see added..
"Credit Rating"
I know each account has one, I'd just like to log in and see what it is. Obviously, this would be some base form, some number derived from basic info, deposits etc. But according to web site, if I, for example want to take out a loan, I enter the field and press the button.
Following this EBANK will provide you a loan typically with 10-15% interest depending on the collateral you've provided and your credit rating with EBANK.
Does my EBANK credit rating move over time, amount on deposit, withdrawal, loans paid (or defaulted on).
-----
While I'm not a huge investor(yet) in EBANK, I see this service as a way of increasing my personal "clout" if you will, in the form of a community based rating. Yes I know, it could be a popularity contest, and I wouldn't want that, but if some sort of scale could be implemented, and reported to, the account holder, that would be nice. Following this, would EBANK publish/list this info as well, or make it available to a query (maybe from/only(?), existing EBANK account holders?
Just some random thoughts this morning, but still, on my mind..
Thanks Kaaii
/edit - This thread, made me think about this..
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Mr Horizontal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.25 11:52:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dal Thrax Any chance you can set up an account type that requires two "signatures" to withdraw and perhaps will send everybody on the account a mail and implement a 12 hour delay if somebody tries to withdraw more then 20% of the total account value within 24 hours.
Dal Thrax CEO Multiverse Corporation
Originally by: Shadarle This is a brilliant idea, the signatures part. I'd probable never use it... but I can see others using it. I can also see it being useful for some IPO's in the future.
This is a good idea, and while I understand the need to do this, I wouldn't want to introduce code that is there only to satisfy politics thus adding complexity to EBANK's account mechanics unless there's a real need that's essential to a lot of customers rather than just a few. And as Shad says, he probably wouldn't use it...
This is partly why Shared accounts are like they are and not specifically corporate accounts which while possible from further API queries wouldn't work as freely as the current method.
In order for special escrow services, I'd suggest you contact an EBANK teller and they can then be made the Owner of the Shared account. Obviously a teller would need to process any withdrawal, so it's not a big deal if it's them who starts the withdrawal request at your nod.
Also, you can have a number of shared accounts - you're not limited to one, so you can have one account with one person who can only withdraw from that account that has a certain balance etc.
So the basis for the sigs is if there's a lot of need to do them, I'll introduce them. Otherwise, I'll let the tellers handle it. That OK?
Originally by: Astorothe Real services like this will make EBank a very useful corporation and not just a "low interest investment" which is how some people view it now (which it isn't meant to be).
Aye. As you can see, the features we've been rolling out slowly with P2P transfers and Shared accounts is about using your ISK with EBANK as a vessel rather than just as an investment. Of course, these hardly scratch the surface in terms of true usefulness right now, but in time, we expect they'll grow to be really important.
Originally by: Kwint Sommer What I think will make Ebank "a very useful corporation and not just a 'low interest investment'" is two advancements that seem to be a ways off by Ebank's preference. 1) CDs and the substantial increase both in lending and interests that goes with them.
Please read Hexxx's posts above about CD's. Let me nerf this idea bluntly (but hopefully politely)
CD's aren't even on the radar! Why? You have to look at the business case for them. Interest for CD's is paid for out of a business requirement to borrow the capital for a set time without any worry for withdrawing that cash for that time. In essence a CD is so ridiculously similar to a bond that it shouldn't be a problem, but it's the latter option EBANK would introduce.
At the end of the day if EBANK needed extra capital it would release a bond. Bonds are far more preferable to CD's because they are flexible. They allow EBANK to have different maturity dates and allow EBANK to set the interest rate to a rate that's reflective of the current economic outlook and requirement at that time. CD's once introduced set a precedent, and that makes it inflexible for EBANK to operate under, thus we will not introduce them.
Hope that clears up the confusion.
Originally by: Kwint Sommer 2) getting so large and ubiquitous that they actually see a large number of internal transactions that reflect trading between unrelated corporations rather than simple managing of invested funds, in other words people actually use them to handle their business needs rather than simply borrowing or investing ISK.
Damn Hexxx, Ricdic!, the Grand Plan(tm)'s been foiled!
Kwint, you've just touched on pretty much EBANK's raison d'etre! But there's plenty more to come
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Mr Horizontal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.25 11:54:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kaaii Credit Rating
Big discussion here about them, including our current ideas within EBANK.
For the record, everyone, please discuss as avidly as possible about RIPOs and credit rating in that thread. You have no idea how important ratification of the ideas in that thread is to our development schedule for EBANK!
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:32:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal
Originally by: Kaaii Credit Rating
Big discussion here about them, including our current ideas within EBANK.
For the record, everyone, please discuss as avidly as possible about RIPOs and credit rating in that thread. You have no idea how important ratification of the ideas in that thread is to our development schedule for EBANK!
No one has commented on the shared accounts functionality...can we get some feedback?
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Hexxx can we get some feedback?
I gave that feed to my horse, if you want it back you'll have to go digging.
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Bouncer Ricdic
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Posted - 2008.01.25 17:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Hexxx No one has commented on the shared accounts functionality...can we get some feedback?
As I have said in our EBANK board forums and on MSN to you and Horizontal I think they are a fantastic starting ground but they really need the ability to place restrictions as was mentioned above.
My line of thinking was a little different to the other person (who suggested 2 people needing to sign for it) in that I was suggesting you could give someone limited take access and then be able to choose the limitations (ie cannot withdraw more than 20m per day, or whatever). Basically the fields you enter can help you regulate who has how much access.
CCP already has shared wallet access in-game. What CCP doesn't have is the ability to limit that shared wallet access. I think that's the direction EBANK needs to go with shared accounts, in providing features that aren't possible or are too tediuos in-game.
Just my 2c
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Richard Kitan
United Space Republic Research
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Posted - 2008.01.25 17:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hexxx
No one has commented on the shared accounts functionality...can we get some feedback?
I think the shared accounts thing is great. I currently have an ebank account, but I tossed something small like 15m in it back during the initial opening, and haven't really touched it since. Shared accounts might actually give me a reason to use it more. Having cash somewhere that both my PvP account(s) and my income-generating account can get to it is a pretty darn good feeature. --
Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff |
SencneS
Amarr Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.25 17:58:00 -
[60]
"I'm an EBank investor.", "Invested ISK into EBank.". "I would invest in EBank if he had a better return."
This is an impression EBank is trying to shack. I believe most of us at EBank want EBank to be viewed as a service rather then an investment. As far as Investments go we're pretty low interest, something to just entice you to keep your ISK with us as you use us as a service. Some of the new features that will be added to EBank should help with this "Investment" image.
I'm not saying you should yank your ISK from EBank and throw it into a real IPO, just because we don't want to be considered an "Investment." We offer some return simply because people have idle isk and don't trust some IPOs, those should throw their spare ISK into EBank because it's at least giving them something. However in the future EBank will look more like a service or a business companion to EVE rather then an Investment to throw a billion or two into.
Amarr for Life |
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