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Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.27 05:03:00 -
[1]
This is an old idea from a year ago. I have since refined it for the post Rorqual era. Basically, I believe CCP made a mistake in releasing the Rorqual without ANY stepping stones to it. ItÆs not that it is a bad ship, itÆs just that it tackled too many things at once. It does solve a lot of problems, but those problems would have been better served by multiple specialized craft than the one nber mining support ship. IÆm certainly not saying the Rorqual should go, IÆm just saying there should be smaller craft to fill partial roles, most notably, that of a mining oriented command ship.
To this end, I present (again) the Prospector class mining support ships. These are tech 1 ORE ships; each specialized in some of the non-mining roles involved in a mining op. There are three ships, one for scouting, and two designed for in belt coordination of medium and large mining ops. These provide a lot of the sought after benefits of the Rorqual, without the ridiculous price and skill requirements.
New Spaceship Command skill:
Prospecting (rank 5) Skill at operating Prospectors Prerequisites: Astrogeology III, Spaceship Command III
New Prospector Class |
Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.27 05:04:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Clansworth on 27/01/2008 05:06:42 Ant (ORE Syndicate)
The Ant's primary role is the rapid scouting and screening of possible mining locations. The Syndicate has equipped this frigate sized hull with the speed and electronics required to complete this task in minimal time and maximum efficiency.
Prospecting skill bonus:
- 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level
- 10% bonus to Max Velocity per level
Role Bonus:
- 50% reduction in CPU need of modules requiring Astrometrics.
- 250% Bonus to Survey Scanner range.
PG/CPU................175/250 Slots H/M/L..........3/2/1 Turret/Launcher...2/1 Velocity...............325m/sec Cargo Capacityà..400m¦ Shield (resists)à..400 (0/60/40/20) Armor (resists)à..350 (70/10/25/35)
Skills:
New Prospector Class |
Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.27 05:05:00 -
[3]
Mole (ORE Syndicate)
ORE designed the Mole to provide coordination and support to its highly specialized mining teams. This cruiser sized ship makes its rounds through the team, making adjustments and repairs that keep the team working at its top productivity.
Prospecting skill bonus:
- 3% bonus to effectiveness of Mining Foreman Links per level
Logistics skill bonus:
- 15% reduction in Shield Transfer Array capacitor use per level
- 15% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer capacitor use per level
Role Bonus:
- 99% reduction in mining foreman link module CPU need.
- 500% bonus to Survey Scanner range
PG/CPU................525/350 Slots H/M/L..........5/5/3 Turret/Launcher...2/2 Drone Bay............25m¦ Velocity...............200m/sec Cargo Capacityà.750m¦ Shield (resists).à.600 (0/60/40/20) Armor (resists).à.800 (70/10/25/35)
Skills:
- Prospecting II
- Logistics I
- Mining Director I
New Prospector Class |
Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.27 05:06:00 -
[4]
Armadillo (ORE Syndicate)
The Armadillo is a real workhorse. While its size and tough skin might resemble a battlecruiser, it is most at home picking through asteroids, and directing barges to the richest ore. In experienced hands, its advanced electronics can turn any rag tag group of workers into a highly efficient, managed team, capable of stripping every last spec of valuable ore from any belt.
Prospecting skill bonus:
- 5% bonus to effectiveness of Mining Foreman Links per level
- 50% bonus to Tractor Beam range per level
Logistics skill bonus:
- 15% reduction in Shield Transfer Array capacitor use per level
- 15% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer capacitor use per level
Role Bonus:
- 99% reduction in Mining Foreman Link module CPU need. Can use 3 modules simultaneously.
- 500% bonus to Survey Scanner range
PG/CPU................655/650 Slots H/M/L..........7/5/5 Turret/Launcher...4/2 Drone Bay............50m¦ Velocity...............120m/sec Cargo Capacityà..1250m¦ Shield (resists)à..1250 (0/60/40/20) Armor (resists)à..2400 (70/10/25/35)
Skills:
- Prospecting IV
- Logistics IV
- Mining Director III
New Prospector Class |
xena zena
Dragons of Redemption Academy Trinity.
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Posted - 2008.01.27 06:39:00 -
[5]
if anything your prospecting skill should require exhumers V
likewise the ones that run command links HAVE to be command ship variations, thus require the same requirements to fly a command ship.
Links are command ship and capital class modules ONLY.
plus really a rorqual isn't crazy high skill requirement and expensive... 2.5bn is about what you'd pay for any decently fit dread. And it's skill requirements arn't excessive for a capital level ship.
IMHO, we don't need some crazy mining bonus ship that is easy to get into. That would just decrease the mineral values even more. BAD idea.
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Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.27 07:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: xena zena if anything your prospecting skill should require exhumers V
likewise the ones that run command links HAVE to be command ship variations, thus require the same requirements to fly a command ship.
Links are command ship and capital class modules ONLY.
Hate to break it to ya, but battlecruisers can fit command links as well, and the skill requirements for them are considerably less than the skill requirements for the Mole and Armadillo.
A Ferox requires: Spaceship Command IV - 45,255sp Caldari Frigate IV - 90,510sp Caldari Cruiser III - 40,000sp Battlecruisers I - 1,500sp - Total: 177,265sp
The Mole requires: Prospecting II - 7,070sp Astrogeology III - 24,000sp Science IV - 45,255sp Mining IV - 45,255sp Spaceship Command III - 8,000sp Logistics I - 1,500sp Signature Analysis V - 256,000sp Electornics II - 1,414sp Long Range Targeting V - 512,000sp Mining Director I - 1,250sp Leadership I - 250sp Mining Foreman V - 512,000sp - Total: 1,413,994sp
Originally by: xena zena
plus really a rorqual isn't crazy high skill requirement and expensive... 2.5bn is about what you'd pay for any decently fit dread. And it's skill requirements arn't excessive for a capital level ship.
you are correct that the Rorqual's skills/cost are not high for a capital ship. I was pointing out that one shouldn't have to spend that much isk/skills to get a small subset of the rorquals abilities, most importantly, the link bonus. Originally by: xena zena
IMHO, we don't need some crazy mining bonus ship that is easy to get into. That would just decrease the mineral values even more. BAD idea.
What we DON'T need is primarily industrial character having to train combat ships to be able to get the best industrial abilities.
New Prospector Class |
Taris Gedar
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.01.27 07:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Taris Gedar on 27/01/2008 07:55:00
Originally by: xena zena if anything your prospecting skill should require exhumers V [...] And it's skill requirements arn't excessive for a capital level ship.
lol ..the Rorqual and "skill requirements arn't excessive"? Ok, the ship itself probably not ("only" 2 months), but don't forget all the modules and especially the blueprints and the Mining Foreman Mindlink. I am quite a skilled miner myself and when i am done with all the skills it took me about 5-6 months for it and being finally better than a command ship. The costs are the same as for a Dread ..the Rorqual is even about 300-400Mil more expensive and the skillcosts are the same as for a Carrierpilot.
The exhumer skill is for tech2 ships ..unfortunately most people forget that and even the devs said that (maybe with Invention later on ..)
Back to topic ..nice ideas, but i doubt the Mole will get much attention. Frigs are good for fast belt scanning and the Ant got the survey scanner range bonus. And if you do not have a Rorqual in your team the Armadillo would be my choice, because of the 5% bonus to effectiveness of Mining Foreman Links per level.
The Mole has right the same bonuses as the Armadillo besides the 2% difference with the Mining Foreman Links effectiveness and 50% bonus to Tractor Beam range per level - no need for me to use it.
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Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.27 08:03:00 -
[8]
I was intending a pretty hefty price difference between the Mole and the Armadillo. The Armadillo has got a much better tank, more cargo, and the bigger mining link bonus. I am open to suggestions as to a more specific role for the mole. I had originally had the Repping bonuses only on the mole, but at some point decided the armadillo should have them as well.
New Prospector Class |
shady trader
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Posted - 2008.01.27 10:05:00 -
[9]
CCP are already working on a smaller version of the Rorqual call the Orca. It will not have the jump drive so it can travel and operate in empire.
There is a thread in the stations section of the forums were people have been posting there ideas for this ship. However its only one ship planned there, the idea of having a scout ship designed to find good ore is intresting. It would be very helpful then we go to exploration based belts.
Once the long range ore scanners come out the bonus on this ship would be very usefull.
Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions. |
Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.27 16:55:00 -
[10]
Yeah, I know about the orca. My fear is that they will make it capital in size, and by that, capital in skill/cost, which doesn't make sense if all you are looking for is a mining link platform.
New Prospector Class |
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xena zena
Dragons of Redemption Academy Trinity.
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Posted - 2008.01.27 16:59:00 -
[11]
Yes but you can only fit 1 module and it doesn't get bonuses.
I can concede that another ORE class command ship that gets mining bonuses of 3% would be maybe acceptable. But anything less then command ship that gives actual bonuses to the modules and can use more then one isn't acceptable, imho. But that should require mining skills of at least mining barge V on top of the command ship skills.
Skill wise it isn't excessive. Most people who would be using it would be using it for it's logistic purposes (flying 126,000m3 of stuff in it's cargo) and/or for solely compression purposes. Likely the character that you'd be using this on would be an effective t2 crystal using hulk pilot anyway. And the mining yield of the hulk with t2 crystals far outweighs the income bonus of the rorquals max bonuses anyway for anything but huge mining gangs (which is fairly uncommon for the environment, 0.0, that the rorqual would be used in.) Which means training to max link bonus skills isn't really effective unless you regularly mine in HUGE gangs (haven't done the math, but its quite a lot of people for the difference to be greater on bonuses).
And your wrong if you don't think an easy to obtain mining bonus ship wouldn't effect the mineral market. If its only a month or two to train an alt into one its far more feasible to train that on a non-mining alt which would boost the yield of the gang and not sacrifice a mining alt.
As for the 'orca' I think it is very unlikely that ship will actually make it to tranquility. If it does I expect it would be just as high skill requirements as the rorqual. _________________________
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Typheonic
Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2008.01.28 20:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Typheonic on 28/01/2008 20:31:51 Greetings,
I saw your previous thread regarding these ideas and I was interested then as I am now. I am not sure though you're on the right track here with these ships. The Ant is going the right direction in my opinion, but the Mole and Armadillo don't seem very useful.
First, in the past the ORE Syndicate based their designs along Gallente lines with larger drone bays for defense. I am wondering why you went for such small drone bays in the case of the Mole and the Armadillo, and no drone bay for the Ant? They, like mining barges, are virtually defenseless even with the drones and the layouts you describe only provide very limited tanking abilities. I would think there is room here to have ships which truly address the vulnerability of mining operations.
Another thing I am seeing here are variations on logistics ships in the Mole and Armadillo so that they can carry command links. My question would be ôis remote repair really needed at allö? If these ships are centered around high-sec operations then when will these remote repairing abilities ever be needed? If these are intended for more hostile space why have one of these ships on hand instead of a battlecruiser? Instead of remote repairing bonuses I would think tanking bonuses would be more appropriate.
The final note I would put here is that none of these vessels address the realities of mining as it is now. The Orca's discussion I think is more in line in that the issue is one of ore handling and transport, not finding an appropriate vehicle for command links. The Rorqual addresses this on a large scale to handle deep space operations. I would think any additional ships from ORE would handle this just on a smaller scale.
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Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr I-Omniscient-I
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Posted - 2008.01.28 20:40:00 -
[13]
Wasn't there talk already for a mini Rorqual? The Orca? *** "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told, I'm a child of the moon and a Goddess among men." Free pint of blood for the Dev who agrees |
Riame
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Posted - 2008.01.28 22:53:00 -
[14]
/signed I wanted a command ship that was specific to mining but not requiring barges trained to 5. The rorqual requires barges 5, but cannot itself mine. This is stupid. Command ships get a bonus to their links but are also capable of participating in combat.
As for a prospector class, it ought to be an ORE class ship and as such provide a mining foreman link bonus, be able to mine, and be able to field drones. It should be the ORE command ship.
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Kever Shigenaga
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Posted - 2008.03.30 00:37:00 -
[15]
Bump for great justice and,
/Signed ... sorta
I belive your thoughts are in the right place, and you put a fair amount of effort into the ships, -however- I also had some thoughts and noticed some flaws.
The Skill requirements for Prospector do not require the Mining Barge skill. If that was an intentional set so that non-miners could support their mining buddies please say so.
I see a can of problems coming with the Ant. It is a very nice ship; but considering the bonuses, someone might end up using it for a scanner ship (to find other ships, exploration sites, etc.) thus rendering current scanning ships less desirable. If you see a way around this please adress it.
The Mole needs something else... After a bit of thought I noticed that if you drop its survey scanner bonus, and give it a different bonus, such as "Can fit 2 (or 3) mining foreman links" then it could play its own part in a gang. I pulled that one off the top of my head, so bear with me here.
I just feel that it would be nice to have both the Mole and Armadillo supporting a gang of miners in their own special way. Yet, if only one person could fly the prospector class in a gang, it wouldn't be a major problem. -------
"If ever you come across a rip in the space/time continuum, throw muffins at it. Muffins make everything better."
-morriseyCAT |
Abrazzar
Equilibrium Inc. FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.03.30 11:14:00 -
[16]
As I had a similar idea and made a thread about it I'll just cross-link it here. Maybe we should cross-link all threads about the same thing, heh. Anyway, behold the ORE Prospector and Overseer. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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Clansworth
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Posted - 2008.03.30 20:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kever Shigenaga Bump for great justice and,
/Signed ... sorta
I belive your thoughts are in the right place, and you put a fair amount of effort into the ships, -however- I also had some thoughts and noticed some flaws.
The Skill requirements for Prospector do not require the Mining Barge skill. If that was an intentional set so that non-miners could support their mining buddies please say so.
You are correct that it does not require barge skills, and yes, it was intentional. The role this ship fills is not a mining role, but a coordination/surveying role. A prospector does not need to know the intricate workings of a masterful mining rig to tell the miner where to point it for the best stuff. I believe the furtherment of the mining trade should not be for miners alone, but to bring other characters, in this case, leadership characters, into the gang. Originally by: Kever Shigenaga
I see a can of problems coming with the Ant. It is a very nice ship; but considering the bonuses, someone might end up using it for a scanner ship (to find other ships, exploration sites, etc.) thus rendering current scanning ships less desirable. If you see a way around this please adress it.
While you are correct that this ship could be used as a scanner ship as well (in fact, it IS a scanner ship, just one designed by ORE instead of the empires). It has a better scanning bonus than the scanning frigs (heron, etc), and the same bonus as the covert ops frigs, without the uber cloaking abilities. The cost and skill use puts them in between them. Originally by: Kever Shigenaga
The Mole needs something else... After a bit of thought I noticed that if you drop its survey scanner bonus, and give it a different bonus, such as "Can fit 2 (or 3) mining foreman links" then it could play its own part in a gang. I pulled that one off the top of my head, so bear with me here.
I just feel that it would be nice to have both the Mole and Armadillo supporting a gang of miners in their own special way. Yet, if only one person could fly the prospector class in a gang, it wouldn't be a major problem.
More and more I'm thinking the mole really isn't necessary. I would like there to be a middle of the road prospector, but in the current mining system, I'm not sure what it could really provide. I definately don't want to give it more than one link, as that's the key advantage the 'dillo has. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. New Prospector Class |
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.03.30 23:23:00 -
[18]
For the Ant, I'm noticing a powergrid of 175? For a frigate, that seems odd. Also, reducing the CPU to say 125 would do it, and keep probe launchers off of it.
I like them though.
"Current Earth-Destruction Status" |
Anjinha
Napalm Death Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.31 11:15:00 -
[19]
/signed.
Added your idea to this list:
Industrialists' ideas for EVE
"We don't need Santa Claus... we need his factory"
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Thera Romana
Angel of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.31 13:16:00 -
[20]
I think there is still alot of confusion as to what a Foreman or director should be doing.
Your ships would be great pretty much for high sec or owned 0.0.
Foreman/Directors are the strong arms of a mining operation.
The should be fast, and deadly. Yeah sure they should give some bonus's to the miners. But they also should be protecting the miners.
What would be nice is a what to have a feed back system to these foreman and director ships. Follow me here, bringing this up so the ships would not get abused for combat vessels. Some how have a bonus to the ships combats and support capabilities that was reliant on how many miners it was supporting.
So if you only supporting 2 miners, your defense/combat capabilites are lower than if you are guarding 10 miners.
Example 1% to shield resists 1% to drone damage per miner supported on grid You could have a skill for this that may take it to a max of 5% per miner(but that may be over kill for really large squads.) This is something that might allow group operations to move to low sec.
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Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.01 00:43:00 -
[21]
In most my experience, the mining director is not necessarily the protection, instead, he's the person setting up the op, tracking the returns, managing payouts, and in the future, when prospecting is truely needed (once static belts start disappearing), finding the mining spot to start with. That is where these ships are destined. A corp's military wing should be handling the actual protection, but should not have to be bothers with scouting for good mining locations.
New Prospector Class |
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