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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Hunng Ibruin
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
5
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've started following the forums lately and I've come to a few conclusions regarding the eve community of the forums and elsewhere.
They all state their steadfast hatred against free to play and the revenue model that accompanies it. They are all elite pvp'ers and very hardcore in their own minds, especially when gate camping and 10v1 odds. Most of them hate everyone else who don't play the game exactly as they want them to play the game. They will flame and outright personally attack anyone who doesn't agree with them or suggest some change that they don't agree with, civil discussion is outright impossible with most of this community. Carebears must die and be driven from the game; miners must die and be driven from the game; industrialist must die and be driven from the game; incursion runners must die and be driven from the game; wormhole dwellers must die and be driven out of their hole and also want the game changed to remove ABC because....they want to control it themselves elsewhere.
I could go on but you know what I have stated isn't just hyperbole, it is by and large reality. This community is incredibly self-destructive and loathsome. If it isn't in your hands it deserves to be blown up/stolen/griefed/etc. until the person who has it gives up. War decks, can flipping, suicide, gatecamps, theft are all tools to accomplish this goal. In the end you post for the "tears" and could care less how the other person feels or if they leave the game; in-fact most of you will cheer even louder if you cause someone to quit the game.
Now we must add some more reality to this: EVE subs are stagnant at best, this is no longer a growth title. The potential audience has peeked. CCP must rely on keeping current subscribers and finding ways to generate revenue, PLEX sales and AURUM are one small step but everyone knows that cannot be enough to sustain the game with a dwindling player base. It is natural people move on after a time but CCP isn't really covering these lost pilots with new ones.
So the future of this title? Who knows. If the player base remains somewhat steady at the current level then CCP can continue in its current form. However, all these discussions of nerf, kill carebears, incursions, wormholers will do nothing but increase the pilot loss rate. CCP has a number, like all mmo companies, and once sub rates hit that line they will either shut or turn to FTP revenue models. This community hates FTP revenue models yet their actions are very likely to cause the need to implement FTP. So while they rage about how "unfair" FTP is, they only need to look in the station mirror for the underlying cause and culprit.
tl;dr version: stop being such overly asshats and purposefully drive people away
I'm not calling anyone out nor making a judgment pass. I do not intend to offend and my tone isn't one of accusation but just clam reflection. If you think I am wrong in my assessment please discuss why. I am hopeful we can maybe do some self assessment as a community. However, I am also a realist and know what will occur instead.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
960
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:It is natural people move on after a time but CCP isn't really covering these lost pilots with new ones.
Except, of course, that they are. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
7298
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eve is already FTP for some.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1048
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yup...
I have been saying this for a very long time...just not in so many eloquent words. Although I do believe that even I am guilty of this on occasion. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
960
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
To expand, the only time since it went live in 2003 where subscriptions dipped was when MT was introduced. While I am not against MT, or even against a FTP format, it does go to show that the "general attitude" in game is not the reason why it experienced that small dip.
Your premise is based on the fallacy that EVE is decreasing in player base, and that the reason players leave is because people are cut throat in this game... neither of which is fact.
The surest way for EVE to self destruct would be to change the rules to enforce "civilized behavior". When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
446
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions. I am running for the CSM https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=779668#post779668 |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
626
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:Carebears must die and be driven from the game; miners must die and be driven from the game; industrialist must die and be driven from the game; incursion runners must die and be driven from the game; wormhole dwellers must die I think you will find that most of the people who 'rant' about this have an alt that they participate in one or more of the above activities that you mentioned.
Also, why the hate for wormhole dwellers, i dont really see that one?
Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. If you actually sit down and take a look at all the previous changes to the game, (including the stealth unanounced ones), they are increasingly making the game safer for the majority of hisec.
(I say hisec, because thats where the majority of people who cant look after themselves live)
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TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
38
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
You clearly have a tight grasp on exactly what's happening in the world of CCP.
Please provide the numbers\links\evidence to back up you claims otherwise you're just another troll looking for love. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
242
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:I've started following the forums lately and I've come to a few conclusions regarding the eve community of the forums and elsewhere.
They all state their steadfast hatred against free to play and the revenue model that accompanies it.
I have yet to see any proof that f2p model could have any hope of exceeding or even approaching the current subscription model in revenue amount. Where are the numbers?
Also, eve is dieing. |
2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:It is natural people move on after a time but CCP isn't really covering these lost pilots with new ones. Except, of course, that they are.
Not really at all and time is not on their side, more time=more competition
F2P or B2P or 50 different variations of those are the new business models and soon there wont be any games with required monthly subscription, ever.
EvE Online already make use of a store and even sell PLEX, so to be fair it should be F2P already, I know if I ever have to pay another sub I wont, for now buying plex with ISK is the only reason I am here. |
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2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Razin wrote:Hunng Ibruin wrote:I've started following the forums lately and I've come to a few conclusions regarding the eve community of the forums and elsewhere.
They all state their steadfast hatred against free to play and the revenue model that accompanies it.
I have yet to see any proof that f2p model could have any hope of exceeding or even approaching the current subscription model in revenue amount. Where are the numbers? Also, eve is dieing.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/22/dc-universe-online-700-increase-in-daily-revenue-since-going-free-to-play/
Who knows?
Also League of Legends which is F2P is the most played online game and their revenue is massive. Hence why DOTA 2 is most likely becoming Valves most expensive and invested project ever etc. |
Fondon
Horizon in MOTION
28
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
EVE encourages freedom, grief is just a side effect. With WAR, Dust and WiS on the horizon, I wouldn't worry about subscriptions. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
965
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
2bhammered wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:It is natural people move on after a time but CCP isn't really covering these lost pilots with new ones. Except, of course, that they are. Not really at all and time is not on their side, more time=more competition F2P or B2P or 50 different variations of those are the new business models and soon there wont be any games with required monthly subscription, ever. EvE Online already make use of a store and even sell PLEX, so to be fair it should be F2P already, I know if I ever have to pay another sub I wont, for now buying plex with ISK is the only reason I am here.
EVE was still up for the year even after the dip subscriptions took.
Fair point on the business model changing in the industry, which is why I have no problem with CCP changing with the times.
My point was that even with a subscription based model it is still expanding it's player base steadily, and pointed out that this thread is essentially a thinly veiled "EVE is too mean" thread. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:2bhammered wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:It is natural people move on after a time but CCP isn't really covering these lost pilots with new ones. Except, of course, that they are. Not really at all and time is not on their side, more time=more competition F2P or B2P or 50 different variations of those are the new business models and soon there wont be any games with required monthly subscription, ever. EvE Online already make use of a store and even sell PLEX, so to be fair it should be F2P already, I know if I ever have to pay another sub I wont, for now buying plex with ISK is the only reason I am here. EVE was still up for the year even after the dip subscriptions took. Fair point on the business model changing in the industry, which is why I have no problem with CCP changing with the times. My point was that even with a subscription based model it is still expanding it's player base steadily, and pointed out that this thread is essentially a thinly veiled "EVE is too mean" thread.
Meh, I ignore the hyperbole of the OP
A lot of people also make alts, DUST is suppose to be F2P or B2P right?
I think if EVE wants to survive in coming years or even grow they need to change sooner rather than later. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
202
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:EVE subs are stagnant at best, this is no longer a growth title.
Hunng Ibruin wrote:IThis community hates FTP revenue models yet their actions are very likely to cause the need to implement FTP.
Get your facts straight and stop your **** posting.
At this time last year EvE hit is all-time high of players on-line. I bet you that if they hadn't tried to push their FTP model on us we would have beat that mark this year. But maybe we still can since PCU numbers has been increasing since Crucible.
EVE has been growing steadily since release for almost a decade - something most game companies can only dream of. EVE is fine because of its loyal and slowly growing subscriber player base. Only Incarna and the NEX business model was able to break that trend.
If anything kan kill EvE it is FTP. Yeah, and people like you. |
2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Hunng Ibruin wrote:EVE subs are stagnant at best, this is no longer a growth title.
Hunng Ibruin wrote:IThis community hates FTP revenue models yet their actions are very likely to cause the need to implement FTP. Get your facts straight and stop your **** posting. At this time last year EvE hit is all-time high of players on-line. I bet you that if they hadn't tried to push their FTP model on us we would have beat that mark this year. But maybe we still can since PCU numbers has been increasing since Crucible. EVE has been growing steadily since release for almost a decade - something most game companies can only dream of. EVE is fine because of its loyal and slowly growing subscriber player base. Only Incarna and the NEX business model was able to break that trend. If anything kan kill EvE it is FTP. Yeah, and people like you.
F2P done right would not kill it, only make it grow. I suppose they would have to make another server perhaps though to cope with increased population but then I guess the "one server, one world" would be gone?! Hmm, tough question, is too many players bad for eve online? |
baltec1
595
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions.
EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right. |
2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions. EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right.
I agree with your sentiment and I disagree with the OPs comment on what he considers to be griefing, but if you want to mention best performing MMO you have to put WoW in that sentence. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
238
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions. EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right.
Technically yes but only because it's a year older than WOW which by most metrics laughs in every other MMO's face
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Ni'ark
Parnassius Corporation Inception Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:especially when gate camping and 10v1 odds.
What?! Only 10v1? Tell me where! -First thread in ship and modules-First whine thread in ship and modules-First locked thread in ship and modules and new eve-o forums. |
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ElQuirko
Gravit Negotii
370
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
HTFU GO BACK TO WOW LOL LOL I DINT EVEN READ THE OPPPP
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
571
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:They all state their steadfast hatred against free to play and the revenue model that accompanies it.
They are all elite pvp'ers and very hardcore in their own minds, especially when gate camping and 10v1 odds.
Most of them hate everyone else who don't play the game exactly as they want them to play the game.
They will flame and outright personally attack anyone who doesn't agree with them or suggest some change that they don't agree with, civil discussion is outright impossible with most of this community.
Carebears must die and be driven from the game; miners must die and be driven from the game; industrialist must die and be driven from the game; incursion runners must die and be driven from the game; wormhole dwellers must die and be driven out of their hole and also want the game changed to remove ABC because....they want to control it themselves elsewhere. 1) yeah I could guess most of the EVE community does not want the F2P setup.
2) Bull. A large number of the most outspoken forum members are not PvPers in the combat sense.
3) I see more hate from miners and industrialists than from "elite pvp'ers". Then again, maybe I just ignore the combat pilots.
4) This isn't limited to any one group. Every type of play style has players who hate on others.
5) Reference number 4.
So, I'll ask: why the hate on combat pilots? |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
202
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Posted - 2012.02.13 15:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
2bhammered wrote:Also League of Legends which is F2P is the most played online game and their revenue is massive. Hence why DOTA 2 is most likely becoming Valves most expensive and invested project ever etc.
Apples and pears. A FTP model would not work well in CCPs single shard universe. The revenue per players is way too low in FTP games.
League of Legends has about 15 million players and they generate a revenue of 25-50 million USD. That is about $3 per year for every player. Imagine the EVE cluster with 15 million players paying $3/year and they would generate about the same revenue as the current model with 300k subs for about $150/year.
SFPT will generate about as much revenue with 15million players as EVE do now with 300k players. Do you honestly believe that EVE would benefit from such a model? Would you play EvE then?
http://www.businessinsider.com/digital-100#51-riot-games-51
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Samuel Moore Walton
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cruel, Harsh, REALISTIC, player interaction is why I have paid easily a $1000 plus for this game over three years, I am paid to 2014 and PLEX as it suits my RL budget. I fly t2 cruisers into pvp at $7 a whack and I lose weight because I pay for it brown bagging rather than McWendys.
I now have a 3.8 GPA playing EVE my GPA before I dropped out to world first attempt Illidan and Arthas was 2.1 or so.
EVE is a way of life for some, I didn't buy Aurum stuff because WiS is solo play, when it goes massively multiplayer I will buy the bling and hopefully a skillbook store in Jita 4-4
I am a minor league gamer, but once I graduate my budgeted 10% income for entertainment will grow from 1k to 4k per year overnight and grow from there.
If CCP wants to cash in they should consider being the benchmarking standard as games like Farcry and Crysis were before.
This would mean jumping on latest GFX technologies and being able to gain sponsorship and sell logos.
There was an EVE online edition Alienware but that was just stickers. I want benchmarking goodness. The game is pretty enough to make an impression just need to create a benchmark and sell "designed for" stickers.
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2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:2bhammered wrote:Also League of Legends which is F2P is the most played online game and their revenue is massive. Hence why DOTA 2 is most likely becoming Valves most expensive and invested project ever etc. Apples and pears. A FTP model would not work well in CCPs single shard universe. The revenue per players is way too low in FTP games. League of Legends has about 15 million players and they generate a revenue of 25-50 million USD. That is about $3 per year for every player. Imagine the EVE cluster with 15 million players paying $3/year and they would generate about the same revenue as the current model with 300k subs for about $150/year. SFPT will generate about as much revenue with 15million players as EVE do now with 300k players. Do you honestly believe that EVE would benefit from such a model? Would you play EvE then? http://www.businessinsider.com/digital-100#51-riot-games-51
Last I heard LoL had over 32 million players with more revenue than you quote.
Problem is of course if EVE can work an F2P model because of their game design with a single server but also the expenses for that kind of server.
So it might now be feasible, however, it could be something down the pipeline when too few people play the game to keep it alive for awhile longer.
Most likely they will make their next big MMO F2P or B2P or CCP and EVE will cover a certain niche? Hmm, in anyway, I appreciate this most interesting discussion that could easily just have been derailed because of the terrible OP. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
202
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
2bhammered wrote:Last I heard LoL had over 32 million players with more revenue than you quote.
Problem is of course if EVE can work an F2P model because of their game design with a single server but also the expenses for that kind of server.
So it might now be feasible, however, it could be something down the pipeline when too few people play the game to keep it alive for awhile longer.
Most likely they will make their next big MMO F2P or B2P or CCP and EVE will cover a certain niche? Hmm, in anyway, I appreciate this most interesting discussion that could easily just have been derailed because of the terrible OP.
FTP needs about 10-100 times more players to bring in the same profit that EvE currently does by subscription. These players don't care about forming long term social relationships because well they just play (for free) for a while and the move on to then next FOTM FTP game. It is a horrible idea for EVE where long term engagement is key to build anything in the sandbox.
Imagine how EVE would be like with millions of players that don't care much about the future and are only in it for the instant gratification fix. Do you think such game will thrive or even survive? |
Vizvayu Koga
41
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
I agree that most of the player base has a really ****** up attitude, and IMO that is up to CCP to fix. One problem is that there are many bugged game mechanics that are easily abused/exploited (won't start playing word games here so don't waste your time). I'm not saying that CCP should block everything, destroying every bit of freedom and make the game a carebear heaven, but activities like suicide ganking and such shouldn't ever be encouraged. And they are encouraging those kind of activities right now just because of the fact that they are profitable. This is obviously just and example of what I mean. I believe the player base can and should be educated, rewarding players for being constructive and not destructive (again try to understand what I mean, don't waste time playing word games) leaving freedom as it is now, but with clear and well thought consequences for every action.
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Valei Khurelem
304
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:It is a horrible idea for EVE where long term engagement is key to build anything in the sandbox.
Speaking of horrible ideas, if what you say is true, then why is Minecraft so popular and a really fun sandbox to play?
It is precisely because EVE Online takes long term engagement and as others have put it 'hard work' that the player base is so small, this is not what a game should be about and never will be, every time it surprises me with the drama and rage that the player base go through that this game is still going. My hats off to CCP for keeping it going as long as they have but this game really is on life support.
Well said by the way OP that's pretty much my belief of where this game is going at the moment, CCP will probably be forced to go free to play soon enough because this time it was the player base that broke the sandbox and not the devs, that said the devs are partially to blame as well for simply sitting by and doing nothing about it for so long.
This year I am looking forward to Mass Effect 3, I am looking forward to improving my drawing as much as possible, I am not really looking forward to seeing the death of another sandbox that can easily be fixed with a change in attitude from both CCP and the player base.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
95
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:
tl;dr version: stop being such overly asshats and purposefully drive people away
Well, good timimg. My accounts expire in a matter of hours. I couldn't agree more with the OP since this is why I'm quitting after 4 years. The players' attitude overall is simply intollerable. I did most of the OP-mentioned activities other than wormhole space. I also lived in null and low sec. I did PvP and I did fleet up so you can just skip the elitist "I is awesome null pew-pewer! Everyone must come to null to pew-pew 'cause that's the only part of the game I understand!" posts since it just makes the OP look even more correct. Also, only you will read it since this is a last post.
EVE players also claim to hate RMT but pump huge amounts of money into it. They also hate bots but run bot fleets. I guess if they "hate F2P, they probably can't wait for it to happen.
I already know that "nobody cares" and no you can't have my stuff. I don't have enough time left for that anyway and wouldn't even if I did. I leave EVE exactly nothing. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3108
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ill have to say that Incursion runners are some of the largest hats in the game, make nullers look like gentlemen.
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