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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cipher Jones
301
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Posted - 2012.02.14 17:48:00 -
[121] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Cipher Jones wrote: The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people.
I actually do log on to the server and I can say that the server feels much more active in the last couple of months. Oddly enough, that tallies exactly with the data from eve-offline...... ! Mark Twain wrote:There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Indeed. -Liang
That very source says tranquility has less users now than at the peak, which is what I am saying.
What you are saying is that there are more people now than a prior point in time that was not the peak.
Both scenarios can be true simultaneously.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
210
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Posted - 2012.02.14 17:48:00 -
[122] - Quote
brainfart |
Cipher Jones
301
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Posted - 2012.02.14 17:49:00 -
[123] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Your chart is about subscribers.
My post says less people are on tranquility.
Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.
Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.
If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays. I can't contradict the fewer players claim because I don't see players in game, I see ships that belong to subscriptions. There is no way I can tell you if 10 mining barges huddled together is ten people, or one person, and I know you can't do the same. This is why we based numbers on subscriptions. Regardless of who owns what subscription it still counts as a purchased account. CCP aint got no buy one get one free deal here. Hence, the chart that I use is providing good data as it has with every game I look after. Personally he has been the best source for me for years as he gets his information from multiple sources and verifies it as best as he can. By the way, I am surprised that you are able to cover some 5000 systems every night and personally make a head count in each one. As for the rest, well, lets just say I'm not surprised. I knew you were going to find any reason to discredit any data shown to you and that you wouldn't be able to back any of your own claims up other than 'I saw less people in x system, game is dying'.
There are both apps and websites that monitor server connections. I use an app that I can see in game via the windows sidebar.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Cipher Jones
301
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Posted - 2012.02.14 17:52:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Your chart is about subscribers.
My post says less people are on tranquility.
Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.
Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.
If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays. Unless your point is that "although more people are subscribing (and CCP revenue increases), fewer seem to be on at peak times), I would say his point is entirely relevant.
the point is the chart is inaccurate due to age.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
785
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Posted - 2012.02.14 18:03:00 -
[125] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Your chart is about subscribers.
My post says less people are on tranquility.
Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.
Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.
If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.
Ok, how about charts that actually look at the number of people logged into the server nowadays? Would that be sufficient for you?
Lets see... According to the data pulled from Eve-Offline (analyzed here: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/crucible-mission-accomplished/ ), since shortly before the release of Crucible: - The server has 11% more EU TZ people playing (60 day rolling - its actually much higher if you take a 7 or 30 day roll) - The server has 17% more US TZ people playing (60 day rolling, again much higher if you take a 7 or 30 day roll) - The server has 45% more AUS TZ people playing( 60 days, higher, yadda yadda)
Graph for you: http://liangnuren.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chart_1.png
Basically: if you feel that the server activity is trending down, you're projecting... and just outright wrong.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
210
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Posted - 2012.02.14 18:05:00 -
[126] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Your chart is about subscribers.
My post says less people are on tranquility.
Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.
Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.
If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays. Unless your point is that "although more people are subscribing (and CCP revenue increases), fewer seem to be on at peak times), I would say his point is entirely relevant. the point is the chart is inaccurate due to age.
Well, that doesn't mean that it is wrong either. Also, pcu numbers are up since october suggesting that subscription numbers are also likely to be up. It is not proof but it is a very good indication that Crucible might have restored the slow and steady growth rate that EVE enjoyed for years up and until the Incarna fiasko.
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Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
69
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Posted - 2012.02.14 18:08:00 -
[127] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: There are both apps and websites that monitor server connections. I use an app that I can see in game via the windows sidebar.
I know there are, that is why I am asking you to link one.
Cipher Jones wrote:the point is the chart is inaccurate due to age.
**cough-OP OUT** Excuse me, something in my throat. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4917
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Posted - 2012.02.14 18:27:00 -
[128] - Quote
I'm impressed. It's rare to see so many factual errors crammed into a single OP. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
252
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Posted - 2012.02.14 19:07:00 -
[129] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I'm impressed. It's rare to see so many factual errors crammed into a single OP. Really? After four years here, I'm more surprised by the factual evidence when it's presented!
(not busting on anyone - I've just hears *soooOOooo many times: "X, Y and Z are true because I saw it...")
Nice write-ups Tippia and Liang!
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Ai Shun
265
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Posted - 2012.02.14 20:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.
I observe there are more players online. That disproves your observation. Do you see what I did there? I'd trust empirical data over a subjective observation.
Valei Khurelem wrote:No, 39k online with how much was it last announcement? 200,000 subscribers? ( correct me if I'm wrong on that number but that's the last report I remember ) Says this is an unpopular game, if CCP had devoted themselves to this type of game and making EVE as good as it can be rather than going for get rich quick schemes or pissing away their time on unknown MMORPGs and games they'd have far more people playing than people just subscribing.
I was going to reply to you; but your point has pretty much been smacked down for the **** it is already. I will add however that CCP has indicated their subscription model and game results in a very loyal player-base if they stay subscribed for the initial period. It is in the latest CSM releases. |
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1055
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Posted - 2012.02.14 23:00:00 -
[131] - Quote
I wouldn't say that EvE is an unpopular game. In fact it is extremely popular...for being hard as hell to play. Which is why it has nowhere near the number of subscribers as the higher ranked MMO's out there. Games like WoW, EQ, ToR and the like have the subscriber numbers they have because they are easy and casual friendly. EvE is difficult and does not cater to the average player. Doesn't mean it's a bad game...means it is a niche game.
By the way...I think Star Wars: The Old Republic is averaging something like 500k players on at a given time right now. If I am not mistaken that is almost as many subscribers as EvE has. Either way...no comparison on all levels. There is no other MMO like EvE and it has no reason to and doesn't need to compete with any other MMO right now. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Cipher Jones
301
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Posted - 2012.02.15 00:51:00 -
[132] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Your chart is about subscribers.
My post says less people are on tranquility.
Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.
Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.
If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays. Ok, how about charts that actually look at the number of people logged into the server nowadays? Would that be sufficient for you? Lets see... According to the data pulled from Eve-Offline (analyzed here: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/crucible-mission-accomplished/ ), since shortly before the release of Crucible: - The server has 11% more EU TZ people playing (60 day rolling - its actually much higher if you take a 7 or 30 day roll) - The server has 17% more US TZ people playing (60 day rolling, again much higher if you take a 7 or 30 day roll) - The server has 45% more AUS TZ people playing( 60 days, higher, yadda yadda) Graph for you: http://liangnuren.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chart_1.pngBasically: if you feel that the server activity is trending down, you're projecting... and just outright wrong. -Liang
According to cipher Jones...
Quote:Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak.
This is a fact. Bringing feelings into it is unnecessary.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1002
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:23:00 -
[133] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:39k online says that EVE is a niche product. No, 39k online with how much was it last announcement? 200,000 subscribers? According to these articles[1][2] your average SWTOR server can expect to have somewhere between 1400 and 2700 people. This includes both the shards and the "sharded zones" that have different people running on the same map. Thus, we could say (for example) that 39k people online is the equivalent of 14 and 27 servers. Split the difference and call it 21. So lets assume that SWTOR is representative of all sharded MMOs and note that Rift has 16 US TZ servers and 18 EU TZ servers[3]. Noting that only one of those server sets really comes into play at a time, we can safely say that on average that Eve has ~15% more people playing than Rift does. Now, one might argue that its terrible if Eve is merely as popular as Rift - afterall, Rift just went half free to play! However, the situations are quite distinct. Consider: - Eve has long since been turning a profit, and is continuing to turn quite a pretty penny in profit. Enough to outright pay for the development of at least one extra game. - Eve's sub graph doesn't look like Rift's[4]. - Eve's sub graph has a high correlation to its population graph. Consider the server metrics [5][6] as well. Basically: while 39k seems like its "really low"... its actually not. -Liang [1] http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-03-swtor-has-350-000-peak-concurrent-users-report[2] http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=240117[3] http://www.riftstatus.com/[4] http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png[5] http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4i[6] http://bit.ly/z55dg6
It is good to see such high quality posts, thank you.
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
794
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:42:00 -
[134] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I wouldn't say that EvE is an unpopular game. In fact it is extremely popular...for being hard as hell to play. Which is why it has nowhere near the number of subscribers as the higher ranked MMO's out there. Games like WoW, EQ, ToR and the like have the subscriber numbers they have because they are easy and casual friendly. EvE is difficult and does not cater to the average player. Doesn't mean it's a bad game...means it is a niche game.
By the way...I think Star Wars: The Old Republic is averaging something like 500k players on at a given time right now. If I am not mistaken that is almost as many subscribers as EvE has. Either way...no comparison on all levels. There is no other MMO like EvE and it has no reason to and doesn't need to compete with any other MMO right now.
No, their max PCU so far is 350k. ;-)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Ehn Roh
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:48:00 -
[135] - Quote
Quote:I could go on but you know what I have stated isn't just hyperbole, it is by and large reality. This community is incredibly self-destructive and loathsome.
So what? It keeps growing regardless. Why fix something that isn't broken?
EVE's longevity is a direct result of the fact that they don't really have any competitors. Changing that would not end well for them. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3132
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:57:00 -
[136] - Quote
Like EA's newest MMO that will take your character information in eve to make you an instant veteran will offer any competition? I can so see goonswarm go in and make a killing. matter of factly any eve player. Ebay all of the characters.
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Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
53
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:58:00 -
[137] - Quote
Ehn Roh wrote:Quote:I could go on but you know what I have stated isn't just hyperbole, it is by and large reality. This community is incredibly self-destructive and loathsome. So what? It keeps growing regardless because of this. Why fix something that isn't broken? Fixed. I (and many others) love the cut-through nature of EVE. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Cipher Jones
301
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Posted - 2012.02.15 21:16:00 -
[138] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:39k online says that EVE is a niche product. No, 39k online with how much was it last announcement? 200,000 subscribers? According to these articles[1][2] your average SWTOR server can expect to have somewhere between 1400 and 2700 people. This includes both the shards and the "sharded zones" that have different people running on the same map. Thus, we could say (for example) that 39k people online is the equivalent of 14 and 27 servers. Split the difference and call it 21. So lets assume that SWTOR is representative of all sharded MMOs and note that Rift has 16 US TZ servers and 18 EU TZ servers[3]. Noting that only one of those server sets really comes into play at a time, we can safely say that on average that Eve has ~15% more people playing than Rift does. Now, one might argue that its terrible if Eve is merely as popular as Rift - afterall, Rift just went half free to play! However, the situations are quite distinct. Consider: - Eve has long since been turning a profit, and is continuing to turn quite a pretty penny in profit. Enough to outright pay for the development of at least one extra game. - Eve's sub graph doesn't look like Rift's[4]. - Eve's sub graph has a high correlation to its population graph. Consider the server metrics [5][6] as well. Basically: while 39k seems like its "really low"... its actually not. -Liang [1] http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-03-swtor-has-350-000-peak-concurrent-users-report[2] http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=240117[3] http://www.riftstatus.com/[4] http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png[5] http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4i[6] http://bit.ly/z55dg6 It is good to see such high quality posts, thank you.
No offense but....
If I were a dev I would love that post too. It alludes to subscriptions being up without CCP having to post the numbers. Then once you guys get more subs you can post the numbers again and release a dev blog or new QEN or whatever. You'll never have to publish how many subs Incarna cost.
Quote:Basically: while 39k seems like its "really low"... its actually not.
I want CCP to succeed, I want enough people to play Eve to keep it alive indefinitely and I applaud what they have accomplished.
I am not saying its "really low", I am saying its lower than it could be and has been.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
213
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:24:00 -
[139] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:I am not saying its "really low", I am saying its lower than it could be and has been. You do realize that numbers will always be lower than "has been" except on the rare occasions you reach all-time high. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
800
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:38:00 -
[140] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: No offense but....
If I were a dev I would love that post too. It alludes to subscriptions being up without CCP having to post the numbers. Then once you guys get more subs you can post the numbers again and release a dev blog or new QEN or whatever. You'll never have to publish how many subs Incarna cost.
Comments: - There's traditionally been a high correlation between players online and subs. Historic graphs for both subs and players online are both available. I'm not sure how you can try to spin this as subs being down. - They DID say how many subs Incarna cost.
-_-
Quote:Quote:Basically: while 39k seems like its "really low"... its actually not. I want CCP to succeed, I want enough people to play Eve to keep it alive indefinitely and I applaud what they have accomplished. I am not saying its "really low", I am saying its lower than it could be and has been.
Yes, its lower than it has been and could be. But its quickly getting better, and in some timezones its actually better than its ever been.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Arafelis Keikira
Command N
1
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:40:00 -
[141] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:So lets assume that SWTOR is representative of all sharded MMOs
Why are we making this assumption?
Quote:we can safely say that on average that Eve has ~15% more people playing than Rift does.
One person -> one character? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
800
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:49:00 -
[142] - Quote
Arafelis Keikira wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:So lets assume that SWTOR is representative of all sharded MMOs Why are we making this assumption?
Because Rift doesn't have any publically available statistics for what "low" "medium" and "high" represent. Furthermore, they don't let you see how many people are in the particular map instance you're in. When I was playing Rift, a "medium population" server would frequently sport < 5 people in any one of the main areas with perhaps 30 people in the central square of the capital city.
There was some information slippage that suggested the population cap on a server was ~800-1000 people, but I didn't feel it was well founded enough to actually run with it. Ultimately, the justification for that assumption is that they're both sharded MMOs with what appears to be similar ratios.
Consider that Rift top ended at ~70 servers with ~800-900k subs .. which seems to be similar to ~250 servers with 1.7M subs.
Quote:Quote:we can safely say that on average that Eve has ~15% more people playing than Rift does. One person -> one character?
There's some CCP numbers that say there's ~1.25 subs per person on average. I'd have to go hunt it up.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Arafelis Keikira
Command N
1
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:55:00 -
[143] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Because Rift doesn't have any publically available statistics for what "low" "medium" and "high" represent.
Well, that seems a little backwards, logically.
Quote: Ultimately, the justification for that assumption is that they're both sharded MMOs with what appears to be similar ratios.
Consider that Rift top ended at ~70 servers with ~800-900k subs .. which seems to be similar to ~250 servers with 1.7M subs.
Okay, fair enough. Er... wait. What? 70 servers with 900k subs is equal to twice that many subs on (mild hyperbole) four times (/mild hyperbole) that many servers?
I mean at this point it's just a technical objection, but geez. Now I have to go back over all your math. eh... tl;dr.
Anyway it's obvious EVE's not dying. I'm here. |
Katalci
D.I.R.T
35
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Posted - 2012.02.15 23:04:00 -
[144] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience those of us who give no mercy and expect none in return. There are literally hundreds of other MMO's out there that don't tolerate certain "behaviors". Go play one of those if you dislike EVE. This. The entire point of EVE is the freedom. If you remove the freedom to grief, steal, cheat, scam, gank, etc. then you wreck what makes EVE different from every other MMO, and it will die. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
802
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Posted - 2012.02.15 23:12:00 -
[145] - Quote
Arafelis Keikira wrote:Okay, fair enough. Er... wait. What? 70 servers with 900k subs is equal to twice that many subs on (mild hyperbole) four times (/mild hyperbole) that many servers? I mean at this point it's just a technical objection, but geez. Now I have to go back over all your math. eh... tl;dr. Anyway it's obvious EVE's not dying. I'm here.
The SWTOR numbers are pretty solid, but Trion (Rift) has always been really cagey about their sub and population numbers. I don't actually know if they had 900k subs at the same time they had 70 servers - though those were rough maxes I saw when googling about. I could put more effort into that comparison if you'd really like, but the biggest reason to draw the parallel from SWTOR's freely stated numbers to Rift is to illustrate how well Eve is doing compared to a "main stream" game.
I suppose we could make the direct comparison to SWTOR: - SWTOR: 350k peak concurrent users / 1.7M subs. Ratio: 0.20588235294117646 (215 active servers, 125 US, 90 EU) - Eve: 50356 peak concurrent users / ~375k subs. Ratio: 0.13428266666666666 (1 active server)
Eve sub numbers are shaky but I'd be surprised if they aren't in the right ballpark.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Arafelis Keikira
Command N
2
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Posted - 2012.02.16 00:15:00 -
[146] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:The SWTOR numbers are pretty solid, but Trion (Rift) has always been really cagey about their sub and population numbers. I don't actually know if they had 900k subs at the same time they had 70 servers - though those were rough maxes I saw when googling about. I could put more effort into that comparison if you'd really like, but the biggest reason to draw the parallel from SWTOR's freely stated numbers to Rift is to illustrate how well Eve is doing compared to a "main stream" game.
Drawing any comparisons to a month-old game is really shaky. And as you've said, we don't have very good data on Rift. The analysis is spurious, although far less so than the OP's apparent correlation between, hm, forum posts and sector activity?
The only really comparable games are Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and City of Heroes. Of the three, City of Heroes is the only one still publishing new content -- but I can't get any solid sub numbers on it. There's two-year-old data of "120k," but it's unreliable at best, and the game's gone f2p since then.
I guess a better question though is why we're even concerned? With the publication of Dust 514 (what got me to take a new look at EVE, incidentally), it's fairly obvious the studio isn't planning on abandoning the property anytime soon. I think a much better question than, "is the game dying?" is, "is the community healthy?" "Are new players joining the game?" "Are people having fun?"
Well.
So let's also focus on a much more productive avenue of attack. What's the OP's underlying grievance, and what would it take to resolve it? |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
91
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Posted - 2012.02.16 01:47:00 -
[147] - Quote
The chart that I had posted a page back had Rift start with 600K subs and drop down to 480K about 3 months in. I'm positive that it had dropped down further than that since then as they have closed several servers at around 6 months (maybe later) but just before I left they opened up Russia to the game.
I had the discussion with somebody else in Rift and the server size is the same as SWTOR with <1000 being low and 3000 being high. |
Theodoric Darkwind
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
117
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Posted - 2012.02.16 02:14:00 -
[148] - Quote
Sisohiv wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote: Not my job to research others claims. I'll just mark it down as non factual for the time being.
No, it's your "job" to troll forums and derail anything that threatens your little pixel sand castle. That said, you guys are all a little new? The game is 8 years old, nothing has changed. Bad behaviour has always been rewarded in EVE 500% more than honor or integrity. CCp have managed for 8 years without ever implementing a mechanic (not an employee) that allows the game to thrive in civility. The Null Bears and pew Bears have full backing by CCP. The rest of EVE are seen as usefull idiots. This is EVE. Adapt or GTFO.
EVE is a sandbox by nature, which means the players make the "content" for the most part. If EVE turned into happy fun carebear theme park it would be an extremely boring game. Its the unpredictable sandbox that makes EVE appealing.
I played another mmo that will not be named for 6 years, and it was the same old thing every week, show up for raid at the designated time, kill the same scripted dragons you killed last week, the only "progress" you see is either a new piece of gear or another boss kill on some epeen waving site.
With EVE you really never know exactly what you are doing from one day to the next (unless you do nothing but PvE), one night you could end up in a 1000+ person fleet battle, the next night it could be quiet giving you some time to make isk.
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Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
91
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Posted - 2012.02.16 03:17:00 -
[149] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:Sisohiv wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote: Not my job to research others claims. I'll just mark it down as non factual for the time being.
No, it's your "job" to troll forums and derail anything that threatens your little pixel sand castle. That said, you guys are all a little new? The game is 8 years old, nothing has changed. Bad behaviour has always been rewarded in EVE 500% more than honor or integrity. CCp have managed for 8 years without ever implementing a mechanic (not an employee) that allows the game to thrive in civility. The Null Bears and pew Bears have full backing by CCP. The rest of EVE are seen as usefull idiots. This is EVE. Adapt or GTFO. EVE is a sandbox by nature, which means the players make the "content" for the most part. If EVE turned into happy fun carebear theme park it would be an extremely boring game. Its the unpredictable sandbox that makes EVE appealing. I played another mmo that will not be named for 6 years, and it was the same old thing every week, show up for raid at the designated time, kill the same scripted dragons you killed last week, the only "progress" you see is either a new piece of gear or another boss kill on some epeen waving site. With EVE you really never know exactly what you are doing from one day to the next (unless you do nothing but PvE), one night you could end up in a 1000+ person fleet battle, the next night it could be quiet giving you some time to make isk.
I just came after something like 2 years of vacation and most of what you stated is the reason why I came back. I cycled through several other mmo's during that time and nothing out there truly has what Eve has to offer.
First off I really enjoy a player ran economy. Some may argue that other games have a similar economy with the auction house but it doesn't even compare when you get down to it. With those games certain items tend to be controlled more due to rarity of drops making competition very tight. In most cases the gear you end up wanting can only be achieved through raiding making the AH useless. And with a AH it's all centralized where in Eve item price varies significantly through the entire universe creating a side profession (or full if you're really good) of market trading.
Full item loss in combat pares perfectly with the player driven economy. Yeah it sucks losing a ship and having to spend time to build a new one but it's a perfect isk sink that keeps driving the economy. No gear loss eventually leads to very little purchased once all of your character slots are taken up and maxed (usually it becomes consumables at this point).
In Eve you aren't locked to any specific class. You can train what you want, how you want. The best part is that there is no grind involved in the process and you even train when you're offline. Seriously, name another game that offers that. This effectively removes class imbalance issues and narrows it to specific skills.
And as you stated, this is a game that truly offers a sandbox feel with what you choose to do with your character. The team basically lays a bunch of tools out in front of you and the rest is up to you. You might decide you want to do industry for a while, or maybe go try to live in low or null sec for a bit (where the rules truly are what the players make them), or you decide on playing the market for a while, or doing something as simple as hauling goods all day. The choice is yours. The is no linear path telling you to work your way from point a to point b and then accomplish x tasks to get the epic armor where eventually you will run out of things to do.
I also enjoy that the sides are what you make them. I've been long trying to advocate that 2 side mmo's are bound to fail simply due to my tipping scale theory. No 2 sides are ever equal, and when one side starts to win more often people tend to jump ship of the losing side making the imbalance more noticeable until one side absolutely dominates. 3 sided mmo's (DAOC) fare much better as 2 sides can make a temporary alliance to strike at the third side but truly the best method are the mmo's with player created teams.
Every MMO that I've played between the time that I quit and now either had only a few of the above items or none at all and it truly detracts from the overall experience which has taught me that Eve is truly one of the best games out there.
Side note: I never really read Sisohiv's message fully when he raged on me but now that I have I'm wondering why he quoted me in the first place. The guy should read more and blind fire less.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
805
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Posted - 2012.02.16 05:12:00 -
[150] - Quote
Vizvayu Koga wrote:Theodoric Darkwind wrote: EVE is a sandbox by nature, which means the players make the "content" for the most part. If EVE turned into happy fun carebear theme park it would be an extremely boring game. Its the unpredictable sandbox that makes EVE appealing.
I played another mmo that will not be named for 6 years, and it was the same old thing every week, show up for raid at the designated time, kill the same scripted dragons you killed last week, the only "progress" you see is either a new piece of gear or another boss kill on some epeen waving site.
With EVE you really never know exactly what you are doing from one day to the next (unless you do nothing but PvE), one night you could end up in a 1000+ person fleet battle, the next night it could be quiet giving you some time to make isk.
I see the sandbox and freedom topics are very common on this kind of thread, and I agree with this up to some extent, but EVE is not truly a sandbox, not 100% at least. We have imposed rules and game mechanics that, sometimes obviously, other times more subtly, lead players to certain goals and also define "better" ways to reach those goals. This means that many times, the way players react (in game, in forums or in comms) is conditioned by CCP's rules, even if they (players) think is just their internal nature (or human nature) to react like that and do the things they do, the way they do.
Sand boxes have walls (rules), but what you do in between is entirely up to you.
Eve is a sandbox.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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