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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
215
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Posted - 2012.02.17 10:51:00 -
[211] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:Lexmana wrote:Skydell wrote: And as someone else pointed out, if another space sim comes out that doesn't put you in a gold fish bowl like STO tried, EVE is in serious ****. Another reason for CCP to keep the current business model of relatively few subscribers that pay a premium fee instead of going FTP hoping to get millions of players that pay almost nothing but risk attention from the competition that want in on the cake. A small niche product with loyal customers that pay premium is not such a bad business model. There's a lot of gamers who play free games because they don't have the money to actually subscribe. From a business sense they're not the people you want to attract under normal circumstances (not that there is anything wrong with them but they won't be putting much financially into your business). However, in MMOs when an MMO is failing these people become more valuable to the business as they will help bolster the numbers and hopefully help keep the remaining subscribers.
True. It might keep a failing MMO in business a few more months. But there are also games designed as FPT from the start with a business model that needs millions of players to make a profit near that of EVE. Some of them are also very successful.
Fortunately, EVE is neither of the above no matter how much some people wants it to be. |
Valei Khurelem
330
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 11:02:00 -
[212] - Quote
Quote: --TL;DR-- WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH
BOOO HOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO
Please continue making pathetic posts like this so your argument becomes more and more meaningless each time. I particularly enjoy it when people like you quote entire walls of texts and then write one line below it all in order to cover up how little you have to say on the subject.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
2
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:20:00 -
[213] - Quote
There is too many people that just dont get EVE
To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played.
"If you cannot stand the heat, then get out the kitchen". Should be a CCP policy
While i am here, I personally would like to thank CCP for giving me a game that I am truely enjoying to the max. Be it mining, missioning, WH's , roaming, hell even camping is doing it for me. ATM what ever i am doing, I have yet to find something that I dont like
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1012
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Posted - 2012.02.17 12:01:00 -
[214] - Quote
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Valei Khurelem
330
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Posted - 2012.02.17 12:04:00 -
[215] - Quote
Quote:To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played.
Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances?
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
215
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Posted - 2012.02.17 12:16:00 -
[216] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played. Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances? What makes you think it is not a warzone? Why don't you to there and farm your own profit ... Ohh yeah you did (kind of). |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
22
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Posted - 2012.02.17 12:57:00 -
[217] - Quote
Damn, I am a bit late on this fine thread. The topic always scared me away. Gives me a shiver whenever I read it.
OP, I totally agree with you on the analysis or the EVE community ... now GTFO!
Some things to consider: - The community has been like this for 8 years now, how does that fit to your assumption of decreasing playerbase? - The player count has risen until a complete f***up by CCP's PR and management occurred. - What drove a lot of player's away last year, are the new business model approaches by CCP, not the occasional failure of new players and the following forum tears. We can sustain those losses. * - What keeps new players coming (or returning) now are the changes that CCP made after finally listening to the community and relocating development to core EVE features and away from the virtual stuff market that was introduced only to squeeze more money out of us.
* I do agree though, that we could be more helpful and nice to new players sometimes. And there are actually places were new player's are welcome and greeted with open arms (EVE University, New Player's forum etc).
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Valei Khurelem
330
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Posted - 2012.02.17 14:13:00 -
[218] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played. Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances? What makes you think it is not a warzone? Why don't you to there and farm your own profit ... Ohh yeah you did (kind of).
Yes, it also amazed me how many blatant bots are just sitting there, I was thinking about staying silent on this, but honestly, looking at the way local reacts to a real player going in is ridiculous, not only that I found that all the rare ore got mined out in seconds. So even though I could run missions there was no way I could manufacture my own gear, how about admitting I'm right for once? Instead of claiming I'm incompetent even though I've only lost a couple of ships my entire time subscribed?
There are entire alliances out there folks who are using bot accounts to mine and farm in their space, they claim they do it because they have no choice since the other alliances do the same, so I say we legalise it and level the playing field so it stops being profitable to bot.
CCP are going to have to fix this game soon and make changes long term PvPers in particular won't like, but in the end it's going to be worth it because we'll all have a fun game rather than just a select few who are brave enough to cheat in the game.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Cipher Jones
301
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:24:00 -
[219] - Quote
Ascendic wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:baltec1 wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions. EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right. Technically yes but only because it's a year older than WOW which by most metrics laughs in every other MMO's face Considering WOW has begun bleeding subs your statement is wrong.
Wow increased income even tho it lost subs.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
216
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:56:00 -
[220] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: Wow increased income even tho it lost subs.
Your point is EVE is fail because it might be beat by one other game in history? |
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Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
173
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:22:00 -
[221] - Quote
Thanks to the OP, I agree, and wish I could say it aloud the same and eloquent way, however my english lacks skill level V.
Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions.
I don't even think that Eve online would be able to handle say ten times the current daily active users.
Eve online is in bad health in many ways, and the one that will most likely drive me away is the miserable quality of so many features. Very good ideas implemented in a hurry and left as "working as intended" after some half hearted and rushed minor patches. I do really hate this attitude. Yes yes CCP mumbling "Excellence". Well if this is excellence, then I don't want to know what mediocrity would be.
I've got this feeling that the code base of Eve online looks like Bartertown of one of the Mad Max movies, so this is mainly preventing constant and high quality features. Eve community: An angry mob of bright people hunting witches, more torches, more hay forks, growing and growing. |
FeralShadow
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
52
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Posted - 2012.02.17 20:40:00 -
[222] - Quote
So uh.. you expect that alliances that have been living in the area and log in specifically to mine those good quality ores after downtime should be penalized..
Now, I'm not sure that's the answer
The answer is to make roids randomly spawning throughout the day. You mine out a roid, and it could come back in an hour, or it could come back in 24 hours. This would throw off the botting and give the people who play on the side of the earth who need to sleep during downtime a chance to mine the good ore.
And blobs? in alliance's home systems? you dont say... That's like marching up to someone's house and across their lawn in the back woods of nowhere and not expecting him to come out with a shotgun and chase you off his property. Especially because he has his pesky neighbors down the road who come over and raid his toolshed every once in a while. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2986
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Posted - 2012.02.17 22:50:00 -
[223] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played. Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances?
Um, most of 0.0 is a warzone right now. Maybe not the deep south, but that might be only because we don't hear much about what's going on down there on english maguage forums. The rest if it is pretty much on fire. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
235
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Posted - 2012.02.17 23:00:00 -
[224] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:Community HATES thought of FtP Not me!
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Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
156
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Posted - 2012.02.17 23:26:00 -
[225] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:Lexmana wrote:Skydell wrote: And as someone else pointed out, if another space sim comes out that doesn't put you in a gold fish bowl like STO tried, EVE is in serious ****. Another reason for CCP to keep the current business model of relatively few subscribers that pay a premium fee instead of going FTP hoping to get millions of players that pay almost nothing but risk attention from the competition that want in on the cake. A small niche product with loyal customers that pay premium is not such a bad business model. There's a lot of gamers who play free games because they don't have the money to actually subscribe. From a business sense they're not the people you want to attract under normal circumstances (not that there is anything wrong with them but they won't be putting much financially into your business). However, in MMOs when an MMO is failing these people become more valuable to the business as they will help bolster the numbers and hopefully help keep the remaining subscribers.
Just on that premise alone EVE would be better off with a free play option. EVE needs one thing above all else. Victims. Free play people would provide loads of those. The trouble as was already stated is in the SP aspect. While I don't stay sub'ed for SP, if I'm off to another game I will dump my subs with no hesitation, most in EVE still see SP as something of value, worth a sub even when they don't play. CCP putting EVE free play makes SP free.
I could see a WoW model working here. WoW free is really just an unlimited trial. While it could be said given enough time even a trial can make 450 mill for a plex, they are only going to get maybe 3 or 4 a year where they are sub based.
EVE would need to go freemium with trial restrictions on free accounts and even that wouldn't work because once I have a non trial skill injected, I could train it out while in free mode.
I just dont see EVE working free.
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Edwin Atavuli
DotCom Inc.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.20 01:33:00 -
[226] - Quote
Well..... I have not been playing EVE too long, coming up on 3 months.
But here's a few things id like to say....
free to play = bogus and just wont work in a game like Eve... it would worsen things like 100 fold.
EVE is complex, hardcore, with a super learning curve, and i love it for that! but.......
it's far too linear, introduction tutorial is crazy bad, and bad as in terribad suck bad.... needs to be tweaked.....
now here is where i am really gonna feel the flames lol!
if eve wants to see increase in sub numbers.......
1. Make all noobs unattackable untill 1 mil skill points, however add the stipulation that if they choose to go into anything lower than 0.5 space they are "sol" and wide open to attack.
2. redo the intro tutorials.... now im not saying dumb it down.... just do something it sucks?
3. repeat # 1
ive read endless stories, posts, ect >>> why don't more people play EVE? i was always too scared to try eve for the longest. because of the stories ive heard.... lot's of wich were true lol! ccp has to stop the suicide gank at least in high sec space on noobs... i love pvp as much as the next but man give the new pilots room to breathe.... it is a major turn off to i bet tons of players/ people who would like to join..... and PLEX has advantages... and cant knock ccp for making money off of their property.... but i dont buy plex to be honest... i pay my monthly sub with a credit card... done.. every stinking mofo isk ive made i made the hard way...... i bet half the population cant say that. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4952
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Posted - 2012.02.20 01:42:00 -
[227] - Quote
Edwin Atavuli wrote:ccp has to stop the suicide gank at least in high sec space on noobs... i love pvp as much as the next but man give the new pilots room to breathe. People don't suicide n00bs GÇö there's no point in it: no valuable drops and insignificant points on the killboards. New pilots have room to breathe, up until they leave that protected space.
Also, define "n00b"GǪ how are they going to determine that in a way that makes it possible (if it's even needed, which is questionable to begin with) to stop ganks of them but not of anyone else. At what point GÇö or rather, at what activity GÇö does someone cease to be a newbie?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Edwin Atavuli
DotCom Inc.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.20 02:29:00 -
[228] - Quote
People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...
noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?
give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4952
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 02:37:00 -
[229] - Quote
Edwin Atavuli wrote:People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games... No. Because there's no point in it. If you have to blow up a n00b, you do it in a non-harmful way through canflips and the like GÇö they are literally too worthless to sacrifice a suicide frigate/dessie on.
GǪand if they aren't, they're not n00bs any more. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
36
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Posted - 2012.02.20 02:42:00 -
[230] - Quote
Edwin Atavuli wrote:People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...
noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?
give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.
And how would you do that?
So you can't attack them until 1 million sp? So people can abuse that system with alts too.
It's probably better off leaving it as it is.
Not being attackable for the first two weeks (approx) you think will make a difference, I doubt that.
And we certainly don't want safe zones like WoW does on their PvP servers, that would not be EVE like at all. |
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Ai Shun
283
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Posted - 2012.02.20 03:39:00 -
[231] - Quote
Edwin Atavuli wrote:give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.
I'm not convinced. What do you gain by creating a false sense of security for them? All you are doing is delaying the time until they run into that brick wall.
I'd say it would be better to give them a tutorial mission that would introduce them to the harsh reality of a suicide gank or being destroyed. Use it to illustrate security status response times, jump clones and tie it in to the concepts introduced with The Awakening video.
Blow them up so they know what is in store for them and can adapt or quit before they commit too much of themselves to it. |
LordShazbot
Mad Wicked Space Swagger
0
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Posted - 2012.02.20 04:00:00 -
[232] - Quote
Eve will never die because it lives in all of us. XOXO
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foxnod
BOAE INC GIANTSBANE.
36
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Posted - 2012.02.20 04:04:00 -
[233] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Edwin Atavuli wrote:give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay. I'm not convinced. What do you gain by creating a false sense of security for them? All you are doing is delaying the time until they run into that brick wall. I'd say it would be better to give them a tutorial mission that would introduce them to the harsh reality of a suicide gank or being destroyed. Use it to illustrate security status response times, jump clones and tie it in to the concepts introduced with The Awakening video. Blow them up so they know what is in store for them and can adapt or quit before they commit too much of themselves to it.
As a part of the tutorial, have them sent into low/null sec to fight players till they die, and don't give them a ship to replace the one they just lost. |
Valentyn3
29
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Posted - 2012.02.20 04:06:00 -
[234] - Quote
foxnod wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Edwin Atavuli wrote:give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay. I'm not convinced. What do you gain by creating a false sense of security for them? All you are doing is delaying the time until they run into that brick wall. I'd say it would be better to give them a tutorial mission that would introduce them to the harsh reality of a suicide gank or being destroyed. Use it to illustrate security status response times, jump clones and tie it in to the concepts introduced with The Awakening video. Blow them up so they know what is in store for them and can adapt or quit before they commit too much of themselves to it. As a part of the tutorial, have them sent into low/null sec to fight players till they die, and don't give them a ship to replace the one they just lost.
Because that couldn't possibly turn people off of the game. Not at all. I used to be a Blade Runner like you, then I took an android to the knee... |
Mechael
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
35
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Posted - 2012.02.20 05:24:00 -
[235] - Quote
OP needs a better perspective on how EVE works, and to spend less time in General Discussion with the rest of us asshats who are by no means representative of the majority of EVE players.
I had to stop reading the replies, I was having Incarna flashbacks. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Ai Shun
284
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 05:45:00 -
[236] - Quote
Valentyn3 wrote:foxnod wrote:As a part of the tutorial, have them sent into low/null sec to fight players till they die, and don't give them a ship to replace the one they just lost. Because that couldn't possibly turn people off of the game. Not at all.
And?
What is the reality of EVE Online, Valentyn3? The vast majority of players will get blown up at some stage. Nobody but themselves or, if they are lucky, their corporation will replace that ship.
I would rather have a new subscriber learn what the game is like in their trial period than have them learn it three months down the line; after they've been molly coddled into believing they are safe in high-sec.
The sooner they deal with the reality of EVE Online the better for them, for us as a community and for the future health of the game. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3006
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 08:24:00 -
[237] - Quote
Edwin Atavuli wrote:People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...
noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?
give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.
Pro-tip: Most of the complaints about "new players" being suicide ganked are made by people flying exhumers and tengus. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Valei Khurelem
361
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 08:30:00 -
[238] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Edwin Atavuli wrote:People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...
noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?
give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay. Pro-tip: Most of the complaints about "new players" being suicide ganked are made by people flying exhumers and tengus.
Where's your proof?
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Sevastian Liao
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2012.02.20 08:42:00 -
[239] - Quote
Just throwing my 2 cents into what is actually a rather interesting debate, here. Based completely off personal anecdotes, so take them as you will.
First of all, F2P works. Yes, I said it, it works. I've been in dozens of F2P games before and in all cases said companies have gotten filthy rich selling below - par games revolving around the idea of "If you pay us oodles of cash, you get to win the game". There's no end to people willing to throw money into a virtual world to become as awesome as they wished they were IRL. That's assuming the company eventually trends towards a P2W model, which in my experience most end up doing eventually. Just relying on a vanity item cash shop doesn't seem to bring in enough to be sustainable for most other F2Ps, if any at all. And there's always something to be said for corporate greed.
That being said, what kind of success is that? Sure, you'll probably get a larger number of players, and many of them are probably happy little cash cows for your company, always willing to splurge cash on the next lottery box (good grief) that comes along. So now your community's made up of the typical P2W MMO gamer who's more concerned about how much win he can buy instead of how well he can think and plan.
Short story - In one of the previous games I played there was a territory war system, guilds had 3 lanes to take to assault enemy castles. Perfect for flanking attacks, for sneak assaults on the fortress, so many possibilities! What happened? Every E-Leet guild in the game had only ever one strategy - Head down the middle and smash. Smash. Rawr. Used to have a guild master who spent up to five figures - I kid you not - pimping out his char. When it came down to crunch time these were his exact orders" Just form up your own parties to fight guys. Don't worry, I can take half of them myself. =D=D=D" That's the general level of intellectual capacity of a majority of F2P players that I've experienced. I suspect I'm half ******** myself for staying in such a community hoping I could effect some changes.
It's annoying to get owned by a harsh, unforgiving playerbase. It's downright infuriating to lose to an idiot whose only saving grace was daddy's OP wallet. I see a lot of people saying that the older players giving grief to newbies is a terrible thing. I'm not far from a newb myself, and I've run into my share of canflippers and whatnot. After brief conversations most of them turn out to be great chaps, some have offered advice, and I honestly like having them around to burn off the chaff. As long as you don't go into a silly nerdrage over losses you won't be treated as someone better out of the game than it , I've found.
So basically - Sure, EVE will get more players if it overhauls over to a F2P model. Their revenue streams will most likely skyrocket too if they allow P2W through the NeX store. And if that's your only definition of success, well, okay, good for you. Good for the company even, in a sense. I like to think most of us are still capable of appreciating the quality inherent in EVE currently, still appreciate the relatively far more intelligent - If often trolly - community, and are proud of being a part of something on a different level than most other MMOs out there.
Besides, I think CCP was doing well as a money - making entity even, until hubris settled in. |
Edwin Atavuli
DotCom Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 09:16:00 -
[240] - Quote
CCP! God love em!
but wake up, EVE is pretty much allready = pay to win
Im not one to say they cant make money off of plex.. don't blame em one bit and the system kinda works... somewhat.
but i feel it's a broken one in many ways as well, as stated earlier i dont buy plex, i know lots do and thats fine if it works for them
but it also breeds more bots, tons of other things i wont get into.
as stated in earlier post..... i have not been playing eve long only 3 months... but that's long enough for me to see that something is fubar... lol....
"i get my isk the old fashioned way" I earn it \o/ what a f'ing concept!
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