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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 04:34:19 This was taken from the public section of the Sturmgrenadier website and reposted on our forums, but I thought the rest of the community would enjoy this well-written and (relatively) accurate account of what happened.
Quote: This is from my perspective as a member of the RISE alliance. I started as just a grunt, rose to a small fleet FC and then during the height of the invasion as a member of the 'homeguard' committee... I was, however, never on the 'ruling council' of RISE so take this information as that from someone who was there but not FULLY aware of all the political ins-and-outs of the situation.
I write this because a few members of our community have asked about it at one point or another. No, I don't intend to cross-post it to CAOD as that forum is a cesspool and not worth bothering with other than to read for a laugh or two now and then.
I joined RISE in June of '07 having recently left TSO when they decided to return to empire space. I joined the Sturmgrenadier corporation as I had previously been a member of Sturm in Planetside and knew many of it's members and had a lot of respect for how the syndicate does things.
My arrival in the RHG cluster was uneventful... I joined the corp, liquidated a few assets and set my clone to RIT station and podded myself to 0.0. Bought a new ship for ratting/pvp (hurricane) in and waited for my T2 gear, etc, to be carrier jumped out to RIT for me by Sturm's awesome logistics team. Within a week I had all of my T2 ships and gear in station and was fully up to speed. Things were good now. RA was still a harassing presence but things were otherwise fairly quiet. Shortly after I joined sturm we destroyed the last RA POS in the constellation and had established over 20 POS in KW-OAM (KOS space).
For about 2 weeks we put tremendous pressure on KOS and intel reports as well as our leaderships estimates put it at about 2, maybe 3 weeks until we had full control of KW-OAM and could move our offensive further into Teneferis. At this point KOS hired KIA to rescue them and KIA fulfilled that contract in spades. RISE was quickly pushed back onto the defensive as KIA fleets came into system during our EU timezones relentlessly forcing us to largely abandon our offensive. KOS failed to fully capitalize on this and remove our towers but our offensive was effectively stalled during the 3 weeks they held KIA under contract against us. At the end of this many of our pilots, especially in the EU timezone, were incapable of continuing a PVP offensive until they'd rebuilt isk reserves to support extended PVP ops so a lot of carebearing went on. Finally the orders went out to resume offensives and for about a week we really put the pressure back on KOS. Unfortunately they had help on the way...
Within about a week to a week and a half somewhere in the neighborhood of 9-10 alliances started knocking on RISE's front door daily. TCF, RA, Goons, CA, Frege, Freelancers, Invictus, KOS, AAA, IAC and a few other fleets I can't remember the alliances they were for would show up. This again put a halt to our offensive as we were unable to maintain steady pressure in KW. We would put a pos into reinforced at night (US TZ) only to have it come out during EU TZ while KOS's friends kept our EU players tied up defending RIT. This continued for about a month until RA/AAA/TCF pushed hard enough for several days to allow KOS to come into our space and spam towers in GHZ and 5P. Unfortunately for them this didn't last long as we rallied and eventually destroyed all 45 towers KOS had established.
Sturmgrenadier tried to go back on the offensive but at this point leadership at the alliance level must have been pretty divided as none of the other corps put any significant presence into the KW theatre. Eventually sturmgrenadier had to recall troops home to help defend against renewed pressure from PL & Goonswarm.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 04:33:30
Quote: None of this would have caused the downfall of RISE if not for some catastrophic failures on the part of RISE logistics team. During the various conflicts some serious errors were made.
* P8 (our front door) had only 8 moons. For some unknown reason the RISE council never saw fit to anchor more than 1 tower in P8 which allowed goonswarm, during the initial KOS invasion with RA/TCF/AAA to anchor 5 towers and seize sov in P8. * Not once, but THREE times towers were taken down in systems that evidently had no other towers claiming sovereignty. Breaking sov3 in 3 key systems, 2 of which were in our home cluster, allowing PL and others to ninja-anchor towers unbeknownst to our command, giving their camping forces easy access to resupply and a safe haven to run to whenever we would form a big enough gang to challenge them. * Home Guard command had little to no authority to issue orders. We would make plans only to have them scrapped by FC's who weren't even privvy to them. There was no central leader in RISE at all and the 'council' members pretty much couldn't agree on anything. * PL established an ongoing cloaked nano-gang in system, preventing RISE members from being able to easily make isk to replace ship losses with. Also brought a halt to most ratting/mining in the area severely hampering RISE's ability to generate positive cashflow. This caused an elimination of the 'ship reimbursement' program that had previously allowed RISE to quickly replace lost ships for it's pilots. While this didn't really affect the more hard-core pvp pilots in the alliance it did put an almost immediate stop to the more care-bear oriented pilots dotting up, thus severely depleting fleet sizes when called. * RISE council CONTINUED to insist that we send the vast majority of our pilots off to BOB fleets to assist with bob offensives/defenses even though we had a serious threat at home. PL's gangs were deemed 'no threat' to sovereignty by the council completely ignoring the fact that they were completely eliminating the manufacturing teams from doing their jobs. T2 and T1 equipment began to get harder and harder to obtain in RHG. Some corporations, like Sturmgrenadier, had good enough empire logistics in place to continue easy access to T2 and T1 gear but most of the other corporations really started to be affected like this and we started to slowly lose smaller corporations members as they became frustrated with the situation. * ISS abandoned a station system without notifying anyone in the GBC, thus allowing TCF to gain a station system within capital jump range of RHG
After a couple weeks homeguard council managed to get some key fleet battles with PL showing members that PL could be beaten (or at least chased off) if people would "just x up and get in gang". On two occasions we were able to bloody their noses and drive them out of the constellation long enough to allow folks to get out and make isk and mine much needed minerals. This began a brief resurgence in activity amongst members, etc. Fleet sizes grew and, while we couldn't keep RHG clear 23/7 we did manage to get some timezones clear of hostiles so that mining operations and other isk making could go on so pilots could rebuild PVP ship stocks.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:34:00 -
[3]
Quote: Then came the 'great backstabbing speach of '07' from our trusted friend and 'ally' BoB... Yaay, one of BoB's fleet commanders had asked RISE to muster a fleet for an undisclosed op. We gathered our forces and had 70 ships waiting for BOB in system when Yaay arrived. A huge feat for us considering all that had gone on previously and among the largest of the fleets assembled by RISE, all eager and ready to go out and wreck some havok upon our, and bob's, enemies. Instead of a combat operation, however... we got a speech... a speech which singlehandedly completely undid all the morale work that the HG command had done over the past weeks to recoup our fleet strengths. After that speech we never mustered more than 45 pilots in fleet again. Thanks Yaay! Big help you were. Single-handedly killed our rebound.
After that things just kind of slowly went downhill. I resigned from homeguard after several more fleet ops that we scheduled and planned never happened because BoB never showed up to fill their role in the plan. There were several plans to knock out the P8 Goonswarm pos's that required bob capital assistance, which was promised, then when the time came they were 'otherwise busy elsewhere and unavailable'. Meanwhile goonswarm was slowly ticking down to sov3 in P8... at which time we knew the end would be close as goons would be able to jump-bridge tremendous fleets right to our doorsteps....
Once P8 ticked to Sov3 Goons had anywhere between 100 and 200 pilots in the RHG cluster and P8 system. Posts on CAOD were comical at this point with Goons claiming that only 25 PL had locked down the RHG cluster entirely when it was, in fact, 25 PL/goons in RIT and approximately 25-30 more throughout the rest of the RIT cluster with an additional 25 or so sitting in P8 ready to come assist. Anytime we mustered enough pilots to chase PL out of our core regions several hundred enemy ships would show up in P8 via jump bridge to shut us back down again. No help was provided by BoB and no help was ever sent by ISS (who we had repeatedly assisted against FREGE and CA and Goons previously). Only DR, of all our 'allies' in the GBC ever showed up to assist but, unfortunately, they didn't have the numbers to truely be effective at the times we needed it.
About this time the leadership in RISE council became totaly divided issuing conflicting orders on a daily basis. One day the order went out to 'go make isk outside of RHG'. The next day orders were given to some corps to 'go back to empire to make isk' and on another day we were told to form up in AZN then 25s then DR space... at this point our PVP forces were so split up, and out of RHG that we actually had a hard time getting back to RHG to defend. Getting pilots to rally up at any one location became a logistical nightmare due to this and things just went south fast from there. Eventually TCF started anchoring POS in 5p. RA/Goons/whomever started anchoring pos in GHZ and once Sov4 was threatened the orders came down to begin evacuation of the systems. BoB did FINALLY come through at this point and helped us clear the systems. At this point we actually had an opportunity. We had secured RHG again briefly and could have counterspammed towers and quickly reset the sov counters back to full keeping sov4 intact and holding RHG even longer. BoB and RISE council chose not to and the evacuation continued.
I stayed with RISE long enough to help evacuate everyone to the Aridia region where PL persued and continued to harass pilots. Pilots continued to be blockheaded and lose ships for no damn good reason by flying alone in battleships/battlecruisers/haulers through lowsec space where PL could get easy kills. Finally everyone was moved and staging in aridia for a move into fountain began. PVP operations began again but numbers were still dismal with many pilots refusing to x up because they needed to make isk to replace losses.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:36:00 -
[4]
reserved for actual content ---
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Graalum on 01/02/2008 04:46:08 so the eye orf terror or whatever that **** was went into an 8 moon system? that sucks. * small pos and you might have had a chance.
Oh and lol at the 75 man fleet only to get a speech.
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Miss Domination
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:46:00 -
[6]
Hi Dungar.
PEOPLE OF RISE.....
bwahahaha _________________
Eagerly awaiting the phoenix called String of Sisters |
Re Mi
Caldari Funshine Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Miss Domination Hi Dungar.
PEOPLE OF RISE.....
bwahahaha
Impressive response. Your wit shines like the noon day sun and the verve and humor is cathartic. I long for the day when all posts can be filled with such lovely prose and prophetic wisdom.
Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation |
Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:55:00 -
[8]
I locked down aridia solo, ask dungar he know's he'll back me up
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Value Added
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:55:00 -
[9]
They didn't listen!
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Ackaroth
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.01 04:58:00 -
[10]
Interesting read. ___________________
Add total value of open buy and sell orders to "Orders" tab of wallet.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=626498 |
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:00:00 -
[11]
I love the fact that they forgot to mention they gained a foothold in kw via bob help and that when bob was busy in omist thier assault entirely stopped.
Same way they claim that they cleared all the towers in RIT when in fact it was bob prescence that caused the main problems there (not to mention rit was hosted on a toaster that lagged with 3 guys in the constellation)
Im not trying to smack RISE though. I had a great time when they were around. It was fighting them which first got me into small gang and solo pvp. I also fet sorry for them when the back stabbing speech came out.
I wish any of the rise members who i encountered good luck on future endeavours.
p.s If anyone here knows Magic Crisp tell him he was our favourite rise member
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Narciss Sevar
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Graalum Edited by: Graalum on 01/02/2008 04:46:08 so the eye orf terror or whatever that **** was went into an 8 moon system? that sucks. * small pos and you might have had a chance.
Oh and lol at the 75 man fleet only to get a speech.
More like 45 man fleet, but whatever.
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BoB sucks
Burning Bush Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:03:00 -
[13]
yep
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Aeryn Davenport
Claflin Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:30:00 -
[14]
Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
Why exactly should we care about an extensive diatribe about RISE's failures? Have other alliances not made mistakes, been defeated, and eventually disbanded as a result?
Will we get a similar post on KOS when their destruction at the hands of AAA is complete? How about the fact that KW was primarily defended by coalition forces OTHER than KOS? Ultimately the fight for KW was like the war in Korea or Afghanistan. Two major powers, BoB & the Coalition, using two insignificant powers, RISE & KOS, as fronts for their conflict.
Is it surprising that RISE could not take KW alone with 10+ alliances defending it? Is KOS pretending they were the main defenders? Conveniently forgetting the regular fleets of Goonswarm and AAA, as well as many other alliances, that came in to defend their territory? Let's not forget they also had to hire KIA.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:40:00 -
[15]
Quote: Then came the 'great backstabbing speach of '07' from our trusted friend and 'ally' BoB... Yaay, one of BoB's fleet commanders had asked RISE to muster a fleet for an undisclosed op. We gathered our forces and had 70 ships waiting for BOB in system when Yaay arrived. A huge feat for us considering all that had gone on previously and among the largest of the fleets assembled by RISE, all eager and ready to go out and wreck some havok upon our, and bob's, enemies. Instead of a combat operation, however... we got a speech... a speech which singlehandedly completely undid all the morale work that the HG command had done over the past weeks to recoup our fleet strengths. After that speech we never mustered more than 45 pilots in fleet again. Thanks Yaay! Big help you were. Single-handedly killed our rebound.
well worth 6b a month in rent good sir you simply fail to appreciate bobs munificence
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned, and then had a thread on their forums congratulating each other about it, funny thing was, we were kinda running out of steam at that point, half of us had wandered off to low sec to pirate or empire to suicide gank, after they done what they did, we had the entire alliance back on their doorstep, bubbled every station and gate in RHG, and locked them into their tomb for about 5 weeks until RSF capitals came along several weeks later to do their thing.
that being said, personally i think most of the RISE guys were really nice people, its just their rotten apples annoyed us to the point where we were going to kill them no matter what the cost was.
ps: most of those annoying RISE clowns are now in BNC or DICE :V
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
While the logistics team gets a lot of the blame, I kind of wonder how much of the failure was their fault - not putting up enough POSs along with their other problems sound more like a lack of leadership than someone not doing enough hauling. Can any former RISE members comment on this?
That's almost funny, since RISE once lost XZH to YouWhat despite a huge effort at maintaining POSes. They were outspammed 42-39 or something crazy like that when YouWhat anchored 10+ POSes overnight.
POS spamming is more boring than POS warfare is more boring than fleet fights, but in the end people prefer taking systems with POS spamming, because it's way too cheap.
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Narciss Sevar
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 06:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
Why exactly should we care about an extensive diatribe about RISE's failures? Have other alliances not made mistakes, been defeated, and eventually disbanded as a result?
Will we get a similar post on KOS when their destruction at the hands of AAA is complete? How about the fact that KW was primarily defended by coalition forces OTHER than KOS? Ultimately the fight for KW was like the war in Korea or Afghanistan. Two major powers, BoB & the Coalition, using two insignificant powers, RISE & KOS, as fronts for their conflict.
Is it surprising that RISE could not take KW alone with 10+ alliances defending it? Is KOS pretending they were the main defenders? Conveniently forgetting the regular fleets of Goonswarm and AAA, as well as many other alliances, that came in to defend their territory? Let's not forget they also had to hire KIA.
ahaha look at that dillusional ex rise guy
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Onchas Erivvia
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.01 06:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned
Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
--- "LOG OFF, LOG OFF, EVERYONE LOG THE F--- OFF NOW" - Suas, GoonSwarm Fleet Commander Sunday January 27, 2008 during a fleet fight with BoB in system QY8, approximately 21:55 EVT |
TrevorReznik
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 06:03:00 -
[20]
who was RISE?
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Attak
Trioptimum The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.02.01 06:24:00 -
[21]
Sturmgrenadier is awesome because they played Planetside, and Planetside was awesome. Mad props for that.
That being said, the guy who wrote that post joined them after RISE had become BoB pets, so really the point of view is a little off. Ask most people who were playing before RISE existed, and they'll tell you what went wrong was them moving to Feyth in the first place.
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Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 06:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
Because RISE smacked up a storm, then did almost nothing to stop their slow death by mass starvation.
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Straife
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 06:42:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Straife on 01/02/2008 06:42:35 Actually as a member of KOS defending KW- against Rise during this "fun" time in my eve career, there were actually only 3 ppl that defended KW- against Rise/ISS (along with the random drunk goons). The main defense was their failure to be able to take down posses out of their main TZ.
Oh and had -A- ever entered KW- it was to kill off KOS, not defend it, as -A- was never blue to KOS for more than about 6 hours during a fight in C3 against bob caps.
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.01 06:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned
Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
proof or STFU. list anything broken on the EULA. Oh sorry you can't, funny little bobbit. -
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Brmble
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 07:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned
Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
actually: if they hadn't petitioned PL would have lost interest (or so they want to make you believe :tinfoil:)
I bolded the relevant part in Gneeznow's post ~ no not believin in urself ~ |
CobraBytez
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 07:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
If you count RISE as NORAD's successor, they were one of GoonSwarm's oldest (and least competent) enemy. It felt good to finally send them back to empire (where they belonged).
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Bigeasy
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.02.01 07:18:00 -
[27]
Wow, things so boring in delve you have to make a rise post?
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |
Scavok
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.01 07:22:00 -
[28]
Claiming credit for P8- awesomeness ITT. I tried to get it done for awhile and I was excited as hell when Sesfan hopped on board. It kind of ****ed me off when just the pressure from PL and the psychological effect of what was inevitably coming killed them before we could get any decent fights.
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport
Is it surprising that RISE could not take KW alone with 10+ alliances defending it? Is KOS pretending they were the main defenders? Conveniently forgetting the regular fleets of Goonswarm and AAA, as well as many other alliances, that came in to defend their territory? Let's not forget they also had to hire KIA.
Goonswarm only came by for fun when you had an active fleet or vulnerable capitals. There was nothing else to kill in our primetime. We never repped a POS, it wasn't because we didn't care about KW, it was just never in danger and had no reason to burn our players out while busy in our own POS war with BoB.
Considering AAA has never had KOS positive, it's pretty safe to assume the same.
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Onchas Erivvia
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.01 07:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hubris Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
proof or STFU. list anything broken on the EULA. Oh sorry you can't, funny little bobbit.
You are the most tragically accurate named individual in the history of eve.
--- "LOG OFF, LOG OFF, EVERYONE LOG THE F--- OFF NOW" - Suas, GoonSwarm Fleet Commander Sunday January 27, 2008 during a fleet fight with BoB in system QY8, approximately 21:55 EVT |
Kylegar
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.02.01 07:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kylegar on 01/02/2008 07:50:51
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 04:40:24 I cut off the last paragraph of his post where he eventually leaves, but that is unimportant to the main story. The only inaccuracy I'd like to point out is
Quote: Posts on CAOD were comical at this point with Goons claiming that only 25 PL had locked down the RHG cluster entirely when it was, in fact, 25 PL/goons in RIT and approximately 25-30 more throughout the rest of the RIT cluster with an additional 25 or so sitting in P8 ready to come assist.
Those people were AFK at POSs - almost the entire time, everyone we had active was camping gates, stations, or doing trips around the constellation. But that is minor.
While the logistics team gets a lot of the blame, I kind of wonder how much of the failure was their fault - not putting up enough POSs along with their other problems sound more like a lack of leadership than someone not doing enough hauling. Can any former RISE members comment on this?
In my opinion, and as a former RISE member, I think the whole seige of RIT/GHZ/and 5p just went to show how a democratic system doesnt work in a time of extream pressure. We just didnt have a leader who made decisions during Augest/September. The council, like that was pointed out by the wall of text, Issued conflicting orders every day. It was to the point where I would log on, see 4 different things to do, say "Screw It" and log off.
IMO, A single leader would have saved RISE, just noone stepped up to tell the council to shut up and get along. There was alot of good people in RISE, and ALOT of people that were totally ****ed at the council.
Oh, and I can tell you of atleast 20 people in RISE that mass petitioned spammed to get Farscape Unbanned. There was more support (not on our forums) to get him unbanned than there was to get him banned. --
Originally by: CCP Ginger No sex changes.
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