Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
CONCORD Curate
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:04:00 -
[1]
IÆve read some of the posts on this, and I think the arguments against it are very weak.
A main argument against it is players want to form corps and control resources in 0.0. Do you think that even all the Carebears of the universe can really carry away any significant amount of all the resources in 0.0? What Carebear is going to go out into 0.0 and mine and haul all the way back to empire in most cases, since he would not be welcome at most corporation owned stations. Even if they do, what difference does it make? The wars can continue. The PVPrÆs can continue to stalk and kill each other. I hear rumors that CCP would like to get more people out of congested empire space. But they donÆt do anything to encourage it.
I for one, get tired of being set upon by PVPrÆs while I am doing a mission, or expedition that happens to enter low sec space. I take my PVE equipped ship into low sec and get blown away by PVPrÆs in heavy interdictors and battleships. Just to be expected of peeps that would rather destroy than build I guess. I canÆt imagine what gratification they get from it. It is just like the cat pouncing on the mouse, nothing more, nothing less. Just imagine if you could actually run a mission, or go exploring, mine, or kill belt rats without having to be suspicious of everyone else in the system? Gee..I guess there is no fun in that.
But with flagging, a PVPr could still live life on the edge. You wouldnÆt have to change gate camp interdiction fields. You could still annoy Carebears by making them crawl through to the gates, like a fly in molasses.
Oh..but the spys! A Carebear could enter BOB space and spy on them and scout out the secret location of the latest Titan, for extinction. True they could. But since CCP already has a way of determining which corporation controls a system(s), the ôprivately ownedö systems could be off limits to Carebear flagged players. That would leave a whole lot of 0.0, and all of low sec open to Carebears, reducing the congestion in ôempireö.
Now, what IF Carebears were able to set up their own POS in open space? Wow, peeps of both the PVP and Carebear attitude could sure use that out in the middle of nowhere. It might be a rush of expansion into 0.0, just like CCP says it would like. And if a Corp wanted to expand, they could buy the station(s) and expand their ôprivateö territory.
So, my final conclusion is that EVE is a whole lot like a microcosm of Real Life, Corps in place of Nations, Pirates in place of Parasites. I actually started playing EVE to escape real life for a bit, but I find it is more like real life every day, and unless the game changes to allow more for those who donÆt enjoy killing each other, I think IÆll just go spend my money elsewhere, and may the biggest, badest Corp rule the universeàuntil the next one comes along.
|
ZeroZero Merchant
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:06:00 -
[2]
Can I have your stuff?
|
F90OEX
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:06:00 -
[3]
As they say, Eve can be a harsh game just like in RL. Eve is not for everyone :)
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:10:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Akita T on 01/02/2008 15:11:25
I am usually pretty "carebearish" myself, but I heartily NOT endorse this proposal.
P.S. I hear both Goon and BOB TS was full of "OMG, neutral at POS... can't be, it's a BUG!" chatter recently
1|2|3|4|5. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:49:00 -
[5]
No. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2 |
Mark Lucius
The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:58:00 -
[6]
Maybe a single player game is for you? ---
|
Zaqar
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:04:00 -
[7]
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mark Lucius Maybe a single player game is for you?
Single-player EVE ? With NPCs behaving (more or less) like humans ? I must shamefully admit I'd be playing that every once in a while. With cheat codes "Say hello to my little friend..." *boom* Judgement blast on Jita 4-4 undock point !
1|2|3|4|5. |
Zaskarr
Amarr Falling Stars Squadron
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:40:00 -
[9]
I don't even want your stuff. Just go __________________ How do I shot web? |
Vabjekf
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Vabjekf on 01/02/2008 16:53:08 Not a good idea, but not as bad as people are probably going to make it out for though. And to argue against flaming you:
1. A lot of people don't want to risk lots for little/no reward. Which pvp seems to be about unless you just set up a gate camp somewhere.
2. A lot of said people (mostly gate campers=P) are sad that not many people are coming into their areas any longer.
3. Empire is overpopulated
4. There is a lot of open space out there that nobody is really using.
Everyone would like to see that last part change. But nobody is willing to do what it would take to make it happen. They don't want to compromise on it, and just want CCP to invent some magic way to send herds of carebear lemmings off to the gate camp.
If lowsec/npc0.0 is ever going to get more people, the pvpers are going to HAVE to take a hit. Because currently there is no possible way to make the gain avalable out there worth the risk. And carebears tend to know how math works and thus avoid the less profitable areas. And making those areas profitable enough to realy make it worth it, would so horribly unbalance the game that its just not possible.
The only options are.
1. Things stay how they are 2. lowsec/npc0.0 need to become safer
I personally don't mind things the way they are right now, i think CCP will eventually just come out with more empire regions if things get too bad, but anyone arguing against how things are right now, coming from any side or angle, needs to understand that what ive said is how it is and you can not ask for change unless you ask for a safer low sec, because thats the only option.
|
|
Roy Gordon
Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:59:00 -
[11]
I'm a mostly carebear type of player, interested in the main in mission running and the such like. I've done a little PvP and it has its part to play. So, taking this onboard, I'm going to go against the grain and say this is a bad idea. If you want the isk, you have to take the risk, pure and simple. I've done the missions in Otsasai for that nice lvl 4 aent. Sure I lost a couple of Ravens, but that was the risk I choose to take for the rewards i.e. increase mission rewards/bonus payments and higher LP awards. So, stick to high sec if you dont want to be shot! That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
Shiguni Jhi
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:01:00 -
[12]
I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I will just point out that PotBS has a rather unique way of addressing this. It includes the development of PVP zones and flagging PVP ships as such, and the zones grow and shrink due to instability around the ports.
I'm not advocating "zones" or battle arenas for PVP in Eve, but rather that it may be desireable to have a little more flexible design in lowsec where PVP players are flagged as such and PVE/roid-runners can enter without being tagged and trashed. That way, the PVP players could actually focus on having decent PVP battles and not just gank-fests, and the low-sec would get a little more population.
|
Missy X
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:13:00 -
[13]
I don't like the idea of flagging non-hostile ships (I refuse to use the 'c' word as it's completely inaccurate and inappropriate in almost every case), only because flagging is completely unrealistic. Why would a pirate care what flag you have raised in real life? They just want your loot. Flagging is fine for something like WoW where realism and immersion isn't a priority. Not fine for EVE, where freedom, risk and atmosphere are primary reasons why people play the game.
|
Vabjekf
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:14:00 -
[14]
Chokepoints in space doesn't seem very realistic to me=p
|
CONCORD Curate
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:17:00 -
[15]
Amen!
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:20:00 -
[16]
you aren't fooling ME tarmy
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
|
Missy X
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:20:00 -
[17]
I'd personally like to see a slightly safer lowsec too, if only out of personal selfishness, but flagging isn't the solution. In fact I'm not sure what the solution is, but there has to be a better way than copying WoW.
|
Salliene
Gallente RennTech SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:22:00 -
[18]
I can understand wanting to play a non-PVP game. I can understand wanting to play a PVP game.
What I can't understand is playing a PVP game and whining because they won't change the fundamental premise of the entire game for the past X number of years to suit you.
This isn't Monopoly, there are no "house rules". Here if you land on Boardwalk and BOB has 4 hotels on it, you are screwed. Changing the rules so that you can turn on a switch and not have to pay BOB for landing on Boardwalk won't make the game more fun for ANYONE.
In Ultima Online, it wasn't until the carebears finally whined their way into getting their carebear land that they came to realize the fact that the game world was actually dangerous is what made the game so much fun, gave so much more sense of accomplishment when you did something. Once people started being able to play UO in "safe mode" there was no point anymore, cause there was this other new game on the market that had 3D graphics.
I came of out 2 years of pre-safe-mode UO with more memories and stories than I did in 8 years of EQ and WOW.
|
Little Fistter
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:33:00 -
[19]
You really have not thought this through, have you?
-sigh-
Suggestion: Please color jump gates the same color as the system security rating of the destination system in the overview.
|
Moonmonkey
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:35:00 -
[20]
Making it harder to find people in low sec would be a good start. Local chat should not show whos in an area and a change to senser so that you can hide from them without being stealthed. I think that would make for some better pvp as it would bring more people to 0 space.
|
|
Little Fistter
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Moonmonkey Making it harder to find people in low sec would be a good start. Local chat should not show whos in an area and a change to senser so that you can hide from them without being stealthed. I think that would make for some better pvp as it would bring more people to 0 space.
Ohhhhhh. That's good. I always thought Local list gives out too much info. Imagine Eve where there is no Local list unless some chats on local?
This would be good for the PvP realm (see my ideas above please.)
Oh, and I have an idea for naming the divergent worlds:
Eve Empire focuses on economic conquest and Eve Wild Worlds focuses on survival and combat.
Think of it, CCP, double the number of users, happier users, more paying subscribers!
Suggestion: Please color jump gates the same color as the system security rating of the destination system in the overview.
LITTLE FISTTER
Broken Sigs?
|
000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:49:00 -
[22]
I'm a carebear, i admit this, i don't enjoy the ship to ship pvp at all, but ur suggestion is.. to terrible for words, one of the things that i like about eve is that in theory u are not safe anywhere, not in hi sec, not in low sec. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
|
Moonmonkey
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Little Fistter
Originally by: Moonmonkey Making it harder to find people in low sec would be a good start. Local chat should not show whos in an area and a change to senser so that you can hide from them without being stealthed. I think that would make for some better pvp as it would bring more people to 0 space.
Ohhhhhh. That's good. I always thought Local list gives out too much info. Imagine Eve where there is no Local list unless some chats on local?
This would be good for the PvP realm (see my ideas above please.)
Oh, and I have an idea for naming the divergent worlds:
Eve Empire focuses on economic conquest and Eve Wild Worlds focuses on survival and combat.
Think of it, CCP, double the number of users, happier users, more paying subscribers!
Im a carebear who likes the threat of pvp, without it Eve would be dull. Like you said Local gives out to much imformation. Carebears know if there are pirates in a system and pirates know if there are carebears. PVP would be better if you had to realy search a system.
|
Mark Lucius
The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 I'm a carebear, i admit this, i don't enjoy the ship to ship pvp at all, but ur suggestion is.. to terrible for words, one of the things that i like about eve is that in theory u are not safe anywhere, not in hi sec, not in low sec.
I am pretty much the opposite, but I agree that the idea is terrible.
As I said in my first reply, if you don't like to interact with people, play a single player game (or maybe a co-op game). Eve is multiplayer game and it means that you will have to interact with others at one point or other, whether you want to or not. Learn to work together and to interact.
More importantly, carebearism and pirate-ism go hand in hand and are entirely integrated in Eve. The one doesn't go without the other. Changing one will destroy Eve as it is now. You are better off asking for a new game.
And seriously...it is so easy to at least take care of yourself in Eve. You should really consider another game if you cannot do this. ---
|
Kobushi
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vabjekf
The only options are.
1. Things stay how they are 2. lowsec/npc0.0 need to become safer
1. CCP is doing it right, doing nothing will increase the population density gradually. The increasing demographic pressure will gradually decrease the reward either by forcing more and more people to share the same ressources of by attracting more and more toons that feed on carebear(you tend to see more pickpocket in a busy city square then in a cow pasture).
At this point 3 things can happen to any individual(s)/group(s)/population(s):
- They will stay put and will have to compete harder to keep there share of the pie.
- They will stay put and will not be able to keep up with the competition and will see there share diminish.
-More adaptive and/or desperate population will move to less populous area to preserve/increase there ressources input.
This is is how human have behaved time and time again in history as old niches are filled and new one created. Population shift will be gradual and will not upset the balance of lowsec/0.0.
As for making lowsec/0.0 safer well I say nay. Besides 0.0 is already really safe, density is so low you can go days at a time not seeing a living soul. Ok when you hit trouble it tend to be deadlier, but if you are a bit careful and is able to think for 2 cents worth you will have not problem what so ever.
|
Marthes Farshot
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:55:00 -
[26]
the only way i can see in making low sec areas safer is if a corp has established a pos in that system is to be allowed to hire a npc security force that acts like concord, the more money you spend on your security the better the ships are that come to your aide. but this is just a idea.
|
nether void
Caldari Shrapnel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 19:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Little Fistter
Make a new server, and call it Trammel!
We learn from our past, and this will never happen to a game again...well unless they just want the game to die.
I'm a PvEer and love WoW, but creating Trammeve would kill this game. Also no to flagging. Almost as bad of a proposed solution as Trammeve. --------------------------- CEO Shrapnel Industries "You like to blow s*** up, and we like to make that possible." nethervoid - since '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|EVE|NWN|VG Beta|WoW] |
Letouk Mernel
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 19:53:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 01/02/2008 19:53:46
Going to 0.0 as a carebear trying to get resources, I wouldn't try to bring them back to Empire, I'd try to sell them / put them to use locally.
Ideally, what I want is a system where us carebears can invade 0.0 and empirize it, put up infrastructure and have NPC's appear and police, the sec status of the system increase, and so on and so forth. You PVP'ers be free to attack the infrastructure (and the carebears) to bring the system back down to 0.0 standing.
But I'd like to build all the features of empire space, complete with stations, police, flagging and concordoken, trading, manufacturing, etc., out there. Player-owned stations, contracts with Concord or factional navies paid for by players (so that they get paid for thier policing work), I don't care.
Players can go out to 0.0 and do some stuff, but currently we can't do everything that the NPCs can do. Especially the police drones and sentry guns parts. People stay in Empire because those two things.
Edit: This is what --> I <-- want, and as such I realize most of you don't and in fact hate that kind of game. No need to flame me.
|
Mark Lucius
The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 20:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel
Ideally, what I want is a system where us carebears can invade 0.0 and empirize it, put up infrastructure and have NPC's appear and police, the sec status of the system increase, and so on and so forth. You PVP'ers be free to attack the infrastructure (and the carebears) to bring the system back down to 0.0 standing.
But I'd like to build all the features of empire space, complete with stations, police, flagging and concordoken, trading, manufacturing, etc., out there. Player-owned stations, contracts with Concord or factional navies paid for by players (so that they get paid for thier policing work), I don't care.
Players can go out to 0.0 and do some stuff, but currently we can't do everything that the NPCs can do. Especially the police drones and sentry guns parts. People stay in Empire because those two things.
Edit: This is what --> I <-- want, and as such I realize most of you don't and in fact hate that kind of game. No need to flame me.
I like your idea. The thing is that you can do most of this already. The difference is that you need real players to do the invading and 'policing'. This is the integration of the fighting/carebearing that I talked about in my previous post above. The fighters need stuff hauled/manufactured and the carebears need protection/customers.
Try finding a Fighting corp that needs their carebear stuff taken care of and make deals. ---
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 20:05:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 01/02/2008 20:06:30
Originally by: Letouk Mernel Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 01/02/2008 19:53:46
Going to 0.0 as a carebear trying to get resources, I wouldn't try to bring them back to Empire, I'd try to sell them / put them to use locally.
Ideally, what I want is a system where us carebears can invade 0.0 and empirize it, put up infrastructure and have NPC's appear and police, the sec status of the system increase, and so on and so forth. You PVP'ers be free to attack the infrastructure (and the carebears) to bring the system back down to 0.0 standing.
But I'd like to build all the features of empire space, complete with stations, police, flagging and concordoken, trading, manufacturing, etc., out there. Player-owned stations, contracts with Concord or factional navies paid for by players (so that they get paid for thier policing work), I don't care.
Players can go out to 0.0 and do some stuff, but currently we can't do everything that the NPCs can do. Especially the police drones and sentry guns parts. People stay in Empire because those two things.
Edit: This is what --> I <-- want, and as such I realize most of you don't and in fact hate that kind of game. No need to flame me.
The goons will destroy you!
BTW, I been carebearing it up! My sec stats are up to -9.3! I am going to go on a can flipping SPREE when I get back
Originally by: Sharupak When you go to vote, you are voting on whether you want to bend over or get on your knees.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |