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Rikeka Amarr Eye of God Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:25:00 - [331] Edited by: Rikeka on 04/02/2008 21:26:37 True. Any change to Amarr is a boost. I don¦t get why people whine about the Megathron... I would love a 190km sniper ship so easy to fit. No need of PG upgrade mods, etc... BTW... as Johnny said: The Apoc still needs 2 RCU II¦s to fit Tachyon¦s even after the proposed changes... But, really, from my part no problem there. I¦m more concerned of the Zealot 5th turret. Is impossible to fit one, not only as it¦s current cap does not allow to fire 4turrets for more than 50 seconds... But because there is not enough CPU and PG to fit a 5th turret... unless you use it without a MAR and without a MWD... and with only 2 Heat Sinks... Hell, a Zealot with only 4 Heavy Pulse II¦s, a MWD, and a MAR will run out of cap in 40 seconds... In fact, you need 2 CPR II¦s in the lows and 2 Cap Rechanger II¦s in the mids to have the 4 Pulses, the MWD and the MAR turned on for over 90 seconds... Whoever says Lasers are fine as it is, needs to make a an Amarr character and try it for themselves... Any change to Amarr AND Lasers are welcome.
General StarScream Borg Collective hive mind	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:37:00 - [332] Ye great amarrs demand uber dps, uber speed, Uber tank, Uber quik change in range, uber tracking, easy to fit ship, and that everyone else suck. if people dont make changes to all the races when doing something dont bother doing it to one, since it will be unfair to those whom have spent a long time skilling for something. Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
General StarScream Borg Collective hive mind	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:39:00 - [333] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Seishi Maru Well for starters... not only you don need a CPU mod to fit the 8th low slot, but also the 8th low slot DOES NOT EXIST!!!! Looks at time of your post. Looks at MY post on 04/02/2008 12:18:09 Do you not read NAVY apoc to compare to bog standard Mega? Do you ever think that ANTI-AMARR people take things out of contex, to confuse idiots who read these forums? Ye and there names Start with a Ja and ends with JO Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.02.04 22:10:00 - [334] Originally by: General StarScream Ye great amarrs demand uber dps, uber speed, Uber tank, Uber quik change in range, uber tracking, easy to fit ship, and that everyone else suck. if people dont make changes to all the races when doing something dont bother doing it to one, since it will be unfair to those whom have spent a long time skilling for something. I can give you great advice. Advice amarr has been given by the 3 other races for over 2 years: CROSS TRAIN!
Firmus Terra	Posted - 2008.02.05 01:16:00 - [335] Edited by: Firmus Terra on 05/02/2008 01:18:22 Originally by: Firkragg Wrong cap isnt a massive issue with the ship bonuses. You can argue that your loosing a damage bonus because of it but the fact is that lasers do OMGWTF damage anyways if compared to weapons of similar range. Lies. Torps out damage megapulses by over 23% with similar range, arbitrary damage type, and they cost no cap whatsoever. You've got the wrong idea about pulse damage. It's not actually high, it's very average. And despite paying for medium range with lower tracking, lower damage and restricted damage types which still suck, we pay again with the loss of a ship bonus and cap use that is higher than any other weapons system even with the bonus applied. If you ask me, lasers pay out the arse for the single benefit of medium range, which is gimped by the fact that webifiers and MWD's are used on practically every ship. The second bonus doesn't have to be a damage bonus. Cutting laser cap use in half and giving us a maximum capacitor bonus would be fine. As it stands, laser boats other than the Apoc are still cap gimped when Amarr is supposed to be the capacitor race. This was always the #1 issue in the Amarr whine threads.
Daelin Blackleaf	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:51:00 - [336] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/02/2008 16:56:03 Reducing the cap usage on large lasers would turn the Abaddon into a beast when plated and close range fitted. Can't you be happy with a cheap gankmobile, a sniper, and a close/med range ship muncher? EDIT: To the above poster, imo Torps are mildly overpowered, and the vast majority of those whining about cap usage on lasers before were trying to fit a full rack of highest cap use guns, with high cap use crystals, and twin LAR. Switch to plates on such a set-up and you have a set-up very comparable to that of the Megathron. Too many people want to have it all on one ship with one set-up.
Min Seong Amarr Brotherhood of the Sword	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:53:00 - [337] If they just give us a khanid BS everyone will be happy
Brianna Talnor	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:53:00 - [338] Originally by: Titus Lewis These changes are a step in the right direction and only a year or so overdue. Thank you CCP. I've waited so many years to hear people whine about the strength of Amarr ships. Perhaps finally the years of training will pay off a little bit. I want people to whine louder in this thread please, I love it so much. Your tears are so sweet, so very sweet. You speak the truth brother
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.06 01:16:00 - [339] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/02/2008 16:56:03 Reducing the cap usage on large lasers would turn the Abaddon into a beast when plated and close range fitted. Can't you be happy with a cheap gankmobile, a sniper, and a close/med range ship muncher? EDIT: To the above poster, imo Torps are mildly overpowered, and the vast majority of those whining about cap usage on lasers before were trying to fit a full rack of highest cap use guns, with high cap use crystals, and twin LAR. Switch to plates on such a set-up and you have a set-up very comparable to that of the Megathron. Too many people want to have it all on one ship with one set-up. oh shut up. I'm so tired of people trying to keep Amarr down. Stupid people..... Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Daelin Blackleaf	Posted - 2008.02.07 08:50:00 - [340] I can't figure out if your being sarcastic or not. If not at least I backed up my comment with reasoning, perhaps you could do the same. If so, well played sir.

Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.07 10:01:00 - [341] Originally by: Min Seong If they just give us a khanid BS everyone will be happy no I won 't ( I want my Apoc as sniper!!) Want torps get a raven as everyone else. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:24:00 - [342] Originally by: Firmus Terra Edited by: Firmus Terra on 04/02/2008 13:05:44 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Laser cap red is not needed after changes. Lasers are becoming one of heaviest hitting weapons now so reduction would make em over the top. Um, lasers are still going to be one the weakest choices in PvP outside of sniper fleets. The EM resistance change did not magically push our DPS to blaster level, EM is still the weakest damage against armor tanks (two thirds of eve), and lasers still have mediocre maximum DPS. So how did you translate that into "lasers = becoming heaviest hitting weapons"? Missile and projectile users can pick Amarr damage types at will. I promise you that you won't be seeing Minmatar and Caldari pilots switching to EM ammo to break an armor tank any time soon. Primary concern of the Amarr community was always capacitor use of lasers and the second bonus that it steals from so many ships. The changes are nice but they are for the most part fixes with a very limited focus and these issues so far have not been addressed. The Apoc boost seems to have everyone convinced that fleet sniping is the crux of EVE. The changes might seem a little overwhelming to you, but if you calm down for a second and look at them objectively you'll see laser boats in general are still almost as bad off as they were before. Start flying geddon maybe you will understand what i meant. Atm fight with blaster mega/blaster hype is 50/50 game. After changes it wont be sure victory but it will help quite a bit in this combat. Also it will help a LOT vs minnie armor tanks. Oh and 20% damage increase on EM = 10% total damage increase (using multi ammo with 50/50 EM/thermal split). I always like 10% more damage. As for capacitor problems - as soon as you drop them down blaster users will also cry for cap reduction. Except for some ships (zealot/absolution/abaddon) i can live with cap being sucked by guns. Oh yea - and zealot will have serious cap issues now :) Read: 25% more cap use ;p
Karma Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 23:12:00 - [343] all I want to know is... WHERE on the zealot/omen is this fabled fifth turret located? screenshot would be nice. but a description of its placement will also be accepted. I just wish it isn't as malplaced as the seventh turret on the Harbinger. yes. this is important.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.08 00:23:00 - [344] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Mega (60k Effective Hp) 7 x 425 II/ Spike L 100mn MWD, 2 x Sensor booster, Cap recharger 1 x 1600 Plate, 1 x DC II, 3 x Magnetic Field Stabaliser, 2 x Cap power relay II Runs Forever and needs no fitting mods. Drop mfs or plate for tracking enhancer for range if needed. Originally by: Jonny JoJo Sorry - 80km Optimal is stupid when you are sniping people 160km away. You do 0 DPS. Please try again with your 8 tach setup. Try using tach next time you try to do a 8 tach setup challange, it helps. And your setup has terrible tracking - worst tracking even after those tracking mods of all non-amarr close range battleships.. Quote: Originally by: Jonny JoJo Currently, on new apoc its 8 tach II with/aurora 100mn MWD, 2 x Sensor booster II, 1 x Cap Recharger II 3 x Heatsink II, 2 x RCU II, 1 x CPU II, 1 DC II, 1 x Cap relay II And even then and lasts for 7 mins, 22 seconds. I wish that I still did not waste on 3 fitting mods :(. All the new apoc means is that I can use 3 x Heatsinks mods insted of 3 x Tracking mods. EDIT - Lol and I used Navy Apoc. Imagine standard apoc being wore off grid wise/slot wise You dont need 3 fitting mods, are you ******? P.S. [Apocalypse, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Reactor Control Unit II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Fires forever, does as much DPS as your Megathron, with better tracking, with the same EHP. But it hits 165km optimal while your ****** fit only hits 130
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.08 00:24:00 - [345] Originally by: Karma all I want to know is... WHERE on the zealot/omen is this fabled fifth turret located? screenshot would be nice. but a description of its placement will also be accepted. I just wish it isn't as malplaced as the seventh turret on the Harbinger. yes. this is important. Its on the engine, it looks fine
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.08 00:25:00 - [346] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/02/2008 16:56:03 Reducing the cap usage on large lasers would turn the Abaddon into a beast when plated and close range fitted. Can't you be happy with a cheap gankmobile, a sniper, and a close/med range ship muncher? EDIT: To the above poster, imo Torps are mildly overpowered, and the vast majority of those whining about cap usage on lasers before were trying to fit a full rack of highest cap use guns, with high cap use crystals, and twin LAR. Switch to plates on such a set-up and you have a set-up very comparable to that of the Megathron. Too many people want to have it all on one ship with one set-up. oh shut up. I'm so tired of people trying to keep Amarr down. Stupid people..... QFT. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Movit	Posted - 2008.02.08 10:39:00 - [347] DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN IDEA WHEN THEY MOVE THE SHANGES TO the main server? I am dreaming of them. Regarding the fitting of the Zealot. 1. It fits well with the 5th turet. Easily. (Tip. Don't forget about Rigs) 2. Regarding Cap usage of Zealot. All you need the MWD for is to aproach the sucker. Thats all. Turn it off afterwards and you will have the cap. (Tip. Cap BOoster) And Finaly. Please tell me when they will make these a reality on the main server?
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.08 11:33:00 - [348] Originally by: Wu Jiun Edited by: Wu Jiun on 02/02/2008 08:50:12 Originally by: Merin Ryskin apoc being overpowered now Ok, lets for one moment take anything you say for granted. Then please do me the favour and answer the question lyria implicitly asked: What if not sniping should the apoc be good at? Your question how many races does eve have is indeed spot on. Currently whatever it is speed, closerange/1v1 gank, sniping, or ewar somebody (not amarr) thinks he should have the best ships at and should have competitive ships at. Guess what amarr are no different. They'd like to have competitive ships too. Until now apoc wasn't competitive not as a sniper and not in closerange either. So whats left for us? I am tired of getting told "oh its a gallente ship they should own you in closerange", "oh its a rokh it needs to be the better sniper", "oh its a falcon it needs to have the better range/more useful/less cap intense ewar" I'd really like to hear some constructive ideas rather than crying for a nerf of the apoc before it even got boosted. Take a raven and compare it to abaddon/geddon. It gets same range, more damage, no cap use and arbitrary damage types with 6 siege launchers compared to 7 mps on the geddon and 8 on the baddon. Do i see you crying for a nerf? Amarr are the supposed kings of medium range, aren't we? Where is your precious balance here? Funny by the way the mp geddon/baddon do have 10km falloff in which they exceed the siege ravens range. Reminds me of the 10km that your rokh has over the apoc. What goes around comes around you know? Really people are just used to being better than amarr on pretty much every account. Thats the only problem we have currently. This sums it up well, post with your main btw Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
shinsushi	Posted - 2008.02.08 11:44:00 - [349] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Jonny JoJo Mega (60k Effective Hp) 7 x 425 II/ Spike L 100mn MWD, 2 x Sensor booster, Cap recharger 1 x 1600 Plate, 1 x DC II, 3 x Magnetic Field Stabaliser, 2 x Cap power relay II Runs Forever and needs no fitting mods. Drop mfs or plate for tracking enhancer for range if needed. Originally by: Jonny JoJo Sorry - 80km Optimal is stupid when you are sniping people 160km away. You do 0 DPS. Please try again with your 8 tach setup. Try using tach next time you try to do a 8 tach setup challange, it helps. And your setup has terrible tracking - worst tracking even after those tracking mods of all non-amarr close range battleships.. Quote: Originally by: Jonny JoJo Currently, on new apoc its 8 tach II with/aurora 100mn MWD, 2 x Sensor booster II, 1 x Cap Recharger II 3 x Heatsink II, 2 x RCU II, 1 x CPU II, 1 DC II, 1 x Cap relay II And even then and lasts for 7 mins, 22 seconds. I wish that I still did not waste on 3 fitting mods :(. All the new apoc means is that I can use 3 x Heatsinks mods insted of 3 x Tracking mods. EDIT - Lol and I used Navy Apoc. Imagine standard apoc being wore off grid wise/slot wise You dont need 3 fitting mods, are you ******? P.S. [Apocalypse, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Reactor Control Unit II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Fires forever, does as much DPS as your Megathron, with better tracking, with the same EHP. But it hits 165km optimal while your ****** fit only hits 130 Hmmm.... so the Apoc looses 1 damage mod AND a DC in order to fit its guns(2x RCUII), what consolidation does the Mega make to fit its highest damage, longest range guns? An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
HEINZ ZERO PsyCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.08 11:52:00 - [350] Originally by: Movit DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN IDEA WHEN THEY MOVE THE SHANGES TO the main server? I am dreaming of them. Regarding the fitting of the Zealot. 1. It fits well with the 5th turet. Easily. (Tip. Don't forget about Rigs) 2. Regarding Cap usage of Zealot. All you need the MWD for is to aproach the sucker. Thats all. Turn it off afterwards and you will have the cap. (Tip. Cap BOoster) And Finaly. Please tell me when they will make these a reality on the main server? The bigger Problem is the omen atm. I tried some T1 fittings (T1 FMP fittings for newer players) ..even with AWU 5, fitting this ship is nearly impossible. Only some AB fittings work. Fittings with MWD are not possible. The omen really needs more CPU + PG... this ship is impossible to fit for newer Players ..and don¦t even think about T2 gun fittings

Firmus Terra	Posted - 2008.02.08 12:17:00 - [351] Edited by: Firmus Terra on 08/02/2008 12:20:55 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Start flying geddon maybe you will understand what i meant. Atm fight with blaster mega/blaster hype is 50/50 game. After changes it wont be sure victory but it will help quite a bit in this combat. Also it will help a LOT vs minnie armor tanks. You seriously think a 'Geddon has a 50% chance vs. a Megathron? Originally by: Deva Blackfire Oh and 20% damage increase on EM = 10% total damage increase (using multi ammo with 50/50 EM/thermal split). I always like 10% more damage. Have you stopped to think that maybe 10% isn't all that much when it's boosting our damage per hit from something like 30 to 33 on T2 omni tanks? EM is still the single weakest damage type vs. armor, and armor is still the prevailing method of tanking in PvP. That hasn't and is not going to change. Recalculating it as a percentile just makes it seem big, it doesn't mean you're going to break tanks much easier in practice. Originally by: Deva Blackfire As for capacitor problems - as soon as you drop them down blaster users will also cry for cap reduction. Except for some ships (zealot/absolution/abaddon) i can live with cap being sucked by guns. Oh yea - and zealot will have serious cap issues now :) Read: 25% more cap use ;p Why would blaster users cry for a cap reduction when blasters would still use less cap than lasers by ~10%, do much greater DPS, have better tracking and better damage types?
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.08 13:26:00 - [352] Originally by: Firmus Terra Edited by: Firmus Terra on 08/02/2008 12:38:56 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Start flying geddon maybe you will understand what i meant. Atm fight with blaster mega/blaster hype is 50/50 game. After changes it wont be sure victory but it will help quite a bit in this combat. Also it will help a LOT vs minnie armor tanks. You seriously think a 'Geddon has a 50% chance vs. a Megathron? I don't see how that's remotely possible, since they're both quite similar in style aside from the mega being slightly better in almost every aspect, but OK. I specialize in T2 cruisers personally so I wouldn't know. But then again I don't think anyone would because where are you going to get two people who are identically skilled in each respective ship with equal fittings to 1v1 each other? Then dont "assume" things. And dont guess. If you dont use lasers (especially t2 ones) then why are you taking part in discussion abt lasers in first place? Yes my geddon has around 50/50 chance VS mega (combat starts at 15-20k range) mostly dependant on mega bumping me (im dead) or mega missing me (i win). Originally by: Deva Blackfire Oh and 20% damage increase on EM = 10% total damage increase (using multi ammo with 50/50 EM/thermal split). I always like 10% more damage. Have you stopped to think that maybe 10% isn't all that much when it's boosting our damage per hit from something like 30 to 33 on T2 omni tanks? EM is still the single weakest damage type vs. armor, and armor is still the prevailing method of tanking in PvP. That hasn't and is not going to change. Recalculating it as a percentile just makes it seem big, it doesn't mean you're going to break tanks much easier in practice. If i do 33 not 30 damage then im doing 10% more. This means i DO break enemy tank faster. Unless your logic says "more damage = enemy tanks better". And btw - usual hits are quite larger than "30" damage. Originally by: Deva Blackfire As for capacitor problems - as soon as you drop them down blaster users will also cry for cap reduction. Except for some ships (zealot/absolution/abaddon) i can live with cap being sucked by guns. Oh yea - and zealot will have serious cap issues now :) Read: 25% more cap use ;p Why would blaster users cry for a cap reduction when even if lasers cap use were to be cut by 50% innately, blasters would still use less cap than lasers by ~10%, do much greater DPS, have better tracking and better damage types? All I'm proposing is we get our second ship bonus to make up for all the downsides to lasers. You mean downsides being better range? Actually blasters vs lasers are pretty ok balanced. Thing that breaks everything are autocannons with pretty good range (especially when most minnie ships still get faloff bonus), no cap use, good tracking. For RR BS gangs imo blasters are worst choice mostly because to crap range. Anyways: i know everyone would like ot get +50% damage on lasers and prolly no cap use. But not gonna happen. Post fix lasers will get enough boost to be back in line, zealot gets scary (imo 5th turret OR em resist reduction would suffice).
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.08 15:04:00 - [353] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Firmus Terra Edited by: Firmus Terra on 08/02/2008 12:38:56 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Start flying geddon maybe you will understand what i meant. Atm fight with blaster mega/blaster hype is 50/50 game. After changes it wont be sure victory but it will help quite a bit in this combat. Also it will help a LOT vs minnie armor tanks. You seriously think a 'Geddon has a 50% chance vs. a Megathron? I don't see how that's remotely possible, since they're both quite similar in style aside from the mega being slightly better in almost every aspect, but OK. I specialize in T2 cruisers personally so I wouldn't know. But then again I don't think anyone would because where are you going to get two people who are identically skilled in each respective ship with equal fittings to 1v1 each other? Then dont "assume" things. And dont guess. If you dont use lasers (especially t2 ones) then why are you taking part in discussion abt lasers in first place? Yes my geddon has around 50/50 chance VS mega (combat starts at 15-20k range) mostly dependant on mega bumping me (im dead) or mega missing me (i win). Originally by: Deva Blackfire Oh and 20% damage increase on EM = 10% total damage increase (using multi ammo with 50/50 EM/thermal split). I always like 10% more damage. Have you stopped to think that maybe 10% isn't all that much when it's boosting our damage per hit from something like 30 to 33 on T2 omni tanks? EM is still the single weakest damage type vs. armor, and armor is still the prevailing method of tanking in PvP. That hasn't and is not going to change. Recalculating it as a percentile just makes it seem big, it doesn't mean you're going to break tanks much easier in practice. If i do 33 not 30 damage then im doing 10% more. This means i DO break enemy tank faster. Unless your logic says "more damage = enemy tanks better". And btw - usual hits are quite larger than "30" damage. Originally by: Deva Blackfire As for capacitor problems - as soon as you drop them down blaster users will also cry for cap reduction. Except for some ships (zealot/absolution/abaddon) i can live with cap being sucked by guns. Oh yea - and zealot will have serious cap issues now :) Read: 25% more cap use ;p Why would blaster users cry for a cap reduction when even if lasers cap use were to be cut by 50% innately, blasters would still use less cap than lasers by ~10%, do much greater DPS, have better tracking and better damage types? All I'm proposing is we get our second ship bonus to make up for all the downsides to lasers. You mean downsides being better range? Actually blasters vs lasers are pretty ok balanced. Thing that breaks everything are autocannons with pretty good range (especially when most minnie ships still get faloff bonus), no cap use, good tracking. For RR BS gangs imo blasters are worst choice mostly because to crap range. Anyways: i know everyone would like ot get +50% damage on lasers and prolly no cap use. But not gonna happen. Post fix lasers will get enough boost to be back in line, zealot gets scary (imo 5th turret OR em resist reduction would suffice). Don tell me you don consider scorch to be a range advantage. 45 km range is far better than what AC with barrage get. So Amarr do have range advantage when they want to. On Mega vs Geddon. depends a lot on type of tanks/ drones etc a EANM+ DC + Explosive hardener against a geddon with Ogres II is a good bet for the Geddon. Same tank but besearkers and all goes better to mega. Change tank to 2 EANM and DC and the drone selection inverts and the lasers deal far less damage etc... Also if both are plated and with MWD ( then geddon need to drop web to fit boosters). The geddon might kite him long enough to take most proffit from the scorch. But then the lack of web makes harder to finish the fight. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.08 15:41:00 - [354] Quote: Don tell me you don consider scorch to be a range advantage. 45 km range is far better than what AC with barrage get. So Amarr do have range advantage when they want to. You have range advantage which you barely use. Most combats either happen at 150+km or 0-20km where multi is enough. I can count on fingers of my one hand situations when i absolutely NEEDED scorch to hit something (instead of chosing other closer target). If enemy needs to fight at under 20km it means he will close the gap to you - so you both fight at that distance. Quote: On Mega vs Geddon. depends a lot on type of tanks/ drones etc a EANM+ DC + Explosive hardener against a geddon with Ogres II is a good bet for the Geddon. Same tank but besearkers and all goes better to mega. Change tank to 2 EANM and DC and the drone selection inverts and the lasers deal far less damage etc... Yes yes, depends depends... blah blah. And most ppl fly "standarised" setups anyways. Either dualrep electrons or plated neutrons. You eat dualreps w/o any problem, with neutrons its classic 50/50. And yes i was including 2x eanm + DC fit on mega, not funny hardener setup (which gives like 5% more resists on 3 damages but lacks EM hardening + needs more slots to fit DC). Quote: Also if both are plated and with MWD ( then geddon need to drop web to fit boosters). The geddon might kite him long enough to take most proffit from the scorch. But then the lack of web makes harder to finish the fight. I hope you know that if you use scorch then you are either: 1. wasting damage you could deal with other ammo? (multi is perfect for 15-25km) 2. sitting out of scram range so he can warp?
Firmus Terra	Posted - 2008.02.09 00:23:00 - [355] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Then dont "assume" things. And dont guess. If you dont use lasers (especially t2 ones) then why are you taking part in discussion abt lasers in first place? Yes my geddon has around 50/50 chance VS mega (combat starts at 15-20k range) mostly dependant on mega bumping me (im dead) or mega missing me (i win). I said I specialize in T2 cruisers. Not cruise missiles. Cruiser sized ships of Amarr origin. I fly laser boats exclusively and my ex main flew blaster boats exclusively including the megathron. I would say you probably have a skill advantage over most megathron pilots if you're winning 50/50. It's really very hard tell how evenly matched they are in practice. Originally by: Deva Blackfire If i do 33 not 30 damage then im doing 10% more. This means i DO break enemy tank faster. Unless your logic says "more damage = enemy tanks better". And btw - usual hits are quite larger than "30" damage. It means you still break their tank slower than they break yours in more cases than not. I have around 5 mil sp invested into medium pulses. On a lot of T2 omni tanks I hit for an average of 30-40 damage, which is just pathetic. Having an extra 10% is nice, but it just means very slow killing becomes ever so slightly faster, it doesn't change the fact lasers still suck vs. Armor which is what most people use. Originally by: Deva Blackfire You mean downsides being better range? Actually blasters vs lasers are pretty ok balanced. Thing that breaks everything are autocannons with pretty good range (especially when most minnie ships still get faloff bonus), no cap use, good tracking. For RR BS gangs imo blasters are worst choice mostly because to crap range. Anyways: I know everyone would like ot get +50% damage on lasers and prolly no cap use. But not gonna happen. Post fix lasers will get enough boost to be back in line, zealot gets scary (imo 5th turret OR em resist reduction would suffice). Well one upside of medium range for four downsides sounds pretty fair I guess. Until someone MWD's towards you and locks you in blaster range with a web. I never asked for extra damage or less cap use. I'm asking for the capacitor use of lasers to be balanced innately so we can get our second ship bonus, which doesn't have to be a damage bonus at all. As it stands the cap reduction bonus is more of a nerf than a bonus, it may as well read "To have remotely balanced cap use which every other weapon system gets innately, get this skill to five." Not nice for newbies & people who haven't trained BS 5 yet. The Amarr complaint wasn't just about the Apoc and Zealot, and two crap ships aren't the only two reasons why our race is so badly underpopulated.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:33:00 - [356] Going to bump this, but current Beam Fitting requirements are overboard. I hope that the reacent boost to what was one of the worst pvp ships in game (the apoc) is not seen as a fully fix for Amarr. Apoc needs more grid and more CPU. Either that or reduce beam fittings.

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