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Malken
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.02 18:58:00 -
[1]
what do you think of the quality of service from CCP?
server troubles? GM's and their logs never showing anything?
are you happy with the quality of service? can it be improved?
what is your opinion? dont discuss specifics, just point on general problems and solutions pls.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:05:00 -
[2]
CCP's quality of service is an industry best.
Do they rise to the level that we would like them to be? Nope.
Could they possibly provide the level of support the players *think* they should provide and not go out of business/ruin the game? Nope.
In the end they do as well as they can which, despite player complaints, is still far better than you will find from any other MMO operator.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:07:00 -
[3]
Answers to your 6 questions: meh no who cares yes probably remove the reimbursement petition category
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:09:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn on 02/02/2008 19:10:47
I'm not particularly happy with the "THE LOGS, THEY SHOW NOTHING!" situation, but it's better than nothing, I guess.
If they're going to base ship reimbursement on server logs, they should try to get server logs that don't suck. I've never lost a ship myself that I thought merited reimbursement, but there's a thread or two about this almost every day, and even if it's just people whining, it doesn't exactly speak well of CCP for potential new players:
"Oh yeah, dude, EVE is great. Although if you're flying a ship that cost you half a billion ISK, and there's a lag wave or a node crashes, it might just blow up and be unrecoverable." ________________
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:14:00 -
[5]
The problem is that people only get the "the logs, they show nothing" part. The actual phrasing is (or should be) "the logs show nothing that does warrant reimbursement". Lag doesn't. Pilot error doesn't. Network troubles doesn't either. Server-side bugs do. But this is seldom the case.
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T Lag doesn't. Pilot error doesn't. Network troubles doesn't either.
Yeah, but that's a major part of the problem, in my opinion. Of course pilot error doesn't count, but players have almost no control over lag or network troubles. Since this is an MMO in which you don't respawn at all, losing an extremely expensive ship because a node got laggy or your ISP suddenly started acting up is a huge minus for EVE.
I agree that there needs to be reimbursement for losses caused by bugs, which is what we have now. However, lag is a part of MMO life, and the fact that people who lose ships due it are simply ****ed is something that could use fixing. ________________
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Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Malken what do you think of the quality of service from CCP?
server troubles? GM's and their logs never showing anything?
are you happy with the quality of service? can it be improved?
what is your opinion? dont discuss specifics, just point on general problems and solutions pls.
theyre lazy lately. Theyre staff doesnt seem to care about keeping existing players happy but more interested in making the new subscribers feel like they have a chance here.
I cant remember the last time their "logs" showed anything to warrant a ship replacement. Theyre incredibly good with the "copy and paste" customer service, as opposed to being human about it and servicing each case with the proper due diligence. _____________________
Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
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Eriol Hiiragizawa
Empyreal Paradox
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Since this is an MMO in which you don't respawn at all, losing an extremely expensive ship because a node got laggy or your ISP suddenly started acting up is a huge minus for EVE.
If you start loosing a fight, just pull your cable out, claim that your ISP jumped and you get your ship back.
If the reimbursement rules were relaxed even slightly, there would be barely any ships actually lost at all. -------------------- In Soviet HED, Gate camps YOU! |
Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Eriol Hiiragizawa If you start loosing a fight, just pull your cable out, claim that your ISP jumped and you get your ship back.
If the reimbursement rules were relaxed even slightly, there would be barely any ships actually lost at all.
I'm aware of this.
Nevertheless, the fact remains that people occasionally lose huge sums of money due to both server-side and client-side connection issues. The possibility of randomly losing a bunch of money does not work in the game's favor, since ISK doesn't grow on trees. ________________
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
Originally by: Malken what do you think of the quality of service from CCP?
server troubles? GM's and their logs never showing anything?
are you happy with the quality of service? can it be improved?
what is your opinion? dont discuss specifics, just point on general problems and solutions pls.
theyre lazy lately. Theyre staff doesnt seem to care about keeping existing players happy but more interested in making the new subscribers feel like they have a chance here.
I cant remember the last time their "logs" showed anything to warrant a ship replacement. Theyre incredibly good with the "copy and paste" customer service, as opposed to being human about it and servicing each case with the proper due diligence.
The last few petitions I have filed have been just this way, a copy/paste response. They introduced the review/rating system a while ago, but it doesnt seem as if they are using it. There are a few gms who still do their job properly, but for the most part you get a rude copy/paste reply.
Personally, I think that the gm ratings should be publicly viewable (keep the written reviews and names private ofc), so that gms who perform in an unacceptable manner can at least be avoided, and hopefully eventually replaced by more competent personnel.
A bigger eve Annndd..Player Factions |
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:46:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 02/02/2008 19:51:46
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Originally by: Akita T Lag doesn't. Pilot error doesn't. Network troubles doesn't either.
Yeah, but that's a major part of the problem, in my opinion. Of course pilot error doesn't count, but players have almost no control over lag or network troubles. Since this is an MMO in which you don't respawn at all, losing an extremely expensive ship because a node got laggy or your ISP suddenly started acting up is a huge minus for EVE.
I agree that there needs to be reimbursement for losses caused by bugs, which is what we have now. However, lag is a part of MMO life, and the fact that people who lose ships due it are simply ****ed is something that could use fixing.
Reimbursement for network trouble = I am losing the ship, let's cut power, so I get it reimbursed
for a lot of people.
Heard more than a few saying that or something very similar.
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Originally by: Eriol Hiiragizawa If you start loosing a fight, just pull your cable out, claim that your ISP jumped and you get your ship back.
If the reimbursement rules were relaxed even slightly, there would be barely any ships actually lost at all.
I'm aware of this.
Nevertheless, the fact remains that people occasionally lose huge sums of money due to both server-side and client-side connection issues. The possibility of randomly losing a bunch of money does not work in the game's favor, since ISK doesn't grow on trees.
Sorry but it matter a lot. if they were "human" about it and started reimbursing with ease the complayns will start to be 10 times mroe, as people will start: "but he was reimburse and I wasn't, favoritism for BOB, RED, Goonswar, Noobs, Veterans, whatever" and anyone that get refused would escalate and petition again untill he get a reimbursement simply wearing enough the GM.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog I cant remember the last time their "logs" showed anything to warrant a ship replacement.
Because it usually doesn't.
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Theyre incredibly good with the "copy and paste" customer service
And their customers incredibly good at flooding them with crap petitions.
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog , as opposed to being human about it and servicing each case with the proper due diligence.
I have yet to face a situation where I *SHOULD* have had to try and file a reimbursement petition.
Typical reimbursement petitions ? "I entered the mission, it lagged, I died" "They shot me, all froze, I woke up dead" "I tried to activate the gate but it wouldn't jump, and I died" "It disconnected me and when I got back in I was in my pod" "It froze, I had to reset, when I came back I was dead" A vast majority of them fall under one of these. NONE of them warrant reimbursement.
Petitions that DO warrant reimbursement ? "I clonejumped and all my implants got destroyed" "I was docked in <lowsec station> in my carier and next thing I know I'm in space on the other side of the universe near a 0.0 station" You know, stuff like THAT.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari SIVAKASI
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:02:00 -
[13]
I am happy so far and eveyrthing is all smooth and fine for me. I would say two thumsb up with the quailty of service.
It is not liek CCP is a Mickey mouse company. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Elles D
Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malken what do you think of the quality of service from CCP?
server troubles? GM's and their logs never showing anything?
are you happy with the quality of service? can it be improved?
what is your opinion? dont discuss specifics, just point on general problems and solutions pls.
I've been burned by GM's before on the whole buying ISK thing, i persued it and was eventually vindicated but the entire experience left me with a sour taste in-terms off what the GM's do.
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Malken
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
"I clonejumped and all my implants got destroyed"
actually i know of someone who has had that and got the "our logs doesnt show anything" reply
personally i think that CCP needs to stop autosending that line for everything as it only infuriates their customers more. perhaps actually look at the problem for a min or two before clicking it out from their que.
heres a question for CCP, is the GM's handling petitions payed by the amounts of petitions they click away from the que and consider done/over with?
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Orgos Khenn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:34:00 -
[16]
I'm happy with the service, that's why I'm still playing here. I notice this attitude is lacking amongst some other folks. ---- One day...one day General will be worth reading.
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cyberterror
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:44:00 -
[17]
I would simply say that these guys are doing what they can. just imagine all the maths behid this whole eve world, it's crazy!!!
now, one thing is sure despite the fact that I get stuck in jita once every 2 weeks, THEY CAN AND MUST IMPROVE!
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Orgos Khenn I'm happy with the service, that's why I'm still playing here. I notice this attitude is lacking amongst some other folks.
I've got 100 million ISK saying you'd feel differently if, six months down the road, you lost a Nightmare during a mission due to server lag. ________________
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Engineer Butters
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Posted - 2008.02.02 21:10:00 -
[19]
I just had a petition closed do to system saying I had not responded in 7 days to GM response. I find it strange that I had checked my petition every day to see if a response had been done and the time the icon finally glowed was the system response saying I had not responded in 7 days so petition was closed. I checked the petition to see a GM's response and it was dated 7 days prior. I asked if it had been back dated to close the petition and was told that GMs would not do that to avoid responses. Very strange
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Armoured C
Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.02.03 01:59:00 -
[20]
you can tell if a system is laggy before you even go into a mission just by the amount of pople in the local you have if you say a gallente mission ***** and you in dodixie there 200 people roughly in there most of the time. That already is telling you lag, when ever you join up to a 100 man fleet you know there going to be lag... all these thing you do which causes you to loose said ship through lag can be avoided OR you run the risk, ive lost ships in mission , ive lost ships in 0.0 and i just accept it, If un run the risk of playing through lag and you ship is lost then you cant do anything about it, just like when you undock from a station you automatically can be targeted for PVP weather you like it or not it happens
do what normal evolution does and adapt
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Orgos Khenn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.03 02:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I've got 100 million ISK saying you'd feel differently if, six months down the road, you lost a Nightmare during a mission due to server lag.
Tell you what - give me the 100 million ISK, I'll start saving for a Nightmare, and we'll see. If I do feel differently, I'll give you back double. :P ---- One day...one day General will be worth reading.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.03 03:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h CCP's quality of service is an industry best.
Do they rise to the level that we would like them to be? Nope.
Could they possibly provide the level of support the players *think* they should provide and not go out of business/ruin the game? Nope.
In the end they do as well as they can which, despite player complaints, is still far better than you will find from any other MMO operator.
I would agree that this pretty well sums it up.
I have had some issues where CCP has fracked up pretty bad, but if you press the matter in a reasonable manner they have (atleast in my cases) shown that they will fix the problem in proportion to the damage done.
It is not realistic to expect them to be perfect, but so far in my estimation they have better customer service than most companies, both among MMO's as well as other industries.
If you have had a problem with their customer service, I would suggest that you follow their chain of escalation. Whining on the forums accomplishes little to nothing.
As for their logs showing nothing, if you believe that the logs must show something to support your case, then press the matter. Their logs must show something. When they say that their logs show nothing, it means that they show nothing to justify a reimbursement.
If the grounds for your reimbursement is based only on client lag/desync, then you should expect nothing, as CCP has stated clearly that is not grounds for reimbursement. So even if their logs showed that there was lag, they could do nothing.
If your loss was due to a real defect in the game then press the matter until you recieve a sensable explaination.
I recently had an issue where the GM would not even acknowledge the history of the bug due to a documentation error on their end. I pressed the matter until I recieved a sensable explaination. Once CCP acknowledged that the fault was theirs, they were totally accomidating with regards to fixing it.
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.02.03 03:48:00 -
[23]
Consistency could be improved. When a group of players suffer the same problem and some get reimbursed while others don't it doesn't go over well.
So being able to group petitions would be very useful. And probably save the GMs a lot of time.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Kobushi
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Posted - 2008.02.03 05:31:00 -
[24]
yes CCP could increase there service by 10 time if they hire massively in there service department but are you ready to reduce every other department by the same margin to keep costs to same or pay 60$/month to pay for all the extra wage?
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Uzuness
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Posted - 2008.02.03 05:38:00 -
[25]
So far, so good.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.02.03 05:49:00 -
[26]
The problem is, as someone else stated that CCP only reimburse if you give them enough information, usually the killmail (now Death Log, intact with the timestamp) a good description of where this was happening and when it happened (i.e, when you got the first signs that things simply were not right).
And Finally - Acceptance that GM's Do the best any human with their job could do
Oh and also, i would love to see you write out 400 petitions in say, half a days timeframe, without copy/pasting some of the reply, (remembering how many impatient kids escalate/petition to no end). It doesnt mean they dont check. and also, its not "our logs show nothing" its "our logs don't show a server error was the cause for your downfall, sorry"
Welcome to EvE |
Sarah Lopez
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Posted - 2008.02.03 11:32:00 -
[27]
Hi,
this is a MMPORG and its designed to play without the help of GM's. If you lose a ship by lag blackscreen or whatever.. thats life.. thats the game.. "Ships lost due to lag or non-server related disconnection will not be reimbursed." (http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/reimbursment.asp)
My experiences are very good when I wrote a petition and only because some whiners did not get their ships back we should not let them ruin the reputation of EVE as the best MMO.
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Bimjo
Caldari SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.02.03 11:37:00 -
[28]
they are good, but can be better And they do have a heart, recently a friend of mine lost an expensive ship/fittings due to disconnection and they reimbursed him even though there was not enough proof, because they realised he was in a situation that was practically impossible to lose a ship in, unless asleep (easy L4 mission) ======================== XXX |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.02.03 11:55:00 -
[29]
In every mmo ive ever played, in 10 years of playing mmos and reading their official forums people complain about the service, they complain about the gms, about the developers, about lag, about connection issues, about downtime, about everything.
The only two options are;
1. Every game ever made is horrible and supported wrong 2. People who post on internet forums are unreasonable and don't actually know what they are talking about.
Ive always known those there video games where no good. All video games suck.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.02.03 12:05:00 -
[30]
I've had no cause for complaint so far tbh.
The two reimbursement petitions I did file (which I thought were for pretty fair reasons tbh) I got the ship back.
Generally I get a response back within a reasonable timeframe (i.e. stuck petitions very quickly, less urgent stuff less so). EVE RELATED CONTENT |
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