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New Frontiers Mission (lvl 3) is very hard

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Author	Topic
Keyn Thror	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:41:00 - [1] Hello! I have just lost an Abaddon Battleship on a [LEVEL 3] Mission - New Frontiers - Stage 5... It seems that this mission is a bit imblanaced for lvl 3 mission... I recieved loads of damage and couldn't warp out because of several warp scrambler rogue drones. I tanked with the right armor hardeners against main enemies damage type, had Tech 2 Large Armor Repairer running non-stop all the time (though energy neutralizer towers cause lots of trouble with my capacitor), used drones to destroy small enemies but still lost my ship... 5 energy neutralizer towers + lots of warp scrmabling drones... And the damage is enough to destroy the heavily tanked battleship, that survived most lvl 4 missions... Isn't it too much for a lvl 3 mission, that is supposed to be done with a Battlecruiser at most? Dear CCP, if you could, please rebalance this mission. It's nearly impossible to be done. I'd also ask GMs to refund the loss of my battleship and equipment, I didn't expect to get that damage and warp scramble on a level 3 mission, to be honest. I wrote a petition with nearly the same text as above, and soon got this answer from GM Dionysus: Quote: Hi, Thank you very much for your suggestion. As we in the GM team have no direct ties to the Development team, I suggest that you post about this idea and any other ideas you might have for optimizing and improving the game in the Features and Ideas Discussion section of our official forums. The Dev team regularly reads it and takes feedback into consideration while working their hardest to improve the game. Here is a direct link to the section: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channelchannelID3523 Best regards, GM Dionysus EVE Online Customer Support So I posted here, because I consider the difficulty level of this mission a serious issue. Please, let me know if GMs can help me to recover from the loss of my ship on this imbalanced mission, that would be much appreciated. Thank you again.
Ofca	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:54:00 - [2] Do you want some cheese with your whine? Several (two) warp-scrambling frigates too hard for you? Maybe try L1 missions ;) Grats to the guy/gal that made this chain. It was really interesting first two times :)
Keyn Thror	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:31:00 - [3] Thank you for your very helpful answer! First: I don't whine, I just see some disbalance in the gameplay and report about it. Second: I've been doing lvl 4 missions on the same ship for a long time, and it has never been that hard as on this level 3 mission. Third: There should be a "difficulty curve" in the gameplay, as it was before Trinity (in which this mission chain was added, I think), so most lvl 3 missions should be balanced to be done with Cruiser/Battlecruiser class ships and much less skills than I have. So, if there is enough damage per second and additional effects (web + scramble + energy neutralize)to destroy lvl-4-tanked Battleship, I suppose this mission is imbalanced and needs to be fixed. Or just moved to lvl 4 missions pool, with according rewards. If I knew this is a lvl 4 mission, I would have brought additional resources to complete it and would be much more careful in the beginning of the combat. But since I knew it was lvl 3 - I thought that one battleship is more than enough to complete it without any serious problems.
Ofca	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:41:00 - [4] You've done L4 missions and didn't notice you were scrambled? Why don't I believe you? You've done L4 missions and didn't do any research before going on a mission? When I've done it more than a month ago, it was hard to find info about this chain in usual databases. It isn't today, so what's your excuse? You've done L4 missions and now you're doing L3s? What kind of curve is that? ;)
Prokonsul Piotrus Minmatar Astral Light of Nature	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:54:00 - [5] Shouldn't this be in the mission forum? Yes, this is a hard mission; drones dealt more damage to me than I received from any lv4 mission. Be careful. The game would be no fun if all missions were cakewalks :) -- One day, we will return to the planets... please, CCP? :) EVE-Wiki - share your knowledge in one place.
Keyn Thror	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:55:00 - [6] 1. Yes, I have noticed that I am scrambled, but my armor was already damaged heavily, and I didn't have time to kill all scramblers before my ship blew up. 2. Yes, I have done some research on this mission, and saw people's comments about doing it in Nightmare or Nighthawk, it doesn't really state the missions difficulty. Just something to be compared with. 3. The reason I switched from lvl 4 to lvl 3 missions is quite simple - I am working for higher standings with another NPC corporation, nothing more. 4. Who are you to question me, as if I am guilty? I wrote my suggestions to CCP game masters and asked them to respond to my request. Please, save your time and use it for something else, than flooding in this topic. Thank you again, and good luck to you!
Keyn Thror	Posted - 2008.02.03 00:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Prokonsul Piotrus Shouldn't this be in the mission forum? Yes, this is a hard mission; drones dealt more damage to me than I received from any lv4 mission. Be careful. The game would be no fun if all missions were cakewalks :) Perhaps it should be in a mission forum, you are right, but I hoped to get some response from developers on this problem, so I posted here first. I absolutely agree, that missions should give a player some challenge, but if they are divided into "levels", so all missions of similar "level" should be more or less equal in difficulty. That's why I think the best solution ot this problem will be moving this mission to lvl 4 missions pool, with according rewards, because right now the troubles this mission causes don't worth the reward it gives (about 1 million ISK including time bonus reward).
Ofca	Posted - 2008.02.03 00:35:00 - [8] If you didn't want responses, why then you posted in public forums? Or maybe you just wanted "You're right! We love you! CCP give him his ship back and fix0r the level yesterday!" responses, and not the others? ;) You are guilty of whining after losing your ship fair and square. I did this mission 4 times in a raven - lost it once because I didn't know what to expect. If this L3 mission is too hard for you, maybe L2s will be better suited for someone of your caliber? PS. You can skip this chain as a whole without any standing loss. PS2. Lets make this mission an L5, because it may prove too hard for someone doing L4s, apparently.
Ikasu Gallente The Durandal Organization	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Ofca If you didn't want responses, why then you posted in public forums? Or maybe you just wanted "You're right! We love you! CCP give him his ship back and fix0r the level yesterday!" responses, and not the others? ;) You are guilty of whining after losing your ship fair and square. I did this mission 4 times in a raven - lost it once because I didn't know what to expect. If this L3 mission is too hard for you, maybe L2s will be better suited for someone of your caliber? PS. You can skip this chain as a whole without any standing loss. PS2. Lets make this mission an L5, because it may prove too hard for someone doing L4s, apparently. You just happen to be a very hateful person don't you? I agree this seems like the wrong forum, it's not necessary a bug or issue, but it does sound imbalanced. ------------------------------------------------- Attention Devs, for every isk you send me one member of your family will be returned safely.
ThaDollaGenerale The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Keyn Thror T Third: There should be a "difficulty curve" in the gameplay, as it was before Trinity (in which this mission chain was added, I think), so most lvl 3 missions should be balanced to be done with Cruiser/Battlecruiser class ships and much less skills than I have. Most missions already do have a difficulty curve, your argument is baseless.

Keyn Thror	Posted - 2008.02.03 11:36:00 - [11] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Most missions already do have a difficulty curve, your argument is baseless. That's what I'm talking about, actually. Most missions already have a difficulty curve, but this one goes too far from all other lvl 3 missions. That's all. As for what Ofca says - I posted in public forums to attract developers attention, and may be hear some reasonable people's advices. Right now I heard what I expected to hear - this mission is REALLY hard, so it's not my imagination or mistake. Ofca lost a Raven first time, Prokonsul Piotrus says he got more damage than on any lvl 4 mission. I bet there are other people who had the same problem with New Frontiers... If CCP developers read this forum, may be they will consider rebalancing this mission - that would be very good. Thank you all for the discussion in this topic, it helps to keep it up on the board :)
evilminge	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:46:00 - [12] forum smackers with nothing better to do than trawl and flame. slowly making these boards a pointless place to make posts. thanks for bringing this up i currently run lvl 3 missions and havn't had the pleasue of this one, so mebe you have just saved me a hurricane .
Ofca	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:53:00 - [13] This chain was great. It probably was most exciting L3 mission I've done. It is hard. All missions should be as challenging as this one. I'm not a hateful person - I'm just defending my right to have fun. And for the record, my whole reaction is based on your "give me my ship back" and nothing more. This mission IS difficult and there is no reason to dispute this fact. Was your loss avoidable? By all means. Did it happen for fault of anyone other than you? No. Bzzt, sorry, no bonus. And no refund. :) Funny thing is: My friend got this chain, I warned him about both cap-sucking towers and scrambling ships, yet he managed to lose his ship also. - "Because when it said I was scrambled, I didn't know what to shoot" - "did you look for ship shooting at you with blue ray?" - "yes, but I didn't see any" - "erm, you ofc zoomed in a bit, right?" - "oh, was I supposed to zoom in???" Doh. Well, at least he managed to shoot down 4 towers first ;)
Gadawan	Posted - 2008.02.03 20:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Ofca Edited by: Ofca on 02/02/2008 22:55:53 Do you want some cheese with your whine? Most over used phrase ever. Makes you look like an idiot and contributes nothing. Should be bannable tbh.
Ofca	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:04:00 - [15] Yeah, and "gimme my ship back" (in tech forum) contributes so many levels of contribution more. Anyone else in the thread wants to decide something about the game? More bannable offences or any mission difficulty level upgrades/downgrades? ;)
Keyn Thror	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Ofca Did it happen for fault of anyone other than you? No. Bzzt, sorry, no bonus. And no refund. :) I just don't understand, Ofca... Did I ask YOU to refund me my lost ship? You take it too personally I think... Relax, I was asking (not _demanding_, by the way, just asking) Developers, not you. :)
Gadawan	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:13:00 - [17] Originally by: Ofca Yeah, and "gimme my ship back" (in tech forum) contributes so many levels of contribution more. Anyone else in the thread wants to decide something about the game? More bannable offences or any mission difficulty level upgrades/downgrades? ;) smiley smiley Hello, I have no clue what this topic was about, just decided to spam it with clishTs. smiley
Ofca	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:15:00 - [18] Glad you figured it out by yourself.
Keyn Thror	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Ofca Anyone else in the thread wants to decide something about the game? We are here not to decide anything about this game, we're not a developers. I see some strange things, and I report to developers about them, because I think it's important for them - to keep everything balanced. EVE is a very balanced game, and that's why I like it so much. I work in game-development industry myself, and I know how hard is to keep that balance, especially in MMO games. That's why I think such issues should be at least considered to be rebalanced. As for the loss of my ship - as I already said - I just asked, not demanded anything. If it works - very good, thanks to GMs and CCP. If not - still thanks because I learned something useful from that loss...
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.04 12:18:00 - [20] Reading the mission guide on eve-survival.org it does sound pretty brutal. Thanks for the heads up on this one, I think I'll get my drone skills higher before taking this one on.

Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.04 16:14:00 - [21] Web + scramble + neut sounds pretty high for a lvl 3 mission! I thought there was no other neutralizer towers than in the level 5... Or the blood raiders NOS cruisers and BS (so only level 4 for the BS or maybe a storyline level 3?)... Anyway, I wouldn't have thought about running level 3 missions in a battleships, it never helps kicking all the small ships that are around. And for the pocket not being tanked by a dual repairer abaddon, sounds like high damage output from the drones! PS : is it a storyline or not? -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.05 04:57:00 - [22] I just ran the 2nd part of this mission and those neut towers are insane! Even with just 2 of them I was down to half cap in less than a minute. Luckily my Drake doesn't really need cap except for active hardeners, but even so. The 5th part apparently has 4-5 heavy neut towers with 110km range if eve-survival.org is anything to go by,
Koraeth	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:32:00 - [23] Done this series of missions twice with my abaddon, love it. First thing to do is nail those towers on jump in. This series of missions is the only time I've fitted 2 Smartbombs to my ship, to clear out all the little close range ships, works great. If the towers are draining your cap too fast, are you built out right? I've got 3 ccc risgs, 3 cap recharger 2's in mids, and 2 cap relays in low slots. Makes for a ton of recharge capability. Dunno. Personally I love this series of missions, pays good, lots of salvage amongst all those ships, and the crystal loot does add up at the end
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.06 09:54:00 - [24] Did up to part 6 of this mission last night and to echo what the OP has said I think this is too hard for a level 3 mission, but that's just me. I don't have a build that's specifically designed to maintain cap because my ship is passively shield tanked so doesn't really need it, that being said I was on zero cap in part 5 of this mission in less than a minute from warp-in. The 5 heavy neut towers must've been taking about 1/6th of my cap on every activation cycle. Added to which the damage from the ridiculous number of drones had me running on 50% shield for most of the mission. Bear in mind this is on a ship which is well specced (3 x purger rigged Drake with 3 LSE IIs) which has little problem running level 4 missions as a co-pilot (haven't tried it solo yet). The other mistake I made was going with EM damage missiles. Whilst they seem to be better than kinetic (despite the Drake battlecruiser bonus) they did hardly any damage to the armour of the neut towers. I ended up having to warp out on zero cap, refill it by docking, and warping back into the mission zone by which time of course the drones that form part of the mission had spawned. A pretty brutal mission and probably the hardest level 3 mission (I've run Angel Extravaganza level 3 too), I wouldn't recommend it to any player who isn't 100% confident of their skills, and particularly not to an active tanked setup.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:32:00 - [25] I dont think its too hard, kill the neut towers first, then the scrambling drones. Did this mission 2 times already, once in my Sacrilege and once with an active tanked drake. never had any problems, the neut towers goes pop before my cap even reach 50%.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:34:00 - [26] What missiles were you using in the Drake out of interest?
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Koraeth Done this series of missions twice with my abaddon, love it. First thing to do is nail those towers on jump in. This series of missions is the only time I've fitted 2 Smartbombs to my ship, to clear out all the little close range ships, works great. If the towers are draining your cap too fast, are you built out right? I've got 3 ccc risgs, 3 cap recharger 2's in mids, and 2 cap relays in low slots. Makes for a ton of recharge capability. Dunno. Personally I love this series of missions, pays good, lots of salvage amongst all those ships, and the crystal loot does add up at the end Here I see people saying it is doable with a tier 3 BS or a fully passive drake (people solo lvl 4 with such ships), well, all I can say is that it's a level 4 mission... Just moving it to level 4 would avoid peopl entering in the mission with a cruiser or a battlecuiser (appart from fully passive shields) and get popped. Neutralizer towers are the perfect T2 ship killer, it is the thing that makes using an HAS instead of a cruiser close to useless. It seems really level 4 difficulty and then should be moved up. If someone finishes this one with a vexor without tons of war outs, tell me, All the other level 3 missions worked with my vexor. For the more trapped missions (webifiers on pocket entrance in numbers), I used a myrmidon for the tank... I can't see how efficient will be a myrmidon or a vexor in such mission... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:38:00 - [28] It does feel like a level 4 mission to be honest. There's only 1 BS in the mission but there's enough drones to make up for it - I took more damage running this mission than any other level 3 I've done, not to mention that I was running on near zero cap for much of it (I did primary the neut towers but 5 of them all sapping constantly still meant I had no cap by the time they were all down). Then you've got the several webbing/scramming drones as well, it's not like you can even escape from the carnage. There isn't anything wrong with the mission persay, only that it feels like it should be a level 4 mission - not a level 3 one.
Visko Altertunity	Posted - 2008.02.11 20:31:00 - [29] This mission is ridiculously hard.. I'm not as experienced as all of you I've only been playing about 2 weeks or so.. I still play on my own so I don't get any tips or advice or help or anything so... The little bit I did get recommended were that lvl1s are difficulty for Frigates, 2 for Destroyers, 3 for Cruisers... So.. I'm flying a cruiser and I'm doing lvl3 missions, And I'm Caldari. Thing is most lvl2's and 3's I can do no problem. I don't come close to getting destroyed but this New Frontiers mission has shocked me. I accept it thinking it'll be like the rest. Each stage has been difficult. But I spend more than 3-4 hours trying to complete the single mission because I'm forced to warp in and out about 30 or so times before it's actually done. And constantly reconfigure my ship to take on different tasks I aim to complete each time I warp back in... No other mission requires this much effort. I've lost 4 cruisers trying to complete this series for the first time and I'm only on step 4.. from reading this, I'm gonna give the middle finger to step 5 and just call it quits for this agent. Maybe come back when I can afford a battleship.
Weles Paene	Posted - 2008.02.12 10:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Visko Altertunity Edited by: Visko Altertunity on 11/02/2008 21:02:12 Edited by: Visko Altertunity on 11/02/2008 21:01:12 This mission is ridiculously hard.. I'm not as experienced as all of you I've only been playing about 2 weeks or so.. I still play on my own so I don't get any tips or advice or help or anything so... The little bit I did get recommended were that lvl1s are difficulty for Frigates, 2 for Destroyers, 3 for Cruisers... So.. I'm flying a cruiser and I'm doing lvl3 missions, And I'm Caldari. Thing is most lvl2's and 3's I can do no problem. I don't come close to getting destroyed but this New Frontiers mission has shocked me. I accept it thinking it'll be like the rest. Each stage has been difficult. But I spend more than 3-4 hours trying to complete the single mission because I'm forced to warp in and out about 30 or so times before it's actually done. And constantly reconfigure my ship to take on different tasks I aim to complete each time I warp back in... No other mission requires this much effort. I've lost 4 cruisers trying to complete this series for the first time and I'm only on step 4.. from reading this, I'm gonna give the middle finger to step 5 and just call it quits for this agent. Maybe come back when I can afford a battleship. MIND YOU, in the designers defense it DOES suggest you bring multiple partners to aid you on the 5th part of the series. So... it's not necessarily designed to be completed Solo by the looks of it. I was always under the assumption that cruisers were ideal for lvl 2's and battlecruisers fit best with lvl 3's. Go get a BC and avoid this mission until you've got a little more experience and a well-fitted ship. Happiness is a warm gun, Mawma!

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