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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.08 20:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Goumindong on 08/02/2008 20:28:47 Double post
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.08 20:27:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 05/02/2008 22:39:38 That Plated-Neutron Megathron setup posted is a terrible fit and makes it seem on par to the Tempest. Use best named web/disruptor/damage control, drop a Mag Stab/Adaptive and fit 2 EANM IIs. It has far far more HP that the Tempest could possibly hope to achieve.
Not really, no. I am away from my machine atm, but both the thron and pest are going to be hovering around 120-125k EHP with a 4 slot tank with 2 eanms
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.10 05:58:00 -
[3]
The tempest has 5 med slots. In the same passive plated setup that everyone else has it needs 3 since it isnt using cap to fire its guns. This means either 2 webs, or two tracking disruptors.
That will be a pretty damn strong combination against anyone, getting very close to laser ships, while making them track terribly, and staying at a longer range against blaster boats while lowering their range even farhter.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.10 19:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Active tanked
Nah, you can likely still break it. Especially since that will be cap charge dependant.
The 2 web version will not have to run its MWD and will be able to keep the range of the hyp or mega or domi way under its opt+falloff.
Against Amarr it means closing and then either orbiting at close range, or loading high damage ammo
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.10 22:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Trust me, i've shot (BS 5, full t2 fit) at dual rep Megas using hail at point blank (with 1 gyro and t2 drones) and it had to run out of cap boosters to kill it (dual rep, 3x active, dc, mfs + rep rigs).
As soon as theres a second hostile all these clever tricks don't help as well as more damage to kill sooner or a better tank to tank the extra damage, especially when your agility/speed IS NOT a real advantage at BS level. Thats what I think most minamtar want, a true minmatar style BS rather than the weaker damage/tank variations of other races.
Eh, you cant win em all, maybe he just had the right combo of hardeners and you had the wrong ammo? But how can you have "a true minmitar style BS" without obsoleting the smaller ships in the game?
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
As you say elsewhere, overloading (heat) favours the people who want to get closer than those who want to control range due to the 10 second cycle time of mwd and having to wait for the next cycle for your overload to activate. So 15m/s over other races base (150m/s with mwd over a mega, neither with plates/rigs) isn't much of an advantage when you have the same mass and heat favours the ship wanting to get closer.
It is when the pest is going to have 2 webs, or 2 tracking disruptors.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 20:19:00 -
[7]
No, there are ways, you just dont want to use those ways.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 23:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Originally by: Goumindong No, there are ways, you just dont want to use those ways.
The same ways exist for ships that rely on optimal. They just also have a tracking computer and tracking enhancers. But we all know that ACs are overpowered as is, they need ewar that affects them more than the poor weapons that rely on optimal. Now could we please get back to the topic of the thread, which was how the Tempest is the best battleship of them all and does need a nerf?
If you think that falloff and optimal rigs are reasonable options for blaster or laser ships you must have never flown or fit one ever, not even in EFT.
The difference between an ion blaster an neutron blaster is:
~7% DPS 20% optimal range 25% falloff
The difference between a Heavy Pulse laser or a Focused Medium Pulse laser is
15.6% dps 20% optimal range 25% falloff
The difference between a 425mm AC and a 220mm AC is
~5% dps irrelevent optimal range 0% falloff
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
PS: This is not a TC/TE thread. Go troll in the appropriate thread please.
Dont bring it up if you dont want to discuss it.
The 5 meds on the tempest are important to its balance. Agility is probably a decent idea.
Quote:
PPS: Don't forget the fact that the largest tier Minmatar AC per size does less DPS than the smallest tier Laser or Blaster in the same size category Goumindong. That might have some reason why Minmatar guns are easier to fit. Words bolded for effect.
Oh hey, arent you just a peachy little ball of mis-information today. Put the damage in context and it changes significantly.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Yea. Minmatar ships with dual-damage (or single-damage) bonuses fitting their highest DPS guns do the same DPS as single-damage + tank bonus Amarr/Gallente ships fitting their lowest guns;
With no damage bonus, loading long range ammo: base damage bonuses of 425 ACs, electron blasters, and focused medium Pulses
Electron: 34 FMP: 29 425mm: 30
Damage modification against standard amarr racial armor tank due to damage types[disadvantaging Minmitar more than usual] with no plates and an eanm/eanm/dc fitting[a relativly weak tank]
Electron: Base FMP: - about 12% 425: -2%
Quote: Unfortunately for the Tempest/Typhoon/Vaga/Cane/Sleipnir/etc, fitting the largest Autocannons requires fitting mods if the rest of the fit is to be standard, so you actually have to down-grade your guns
You can fit an mwd, 2 1600rts, 6 800mm ACs, 2 siege launcher IIs and as many 1 PG mods as you want on a tempest without any fitting mods with AWU 4
You can fit a MWD, xl-booster II, 7 425 ACs, and 2 falloff mods with AWU 4 and rigging 5.
You cant fit the phoon with 800mm ACs but hey you can fit 650s and 4 siege launchers with 2 plates an a t2 MWD at AWU 4.
You can fit a Cane with 6 425 ACs, 2 assault launchers, an MWD and a god damn 1600rt plate with AWU 4.[that is 704 DPS with 53k EHP before rigs with 2 damage mods and hail]
You have got to be ******* kidding me.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Now look at the DPS with AM/Multi/EMP in that comparison. Try a tri-hardened tank instead of EANMs.
Since the AC user will be using Hail and not EMP if they are smart they gain about 1.3% but lose tracking in said situation.
No sense comparing un-opimized tanks. Optimized tanks fit plates, extenders and omni tanking modules.
Nothing wrong with plating minmitar ships.
Neuts are far less valuable than more DPS usually is.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Goumindong on 13/02/2008 01:46:23 12 seconds is way way way to fast. An unplated Harbinger alligns in 11.4 second. Plated its 13.8 seconds.
Try 14.5 second allign at the lowest.
ed: Nice dodge of the issue when someone proves you wrong.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:36:00 -
[13]
Well then how in the world are you failing to fit these mods when such fits with powergrid intensive mods seem to fit just fine?
Just what uber builds are so powergrid intensive that you cant fit them?
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:58:00 -
[14]
No really, what are the fits?
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 16:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Also while we're at it, Typhoon/Huginn/Bellicose should get +1 Missile/+1 Turret slot.
The Phoon, Huginn, and Bellicose are fine
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.14 15:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Goumindong on 14/02/2008 15:56:35
Originally by: Ariel Dawn The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc.
This is false, the bellicose can be fit to be used just fine. Its very similar to a stabber, a tad bit slower, but more DPS and more non-tracking based DPS[it can also run a huge buffer tank with 2 LSEs, or a perma-MWD setup at 2.5-3km/s]
Its about as strong as the Arbitrator, about the same DPS but its a lot faster. Trades that for the versatility of the Arbis drone bay and ewar.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.14 18:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Goumindong on 14/02/2008 18:04:32 Eh, not my fault if you wont see its advantages.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.14 19:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vanessa Vale
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ariel Dawn The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc.
There is nothing really wrong with the bellicose as goumindong says. Its more that stabber and rupture are so good that no one cares much for the bellicose.
Ah, the stabber is SO good that I have a rigged one gathering dust for months now. Why would you ever think of flying one with heat all around and no falloff bonuses?
That leaves the rupture as the only viable cruiser flying.
The stabber and the rupture are different types of ships. But stabbers are excellent heavy tacklers. They are essentially super-frigates. Bellicoses are similar, but either perma run the mwd or have a really huge buffer for tackling.
That you don't have a use for them doesn't mean that others don't have a use for them.
Stabbers are cheap vagabonds and Bellicoses slightly different Stabbers. Yea, vagabonds are better, but they also require more skills, cost a whole bunch more, and are the "super-specialized" version of the ship.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.15 04:40:00 -
[19]
Range dictation.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.15 15:59:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Goumindong on 15/02/2008 16:01:13
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation.
How do you dictate range even in 1BS-vs-1BS in a Tempest now that overloading is available? Keep your MWD always overloaded and hope it won't blow up before the fight is over?
And of course, against any gang that includes at least one cruiser or smaller with a webber... Forget it.
No, play keep away with unoverloaded MWD and then overload your web and activate it as soon as he hits 13km. Fly manually and orbit at about 9.5km if you get him slow enough. As he bursts his mwd, keep bursting yours.
He will probably close eventually, but its unlikely he will do so before you have done enough damage to bring him down.
If you get caught, switch to hail and start ganking.
Oh, and shoot the cruiser/frigate first. If that means the mega gets close enough, overload your mwd and burn away with the TD on him. With the TD you don't need to keep him out of web range, just out of short web range.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.16 22:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Mega is hideously slow and Tempest is good deal quicker? Read this post and say that again.
Damage at 30km? little over 50% with barrage... 250 dps from turrets if lucky. Mega damage at 30km, little over 25% with null... 175 dps from turrets, at lower range the better it is for the Mega, nevermind with drones. Yeah... such an extreme advantage.
Only if you dont figure damage types.
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