EVE Search - Any Minmatar Love?

Search EVE-Online forums for:

All Channels

Game Development Forum

Any Minmatar Love?

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page

Author	Topic
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:02:00 - [31] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Eleana Tomelac The best to see the effect of more falloff is to draw a graph considering the falloff bonus. Because what is 10% to falloff? it is pushing 10% further the distance where you will make 50% hits, at least for autocannons that have a non-existent optimal. So, the falloff should never be allowed to be improved? I think people fighting in their falloff are quite courageaous, because when you are in falloff, you will never have the 'EFT DPS'. So, comparing pure DPS and not DPS graphs is totally crap! I have an excel file there that makes graphs, just be careful that is is not properly configured for torpedoes and not properly configured on AS (because it was for a post about boosting AF) and some other ship and weapon misconfigurations may happen. Open it with excel and turn off the automatic calculations in the options. Then reconfigure, choose ships and weapons and have nice graphs! Its also crap to not take tracking into account when comparing ACs to pulses while calculating dps... Yeah, I learned to be careful about EFT DPS, it makes all amarr ship look crap while when I use them, I keep at my optimal for 0% miss as much as I can while AC and blaster setups throws amunition everywhere and may not do the intended DPS. There is a real strenght in the mid range combat used by amarr ships, and I like it. So, DPS graphs including tracking (you can configure it in the excel file) are useful. PS : I added the link in my previous post, forgot it before! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Maraleith The Culture Holding Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:32:00 - [32] The current predicament of the Minnie bs is all down to the desire to make all ships the same. Tell me honestly, when did you last see an autopest in a gang? Be honest now, as an FC, when someone says, "I'm bringing an autopest". How many say change for a Vagabond or a Scorpion? Why is that??? The criminal act was nerfing its alpha. Now the pest is outdamaged by the megathron up close, just about out ranged by the T2 sniperthron and the new Amarr battleship, easily jammed by a Blackbird, horribly vulnerable to sensor dampening and out-tanked by virtually everyone else at close or long range. The wombats that call themselves game developers did this in the full knowledge of what they wanted. They nerfed range -20% to Tremor. They nerfed artillery alpha strike; so what's left? Speed, that got nerfed. Minnie bs and the Tempest in particular have lost their place as front line battleships in fleets. Any doubts - explain why sniper fleets are now dominated by Megathrons. Tell me what happened to Tempest dominated fleets? Solution: WHINE and WAIT - IT WORKED FOR AMARR! Typhoon - what a great idea that was? Everyone knows its useless. So change it! But the arrogance of CCP refuses to acknowledge the LONG term minnie problem with this ship. Let's make it an alternative to the Dominix - torpedo spewing droneboat with a great armour tank. Adjust the DPS with a change in one bonus to drone damage and then balance out the dps. But I fear this cannot be done as it would be an admission that for YEARS CCP had the concept for this ship wrong. Tempest - utility gunboat - give it a tank - take away one non-turret high slot and give it two mid slots - do not change bonuses. Then all of a sudden people will go Hmm. Not very hard to do. And guess what? It is now a shield tanker, what it was allways meant to be looking at the Vargur - RIGHT? Malestrom - Pure Gunboat. Change this pile of dung. Give its sensors a range boost as its a tier three ship, so I don't need three sensor boosters to do what everyone else does with two. Make it the most agile and fastest battleship in the game by a decent margin. So it can either be used in sniper or autopest mode. And no; not a speed buff by 10% but by 20%. Then watch how many get used everywhere as skill points, skill as a pilot and teamwork determine best how to use this ship. No need to change dps as skills and rigs and fitouts will take care of the rest. REVERSE the ill-conceived nerfing of Tremor T2 range and alpha strike. We won't comment on the tremendous advantage an inherent range bonus gives to other races sniping ships because that would just highlight the stupidity of nerfing Minnie artillery in the first place. "Oh, you can one shot a cruiser" people cry. Yes but it takes a lot of skills and a pure gank fitout to do it and now the cruiser can be set up with rigs to tank an alpha critical hit. And I haven't even mentioned the SISI armor nerf for minnie ships which will make armor tanking really easy - NOT. But that's all right because I just need to train up my skills twice as high to do half as much. Lastly - The module that shall not be named needs a MASSIVE buff to counter the wondrous proposed tracking disruptor. Of course Minnie ewar - benefits missile ships the most as that's logical and makes sense! I would love to see an alternative to the terrific target painter but CCP wouldn't listen to any suggestion. For example, if I could fit a chaff launcher which has a % chance to decoy away missiles and lower my signature (thereby reducing damage opportunity) then that could interesting. Bellicose chaff spewing target painting boats anyone? Am I happy about the current state of Minnie BS - No. Why? Because CCP's repeated tinkering is taking away Eve's uniqueness. Soon, all the children in the sandbox will be the same and only then will CCP realise that that's no fun. All in the desire for a "fairer" game. If I wanted fairness I would play WoW!
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:49:00 - [33] Proposed tempest setups. Bonuses: 7.5% ROF bonus, 10% bonus to fall off of Large Projectile Turrets Grid/CPU changed to fit the following. 6x 800mm Repeating Artillery II 2x Heavy Unstable Power Drain 100mn MWD II Heavy Cap Injector II Fleeting Web Sensor booster II Tracking Computer II (with 30% fall off ambit extension script) 2x 1600 Rolled Tungsten Plate 2x EANM II Gyrostabliser II Damage Control II 2x Ambit Extension I Rigs (now become stacking penalised) Trimark Armor Rig 75m3 Drone Bay 3x Bouncer II's With barrage, it would deal less than 600 dps +bouncers, 250-300 dps at 80km (optimal + fall off) with 800mm tracking is certainly different. Maybe even useful - Discuss.
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Maraleith Typhoon - what a great idea that was? Everyone knows its useless. So change it! But the arrogance of CCP refuses to acknowledge the LONG term minnie problem with this ship. Let's make it an alternative to the Dominix - torpedo spewing droneboat with a great armour tank. Adjust the DPS with a change in one bonus to drone damage and then balance out the dps. But I fear this cannot be done as it would be an admission that for YEARS CCP had the concept for this ship wrong. Tempest - utility gunboat - give it a tank - take away one non-turret high slot and give it two mid slots - do not change bonuses. Then all of a sudden people will go Hmm. Not very hard to do. And guess what? It is now a shield tanker, what it was allways meant to be looking at the Vargur - RIGHT? Malestrom - Pure Gunboat. Change this pile of dung. Give its sensors a range boost as its a tier three ship, so I don't need three sensor boosters to do what everyone else does with two. Make it the most agile and fastest battleship in the game by a decent margin. So it can either be used in sniper or autopest mode. And no; not a speed buff by 10% but by 20%. Then watch how many get used everywhere as skill points, skill as a pilot and teamwork determine best how to use this ship. No need to change dps as skills and rigs and fitouts will take care of the rest. I have to disagree with you. The Phoon, although stupidly skill intensive is an amazing ship. Near imbalanced due to the damage potential it now has combined with it's speed and slot layout. Maelstrom is one of my favourite ships in the game. Has the best mwd + sniper fit and for close range, it is the reason why no one uses an ac pest any more. And for what you want from it, the vargur provides.
Niffetin Gallente Omni Research	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:05:00 - [35] Originally by: Katashi I**uka Edited by: Katashi I**uka on 04/02/2008 17:26:00 Uh... what on earth are you smoking. I'm just going to investigate plated gank battleship setups here, other stuff; I am aware there are many battleship setups. [Tempest, [PVP] Plated Close-Range DPS] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Sensor Booster II, Targeting Speed 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 This has 102k EHP, 1024 dps, more range, has the option of using Barrage, and you get use explosive damage which is great against armor tankers. Plus, you get to fit a sensor booster. There's room for a flight of Warrior IIs in your drone bay and if you like you can fit a neut in one of the highs due to AC low fitting reqs, so you pretty much swat away light tacklers and such. VS. [Megathron, [PVP] T2 Max Gank] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L [empty high slot] Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x5 100k EHP (less than tempest) 1252 DPS (about 20% more), drone bay has no replacements, goes about 150m/s slower than the tempest, doesn't have a SB, and Null really has got nothing on Barrage for when you are webbed but have to reach out and touch someone. Nerf Tempest! --- Teeheee! mematar's Video Archive
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:25:00 - [36] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 05/02/2008 14:47:24 Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Bitter Amarr whine. Instead of acting like everyone shares your bitter delusions, why don't you enlighten us with your "wisdom"? I mean, surely if its as overpowered as you seem to think, it should be blatantly obvious, right? Of course, you really don't care about balance, do you? The crusade to "fix" Amarr at the expense of balance has been**ging up all of Eve-O for far too long. Giving TC/TE falloff bonuses isn't overpowered. Racial EWar that is exceptionally effective against one race without an effective counter is. Because TDs affecting fall off is like a damage mod in mid slot. We dont need AC boats sticking damage mods in lows AND mids. Its bad enough with fall off rigs and you want this aswell? Not going to happen. EDIT: yeah also, there is no real counter against ecm either that is viable to fit AND gives you a damage/range boost...so yeah this is eve, get used to it. And TCs affecting falloff only benefits Minmatar, amirite? You're being preposterously stupid about your anti-Minmatar crusade. The fact of the matter is, TDs have been overbalanced. They now affect two attributes with one script which was the whole reason for introducing scripts in the first place**. ECCM is an effective counter to ECM; the fact that ECM is binary means that you are either getting full damage or none. Just because you don't think it's effective, does not make it so.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:54:00 - [37] Originally by: Dianeces And TCs affecting falloff only benefits Minmatar, amirite? You're being preposterously stupid about your anti-Minmatar crusade. The fact of the matter is, TDs have been overbalanced. They now affect two attributes with one script which was the whole reason for introducing scripts in the first place. ECCM is an effective counter to ECM; the fact that ECM is binary means that you are either getting full damage or none. Just because you don't think it's effective, does not make it so. No TDs should utterly destroy turret combat ability when used on bonused ships, just like ecm totally shutting down a ships offense. ECM works on everything while TDs dont work against drones and missiles. TDs are fine with the changes. It has some downsides and some upsides. And no ECCM is not effective and is a comedy module tbpfh. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Alek Row Minmatar Silent Step	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Niffetin You really should verify those numbers before copy/paste. 2 Ogres + 2 Valks + 1 Warrior = 75m3 = Tempest Drone Bay last time I checked = No Spare Drones. I have no ideia where did you found the space for 5 warriors more... Maybe Valks and Ogres are having a good time in the Drone Bay. The armor values seem wrong... unless you're taking into account the next res changes, in current Trinity build, with those fittings the Mega have 105k EHP and Tempest 101k EHP. And I don't know if that fits... in both ships... unless you're using cpu/grid implants.
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:47:00 - [39] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dianeces And TCs affecting falloff only benefits Minmatar, amirite? You're being preposterously stupid about your anti-Minmatar crusade. The fact of the matter is, TDs have been overbalanced. They now affect two attributes with one script which was the whole reason for introducing scripts in the first place. ECCM is an effective counter to ECM; the fact that ECM is binary means that you are either getting full damage or none. Just because you don't think it's effective, does not make it so. No TDs should utterly destroy turret combat ability when used on bonused ships, just like ecm totally shutting down a ships offense. ECM works on everything while TDs dont work against drones and missiles. TDs are fine with the changes. It has some downsides and some upsides. And no ECCM is not effective and is a comedy module tbpfh. Actually, ECCM roughly doubles your sensor strength. Hardly a comedy module. And Dianeces has a good point that the same script is effecting two completely different attributes. Seems awfully stupid to me. And to get back on topic here... boost the tempest this 'boost' patch. I have zero reason to fly it over a phoon or maelstrom currently. -----
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:50:00 - [40] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dianeces And TCs affecting falloff only benefits Minmatar, amirite? You're being preposterously stupid about your anti-Minmatar crusade. The fact of the matter is, TDs have been overbalanced. They now affect two attributes with one script which was the whole reason for introducing scripts in the first place. ECCM is an effective counter to ECM; the fact that ECM is binary means that you are either getting full damage or none. Just because you don't think it's effective, does not make it so. No TDs should utterly destroy turret combat ability when used on bonused ships, just like ecm totally shutting down a ships offense. ECM works on everything while TDs dont work against drones and missiles. TDs are fine with the changes. It has some downsides and some upsides. And no ECCM is not effective and is a comedy module tbpfh. ECM doesn't work against F.O.F. missiles or drones. The difference would be, what exactly...? And you saying ECCM is not effective does not make it so, anymore than me saying speed isn't powerful enough and needs a good boost. You'll forgive me if I find your assertion that a module which makes a ship twice as hard to jam is "useless" utter garbage. In fact, this whole rant of yours screams of a child who won't accept logic and continues to demand instant gratification, consequences be damned. "BAAAAWWWW. Amarr have been terrible so long they deserve to be unstoppable now. I don't care what the evidence says, what I say is right and anyone who disagrees with me is a terrible person. BAAAAWWWW."

Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:24:00 - [41] That Plated-Neutron Megathron setup posted is a terrible fit and makes it seem on par to the Tempest. Use best named web/disruptor/damage control, drop a Mag Stab/Adaptive and fit 2 EANM IIs. It has far far more HP that the Tempest could possibly hope to achieve. Tempest is not a bad ship itself and works well versus smaller ship classes, but in comparison to other battleships it is lacking. Adding a turret (and removing the missile slots) would let it have similar DPS as it's current incarnation using missiles while still having a poor tank (but winning with mobility/agility) in comparison to other BS. Fitting Tracking Computers to midslots if they were to increase falloff is acceptable. Amarrian ships can fit one to do 100% DPS at a far greater range, if Minmatar were to fit one, they'd be doing 70-75% DPS instead of 50% at the same range they normally would be shooting at. 40km Pulse Zealot with no TCs doing 100% damage at all ranges with long range ammo, or 30km Vagabond fitting one doing 50%. Aramendel, Lyria, and Goumindong are sure to come running to prove how TCs aren't imbalanced on Amarr though.
Masempa	Posted - 2008.02.08 16:18:00 - [42] moar fall off!!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.08 19:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Fitting Tracking Computers to midslots if they were to increase falloff is acceptable. Amarrian ships can fit one to do 100% DPS at a far greater range, if Minmatar were to fit one, they'd be doing 70-75% DPS instead of 50% at the same range they normally would be shooting at. 40km Pulse Zealot with no TCs doing 100% damage at all ranges with long range ammo, or 24km Vagabond fitting one doing 50% (15% falloff increase, not 50%). Aramendel, Lyria, and Goumindong are sure to come running to prove how TCs aren't imbalanced on Amarr though. Youre forgetting that your total range is opti+fall off x2. So no, you cant have something that gives you same percentage boost to fall off. Ontop of the dps increase in your typical engagement range youre also getting more max range boost with an AC. Its overpowered. Give up and stop filling this thread with nonsense that doesnt add up. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Pipboy2K Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.08 19:59:00 - [44] at first: at opt range +2x falloff you hit NOTHING opt range: 100% chance to hit before speed, size etc opt range + 1x falloff: 50% chance to hit before speed, size etc opt range + 2x falloff: 0% chance to hit before speed, size etc (btw, the graph for the falloff is non-linear) the tempest got a nice boost with the base resistance reductions to em on armor (if you use rep fleet emp) the size of a tempest is relative small in comparision to the other bs normal bs sized guns got a sig radius of 400m the size of the mega for example is exact 400m sig radius the size of a tempest?: 340m sig radius... that means you get hit less if someone with bs sized guns shoots at you another + for the tempest: you CAN actually hit at ranges of 20km, unlike other bs (so do pulse lasers, ofc. but amarr ships are overpowerd now anyways, they were pretty good before the coming patch) and another point: on a gank mega you dont need a adaptive nano PLATING. stop using t2 warp disruptors if you are low on cpu. and its on you, if you want some more hitpoints (dual eanm t2 + dmg control) or you go for max gank (<-- i like that) with double plate, triple t2 magstabs, 1 eanm t2, 1 dmg control t2 i support the idea of scripts for TC to improve falloff. if TD gets a scrpit for that, TCs needs them as well (as other people already said, to counter TDs)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.08 20:27:00 - [45] Edited by: Goumindong on 08/02/2008 20:28:47 Double post
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.08 20:27:00 - [46] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 05/02/2008 22:39:38 That Plated-Neutron Megathron setup posted is a terrible fit and makes it seem on par to the Tempest. Use best named web/disruptor/damage control, drop a Mag Stab/Adaptive and fit 2 EANM IIs. It has far far more HP that the Tempest could possibly hope to achieve. Not really, no. I am away from my machine atm, but both the thron and pest are going to be hovering around 120-125k EHP with a 4 slot tank with 2 eanms
Bane Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.08 22:14:00 - [47] Well if I were to buff the Tempest, probably the best way to do it would be just to buff BS-sized autocannons. I really don't see much point to Dual 650mms and 800mms. The damage increase is pretty (with and without reload times included) minor, on the order of 10% from lowest to highest tier, and you lose a lot of tracking with practically no range increase at all. Large Autocannons are really just kind of..."meh". It's been noted by some pretty sharp people out there that projectiles don't get more falloff when you move up in tiers, while lasers and hybrids do. They do get more optimal as tiers escalate, but for large autocannons that's a difference of about 1.2km between lowest and highest tiers. It does seem natural to fix that by increasing the falloff, since hey, everything else gets it, so giving mid and higher tier ACs more base falloff could always be considered as an option. Then again, I wonder if it'd be better to increase the base optimal instead, since that would keep autocannons from trespassing on Pulse Lasers' midrange turf. I thought Tracking Disruptors affecting falloff was a good idea and said so on these forums a couple times, but I had thought they would make it a separate script from the optimal range script and give a counteracting script to Tracking Computers, though the bonus would have to be comparable to what you get from falloff rigs currently. As an aside the tracking disruptors on SiSi seem like they'd be balanced for hybrids and pulses, they look a little too powerful against ACs (-62.5% falloff with max skills on an Arbi? jeez louise). I don't really have the time to work out all the math these days though.
Julie Thorne	Posted - 2008.02.08 23:33:00 - [48] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Because TDs affecting fall off is like a damage mod in mid slot. We dont need AC boats sticking damage mods in lows AND mids. Its bad enough with fall off rigs and you want this aswell? Not going to happen. I guess you meant TCs not TDs. Pulses have tracking problems. TCs with tracking mods increase tracking... That means more damage in your typical engagement range... Oh, wait... The Amarrs use damage mods in lows and mids! Shame on you. Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi? BTW Bane has some very good points.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.09 01:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Bane Glorious I thought Tracking Disruptors affecting falloff was a good idea and said so on these forums a couple times, but I had thought they would make it a separate script from the optimal range script and give a counteracting script to Tracking Computers There is something called blasters in this game we call eve and blasters have both optimal and fall off that is accountable. Ive seen minmatar whines about this but the funny thing is if they had made a seperate script for fall off disruption minmatar would have whined about how it didnt affect gallente as much as it would affect minmatar. But maybe youre gallente and are trying to sneak in this little nerf on TDs before they have gone live? Its enough that we have the whole minmatar whine squad bashing TDs for pre nerf and wishing for overpowered TEs... TDs are fine as long as they are made viable on ew ships only. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.09 01:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 09/02/2008 02:00:50 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 09/02/2008 02:00:35 Originally by: Julie Thorne Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Because TDs affecting fall off is like a damage mod in mid slot. We dont need AC boats sticking damage mods in lows AND mids. Its bad enough with fall off rigs and you want this aswell? Not going to happen. I guess you meant TCs not TDs. Pulses have tracking problems. TCs with tracking mods increase tracking... That means more damage in your typical engagement range... Oh, wait... The Amarrs use damage mods in lows and mids! Shame on you. Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi? BTW Bane has some very good points. Amarr ew ships depend on disrupting enemies with nos and TDs. Hmm what happens if TDs dont work effectively on ACs? Maybe we can nos/neut them instead and shut down the guns? NO, BECAUSE ACs DONT USE CAP. Minmatar always likes to point out ALL the crappy sides of their weaponry but never seem to take into account that they have TURRET weapons that DONT USE CAP. Dont forget that please because its a stupidly powerful bonus. Deal with this TD change. As said, it just needs to be tweaked so it only works good on the dedicated amarr ships. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation

Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.09 03:44:00 - [51] Edited by: Dianeces on 09/02/2008 03:45:06 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Bane Glorious I thought Tracking Disruptors affecting falloff was a good idea and said so on these forums a couple times, but I had thought they would make it a separate script from the optimal range script and give a counteracting script to Tracking Computers There is something called blasters in this game we call eve and blasters have both optimal and fall off that is accountable. Ive seen minmatar whines about this but the funny thing is if they had made a seperate script for fall off disruption minmatar would have whined about how it didnt affect gallente as much as it would affect minmatar. But maybe youre gallente and are trying to sneak in this little nerf on TDs before they have gone live? Its enough that we have the whole minmatar whine squad bashing TDs for pre nerf and wishing for overpowered TEs... TDs are fine as long as they are made viable on ew ships only. Oh, of course it's all the Minmatar players' fault for wanting a resonable counter. It's not your fault at all you want a totally imbalanced racial ewar. And it's not like you've ever whined about Amarr and how terrible they are and how they need to be better , or about anything you don't like and feel should be fixed. No, no, you're absolutely right. Please continue with your cognitive dissonance. Edited for grammar.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.09 04:00:00 - [52] Originally by: Bane Glorious Well if I were to buff the Tempest, probably the best way to do it would be just to buff BS-sized autocannons. I really don't see much point to Dual 650mms and 800mms. The damage increase is pretty (with and without reload times included) minor, on the order of 10% from lowest to highest tier, and you lose a lot of tracking with practically no range increase at all. Large Autocannons are really just kind of..."meh". It's been noted by some pretty sharp people out there that projectiles don't get more falloff when you move up in tiers, while lasers and hybrids do. They do get more optimal as tiers escalate, but for large autocannons that's a difference of about 1.2km between lowest and highest tiers. It does seem natural to fix that by increasing the falloff, since hey, everything else gets it, so giving mid and higher tier ACs more base falloff could always be considered as an option. Then again, I wonder if it'd be better to increase the base optimal instead, since that would keep autocannons from trespassing on Pulse Lasers' midrange turf. I thought Tracking Disruptors affecting falloff was a good idea and said so on these forums a couple times, but I had thought they would make it a separate script from the optimal range script and give a counteracting script to Tracking Computers, though the bonus would have to be comparable to what you get from falloff rigs currently. As an aside the tracking disruptors on SiSi seem like they'd be balanced for hybrids and pulses, they look a little too powerful against ACs (-62.5% falloff with max skills on an Arbi? jeez louise). I don't really have the time to work out all the math these days though. Seems like a good idea regarding BS sized ACs. Fiddle with the numbers and fitting requirements to make the gap between low-mid-high more distinguishable. Regarding plated Megathron vs Tempest, the difference is only 1500 EHP in favour of the Megathron. The Mega does 377 more DPS at optimal than the Tempest (although it doesn't have the option of heavy neuts), whilst the Tempest has the option of range (although cutting it's DPS by a significant amount due to falloff). Both can work well; but having a higher DPS also means a lot less tanking to do (ie. A ship doing 600 DPS to one tanking 500 DPS will kill it twice as fast as a ship doing 550 DPS to it, etc). Any attempts to talk about boosting Minmatar though will be met by a ravenous horde of Amarrians on these forums though, so one must tread carefully.
Julie Thorne	Posted - 2008.02.09 09:33:00 - [53] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 09/02/2008 02:00:50 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 09/02/2008 02:00:35 Originally by: Julie Thorne Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Because TDs affecting fall off is like a damage mod in mid slot. We dont need AC boats sticking damage mods in lows AND mids. Its bad enough with fall off rigs and you want this aswell? Not going to happen. I guess you meant TCs not TDs. Pulses have tracking problems. TCs with tracking mods increase tracking... That means more damage in your typical engagement range... Oh, wait... The Amarrs use damage mods in lows and mids! Shame on you. Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi? BTW Bane has some very good points. Amarr ew ships depend on disrupting enemies with nos and TDs. Hmm what happens if TDs dont work effectively on ACs? Maybe we can nos/neut them instead and shut down the guns? NO, BECAUSE ACs DONT USE CAP. Minmatar always likes to point out ALL the crappy sides of their weaponry but never seem to take into account that they have TURRET weapons that DONT USE CAP. Dont forget that please because its a stupidly powerful bonus. Deal with this TD change. As said, it just needs to be tweaked so it only works good on the dedicated amarr ships. Care to read what I wrote? Did I mention TDs? No. Then what are you talking about?
FinrodFelagund Rome Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:05:00 - [54] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ariel Dawn Fitting Tracking Computers to midslots if they were to increase falloff is acceptable. Amarrian ships can fit one to do 100% DPS at a far greater range, if Minmatar were to fit one, they'd be doing 70-75% DPS instead of 50% at the same range they normally would be shooting at. 40km Pulse Zealot with no TCs doing 100% damage at all ranges with long range ammo, or 24km Vagabond fitting one doing 50% (15% falloff increase, not 50%). Aramendel, Lyria, and Goumindong are sure to come running to prove how TCs aren't imbalanced on Amarr though. Youre forgetting that your total range is opti+fall off x2. So no, you cant have something that gives you same percentage boost to fall off. Ontop of the dps increase in your typical engagement range youre also getting more max range boost with an AC. Its overpowered. Give up and stop filling this thread with nonsense that doesnt add up. Do you even know how falloff works? At opti+falloff you do 50% to hit at opti+falloffx2 you will miss nearly every time. Give up and stop filling this thread with nonsense that doesnt add up.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:46:00 - [55] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 09/02/2008 12:46:52 Originally by: Julie Thorne ...BTW Bane has some very good points. .... Care to read what I wrote? Did I mention TDs? No. Then what are you talking about? Bane doesnt have good points. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:48:00 - [56] Originally by: FinrodFelagund ... Do you even know how falloff works? At opti+falloff you do 50% to hit at opti+falloffx2 you will miss nearly every time. Give up and stop filling this thread with nonsense that doesnt add up. Yes and if you would look at a single graph about how 15% fall off TE affects the dps and range of an AC youd understand how this whole thing works aswell. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:52:00 - [57] Originally by: Dianeces Oh, of course it's all the Minmatar players' fault for wanting a resonable counter. It's not your fault at all you want a totally imbalanced racial ewar. And it's not like you've ever whined about Amarr and how terrible they are and how they need to be better , or about anything you don't like and feel should be fixed. No, no, you're absolutely right. Please continue with your cognitive dissonance. Edited for grammar. Pretty much every counter proposal would give ACs too high edge above other weaponry. Dont forget that you are using capless turrets. A pilgrim needs to be able to kill your dps because he cant do it by neutralizing your cap. You cant get used to the idea that ACs finally get hit by TDs. As long as its only amarr ew ships that can viably use the new TDs this wont be a problem. You just want it all. Cap less turrets, just as much dps as everyone else with cap turrets, all the damage types, super protection from TDs that serves as dps boost in combat range and a huge total range boost. mmmmm I think not... -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Bane Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:36:00 - [58] For the record, I fly Amarr primarily and Minmatar when Amarr can't cut it. Look on the test server right now and check out the new Tracking Disruptors. With the optimal range script, max skills, and on a TD boat, it reduces both optimal and falloff by 62%, which is very significant. Of course, there are things that make that not such a big deal. Minmatar ships like the 'Pest still have missiles that aren't affected by TDs, there are still some drones available as backup, most dedicated TD ships don't have many midslots for TDs (such as the Arbi and Crucifier families), but it still does seem severe. Then again, maybe putting a TD in the fifth midslot on a Tempest will become popular, since even without a ship bonus the spec skill will reduce optimal and falloff by ~50%, which would make a huge difference against a blasterthron. I guess we'll have to see how it pans out in the next few months, but I still think that upper-tier Large ACs (Dual 650mm and 800mm) could use a minor buff.
Cpt Constantinus PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:48:00 - [59] Give the ship an aditional turret, this would be probably enough to boost it.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:59:00 - [60] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dianeces Oh, of course it's all the Minmatar players' fault for wanting a resonable counter. It's not your fault at all you want a totally imbalanced racial ewar. And it's not like you've ever whined about Amarr and how terrible they are and how they need to be better , or about anything you don't like and feel should be fixed. No, no, you're absolutely right. Please continue with your cognitive dissonance. Edited for grammar. Pretty much every counter proposal would give ACs too high edge above other weaponry. Dont forget that you are using capless turrets. A pilgrim needs to be able to kill your dps because he cant do it by neutralizing your cap. You cant get used to the idea that ACs finally get hit by TDs. As long as its only amarr ew ships that can viably use the new TDs this wont be a problem. You just want it all. Cap less turrets, just as much dps as everyone else with cap turrets, all the damage types, super protection from TDs that serves as dps boost in combat range and a huge total range boost. mmmmm I think not... It's almost like you talk about cap boosters not existing. Last time I checked Amarr ships were not restricted from fitting them. And I'm sure a Tempest with 6km optimal 30km falloff doing 454 DPS at optimal+falloff would be completely overpowered if it got 15% more falloff from using up a valuable midslot compared to an Armageddon doing 998 DPS at 45km optimal 10km falloff. It outranges the tempest, does TWICE the DPS... but OH NOES it uses capacitor. Oh wait, I just clicked the cap booster and I keep firing. The damage difference decreases as the distance is reduced, but the 'pest just cannot compete. And who the hell would bother fitting a Tracking Computer over a Tracking Disruptor anyway? +15 falloff on your own guns, or -50% optimal AND -50% falloff on theirs. Not a difficult decision. Super-protection from TDs, laugh, the difference between a TD vs a Pest is 15km falloff for one without and 17.25km for one with. You just want Amarr to have it all at the expense of balance regarding all other races. I suggest you close Eve Fitting Tool and actually figure out how Minmatar fight; the large bulk of your 'facts/opinions' are so off the mark they make for worthy material to appear in comedy fitting advice threads. You appear in every single thread even mentioning the possibility of a Minmatar boost. I now believe you are an extreme roleplayer carrying out your 'minmatar are evil slaves' doctrine or whatever your kiind does, as there really is no other explanation for your contempt of all things concerning them. I suggest you find some other Amarrians to yiff with.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.