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Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
23
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Posted - 2011.09.07 10:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
4 new ships, cloaky EAS
they would compliment a cloaky bomber fleet
basically mini-recons
shouldnt take too much to implement
tell me you like this idea!!!! |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.09.07 11:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why stop at EAS when we could have PDQ, RGB or maybe even SBZ? |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
23
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Posted - 2011.09.07 11:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
you are terrible, gtfo |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
52
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Posted - 2011.09.07 11:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
WTF? - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
23
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Posted - 2011.09.07 11:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
ok.. mayeb 'EAS' ships are to terribly underused that i have to spell it out for you
ELECTRONIC ATTACK SHIPS
in other words, recons, but in frigate size |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
52
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Posted - 2011.09.07 11:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
oooh those ships yeah, never even flown one and I pretty much have flown every class.
Sounds good actually, make it so! - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Overs
Battlestars S E D I T I O N
4
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Posted - 2011.09.07 12:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Recons are the combo you describe, thus the platform already exists.
I do think electronic attack ships need a targeting range boost. Skills that boost targeting range are classed under Electronics; modules that boost targeting range and resolution are classed under Electronics. I think it's odd that on a kitsune ewar can have an optimal range greater than it's targeting range. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
23
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Posted - 2011.09.07 12:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Overs wrote:Recons are the combo you describe, thus the platform already exists. I disagree, by your reasoning we should scrap the current EAS all together because the recons already do the same job?
There are EWAR bonused cloaky and non-cloaky ships for cruisers (Recons), and so frigates should get the same treatment |
Furb Killer
6
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Posted - 2011.09.07 12:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
When in doubt, give it a cov ops cloak?
I must admit I am genuinely surprised I havent seen yet a proposal to boost dreads by giving them cov ops cloaks. |
Overs
Battlestars S E D I T I O N
4
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Posted - 2011.09.09 13:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Overs wrote:Recons are the combo you describe, thus the platform already exists. I disagree, by your reasoning we should scrap the current EAS all together because the recons already do the same job? There are EWAR bonused cloaky and non-cloaky ships for cruisers (Recons), and so frigates should get the same treatment
No. By my reasoning there is a frigate platform for stealth and a frigate platform for ewar; to mix the two platforms together requires a larger platform known as a cruiser.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
0
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fix the EAS ships first! |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
24
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Posted - 2011.09.12 09:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Overs wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Overs wrote:Recons are the combo you describe, thus the platform already exists. I disagree, by your reasoning we should scrap the current EAS all together because the recons already do the same job? There are EWAR bonused cloaky and non-cloaky ships for cruisers (Recons), and so frigates should get the same treatment No. By my reasoning there is a frigate platform for stealth and a frigate platform for ewar; to mix the two platforms together requires a larger platform known as a cruiser. nope, still wrong.
its so simple to understand
the relation in frigates>cruisers>battleships has pretty much been that there are ship types of equal use in each tier.
recons are cruisers, EAS are frigates, (and Black Ops are Battleships - my argument with EAS applies equally with them as well)
recons have an established 2 ship mix, cloaky and non-cloaky. The cloaky ship often exchanges range of ewar effect for the ability to cloak
so, with the already established 2 ship mix of long range non-cloaky and short range cloaky, we can apply this to the EAS ships, (and Black Ops)
In my mind, there isnt an argument over whether these ships should or shouldnt exist, because they should, but on how we balance them into the game. |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
T3 frigates! |
Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Supported.. and while at it.. lets add Black-Ops with capital torpedo launchers, a BS sized stealth bomber as mentined in other threads. Something that can suddenly pounce on an unsuspecting capital ship and pew pew it to shreds.
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Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
1
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Posted - 2011.09.12 15:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xearal wrote:Supported.. and while at it.. lets add Black-Ops with capital torpedo launchers, a BS sized stealth bomber as mentined in other threads. Something that can suddenly pounce on an unsuspecting capital ship and pew pew it to shreds.
Yes, because pewpewing a lone capital (which is screwed anyway, if the pilot is that dim) with a 600mil isk battleship is totally a desperately needed nich+¬. Idiot.
Regarding the OP: oh god no. Why do we need more cloaky ships? There are plenty of ways to make EAFs more viable without giving yet another class the covops cloak. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Atlas.
70
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Posted - 2011.09.12 16:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
more consentual pvp ships please |
shadowace00007
Beyond The Gates Tri Sol Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 16:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think they are proper where they are. I do think they need a range boost for the most part but other then that They work great. People just underestimate them so they don't fly them. Example being people grab a Huginn or rapier insted of a Hyena. but for the price they work the way they should.
If you give them a cov cloak then Black ops drops will get ridiculously strong. As you can bring more frigs using less Black-ops ships due to less fuel and get the same effect. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.12 18:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
shadowace00007 wrote:I think they are proper where they are. I do think they need a range boost for the most part but other then that They work great. People just underestimate them so they don't fly them. Example being people grab a Huginn or rapier insted of a Hyena. but for the price they work the way they should.
If you give them a cov cloak then Black ops drops will get ridiculously strong. As you can bring more frigs using less Black-ops ships due to less fuel and get the same effect.
Let's talk about the Hyena. It, like the other EAS, has a smaller lock range then it's T1 counterpart. You acknowledge this. It also has a signature radius that's too large for it to survive. I've tried armor tanking the thing. I've tried shield tanking it. It quite simply is too fat of a target to survive very long in combat. Someone looks at it and the hyena will die. The ship also skipped over the fun 5% velocity bonus that the Vigil gets.
As for it's bonuses: Web range - check. Target painter - sigh, check. Signature reduction bonus? Okay, for those that don't remember this bonus is a lesser version of the one that interceptors USED to get before the speed nerf. After the speed nerf it was clear that the bonus wasn't cutting it - it got changed to the current one of reducing the MWD sig bloom penalty. The Hyena, however, got overlooked. A lesser version today would be 10% reduction to the MWD sig bloom penalty per level.
The last bonus is a reduction to the cap penalty of using a MWD. I view this differently from the other bonuses because when you start to look at all of the EAF, you notice they have some kind of version of this cap bonus. The sentinel gets a 25% cap recharge bonus at lvl 5. The kitsune gets one in ADDITION to the reduced ECM cap need bonus. The Keres and Hyena get a reduced cap use bonus. This aspcect of the class is screaming out for a capacitor role bonus of some sort.
TL;DR
Sensible Hyena: 38m sig radius
Frigate Bonus: 5% velocity per level and 7.5% Target Painter effectiveness per level. (Similar to Vigil save for the better TP bonus) EAS Bonus: 10% reduction in MWD signature radius penalty and 20% web range bonus per level
Role Bonus: 25% faster capacitor recharge.
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Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
1
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Posted - 2011.09.13 09:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:[quote=shadowace00007] Sensible Hyena: 38m sig radius
Frigate Bonus: 5% velocity per level and 7.5% Target Painter effectiveness per level. (Similar to Vigil save for the better TP bonus) EAS Bonus: 10% reduction in MWD signature radius penalty and 20% web range bonus per level
Role Bonus: 25% faster capacitor recharge.
Oh look, a sensible boost that doesn't involve yet another covops cloak ship. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
35
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Posted - 2011.09.13 09:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
i know that the current EAS ships need a boost as well, i just thought that we could use an extra ship type
So, you dont like the idea, give a reasonable reply about WHY |
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
17
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Posted - 2011.09.13 10:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Because we don't need more ship types, if 50% of the ones already in game are near useless. Why not simply fix those and save the art department time they can use to design more boots.
I agree, flying a Kitsune is in large part finding the fragile balance between getting uncomfortably close to your target and losing lock because you're out of targeting range (even with LRT V). It could use a boost, but not a very high one; as I quite like the mechanic. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
2
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
You also seem to be under the impression that all the EAFs are broken. The Hyena is the only one in dire need of fixing - the Kitsune is perfectly workable, the Sentinel is excellent, and the Keres is a very capable tackler if you bother to fit it right.
Just lower sig radius to bring them in line with other frigates and give the Kitsune a small lock range boost. The Hyena could also use a slight buff to the web range bonus. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
40
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:You also seem to be under the impression that all the EAFs are broken. The Hyena is the only one in dire need of fixing - the Kitsune is perfectly workable, the Sentinel is excellent, and the Keres is a very capable tackler if you bother to fit it right.
Just lower sig radius to bring them in line with other frigates and give the Kitsune a small lock range boost. The Hyena could also use a slight buff to the web range bonus. your two sentences seem to be at odds with each other
also yes they are 'broken' if there are more supercap pilots than EAS pilots |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
2
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:your two sentences seem to be at odds with each other Hardly. I'll break it down for you (if you need it in simpler words, just ask):
You seem to be the under the impression that EAFs are broken, I.E worthless. This is not the case, with the sole exception of the Hyena.
Quote:also yes they are 'broken' if there are more supercap pilots than EAS pilots Hardly. The fact that relatively few people fly them doesn't change the fact that statwise they're for the most part fine. The Sentinel in particular is quite a popular solo frigate, the Kitsune is a perfectly workable and very mobile ECM ship and the Keres can point out to 40km with respectable speed and scan res.
The only one that needs more than a sig radius/lock range tweak is the Hyena, and even that isn't a major change.
Giving them covops cloaks on the other hand is just ******* stupid. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
40
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:Giving them covops cloaks on the other hand is just ******* stupid.
yet you still fail to give a real reason WHY you dislike the idea of a new EAS ship with a cov ops bonus
edit - one thing i will conceed though is my use of the word BROKEN i should have said they need a REBALANCE
but thats a bit of a sidetrack, what im on about here is some parity with the recons
Force Recon & Combat Recon
we should get
Force EAS & Combat EAS |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
2
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:yet you still fail to give a real reason WHY you dislike the idea of a new EAS ship with a cov ops bonus
Actually it's more like you've failed to give a decent reason why they should have it, especially when simply tweaking a few minor attributes would fix them much more effectively without the balance nightmare of covops-capable Kitsunes. |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.09.13 15:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Duchess Starbuckington wrote:Giving them covops cloaks on the other hand is just ******* stupid. yet you still fail to give a real reason WHY you dislike the idea of a new EAS ship with a cov ops bonus edit - one thing i will conceed though is my use of the word BROKEN i should have said they need a REBALANCE but thats a bit of a sidetrack, what im on about here is some parity with the recons Force Recon & Combat Recon we should get Force EAS & Combat EAS
Maybe if they bring out T3 frigates you could make that kind of ship but i think what you are suggesting would render force recon ships useless.
I would be in favour of buffing their current abilities though.
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Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
2
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Posted - 2011.09.13 15:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Which fill what nich+¬, precisely? |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
40
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Posted - 2011.09.13 15:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:Which fill what nich+¬, precisely?
funny you say that , because with a whole minute of your time, you would find out that the 'combat' tag refers to the NON CLOAKY version of the recon.
which is EXACTLY the current state of the EAS right now.
what i am lobbying for is the 'force' version to be added to the lineup
..bet you feel clever now huh?
Rek Seven wrote: Maybe if they bring out T3 frigates you could make that kind of ship but i think what you are suggesting would render force recon ships useless.
I would be in favour of buffing their current abilities though.
tbh, if they release t3 frigates, they would make all other frigate types obsolete imo
moving on though, to put your comment in perspective
have Interdictors rendered HIC's useless? - (maybe this isnt the best comparison, but you get the idea) have Assault Ships rendered HAC's useless?
we all know in both cases the answer is no, with sensible balancing of module strength, slot layout, effective range, etc, they can be released without impacting on the effectiveness of their 'big brother' recons.
and like i have said before, the cloaky variants always get less in the way of range and 'tank' than the non cloaky variants, as we can plainly see in the recons themselves.
I believe there is a definite space for this new 'force' EAS ship to live in |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
2
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Posted - 2011.09.13 15:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quote:which is EXACTLY the current state of the EAS right now.
No it's not. An equivilent of the combat recons would have significant offensive abilities on top of their EWAR.
You really don't have a single clue what you're talking about, do you? |
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