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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:56:00 -
[1]
From someone who joined the game at the tail end of the BPO lottery - I feel rather sad that there's no easy way I can become a multi-billionaire overnight...
Invention is a great hassle compared to T2 BPOs, and well...The BPOS are STILL dominating the markets and making the rich much richer.
It seems that the average value used for the T2 BPO which used to be a value of 1 years profit margin is now 2 years profit to buy the BPO which means demand is greater than ever (making T2 BPOs harder to get into) and the fat cats *cough* Khatred *cough*, enjoy a game that the rest of us poor peons will never know.
So can you please explain the current CCP veiw on this? if and/or when invention will become the only way of making T2?
(As was suggested by Oveur a long time back saying the T2 BPOs would become long run BPCs)
OR can you bring back the lottery so the trailer-trash of Jita, crap money-making people like me have some hope of one day getting rich overnight (that does not involve massive corp theft!) ?!?
/me would put on the T2 Thermal Resistance platings at this point, but failed with the damn invention job too many times. Bring down that rain of fire Eve-ites.
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Pizi
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:03:00 -
[2]
your chances are better now to get an BPO YOU want
just sell the DC¦s and buy a bpo that fits you
before it was a huge pain to get the few good BPO¦s
_______________________________________________
Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist
EVEpedia[Deutsch]
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Braaage
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:13:00 -
[3]
The BPO Lottery was a bad idea to begin with but it happened.
Now, CCP removed the bad idea but they couldn't possibly remove all the T2 BPOs because it would
1) **** off a whole load of players who have them
2) completely wreck the transition of ISK with players that sold them on (if 1 was carrier out)
3) If you removed the BPOs then you would also have to remove all the ships built with them as it would break the economy of EVE to have a ship built by something that no longer exists. This means breaking down the ships back into components.
But wait where do you stop....
If you put back the T2 Lottery then what use is Invention???
1) People would stop exchanging RPs for datacores (datacore prices would spiral out of control)
2) Invention would more or less stop completely so T2 ships would dry up (ship prices would return to what they were previously before invention)
Every little change in EVE may lead to a bigger consequence.
It's not just as simple as bringing the lottery back.
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eve-guides.com
All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!! |
Siltan
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:21:00 -
[4]
You also have to remember that alot of the T2 component bpos (which are the most common) are worth very little now, the T2 component prices have been reduced by a massive proportion, i.e. cargo expanders, they used to be producable at a rate of something like 100 / day / bpo, for 25mil each, they are now worth 1 mil each and thier production rate is at around 20 / day (approx).
The only T2 bpo's that are relativly unaffected are the ammo (which isnt too proftiable anyway) and the ship bpo's. But even they are at 2/3 of what they were at.
Also if 1000 more 100bil bpo's were introduced into the economy, what do you think it would do to it!
Its not gonna happen, and if it did it wouldnt help.
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:24:00 -
[5]
Not all t2 BPOs are coveted items. When The problem is that when there was a lottery, people with the profitable bpo's (e.g. cap recharger II, vagabond, ishtar...etc) bought out a huge number of the other bpo's (e.g. Khatred).
So if the lottery does come back, what will happen is that Khatred and others like him will buy them up from those who score.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:34:00 -
[6]
This:
 Quote:
I feel rather sad that there's no easy way I can become a multi-billionaire overnight...
Makes me hope this is just a joke thread, or the OP completely doesn't understand the game...
Improve Market Competition! |
Padreic
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.12 15:42:00 -
[7]
I would be very pleased to see "research trees" within Eve, either at the pod-pilot or at the corporation/alliance level.
People could then decide to spend their research points to explore new branches/domains leading to T2 BPOs or whatever...
So no more global lottery, only a little randomness in order to get access to real Tx BPOs.
Of course the time scale of such a process would be quite long, so that the quickest way to access T2 items would still be through invention.
Research trees for pilot/corporation/alliance would be independent, so that a pilot could decide whether to do research for himself, or to join a corporation/alliance common research effort.
A pilot could also benefit from the researches already achieved by its corporation, by spending its research time to integrate the corporation results to its own research tree. (That would be a way for spies to steal technologies from other corps...  )
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Braaage
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 16:51:00 -
[8]
I would have preferred to be able to buy limited run BPCs from R&D agents than this invention stuff.
Too much random in it for my liking.
--
eve-guides.com
All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!! |
Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.02.12 18:03:00 -
[9]
Lotteries are bad, it never should have been introduced and will never be brought back.
However, there's something to be said for T2 BPO's as high end industrial content. We've been discussing this in MD and it has been strongly agreed that CCP needs more high end industrial content, we even got a dev to comment that they are working on it though he somehow thought ambulation would solve a lot of things, I have my doubts. Anyways, the regular auctioning of T2 BPO's by the in-game research corps (completely unconnected to RP, just a general auction) would not just offer a measure of this high end industrial content but soak up some of the ever increasing ISK.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Zan Tu
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Posted - 2008.02.12 18:26:00 -
[10]
lotterys are a tax on people with poor math skills....
"R&D Lottery: A Tax on people with poor math skills..."
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:14:00 -
[11]
Tech trees, now there's an interesting idea...
Perhaps a million RPs opens up something new to your corp (and only your corp) from the LP store?
Perhaps some unique scripts, or the MUCH MALIGNED dual armour repping bonus Deimos that CCP wants to dump on us Gallente *wink*.
The point of the thread is the lottery was something 'different' that kept me (at least) interested and hopeful every time I logged in that something amazing could have happened overnight. This 'hope' was lost with the end of the T2 lottery. Perhaps unlocking 'hidden' content with RPs could replace that.
CCP also appear to have clammed up about future science and industry. They used to talk a lot more about things.
Whatever happened to 'branding' of modules that was talked about as the new Tech 3? Indeed - will there ever be a Tech 3?
CCP has not really fundamentally developed and improved the science and industry part of the game for such a long time. Invention was a big improvement, but where is CCP going with it?
Is it just me that feels that CCP are running out of ideas, not communicating those ideas any more, or even worse...running out of steam for delivering on those ideas???
Yes it is a loaded question the way I'm asking about it hehe, but there never seems to be much comment from CCP on this vital yet less talked about part of the game.
- Oh and if there's a new way to get multi-billion rich overnight for little or no effort then please mail me in game - Thank you. 
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Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.02.12 23:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
- Oh and if there's a new way to get multi-billion rich overnight for little or no effort then please mail me in game - Thank you.
Send me 5 billion ISK and I'll eve-mail you how to do this.
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Steve Clone
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:05:00 -
[13]
No need to re-introduce the broken T2 lottery system...
No need to remove existing T2 BPO...
Just make T2 BPC ME and PE researchable...
T2 BPO owners can keep their isk making machine...
Inventors get to compete with T2 BPO owners...
AND for those lucky T2 BPO ship owners STFU!!!! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR INVENTORS TO COMPETE WITH THEM!!!! IMPOSSIBLE WITH OUR -ve ME BPC!!!!!!!
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Aslord
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:25:00 -
[14]
this is from hindsight!
ccp should just lease the t2 bpo.
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Aslord
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Steve Clone
No need to re-introduce the broken T2 lottery system...
No need to remove existing T2 BPO...
Just make T2 BPC ME and PE researchable...
T2 BPO owners can keep their isk making machine...
Inventors get to compete with T2 BPO owners...
AND for those lucky T2 BPO ship owners STFU!!!! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR INVENTORS TO COMPETE WITH THEM!!!! IMPOSSIBLE WITH OUR -ve ME BPC!!!!!!!
if you are an inventor, you would know how much work it take to be competitive!
1. copy bp
2. invent
3. produce.
for bpo
1. just get the material and produce!
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MORRS
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
The point of the thread is the lottery was something 'different' that kept me (at least) interested and hopeful every time I logged in that something amazing could have happened overnight. This 'hope' was lost with the end of the T2 lottery. Perhaps unlocking 'hidden' content with RPs could replace that.
This is what I miss and why I had 5 paid accounts all with high sp in science.
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UrMommy
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Posted - 2008.02.13 08:55:00 -
[17]
 Now Here's a slightly different spin,
So the whole -ve ME and PE from my point of view sucks big time hard to produce a ship with profit in some cases, so why dont CCP just make all output invention jobs at 0:ME and 0:PE and use decrpytors and items as a way to increase the result and gain +Runs that way all inventions jobs compete with a reasonable chance but still a % chance of gaining that BPC your after 
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Bambi
Existentialist Collective
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Posted - 2008.02.13 15:39:00 -
[18]
I donÆt know how many T2 BPOÆs you guys think there are in game, but I bet its not many more than a couple of thousand, and that includes all the common crap ones like ammo and drones. The way I understood how the old lottery system worked was each agent had 1 chance to produce a BPO listed in the likely available BP lists. Once someone had had a lucky hit and got one of these BPOÆs that was it, gone from the agents list nobody else was getting one from that agent. So the actual number of T2 BPOÆs out there is pretty limited.
Re-introducing this hit and miss invention would be a HUGE mistake, would you want to spend another 2 years on R&D to accumulate 250,000 RP only to get, well nothing, zip, nadda? There would be 100Æs of æIts not fairÆ threads and conspiracy theories about Devs seeding their alliances players agents with BPOs and it would only make a handful of new insta-billionaires.
As for the BPO holder monopoly, thatÆs complete fantasy. Do you guys really think that every Cerberus sold in New Eden is sold by the half dozen or so BPO holders? Even with a -4 me BPC of a Cerberus you can sell it for 60 million and still make 25 mill profit. If we still had only a couple of BPO holders Cerbs would still be at the 300 million mark, not at the 60-70 million price tag we see today. There is also no way that the few BPO holders can fill the market demand either, there will always be buyers for the invented T2 ships, even if they are more expensive.
You donÆt have to sell your wares in Jita either, everyone knows you get the lowest prices in Jita, but tbh who can be bothered to travel 20 jumps for the ultimate lag sensation only to save a few hundred k or a few million on a ship. I frequently sell all my invented gear way above Jita prices, it may take a few days longer to sell but I make a LOT more money than the Jita-*****s.
I donÆt like the way that the final ME of a BPC is set in stone though, I have always said that the input BPC should affect the output copy. Why should a ME 50 Raven copy produce the same Golem print as a ME 0 BPC? How about every +10 ME on the input copy gives you +1 ME on top of the base output copy, rounded down. So a ME 50 BPC would produce an ME 1 T2 print as base, modified by the decryptor used.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.02.13 19:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
...We've been discussing this in MD and it has been strongly agreed that CCP needs more high end industrial content, we even got a dev to comment that they are working on it though he somehow thought ambulation would solve a lot of things, I have my doubts...
I think their solution is Bjorn Borg underware and Versace dresses BPOs. Probably constructed from hard-to-find materials ...
... "Dark Blood Red Dye" + "Serpentis Pet Snake Skin" + "Gurista Bunny Fur" + makes "Fur-Lined Snake-Skin Thigh Length Boots". Hot seller for Gallente Avatars for sure. 
≡v≡ Strategic Maps - Outposts & Sov - Alliance Rank |
William Ortega
Grave Diggers
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.13 19:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Steve Clone
No need to re-introduce the broken T2 lottery system...
No need to remove existing T2 BPO...
Just make T2 BPC ME and PE researchable...
T2 BPO owners can keep their isk making machine...
Inventors get to compete with T2 BPO owners...
AND for those lucky T2 BPO ship owners STFU!!!! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR INVENTORS TO COMPETE WITH THEM!!!! IMPOSSIBLE WITH OUR -ve ME BPC!!!!!!!
Maybe it is impossible for you. I compete just fine.
Originally by: Aslord
if you are an inventor, you would know how much work it take to be competitive!
1. copy bp
2. invent
3. produce.
for bpo
1. just get the material and produce!
True. On the other hand, suppose you're selling a hot t2 item (and I don't see why the hell you shouldn't since you can switch production pretty much on the fly).
Now the BPO owner can pump out 1 line of product, while you can pump out 11 manufacturing lines (well probly 9, with the other two being used to make the expensive t2 components). Either way you're making more money then him by simply outproducing him. If he wants to increase his production he needs to go into invention himself... at which point the scales are fair again.
t2 BPO's are not a problem. Except they generate a disproportionate amount of envy.
Finally, T2 BPO lottery was replaced by invention lottery. Only this time instead of waiting for a year for a gift from heaven (it was similar to sitting by the door waiting for a big-ass check from the Sweepstakes Clearing House), at any point in the game you can go and invent stuff, and voila 2hours - 2 days later you have the result (kinda like scratching off a lotto ticket... at least you did something about it)
-Willy |
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Elrinarie
Gallente
Freelancers Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.13 20:45:00 -
[21]
They should have ways for you to invest a ton of money and reasearch points into buying a t2 BPO.
But of course i'm also one to get rid of moon mining.
Creator of another Mining Calculator |
Shintai
Gallente
IonTech Corporation
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Posted - 2008.02.13 21:01:00 -
[22]
CCP simply needs to nerf the old T2 BPOs. Give them a last run for the money. But they need to be removed, permantly.
I really dont want to hear any excuse on how hard it was to get and blabla. There was 10000s others that did the same work and didnt get anything. CCP gave a few people an ISK printer. And it needs to be removed. Just like the "mishap" with T5 items in the early days with a certain corp with Apocs mining.
CCP should also put up a list basicly, saying these T2 BPOs are out. Expect competition you can never compete with.
And no, I aint having personal issues with it because I stay to items tehre is no T2 BPOs for.
But its simply sad to see. By sheer luck some people have gotten endless billions for nothing.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.13 21:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Lotteries are bad, it never should have been introduced and will never be brought back.
However, there's something to be said for T2 BPO's as high end industrial content. We've been discussing this in MD and it has been strongly agreed that CCP needs more high end industrial content, we even got a dev to comment that they are working on it though he somehow thought ambulation would solve a lot of things, I have my doubts. Anyways, the regular auctioning of T2 BPO's by the in-game research corps (completely unconnected to RP, just a general auction) would not just offer a measure of this high end industrial content but soak up some of the ever increasing ISK.
Can you link the discussion? I have missed it and it interest me. TY
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.13 21:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Steve Clone
No need to re-introduce the broken T2 lottery system...
No need to remove existing T2 BPO...
Just make T2 BPC ME and PE researchable...
T2 BPO owners can keep their isk making machine...
Inventors get to compete with T2 BPO owners...
AND for those lucky T2 BPO ship owners STFU!!!! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR INVENTORS TO COMPETE WITH THEM!!!! IMPOSSIBLE WITH OUR -ve ME BPC!!!!!!!
Ever looked what researching T2 BPO require (time and skill wise)?
It would be much better if the starting ME/PE from the BPC would reduce the resulting ME/PE with a 10:1 reduction. I.e., starting BPC ME = 30, result BPC ME get a +3 in addition to the other invention ME modifiers.
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Bark Skin
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Posted - 2008.02.14 08:44:00 -
[25]
10:1 reduction or even 50:1 reduction would be fine. You have to invest much time, effort and resources to get a good t2 bpc. so research of t1 bpos is valid and has some effect on t2 bpc's you get from invention.
PS: 10:1 reduction may be a liitle to easy for most mods, ammo and some other easily researchable stuff. On the other end bs bpos with me50+ ... hellof alot of time.
maybe divide bpos by time needed to research them and give them different reductions.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.02.14 10:57:00 -
[26]
i hope they dont bring back the BPO lottery.
im into invention and im makeing 200-300 mil proffit a week whit little to no effort at all.
the expencive datacore come from my own R&D agents and cheaper ones... are cheap :P
whit that kind of proffit i can easily sustain my expencive PvP needs (faction fit comandships and so on)
most ppl who become multi billionaires over night dont even know what to do whit that isk and just make guys like me richer :P
PS. yes iv won a t2 bpo... like a week before the closeing :) it was a very cheap bpo and i sold it for a bil.
invention is quite nice. i have my own high sec pos, i make around 200 T2 BPC a week (lots of different modules). i dont feel like im fighting really hard against the t2 bpo owners.... proffit is very good, just have to pick the right mods and sell them at the right place (not allways Jita).
atm Jita is one of the ways to get really rich fast if you know what you are doing
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This is Me |
Uncle Mo
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Posted - 2008.02.19 10:49:00 -
[27]
Just add a slight chance to receive a T2 BPO during invention. The market needs to be not necessarily flooded, but diluted some. One guy with all the good T2 BPO's stinks.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.19 12:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Uncle Mo
Just add a slight chance to receive a T2 BPO during invention. The market needs to be not necessarily flooded, but diluted some. One guy with all the good T2 BPO's stinks.
Pratically any chance of a T2 BPO from inventing from a BPC is too much. And it will give problem as people will start protesting "Alliance A has got 3 BPO through invention, us none, cheaters" as usual.
It T2 BPO should be inventable, it must be starting from T1 BPO, at a big cost and long research. (dig in this forum, you can see a fairly detailed description of my suggestion)
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Artmedis Valben
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2008.02.19 13:00:00 -
[29]
T2 BPOs are not a problem at all.
Hot in demand T2 items with limited competition from T2 BPOs being produced from around the clock are still the most profitable invention items. Much better profits than invention only items with low demand.
And if there were no T2 BPOs for items not worth inventing, these would simply not be available. In many regions no one sells T2 repair bots or T2 Sentry drones, because of the low demand.
The new invention only ships are not the most profitable ships to invent.
Selling: PERFECT PRINTS
T2 SHIPS |
Hohne
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.19 14:08:00 -
[30]
I have 3 T2 BPOs that I just don't build off, because they are not very popular items and sell for <10% profit, so my time is actually better spent building off invented BPCs of popular items.
Eventually datacore prices will drop to the extent that invented stuff will only be 5-20% more to make, and that's not really a big deal. The only bottleneck anywhere on T2 items now is decryptors and more importantly moon materials, which have a limited supply. The extra ME we can get on invented items now makes competing in that regard quite doable, and datacores are cheap enough. The only BPOs that likely still have even reasonable profits would be ships.
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