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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ok, so the three things I'm seeing repeatedly are:
* Drones picking their own targets/going idle (based on aggressive/passive setting I'm assuming) after a fairly consistent delay once you've issued a command * Drones failing to focus fire * Drones catching a fast target, dropping to normal speed and immediately getting left behind
Am I missing something or are those the major problems?
Wa'roun wrote:Another OMG...How about actually playing the game and see? It doesn't take long to see the crap we have endured for years, and even more intensely now since Incarna.
I shouldn't have to keep my finger on my Drones Attack key all the time.
I mainly fly Amarr, we don't usually get a whole lot of drones |
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Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Ok, so the three things I'm seeing repeatedly are: * Drones picking their own targets/going idle (based on aggressive/passive setting I'm assuming) after a fairly consistent delay once you've issued a command * Drones failing to focus fire * Drones catching a fast target, dropping to normal speed and immediately getting left behind Am I missing something or are those the major problems? Wa'roun wrote:Another OMG...How about actually playing the game and see? It doesn't take long to see the crap we have endured for years, and even more intensely now since Incarna.
I shouldn't have to keep my finger on my Drones Attack key all the time. I mainly fly Amarr, we don't usually get a whole lot of drones
And this. Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
What sort of rats is this happening with? Drones shouldn't be selecting targets until you're actually fired upon (red box rather than yellow box). |
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Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:What sort of rats is this happening with? Drones shouldn't be selecting targets until you're actually fired upon (red box rather than yellow box).
Last times it happened was in all sorts of L3-L4 Gallente space missions. Haven't bothered take notes since I thought "this must be one of those known issues that will be fixed SoonGäó". Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
8
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Posted - 2011.09.23 18:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
Is it OK for drones which are set to passive, and to assist another player, to suddenly stop assisting the other player and start shooting at random rats who are aggroing their mother-ship?
And for drones who are set to aggressive and to focus-fire to divide and attack more than one target? |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
132
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Posted - 2011.09.23 19:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Ok, so the three things I'm seeing repeatedly are:
* Drones picking their own targets/going idle (based on aggressive/passive setting I'm assuming) after a fairly consistent delay once you've issued a command * Drones failing to focus fire * Drones catching a fast target, dropping to normal speed and immediately getting left behind
Am I missing something or are those the major problems?
There is really only one problem and it is some drones going idle.
Drones picking their own targets is result of some drones going idle. Drones failing to focus fire is result of some drones going idle and picking their own targets after this. Drones catching a fast target, dropping to normal speed and immediately getting left behind is rather normal behauviour as far as I am aware. If the drones drop from orbit, they have to catch the target again. If drones manage to go idle during this, at least the speed isn't the trigger. It could still happen for the same reason than in all the other cases. This is why I would ignore "fast targets" from this entire issue as not being relevant.
The reason why some drones are going idle is unknown, but Mr Hellcat here may be close to the cause:
Mr Hellcat wrote:It appears that while doing a mission drones become confused as to what target they are tracking.
For example, if a target is destroyed, or I issue a new attack order on a different target. All five drones will respond and approach the new target to get into firing range. Sometimes between 1 to 5 drones will drop out of attack mode.
What I think is happening is that, some of the drones are still in coldown on their turrets. So when the drone comes out of cool down the turrets are still looking at the old target, even though a new target was specified. The turrets attempt to fire at the old target, which no longer exists. So no target, a stop order is issued by the server and the drones go into a ready state.
So 5 drones are attacking target, 3 have just fired weapons and popped the target, I issue a new attack order, all five drones respond. As drones head into range on new target, 3 come out of turret cool down and realize the target no longer exists. This is interperted as the new target no longer exists, those three go into standby, the other two continue on to attacking new target. Or those three may travel back and attack the old target if it stil exists if I issued a new target while they are in turret cooldown.
That is how it appears to me.
In other words some drones have their previous cycle (mining, shooting) still rolling when they move or are ordered to new target. When this cycle ends, drone notices that the target it was aiming is dead/depleted. Drone goes idle and does what it is supposed to _on its own_ after this.
If this estimation is correct, there is bug on code which assigns new target to drones, removes old one from their brain and stops the current cycles they are working on when target dies/depletes/changes
This is the best I can do to explain. Trying it really tells everything. It is so easy to reproduce even while doing missions or mining. Using passive combat drones gives most clear results as passive drones don't automaticly engage new enemy after going idle. Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Svaste
Deadly Alliance Corporation
8
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Posted - 2011.09.25 15:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason Senior Producer of EVE Online
I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality. |
COMM4NDER
Umbrella Holding Inc Umbrella Chemical Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 04:23:00 -
[68] - Quote
Svaste wrote:"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason Senior Producer of EVE Online
I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality.
Wheels are in motion and then I got deported back to India. Your a verry bad man Verry bad man. |
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension
64
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Posted - 2011.09.26 06:29:00 -
[69] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Alot fo very relevant stuff I think its more an issue of the drones descision making being given priority over ours, or perhaps equal priority. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but they tend to remember the target they chose for themselves when you give them orders after they attack something. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Aelana Anais
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.09.26 14:26:00 -
[70] - Quote
Svaste wrote:"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason Senior Producer of EVE Online
I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality.
Most/All of the stuff mentioned in this thread were broken pre-Incarna, the only thing that changed is the frequency.
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Svaste
Deadly Alliance Corporation
8
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Posted - 2011.09.26 15:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
Aelana Anais wrote:Svaste wrote:"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason Senior Producer of EVE Online
I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality. Most/All of the stuff mentioned in this thread were broken pre-Incarna, the only thing that changed is the frequency.
No. |
Aelana Anais
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.09.26 18:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
Svaste wrote:Aelana Anais wrote:Svaste wrote:"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason Senior Producer of EVE Online
I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality. Most/All of the stuff mentioned in this thread were broken pre-Incarna, the only thing that changed is the frequency. No.
I personally have experienced most of the behavior described pre-incarna so.... Yes. |
Lieyan Electra
DutchDemons
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 11:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
Client Update 4 To be released September 27, 2011
Modules
Fixed an issue that prevented modules from being unfitted in space using a ship maintenance array by dropping them onto the cargo icon on the fitting screen.
How bout this drone issue CCP?????????? again not a word..... |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.09.27 18:57:00 -
[74] - Quote
Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :( |
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Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
132
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Posted - 2011.09.27 19:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(
It's good to hear someone is poking it though. Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |
Aelana Anais
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.09.27 19:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(
Would it help if I reproduced it and FRAPSed it?
Also were you using keyboard to switch targets or mouse... it seems to happen for me only when using keyboard shortcut. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
25
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Posted - 2011.09.27 19:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(
Try the following:
Have two clients open. Set both to "Fixed window" mode and your native screen resolution (so that they take the full screen).
On one client, have an Armageddon deploy Curator I's on agressive mode, focus fire and "attack and follow" (thats for fighters, but heh). On the other client, have a dominix deploy Curator II's and assist it to the Armageddon.
Then return to the armageddon and manually order them to attack targets with the keyboard shortcut. Btw, change the default shortcut key to something like "Z". Shoot anomaly rats in that setup.
I'm not saying that this is the specific scenario where this issue happens, but it happens to me on a daily basis on that setup. By the way, when i tell the agressive drones to attack a target, and they proceed to attack that target, then decide to switch again they don't switch randomly. They always go back to the same rat they were shooting before. Perhaps the highest damage dealer?
One thing is important though. IT HAS TO BE ON FIXED WINDOW MODE. Both clients. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Aelana Anais
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.09.27 22:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote: One thing is important though. IT HAS TO BE ON FIXED WINDOW MODE. Both clients.
Neat. I too am set up like this. I never thought it might be based on graphics settings. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
167
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Posted - 2011.09.27 23:18:00 -
[79] - Quote
Yea playing in window mode also but not "fixed window"...
Anyways looks like we gotta start doing some fraps collections... I will see if I have time in weekend... to make special drones go idle remix....
Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Bienator II
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
152
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Posted - 2011.09.28 12:07:00 -
[80] - Quote
i am playing full screen and it happened to me several times also. I am now pressing F multiple times to be sure to "overwrite" the misbehaviour with the order.
Quite effective workaround for almost everything in eve (jumping, warping, docking etc). If you really want something to happen, press it multiple times.
@CCP Greyscale without knowing the code (obviously): this all sounds like a concurrency issue where the "receive player order" action isn't processed for all drones in a critical section. A race condition between game mechanics (agress next target) and the player action. You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
7
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Posted - 2011.09.28 12:47:00 -
[81] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote: Try the following:
Have two clients open. Set both to "Fixed window" mode and your native screen resolution (so that they take the full screen).
I'm not sure if it's directly related but it might.
I usually use 2 clients in fixed window, one on each machine and ID (or Synergy+) to share mouse and keyboard between them.
And I often get more less strange or delayed (mainly UI) stuff happening on the monitor not having focus.
I haven't coded much GUI stuff on windows so I don't know what happens codewise when a window lose focus but it obvious that something odd happens.
One simple example is the overview not updating (at least sorting) stuff on the 'passive' monitor. But as soon as I move the mouse over to that monitor, the overview sorts itself within a second.
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Kryz Terriq
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.28 17:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
this happens also with pos-shooting
my case:
- fixed window mode
- single client (windows 7)
- in fleet, with a maelstrom
- at enemy pos in shooting range, lets say 30 to 50 km from the tower
- deploy sentries (bouncer II) (ship has stopped, 0 speed)
- let sentries engage the tower (right click, engage target, too lazy for shortcut)
- wait until its reinforced (you probably dont have to wait, but i did follow orders )
- let sentries engage a gun/warp disruptor/whatever pos module outside shield (right click, engage)
- now watch what your drones do (mostly following your command for a short time and than do something else - on undefended pos mostly going idle)
may not happen all the time, but it was always like this when i paid attention
i will check if this can be easily repeated on sisi the next days or maybe i am in luck and have another boring pos shooty |
COMM4NDER
Umbrella Holding Inc Umbrella Chemical Inc
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 10:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
This happens for me when doing incursions or missions. Assist drones on someone or just attack a sansha ship in incursion. 50% of the time all drones go to attack but then 2 goes to idle and starts to orbit my ship.
Fixed window mode, 1 client windows 7.
Devs, go play incursion in live server for a few minutes to hours and you will se how many bugs you shal find. It is almost impressive that many bugs are still present. |
Aelana Anais
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.09.29 13:05:00 -
[84] - Quote
Another idea for helping track this down... isn't this exactly the type of situation that a structured (or mass) test on singularity might help? I.E. get a bunch of folks together with devs watching and debugging reproducing the error? |
COMM4NDER
Umbrella Holding Inc Umbrella Chemical Inc
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
Aelana Anais wrote:Another idea for helping track this down... isn't this exactly the type of situation that a structured (or mass) test on singularity might help? I.E. get a bunch of folks together with devs watching and debugging reproducing the error?
Going on a incursion streak today with the logserver on hopefully something will show other the mass of unneeded information. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
177
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Posted - 2011.09.29 21:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Ok here is commented video about drone bug and pretty good explanation how drones cycle time is related to the bug.
Now fix it :) Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
43
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Posted - 2011.09.30 01:05:00 -
[87] - Quote
I also tend to belive it has something to do with their cycle time.
Do drones have something resembling a "Ok, target is dead, switch targets" routine that runs when they're on agressive?
It might happen that when they are on agressive and i see that their target exploded and i immediatly issue an order for them to attack someone else, that the "Player command: attack target X" happens before the "Ok, target is dead, switch targets" routine kicks in which might explain why they tend to switch targets even before being given a direct order to attack someone else.
Also might explain why this happens with drones that are assiting somebody else but are also on agressive. Their assisted ship takes offensive action against another ship before the "target dead, switch" routine kicks in.
Lag might be causing them to run that routine a long time after the original target has been killed.
Just wild internet speculation though, since i don't even know if this is how they are programmed. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
177
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Posted - 2011.09.30 11:27:00 -
[88] - Quote
to simplify - following code is missing from the system:
drone: I didn't cause it but my target just died/depleted/vanished -> reset my cycle and enter ready for new target mode.
This is missing and it is what causes the bug. Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.02 09:33:00 -
[89] - Quote
Another thing with drones ive noticed is sometimes they will for no reason what so ever go off to attack a group of rats thats just sitting there , not attacking me or the drones and once they get it in there head to attack it the only way to stop them heading that way each time they kill a rat that is aggressing you is to call your drones back into you bay.
this is noticable when you have flying drones, i suspect there is also a simmiler issure with sentry drones that might be the reason why random packs agress the drones only. |
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
3
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Posted - 2011.10.02 19:02:00 -
[90] - Quote
I've just lost a drone which went rogue. I tried calling it back but it refused to do anything other than stand Idle.
This happened at the same time, when the distances on my Overview were horrbly wrong and were puting up random values.
The overview in this case said that the enemy npc were chasing me (I was trying to kite them in a drake) at about 60kms and then they suddenly rubber-banded to 200km+. At the same time I was unable to control the drone even though commands were being sent to it. |
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