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Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
524
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Wall-of-text warning ... proceed at your own risk.
if you're not into numbers, patterns of numbers, or have a short-attention-span then you should stop now and go to the incursion-hating posts in C&P forums. This will not be a thread for you.
You have been warned ....
IDK if this observation is useful to anyone else ... but it has saved me some scanning time recently. I don't even know for sure that it's an actual pattern, but figured I'd throw it up here for y'all to think about. Perhaps I just spend too much time scanning and am starting to 'see' patterns where none exist. Yeah, and I like numbers and their patterns anyways :-)
Since noticing this I have managed some pretty major reductions in my system scanning times. Rather than rescanning previous BMs to confirm locations I am now increasingly just scanning the few new sigs ... because I can identify which ones are new from their number-plates, whether they're in-sequence or not.
Start situation
If you scan a w-system where nothing new has spawned since DT you will have a semi-consecutive series of 'number-plates'. For example those locations may be something like: ABC-NNN ... Ladar cosmic signature type-X; BBC-NNN ... Your static wormhole; CBC-NNN ... Cosmic Anomaly type-Y; DBC-NNN ... Radar cosmic signature type-Z. (Where 'NNN' can be pretty much any string of three digits)
After next DT - Option 1
If you wait 24-hours, over the next DT, and nothing despawns and nothing new spawns, you will have something like this: DYZ-NNN ... Ladar cosmic signature type-X; EYZ-NNN ... Your static wormhole; FYZ-NNN ... Cosmic Anomaly type-Y; GYZ-NNN ... Radar cosmic signature type-Z. (Where 'NNN' can be pretty much any string of three digits, usually not the same digits as in previous example)
The pattern / observation here is that the new number-plates will be in the same alphabetical order as the previous bunch. So, without scanning further, you know that DYZ-NNN is the same Ladar location as ABC-NNN.
After next DT - Option 2
If after that next DT you have five sites, they will have number-plates in one of two orders.
DYZ-NNN ... Ladar cosmic signature type-X; EYZ-NNN ... Your static wormhole; FYZ-NNN ... Cosmic Anomaly type-Y; GYZ-NNN ... Radar cosmic signature type-Z; HYZ-NNN ... Cosmic Anomaly type-W.
or
DYZ-NNN ... Ladar cosmic signature type-X; EYZ-NNN ... Your static wormhole; FYZ-NNN ... Cosmic Anomaly type-Y; GYZ-NNN ... Radar cosmic signature type-Z; LMN-NNN ... Cosmic Anomaly type-W.
In the first of these the 'type-W' anom spawned prior to that last DT and has been incorporated into the sequential numbering pattern for the system at DT. In the second of these examples the 'type-W' anom has spawned after the last DT and so has been allocated an out-of-sequence numberplate.
Note, in the first example here, that the numberplates have kept their same alphabetical order with the new site being tacked on at the end. If you're stocktaking your system here you only need to scan-down the new site and, even after DT, you know which one it is. You only need to scan down HYZ to complete a stocktake of your system.
In the second example here, it's much more obvious. The new site has an out-of-sequence number-plate and all the others are still there, in the same alphabetical order. Again, you only need to scan down LMN to complete the stocktake of your system.
More complicated systems
I've been in systems with many sites and they have two or three alphanumeric number-plate sequences: ABC-NNN => ZBC-NNN; SYZ-NNN => ZYZ-NNN; and XMN-NNN => ZMN-NNN. I've not watched their changes with time but suspect that much the same happens.
Hypotheses
The alphanumeric number-plates, applied to cosmic anomalies and signatures, are allocated in an alphabetically 'sequential' pattern at DT. The oldest sites* are allocated the closest-to-AAA number-plate and the rest follow in chronological order. Sites that spawn after DT are allocated an out-of-sequence number-plate, depending on where the database is up to at the time they spawn. Those sites are brought into sequence at the next DT.
Go for it. Shoot me down, lolwut the time wasting number cruncher, add to these observations, completely disprove them ... whatever, I offer this information for your entertainment and eve advancement :-)
* I may have this one reversed with older being closer to ZZZ, but you get the idea. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.02.15 23:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have not paid this much attention to the way they now do the sig tagging. But I can say that they have made it easier for us to get our static out as it normally spawns a few hours after DT and it will be the only sig out of sequence, well most times anyway, sometimes we get a new sig(ladar, grav, etc) too. Obviously this only works if we, or someone else, doesn't close it and mess with the timings. We will only close the wh if our wh or the static next door has no anoms for us to plunder That said, we normally don't have many sig's around for long as we run/mine them pretty quickly. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
632
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Posted - 2012.02.15 23:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Question: Are you always dropping your probes from the same spot? I'm theorizing that if you're always dropping probes from the same spot, and you have your probing window sorted by Strength (which I do to keep all the un-probed sigs at the top, but IDK what others do), maybe the sigs are in the same order because of their respective strengths (even when the difference is too small to be seen in the two significant digits, it might be looking at the float value instead).
As to the similar names, that sounds like an extension of the bug/feature that was around post-crucible for a while where sigs that stayed in a system over DT would have predictable names. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
524
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Posted - 2012.02.15 23:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sig-strength is not an issue for this discussion. I have made no observation that suggests that sig-strength in any way influences what alphanumeric numberplate is allocated to a sig/anom.
Like drdixie I tend not to have an awful lot of sites, but sometimes they stackup to a dozen or more ... and this does seem to save me a heap of scanning time.
I use the column headers to sort, depending on what I am doing. When I want to note the details I will usually sort by number-plate. When I want to stocktake anoms to run first I sort by type. When I am actively scanning down sites I usually sort by strength so the next easiest one is there waiting for me.
as for the sequential number-plates being a bug/feature ... I'm just trying to point out how that 'feature' can be employed to save us timne spent scanning. Assuming there's some merit to my observation and subsequent postulates. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
632
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Posted - 2012.02.16 00:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote:as for the sequential number-plates being a bug/feature ... I'm just trying to point out how that 'feature' can be employed to save us timne spent scanning. Assuming there's some merit to my observation and subsequent postulates.
Well, in the shortly-post-Crucible days, the fact that all sigs spawned pre-DT had similar IDs could be used to target the more valuable sites. Since WH, Grav, Ladar, and some Radar/Mag sites would get ignored due to less desirability, the non-ordered IDs would contain more valuable sites, such as combat sites, more often than not (because they are run and respawn more quickly than others).
Now, I don't know how this could be used in a WH, but I do know that it was handy when it was happening with k-space sigs and you were looking for the shiny new 3/10s and 4/10s. |
Bibosikus
Inside out. The G0dfathers
41
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Posted - 2012.02.16 00:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
mxzf wrote:...
Now, I don't know how this could be used in a WH, but I do know that it was handy when it was happening with k-space sigs and you were looking for the shiny new 3/10s and 4/10s.
SSSH! The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
439
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 00:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sounds feasible if you are that determined but I'm fairly certain this is simply an extrapolation of that bug that was introduced recently. A bug that was identified by CCP but has obviously yet to be fixed.
Enjoy it while you can I guess. Actually you probably needn't worry about it getting "fixed" any time soon given CCP's track record with minor bug fixes. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
524
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 00:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
absolutely!
I am not sure how much benefit or mileage ppl can make of this. It does save me a fair bit of stocktake scanning ... the bane of any w-space resident's life ... so I like it. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
38
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 09:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Sounds feasible if you are that determined but I'm fairly certain this is simply an extrapolation of that bug that was introduced recently. A bug that was identified by CCP but has obviously yet to be fixed.
Enjoy it while you can I guess. Actually you probably needn't worry about it getting "fixed" any time soon given CCP's track record with minor bug fixes.
Yeah when was it - Crucible? IIRC they said the fixed it and for a while it looked like it, but i have been noticing those patterns pop up (again?) lately, too.
Many people probably see this as a 'feature' (same as "hey angels do not have a 6/10, so a-types in 4/10 are okay"), but seeing how easy scanning already is those patterns in the IDs are just wrong. |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
459
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 12:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Sounds feasible if you are that determined but I'm fairly certain this is simply an extrapolation of that bug that was introduced recently. A bug that was identified by CCP but has obviously yet to be fixed.
Enjoy it while you can I guess. Actually you probably needn't worry about it getting "fixed" any time soon given CCP's track record with minor bug fixes.
B-but they locked the gates in my Gurista 5/10s :((( |
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Eikelhaven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
0
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Posted - 2012.02.16 19:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
The new sig ID behavior patterns have been confirmed by CCP and are apparently not a bug that will be fixed, from a CCP Dev in a wormhole topic in General Discussion:
CCP Greyscale wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Oxandrolone wrote:
Sig id's are obviously broken, if they all spawn at the same time (ie after server restart) they all end in the same letter, eg
DEA FEA ECA GCA LPA OPA
so when a new sig spawns (usually a wh) its so easy to spot, this makes it very easy to scan wh chains in a hurry but its not working as intended obviously.
Issues like this generally indicate that a PRNG is not being seeded properly. It's not supposed to be random any more
http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64131&p=3 |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
529
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 21:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
As far as this particular w-space scanner is concerned, that is good news.
Now I just hope that all those greater-minds-than-mine out there can identify ways to further capitalise on these features and make our arduous w-space lives simpler ... and more profitable
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
440
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 22:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well thats a stupid feature. |
Svodola Darkfury
Hellstorm Inc
4
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Posted - 2012.02.17 03:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
This was actually an unintended change since the most recent expansion.
They plan on changing it in the future so that signature IDs are NOT in fact so close to each other.
It is nice though because if everything is ABC, BBC, CBC and so on you can pick out the new signatures when they spawn as ZZZ or some such.
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Mnemosyne Gloob
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
38
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Posted - 2012.02.17 08:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
a feature huh? lets just make complexes static again... |
Roime
UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
213
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Posted - 2012.02.17 10:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sort of counter-intuitive from a w-space inhabitant, but I don't like this feature at all.
Bring the random back!
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Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 22:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Roime wrote:Sort of counter-intuitive from a w-space inhabitant, but I don't like this feature at all.
Bring the random back!
I have to agree with this. It's been convenient, but it sure does feel like the system has been dumbed down rather than simply cleaned of unnecessarily annoying elements. In wormholes, even the smallest signature that can appear in w-space can be scanned down by a character with terrible scanning skills. I'm against making things too complicated for no reason whatsoever, but really, at this point you might as well just start putting up beacons for sites on the overview. If you can't be bothered with something as easy and minor as scanning for sigs in wormholes without having your hand held by various easymode game mechanics, gtfo, time to take a break from wormhole living and all of its aspects. L4's are nice and predictable, try those. |
Tabernack en Chasteaux
W.A.S.P Sons of Sylph
39
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 22:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ajita al Tchar wrote:In wormholes, even the smallest signature that can appear in w-space can be scanned down by a character with terrible scanning skills.
Every other profession requires a certain amount of skilling that serves as a barrier to entry, on a sliding scale of profitablility. Where's ours? |
Elisa Fir
Luminoctis
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 13:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tabernack en Chasteaux wrote:Ajita al Tchar wrote:In wormholes, even the smallest signature that can appear in w-space can be scanned down by a character with terrible scanning skills. Every other profession requires a certain amount of skilling that serves as a barrier to entry, on a sliding scale of profitablility. Where's ours? This ^^
In combination with using 8 probes for detemining reported signal strength instead of 4 (+/-15% increase in reported signal strength) and the boost to the Sisters Probe Launcher from 5% to 10% (4.76% increase in overall Base Scan Strength) has made it significantly more easy (and faster) to get signatures 100% signal strength.
Right now, exploration has been reduced to 'press the find button'.
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Amthala
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
6
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Posted - 2012.02.18 14:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ive been in whs for a very long time and these sort of things come up all the time. this is very similar to the argument for usign a deep space probe to narrow down sigs you are after but tbh, ive always found that the best solution to any sort of probing is to just get good at it. and by good i dont just mean being able to probe any sig, any idiot can do that, i mean actually knowing how to setup probes and having the right skills and equipment for it. if you want to be good at probing, learn how to do it. talk to probers you see that are better than you about how they do it. (be aware that many won't tell you.) don't rely on a crappy bug, that will hopefully be fixed, to make your life easier.
as an example, i fully probed a 52 sig system with my maxed out prober on friday in ~13minuts. here's what my first scan looked like:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3103/20120217114132.jpg
there is also a 100% ladar up higher for a total of 19 IDd sigs in 1 scan. personal best for me.
tl;dr: lrn2probe
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Elisa Fir
Luminoctis
5
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Posted - 2012.02.18 14:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think you might have misinterpeted the point of my post, or rather highlighted it:
Amthala wrote:(...) as an example, i fully probed a 52 sig system with my maxed out prober on friday in ~13minuts. here's what my first scan looked like: (...)
I'm not complaining I can't probe nor relying on a bug* to make my life easier; I'm saying probing/exploration has become way too easy.
*) The bug has more or less been confirmed by CCP Greyscale as intentional behaviour: "[signature IDs are] not supposed to be random any more". [source] |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
441
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 23:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Amthala wrote:as an example, i fully probed a 52 sig system with my maxed out prober on friday in ~13minuts. here's what my first scan looked like: http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3103/20120217114132.jpgthere is also a 100% ladar up higher for a total of 19 IDd sigs in 1 scan. personal best for me. tl;dr: lrn2probe
To the inexperienced that may seem impressive.
In reality, none of those are to 100% and truth be told, most gravs and ladars in wh space have high base sig strengths making them trivial to scan.
But nice attempt at gloating I guess? |
Amthala
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
6
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Posted - 2012.02.19 03:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Amthala wrote:as an example, i fully probed a 52 sig system with my maxed out prober on friday in ~13minuts. here's what my first scan looked like: http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3103/20120217114132.jpgthere is also a 100% ladar up higher for a total of 19 IDd sigs in 1 scan. personal best for me. tl;dr: lrn2probe To the inexperienced that may seem impressive. In reality, none of those are to 100% and truth be told, most gravs and ladars in wh space have high base sig strengths making them trivial to scan. But nice attempt at gloating I guess?
why the hell would i want to probe a grav/ladar to 100%? in WHs you only need to BM WHs, of which there were 5 in that system. (maybe mags/rads if youre after pve.)
as to the original point, making the sig IDs so easily identifiable is a terrible thing. all it does is dumb down WHs which totally defeats the point of WHs. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 04:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
you missed my point, clearly
you stated that you "probed 51 sigs down in w.e. minutes" as if it was some great skill that allowed you to do so
it wasn't |
Amthala
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
6
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Posted - 2012.02.19 06:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:you missed my point, clearly
you stated that you "probed 51 sigs down in w.e. minutes" as if it was some great skill that allowed you to do so
it wasn't
ok buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night :) |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 15:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
i feel like you're projecting now....as its you that apparently needs to believe that you are an "elite" prober in order to sleep at night |
Elisa Fir
Luminoctis
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 17:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
shall we get back on topic? |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 18:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
no |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
532
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 20:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
You know a forum thread has been turned to excrement once Salazar starts posting in it. Oh well :-(
____________
Emperor Salazar = XXSketchxx = veteran troll, wont to name calling and similar shenanigans if anyone disagrees with him.
Best left alone under his bridge wallowing in his own droppings, otherwise you spend a lot of time cleaning the smelly sticky stuff off of your boots. Some people prefer to report his many inappropriate, off-topic, and derogatory postings.
Unfortunately many people get lulled into his game and end up feeding the troll. Then we all get splattered with his excrement.
_____________________
As for my original posting observation ... it seems the timing of a site's original spawning does not influence the number-plate allocation.
But be it 'feature' or 'dumbing down' or whatever, like it or love it, it does make my w-space scanning much much easier. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
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ISD Kreul Intentions
Community Communications Liaisons
0
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Posted - 2012.02.20 13:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Off topic postings have been removed. Thread ready for more constructive posting.
Thank you. Kreul Intentions Kreul Intentions Community Communication Liason (CCL) Interstellar Services Department |
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