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The old 8 million ISK to avoid war decs, still going on, still no word

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Author	Topic
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.25 00:18:00 - [211] Edited by: Ernesto Hoost on 25/02/2008 00:21:02 Originally by: Exlegion You won't offend me by calling me a "carebear", "noob", "***", "fluffy", "*****", "wuz", etc. You'll have to be more creative and intelligent. HINT: I don't think that skills playing video games or pressing a bunch of keys on a keyboard defines anyone. As for defining grief. A corp that insists in continuing to war dec another corp even after they continue to bail out is pretty much grief and an unhealthy obsession. Seems like I have offended you already Make sure you tick that pvp flag off box, wouldn't want anyone to be able to shoot your precious ship would we Hydra must be proud of you.
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 00:26:00 - [212] Originally by: Ernesto Hoost Seems like I have offended you already Make sure you tick that pvp flag off box, wouldn't want anyone to be able to shoot your precious ship would we Hydra must be proud of you. No, my man, you haven't yet. But seriously, why the hate? Why not try seeking players you can have fun with rather than waste your time and consume your anger on someone that's avoiding you at all costs? What is it with this obsession? Help me understand, brother . One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.25 01:18:00 - [213] lolhydra
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2008.02.25 01:52:00 - [214] quote = Exlegion As for defining grief. A corp that insists in continuing to war dec another corp ... even though it will always cost them more than the corp they are dec'ing, or, if the wardec'ing corp cannot afford this extra cost, to force the griefer to create a new corp, despite the fact that that a basic principle of the game is that you aren't safe anywhere, and that if you enjoy the benefits of being in a corp then you accept the risks of being wardec'ed ...after they continue to bail out is pretty much grief and an unhealthy obsession. /quote I fixed it. Coming soon to an Eve new player's guide: "If you don't like war, but still want to be in a corp, it's now possible to make the griefer's corp either pay a 2m fee that you don't have to pay, or quit his corp to form a new corp in order to avoid paying that extra 2m that you don't have to pay. Either way, it's an inconvenience most griefers can't be bothered with, so fill your boots! This tactic is especially useful if you have lots of low-paid labour and make nice margins on selling ISK on ebay or other sites, since your noob characters have nothing to lose by continually changing corps. Here's how you do it, simply make 4 corps ..." and so on.
coffeecigarettebeer	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:11:00 - [215] Originally by: Grindewald Edited by: Grindewald on 24/02/2008 21:58:03 Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer No. The whiners didnt win this time. CCP ruled this tactic legal. The whiners lost. Remember who started this thread and who petitioned CCP. And still, with all theese comments of yours, you come out as the whiner of this entire thread.. No. Im sorry none of my comments qualify me as a whiner. If you look at some of the other posts in this thread however...
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:15:00 - [216] Posting in an epic whine thread. ------------ Originally by: Praxis1452 you win eve
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles V.I.R.A.L.	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:30:00 - [217] Edited by: ViolenTUK on 25/02/2008 08:31:11 Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Originally by: Grindewald Edited by: Grindewald on 24/02/2008 21:58:03 Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer No. The whiners didnt win this time. CCP ruled this tactic legal. The whiners lost. Remember who started this thread and who petitioned CCP. And still, with all theese comments of yours, you come out as the whiner of this entire thread.. No. Im sorry none of my comments qualify me as a whiner. If you look at some of the other posts in this thread however... I understand what you mean as pirates often qualify as the greatest whiners although TRAPS handled this issue with an objective attitude particularly since ccp havenÆt been forthcoming with any real explanation as to their decision. I donÆt think any further contribution I can make will be able to assist in an area of game mechanics that may be in need of some revision. I can sympathize with traps continuing to war declare the target corp. but I only hope they wont have to respond to a harassment petition from members of the target corporation. www.eve-players.com
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:46:00 - [218] We petitioned this in 2004. It was not an exploit then and it still isn't. New video: Pride, Honor & Retribution
Bhodistafa Gallente Amen Anera	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:58:00 - [219] Edited by: Bhodistafa on 25/02/2008 08:59:38 Originally by: Old cylon onboard ancient baseship at the ending to the in-between season cliffhanger This will be repeated, again and again and again.... Deja vu ain't what it used to be, eh Mitch?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.02.25 09:22:00 - [220] FISSION MAILED

Kassaia	Posted - 2008.02.25 09:44:00 - [221] There is only a single question to be answered here: Is it, or is it not intended for a player corp to be able to permanently avoid all wars like the OP describes? Now, based on the fact that declaring a war does not require the consent of the attacked corp, it seems to me that the answer is no, it is not intended to be possible to avoid a war, because otherwise war declarations would require a mutual agreement. And if it is not intended to be possible to avoid a war like that, yet there is some way to do so regardless, then by definition that 'some way' would be an exploit. What should be done: 1) If CCP holds true to the (to me)obvious intent of wars being declared without mutual agreement, they should make sure there are not any ways to circumvent that intent. 2) If CCP's stance is that it SHOULD be possible for a player corp to avoid wars(for whatever reason), then they should allow player corps to flag themselves as non-PVP, and save them the hassle of having to bunny hop through corps to achieve the desired result.
Aslovi Caldari Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:30:00 - [222] Ok this is bugging me now. Still no reply from CCP so I thought what the hell I'll try and play them at there own game. You have to understand that allaince game mechanic's isn't something I've ever really considered, but knowing that when we dec a corp and they join an allaince for protection we get the war with them too. So I create an alt corp name it something like "damn coirp jumping war avioding monkies" and promptly go and dec 3 of there alt corps. Now I'm thinking join that corp into REPO and hey we got them all dec'd without the stupid war fee's reaching 500mill per week each. this I thought would be the best way to handle them, thinking that everytime they created 3 new corps i'd just keep doing the same with another alt (I have a few accounts so lots of alts free). But whats this? "NO" you can't join an alliance whilst YOU have dec'd someone else!!!!!!! So I take this to mean that CCP have decided to go the way of WoW and other not so great online games, why not cut the crap and add "right-click" to pvp. And in answer to the guy that said about us fullfilling the contract if the client was no longer dec'd, well the client wants a little payback there SHOULD always be consequences to your actions even in a fictional world like EvE. Aslovi IMAGE REMOVED!!!! :(
M'ing Pai The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.02.26 17:50:00 - [223] It's already started: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=713448&page=1 Epic fail.
Xofii	Posted - 2008.02.26 18:15:00 - [224] I surely hope that this is banned an exploit. Goes against everything that wardecs are supposed to be and clearly violates the intention of the dec mechanics. Like all else in eve it wont be labeled an exploit until ppl start doing it on a massive scale though :( CCP doesnt bother if its only one corp doing it. Seem like you should start multiple alt corps yourself and keep all of their corps decced just to spite them even though youll incurr a heavier isk penalty then them. //Xofii
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.26 18:32:00 - [225] Originally by: M'ing Pai It's already started: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=713448&page=1 Epic fail. Link fixed. And I'm really not worried about this war dec avoiding... honestly ------------ Originally by: Praxis1452 you win eve
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.26 21:11:00 - [226] Originally by: Aslovi Ok this is bugging me now. Still no reply from CCP so I thought what the hell I'll try and play them at there own game. You have to understand that allaince game mechanic's isn't something I've ever really considered, but knowing that when we dec a corp and they join an allaince for protection we get the war with them too. So I create an alt corp name it something like "damn coirp jumping war avioding monkies" and promptly go and dec 3 of there alt corps. Now I'm thinking join that corp into REPO and hey we got them all dec'd without the stupid war fee's reaching 500mill per week each. this I thought would be the best way to handle them, thinking that everytime they created 3 new corps i'd just keep doing the same with another alt (I have a few accounts so lots of alts free). But whats this? "NO" you can't join an alliance whilst YOU have dec'd someone else!!!!!!! So I take this to mean that CCP have decided to go the way of WoW and other not so great online games, why not cut the crap and add "right-click" to pvp. And in answer to the guy that said about us fullfilling the contract if the client was no longer dec'd, well the client wants a little payback there SHOULD always be consequences to your actions even in a fictional world like EvE. Aslovi If you decced someone, you can't join an alliance while that decc is active. If you got decced by someone you can join an alliance while that decc is active. Not sure about mutuals though.
Atham Koris	Posted - 2008.02.26 21:16:00 - [227] Edited by: Atham Koris on 26/02/2008 21:19:02 Edited by: Atham Koris on 26/02/2008 21:17:12 If you would like to get those guys off your back see this link: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=713448&page=2 will kill the wardec corp really quick
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.26 21:25:00 - [228] Originally by: Carebear Trader Originally by: Karentaki Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Mr Friendly What an odd thread. Don't want to be war decced? Stay in npc corps. Want the benefits of a player corp? Risk being 'decced. Like everything else in Eve, risk is supposed to be balanced with rewards. So, um... what risk exactly is the OP's corp taking here? Judging from how stupid the war targets seem to be, I doubt there's any risk, but if they were just a tiny bit smarter they might consider hiring a merc corp or something. I'm sure TRAPS would suffer a few losses then, and probably drop the dec. However, the war targets seem to prefer using dubious meta-tactics to avoid any kind of losses rather than actually either standing up for themselves, hiring mercs, or just running off to an NPC corp. If anyone here has visited TRAPS killboards, they'll notice for almost all the campaigns, the kill/loss ratio is really lopsided in favor of TRAPS. Mainly because most of their campaigns were against Roleplay/mining/industrial corps. I know nexa will say something like, 'look at those rich carebears isk farming and all flying battlships/faction gear etc...... but the point is she chooses those targets cos she knows they're usually **** poor at pvp and look good on the killboards. One of her campaigns last summer was against the Crimson Federation; after raking up many kills against them, the Crimson ceo basically booted all the industrial corps from his alliance and vowed to not surrender and continue the fight with the several remaining hardcore pvp corps. Of course within a few weeks, nexa called the war off, stating on the forums here it was due to 'lack of targets' lol. More likely she didn't like fighting people that were up for a fight. Afaik she still pursued all the soft targets ie. - former industrial member corps of the alliance and got surrender payments from most. Hmm looking at her personal stats 384 kills to 8 losses, 48:1 kill ration, does seem to indicate a lot of padding via industrial kills though. I visited it in the past, and have been actively reading it since TRAPS got it, and they did get spanked a few times. The fact that TRAPS won a lot of times is not because of their pvp prowess - they are few and not all online, but because they are willing to hunt the target even out of the region, they generally know how to fit a ship and fly it, and because they never give up. The fact that they never give up - basically the fact that nexa keeps the wardeccs on forever, has a hugely demoralizing effect on the target, even if they don't suffer that many losses. Add to this picking off 1-2 guys that are out missioning/ratting where they think they are safe, and it becomes a big downer for the corp. I am willing to bet that a corp that is very strong, has a good membership selection - kick out anyone not active for 3 weeks and have dedicated directors/ceo + contingency plans, will deffinitely give them a bloody nose. Ideally they would most hang out in the same constellation. This is not a quality that can be found in only pvp corps or only industry corps, this is a rare quality that can only be found in good managers.
Glassbil	Posted - 2008.02.26 22:16:00 - [229] Luckily there's an easy way to make it impossible for them, Or at the very least a lot more difficult, Create a second corp to wardec the fourth one, If they keep making more corps, well... For each one you make, They have to make four more just to avoid you. Hell, You could even create one corp for each just to keep war costs down, GMs can't really say creating extra corps and hopping between just to keep war costs down is an exploit if doing the same to avoid decs isn't.
Atham Koris	Posted - 2008.02.26 23:29:00 - [230] Originally by: Glassbil Luckily there's an easy way to make it impossible for them, Or at the very least a lot more difficult, Create a second corp to wardec the fourth one, If they keep making more corps, well... For each one you make, They have to make four more just to avoid you. Hell, You could even create one corp for each just to keep war costs down, GMs can't really say creating extra corps and hopping between just to keep war costs down is an exploit if doing the same to avoid decs isn't. yes this is true and read this post if you want to put traps out of business. http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=713448&page=2

Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.02.27 01:10:00 - [231] As people have pointed out, I have had my alts dec their alt corps. My beef would be is that it's costing me 40mil a week to keep them dec'd and its costing them 14mil a week to avoid. Thats basically making 7 alt corps to jump through. It's not a huge amount, but from the get-go I have always been told by GM's the reason the people can jump into new corps to avoid wars is because they have to pay a fee. We're allowed to dec each corp because that is part of the game as it was meant to be. They obviously aren't going to police the corp jumper's reasons for jumping, that's impossible. So basically, they pay a fee to run, we pay a fee to dec. I think it's quite obvious who is doing it in an exploitive manner. 20 jumps in 1 week between the same 4 corps? Again, that's not normal gameplay. That's not even eccentric game play. That's just wrong. As far as why TRAPS does so well is several of those reasons you mentioned. Anyone can easily beat us I am sure. We're no different than anyone else. We fly ships, we win, we die. To be honest the main reason we tend to win out is pure determination and a shared vision amongst corp members. Even when were outnumbered and we're camped non-stop, it doesn't bother us. It makes us work that much harder for a window of opportunity to score a kill, and it makes that kill so much more gratifying. As I've always told many of our opponents, I can't promise to win every fight, I can only promise that I will keep your corp dec'd for months if needed to get our point across. Win or lose though, TRAPS will never exploit, never cheat, scam, lie, or break our word. We will endure through the fire and flames. We will adapt to shenanigans like this. We will have fun.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.27 01:34:00 - [232] Always funny that people demand 1001 ways to creatively grief others, but when the people find 1 creative way to stop griefers they start whining that it is unrealistic and unfair and what not. How about removing insurance when Concord is involved in your ships destruction, and THEN we'll talk about this corphopping stuff?
Atham Koris	Posted - 2008.02.27 01:36:00 - [233] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Always funny that people demand 1001 ways to creatively grief others, but when the people find 1 creative way to stop griefers they start whining that it is unrealistic and unfair and what not. How about removing insurance when Concord is involved in your ships destruction, and THEN we'll talk about this corphopping stuff? I agree.
Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.02.27 02:23:00 - [234] Ok, first off, Id like to say that I think its a "Loop-hole" in the game mechs, But.... I really dont see what the big deal is about it, its only really a good getout of WAR card for small corps who dont have any fixed assets (ie no POS), and if they really wanted to, they could just all drop to NPC and create a password protected chat. In fact doing this is just more work. I understand totaly the OPers ire at the situation, but lets face it, anycorp with no pride in their name, and no fixed assets or long term production can easily avoid a war
delta phi Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.27 02:44:00 - [235] Edited by: delta phi on 27/02/2008 02:44:30 Originally by: Nexa Necis See my update, GM states it's fully legal. quote] hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaa!!!!!! shoot first, shoot second, shoot some more.shoot anyone asking stupid f***ing questions.
Damorris Laht	Posted - 2008.02.27 15:45:00 - [236] Are you out of your fricking mind? Hey lets petition anyone who stays in a station or goes to another system or heck why not petition them if they even get in a ship during a war. lol. You have seriously become the carebear who petitions the first time they think somethng is unfair in the game play. WAHHHHHH!!!! THEY WONT LET ME BLOW THEM UP. I'M TELLING!!!!! Ok so lets say they stayed in a corp you decced and they stayed in station during the whole war and you didnt get any kills? You get the same result. Are you going to pettition them then? I have had corps do everything from running to the other side of Eve, to hiding in stations to disolving their corps when I decced them. Big deal its the game mechanics. If you don't like the way the game is...go play WoW where cry babies prosper. I can't even believe you posted this here in the forums. I guess you don't see how utterly hilarious.
M'ing Pai The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.02.27 16:20:00 - [237] Originally by: Damorris Laht barely-english gibbering If you read only as well as you write, it isn't any surprise you didn't understand what the OP was complaining about. Had they sat in station, that would have been fine. No one is whining here about not being able to blow up a target. People are pointing out a loophole in the wardec mechanics which allow a single corp to avoid all wardecs from another single corp for a mere 8mil, while incurring potentially much greater cost to the corp issuing the wardecs. I'm guessing I or another member of my corp has podded your main recently and you've come here to throw a tantrum? Go away, trollface. Learn to read before you post a reply. Take a writing course. All of these things are acceptable.
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.27 16:26:00 - [238] Originally by: Fourty Niner Ok, first off, Id like to say that I think its a "Loop-hole" in the game mechs, But.... I see it as an opportunity to make some Isk by creating a Char called Atham Koris and offering this information for a fee. ps sometimes I forget to switch characters. Fixed that for ya.
wvari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.27 17:31:00 - [239] Why not create your own alt corp and declare war from that to their 4th corp. If they mess you about and swap corps you can declare from your alt corp and jump all your pvp guys over to that.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.27 17:40:00 - [240] Originally by: wvari Why not create your own alt corp and declare war from that to their 4th corp. If they mess you about and swap corps you can declare from your alt corp and jump all your pvp guys over to that. Is anything worth that much trouble? You could go to low/null sec and get some kills without a war, or war dec a corp that is worth a damn ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster

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