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AdmiralDovolski
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.02.15 17:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: AdmiralDovolski on 15/02/2008 18:02:23 edit: oops, hit enter instead of tab
ok, high sec ganking, we all experiance it. well, recently, a corp mate of mine lost a large amount of isk to this. it wouldnt be as big of a problem if the guy was in a corp, wed just wardec him, but hes not. hes some random 5 month old char in a noob corp we cant do anything about.
whats even worse: it was 5 battleships. on an outgate
i think that high sec ganking is stupid, but part of the game. however, i think that it is an exploit if you use a char thats in a noob corp or any NPC corp. they should be able to pay for their consequences, not hide from them. and the little kill rights page doesnt help when multiple guys shoot you. thats why i think 2 things need to be done:
1: make high sec ganking while in a noob corp an exploit
and 2: lock wrecks that are formed in .5 and higher that were not caused by having killrights, a wardec, or due to rats
thats just my 2 cents Proud to be a skunk |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Deadly Addiction
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:06:00 -
[2]
1.Yes npc corps need serious work
2.No way in hell.
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Kelron Queldine
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:08:00 -
[3]
No, there's plenty of consequences already. They lose their ships, they lose sec and you get kill rights on them. Killrights mean you can open fire on one of them at any time and the others can't legally retaliate.
I hate signatures with no distinct break from the body of the post. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin 1.Yes npc corps need serious work
2.No way in hell.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mark Lucius
Kinetic Vector Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin 1.Yes npc corps need serious work
2.No way in hell.
This. ---
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Khald
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:15:00 -
[6]
Make it so kill rights go to everyone in your alliance automatically.
Starter corps would not get this. This would encourage others to not hide out in starter corps and start trouble.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:17:00 -
[7]
Yes, everyone knows of suicide ganks. They know it can happen, they know it will hurt, but yet no precautions are taken. Why didn't any of you corp members escort your friend? A logistic ship or 2 should do the trick very well. A scout perhaps?
Yes, it really sucks that people abuse the NPC corps protection, but it is also the only counter to those that abuse the freedom of player corporations. If we follow up on your first suggestion, there either has to be a check in the code, which means more work for the servers, or a lot more work for the GM's from all the petitions. 2nd suggestion is not really an option either. The freedom in the game allows suicide ganks, as long as they lose their ships. I think there are corporations that do suicide ganks, and they will also be excluded, which is not your intention (if i understand you correct). A 3rd option, which has been suggested a lot of time, would be to remove insurance from suicide ganks. Still a bit icky to touch, in my opinion.
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AdmiralDovolski
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:50:00 -
[8]
1: it was on an out gate, we had scouts, and he was warping off. 2: he was in a transport ship. those dont break easy. 3: kill rights arent good enough, we only get aggro on 1 guy, and that isnt worth it
Proud to be a skunk |
Ioci
Gallente Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:58:00 -
[9]
I don't know how much work it would take to code this but unless you fire back, fleet doesn't get aggro. This would force all fleet members to suffer the wrath of Concord if they engage in high sec ganking. |
Shinobi Jonin
NorCorp Security eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.02.15 21:23:00 -
[10]
The thing I don't get about suicide ganking is the victim has 100% of the risk vs reward while the ganker has 0% (apart from choosing a target that ain't worth the gank)
And the poster above hit the nail on the head bringing friends in kill ships just doesn't make a difference whatsoever because they can't take down a well organized suicide squad gang fast enough no matter what. even if they were to get the aggro which of course they wont lol
Logistics ships won't even work in a lot of scenarios, there isn't enough of a buffer and armor repping takes a full cycle to work.and seriously how many people in eve flies logistics it's a hell of a long skill queue.
I wouldn't advocate completely removing it as the counter measures would need to be so draconian as to severely limit gameplay and kitty-onlining eve but damn the repercusions at the moment are a complete joke.
I's start with my reasoning behind the repercusions I think should be put in place.
From a RP point of view it's a completely laughable I suicide someone then next week i'm using the station in the system to put my clone, that makes ZERO sense to me station owners should be WAY more protective about the trade which is the lifeblood of their income. I'm not advocating increasing the grind to get sec status back up but station services like placing your clone should be revoked from whatever corp/faction's space where you commited the crime for a set time (3 months/whatever) clone gets automatically moved out to pirate stations or whatever, then the gankees could have the fun of getting their clone out from stations that people will be guaranteed be camping for easy kills
Secondly I think kill rights should last forever, and in the case of suicide gank in empire you should get a greater amounts of allowable kills before it runs out if not eternal and your corp/alliance shares the kill rights,
This one might be met with a lot of resistance but I think kill rights should be applied to every char on a account at the moment it's way to easy to hide behind having multiple chars one of which is in a NPC corp. And yes I do realise that people can have multiple accounts but this would at least alleviate the issue somewhat. I think your research guy should suffer for the actions of your pvp guy. This would work in reverse so if your indu char is suicided your pvp char also shares the killright. But Ohh noes that would of course mean that people would see who all your chars on a account. Bad thing/good thing, definetily both depending on what your playstyle is.
I also think Kill rights should be transferable for isk on contract. this would actually bring meaning into the bounty hunter trade which since the start of EVE has been the biggest Joke ever. I could see the feeling of satisfaction for a carebear corp/person thats griefed to transfer their kill right and pay a little sum doing so to a CORP/alliance of privateers that would most certainly relish and pursue the chance of a nice juicy kill, If the person with the kill right joins said group the kill right reverts back to the originator.
Bring some dang repercusions into blatant disregard for the status quo because for me from a RP perspective the repercussions are a joke and although I can't prove this I bet 99% of empire kill rights are unactioned simply due to the fact that the people who are killed are industrial non pvp skilled chars or non pvp skilled alts .
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.15 22:09:00 -
[11]
I agree with the OP, Suicide Ganking is part of the game, but it needs some attention... As I posted this idea before I will add it here...
If an attack will initiate the appearance of Concord and the attacker is in an NPC Corp, Concord should show up by the time the first round hits (if not before)... this will not affect Low Sec space as there is no Concord there, nor will it affect those willing to fight (PC Corps) that can be War Dec'ed...
Kill rights granted to a character that can't fight are useless, making them a tradable commodity means they can hire someone to go out and exact revenge... or sell them to someone
It would also be nice if an escort could do something to protect their charge...
I disagree about the Wrecks, but you canĘt have everything
--------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.02.15 22:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hamfast
If an attack will initiate the appearance of Concord and the attacker is in an NPC Corp, Concord should show up by the time the first round hits (if not before)... this will not affect Low Sec space as there is no Concord there, nor will it affect those willing to fight (PC Corps) that can be War Dec'ed...
So, you want there to be even more incentive to have 40 mill skillpoint players skulking in npc corps? Am i reading this right?
SKUNK
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.15 22:20:00 -
[13]
Don't worry, I'm busy working my sec stats back up from -10 so I can return to my roots of highsec shinanigens... feel free to dec us if you want
Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.02.15 22:59:00 -
[14]
Oh god, not this again.
READ: http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=341
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.02.15 23:29:00 -
[15]
Members of NPC corperations may not activate their weapons against another player unless that player aggresses them.
Members of NPC corperations may not steal from a jetcan or wreck.
Join a PC corp and the restrictions are lifted.
Sorted?
Tired of NPC corps sheltering these guys for the sake of supposedly protecting noobs. I got no problems with suicide ganking, can flipping, or any of that. But if you're going to do it, at least risk a war dec in retaliation.
As to the OP... sounds like your buddy was carrying a bit too much in that transport. Istabs? Cloak? He probably could have prevented it with a little more care.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Deadly Addiction
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Posted - 2008.02.15 23:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 Members of NPC corperations may not activate their weapons against another player unless that player aggresses them.
Members of NPC corperations may not steal from a jetcan or wreck.
Join a PC corp and the restrictions are lifted.
This
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.15 23:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Hamfast
If an attack will initiate the appearance of Concord and the attacker is in an NPC Corp, Concord should show up by the time the first round hits (if not before)... this will not affect Low Sec space as there is no Concord there, nor will it affect those willing to fight (PC Corps) that can be War Dec'ed...
So, you want there to be even more incentive to have 40 mill skillpoint players skulking in npc corps? Am i reading this right?
SKUNK
I don't much care if someone wants to stay in an NPC corp or not... I will try to rephrase it for you... (Incase your inability to read it right is due to my poor wordsmith skills)
If a Player in an NPC Corp attacks another player in a way that will trigger Concord to come pop them (the Suicide part of a Suicide Gank) then Concord should show up right away (with as little delay as possible) and pass judgment (pop the offender). If the Suicide ganker(s) are in PC corps, then Concord shows up as they do now, in their own good time (it takes them a while to leave the donut shops)
This only takes the attacker, not the victim/target, into account... as they have no affect on concord showing up.
--------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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vextorious
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.16 00:07:00 -
[18]
Edited by: vextorious on 16/02/2008 00:09:46
CARGO CONTAINER!!!!! Use them all the time regardless of value. Decrease the number of targets to decrease the number of hunters.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.02.16 00:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: vextorious Edited by: vextorious on 16/02/2008 00:09:46
CARGO CONTAINER!!!!! Use them all the time regardless of value. Decrease the number of targets to decrease the number of hunters.
What, how??
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Ungdall
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.16 01:47:00 -
[20]
furry alert :siren:
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.02.16 14:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Malcanis
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Only they don't. Or rather, the pitiful consequences they do provide, are so insignificant as to not matter at all.
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Brutoth Tain
Independant Recon and Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2008.02.16 17:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Brutoth Tain on 16/02/2008 17:02:02 Would a empire corp like the SWA or FNA accept and tolerate its "members" committing acts of piracy and murder?
If a member of a NPC corp carries out a high sec suicide gank it should be instant -5.0 security status and faction standing, that wont solve the problem completely as they will still recycle the alts but it would cause inconvenience as they would use them up faster instead of getting a number of ganks out of each recycle alt. And for the ones that don't recycle they have to grind everything back making a better effort to reward ratio. ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward. |
Ralara
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.16 19:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: AdmiralDovolski
ok, high sec ganking, we all experiance it.
No, we don't. Some of us are careful how we move around high sec :) -- Sir, I don't understand why we train for ECM, sir - in a fleet battle all you got to do is press buttons.
THE ENEMY CANNOT PRESS A BUTTON IF YOU DISABLE HIS LOCK.
MEDIC! |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.02.16 19:28:00 -
[24]
Ive never been attacked in empire either, not even when I was hauling 60 million isk robotics cargos around in my trusty t1 hauler with a medium shield booster. If people only would have known.. :)
--- Its dead, Jim.
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Ralara
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.16 19:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Ive never been attacked in empire either, not even when I was hauling 60 million isk robotics cargos around in my trusty t1 hauler with a medium shield booster. If people only would have known.. :)
Well exactly. I've moved a lot of loot or expensive stuff in t1 haulers in empire and ive never been ganked even when ive been next to, what I assume was, a "gank squad".
It's NOT difficult - just warp to 0 and pay attention. Auto piloting WILL get you killed eventually because they have time to scan you, MWD to you, web and kill you before concord arrive, but if you're warping to 0, unless someone is specifically gunning for YOU, they wont manage to lock you, scan you, shout over team speak, get the gang to lock you and open fire before you've warped off. -- Sir, I don't understand why we train for ECM, sir - in a fleet battle all you got to do is press buttons.
THE ENEMY CANNOT PRESS A BUTTON IF YOU DISABLE HIS LOCK.
MEDIC! |
Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.16 19:33:00 -
[26]
You know how to protect yourself with 100% efficiency from high-sec suicide ganking?
Make yourself an unprofitable target. Carry valuable goods in multiple trips, or if that's not possible then tank the ship you're flying enough that to take you out before Concorde arrive requires ships that are worth more than the value of your cargo.
Simple.
If neither of those options are possible then use your brains. Use a scout. Don't travel at peak time. Try and avoid the common routes. Stay out of Jita. Hire a bunch of people to travel with you in identical ships (10 tanked transports jumping at the same time is harder to scan than just one tanked transport jumping through).
There's so many ways to avoid being suicide ganked that I no longer have ANY sympathy at all for those who fall victim to it. ________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
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Shinobi Jonin
NorCorp Security eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.02.17 02:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Apocryphai You know how to protect yourself with 100% efficiency from high-sec suicide ganking?
Make yourself an unprofitable target. Carry valuable goods in multiple trips, or if that's not possible then tank the ship you're flying enough that to take you out before Concorde arrive requires ships that are worth more than the value of your cargo.
Simple.
If neither of those options are possible then use your brains. Use a scout. Don't travel at peak time. Try and avoid the common routes. Stay out of Jita. Hire a bunch of people to travel with you in identical ships (10 tanked transports jumping at the same time is harder to scan than just one tanked transport jumping through).
There's so many ways to avoid being suicide ganked that I no longer have ANY sympathy at all for those who fall victim to it.
Using a scout in empire systems packed to the brim, is almost pointless how the hell are you gonna know with any kind of certainty if any of the 40 guys in local are sitting cloaked on the gate waiting for just your freighter/indy
Some people have lives, jobs girlfriends kids etc not travelling at peak times might just not be an option, you know
Common routes, you do know that the systems connecting the different races space more or less chokepoint in every case yeah
Hire 10 people to travel how many jumps with you ? Ok lets assume the transport is transporting goods for sale for profit, now imagine what 10 people would want for lets say 45 minutes work, in what economy in this game would that pilot not end up loosing rather then earning isk.
Really it doesnt take for a indy to become a valid target, and not much more then the cost of a freigther to make it a target. Kind of funny in that a freigther can rarely actually fill it's own hold before it's a target.
anyways 90% of the replies in this thread are pretty fail as everyone is replying how to avoid suicide ganks when all the OP asked for was decent repercusions for suicide ganking which is something that's way way overdue at the moment all the risk lies with the victim and the kill right system is a joke.
Risk Vs Reward needs to be rebalanced so the victim(s) can take revenge somehow.
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Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.17 03:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 17/02/2008 03:12:36 Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 17/02/2008 03:09:24 i agree that npc corps need rework.
if you would limit npc corps to not be able to suicide or steal cans, the griefers would just make a random playercorp and leave this corp for a new one if wardecced.
the whole empire wardeccing system is silly. someone can FORCE you to be at war with him, but you can simply create a new corp.
if you have a large corp in a alliance, the exact opposite is the case: some can force a war with you and you can do nothing about it, because leaving is not an option.
imo the wardec system should be changed this way:
- npc corp members: a HUGE BOOST to security penalty if commiting crimes (i suggest that you, after 2-3 suicide ganking crimes will be -5)
- no ability to leave a player corp while corp is wardecced - wardecs can be created from 1 week - 4 weeks duration. the higher the duration the more the costs. (4 weeks wardecs should cost a lot more than 4x 1 week, reason see below) - after the wardec is finished, the corp can not be wardecced for a certain period of time again (a few days? a week?). this allows the corp to recover at least a bit or the members to leave the corp.
another possibility: if a npc corp member is commiting a crime, give all other members of this npc corp killrights for this member. most of the npc corps wouldnt want their members beeing criminals.
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Daytra
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Posted - 2008.02.18 04:50:00 -
[29]
Was he using autopilot?
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.02.18 06:13:00 -
[30]
Put your stuff into cargo containers. Then they can't scan it. Simple. ----- They've gone to PLAID!!
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