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| Author |
Topic |
Azuse
Live and Learn Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.18 19:13:00 -
[31]
My personal favourite is looking at a black screen while my isp lags, ore the server lags, or the pc lags, and loading into a pod in a station. That or unlocking form one the the stations that already put you outside of dock range from the off (this was an issue which the station remodelling was supposed to fix but some were quite obviously missed) then flying out further into A. the unknown and B. the sod all you can do about.
I sincerely hope this is a bug, or is prioritised for review because i guarantee if this goes live petitions will rocket, gm workload answering them will increase and you're adding more stress to their job. Will make not a blind bit of difference what your reimbursement policies are you will receive them regardless, you will politely tell them your policies does not cover the new feature you introduced and slowly you're going to be receiving more and more unhappy or angry. Who ever is outside the station first wins.
This relies on too many variables out with your control, it also goes completely against the need for speed initiative you've pushed for so long, warp to 0 came in to clear the data base for all those bookmarks, now you're forcing players to create far far more bookmarks for, quite frankly, a foolish reason (despite the good intent).
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Exlegion
Caldari
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.18 19:15:00 -
[32]
And yet another reason to go into low sec \o/
Spawn killing a la Gate Camp, but a whole new different flavor.
Can't wait to undock my mission ships in low sec...
 One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.18 20:22:00 -
[33]
It isnt a bug. A member of AGONY filed a bug report on this and was informed that it was a designed feature.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.18 23:05:00 -
[34]
Terrible idea, and not to be considered until stations have windows.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.18 23:16:00 -
[35]
As this change has major impact on everyone in 0.0, I'd strongly recommend CCP to blog about it, so a lot of people know it's coming before it hits TQ.
There will be a lot of noise. But if it hits TQ with few people knowing, it's going to be hell.
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Azuse
Live and Learn Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.19 00:14:00 -
[36]
Not 0.0, but anywhere there's lag.
When you're sitting looking at the black screen after the entering space bar your ships actually in space, if there's any lad anywhere your still looking that that black screen while everyone else is watching you float away, just try undocking in empire with a war deck after this. Or to a lowsec camp.
If you're being forced out of the station it also bring up the question as to what the point of being invincible after undocking, not much use when you're floating away. Of course it prevents the guys who dock, undock, dock but those gangs are always constantly moving anyway.
If you think instas had an impact on the dtat base watch it bulge after this 
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Grim Vandal
Caldari
Burn Proof
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Posted - 2008.02.19 02:14:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Grim Vandal on 19/02/2008 02:16:12
this is the best change ever for a long long time. i am no pirate or anything,
but it gets really lame if you need a bumpageddon instead,
honestly if I camp you I bump you hard but it took away one player fitted for it
this makes it easier now, however I kinda always thought a bumpageddon wasnt ment to be what it is ever? a dev comment would be appreciated on it.
this change or bumpageddons need fixing of desync bug.
if none of the 2 happens we have to live with it but its another HUGE letdown in eve.
Greetings Grim |
Wicked Pissah
AirHawk Alliance
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.19 04:04:00 -
[38]
I can't see how anyone who actually plays in 0.0 would support this change.
Still, there is nothing funnier than listening to all the tards chime in unison, "don't like it, don't dock." so please...by all means, keep that part up.
For those who do live in 0.0, and do support the change it would be interesting to hear why. Other than the trolling and bland cliches, I haven't read any real reasons why this might improve gameplay for anywhere other than the carebears in Jita.
I simply don't see band-aiding 1 system's traffic woes by nerfing station undocks improves this game in the slightest.
We are recruiting again |
Last Wolf
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2008.02.19 05:37:00 -
[39]
I live in 0.0 and i'm ALLL for this change. seriously. Ontop of this change you should not be able to dock if you've TAKEN damage within the last 30 seconds. But we really do need windows so we can look outside the dang station.
I'm just sick of the NPC station undock. wait till shields get to 1%... DOCK... rinse and repeat. "Hugging" the station (aka, sitting 0m from it) should NOT grant you immunity. Don't want to lose your ship? Don't undock in it.
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Koyama Ise
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Posted - 2008.02.19 05:41:00 -
[40]
My main problem with this is people I know have major black screen issues on jumping systems, undocking, etc. At least before on the "supposedly-fix-properly-modeled-stations" you would still be in docking range, but in some stations like "Serpentis Prime II - Arch-Angels Testing Facility" you have less than a second where you're in the docking ring of the station. If they made the undock rings of some stations bigger like the one I said people wouldn't be as annoyed about this change. Because I think the main reason is that dieing because your computer froze up a bit during black screen is just lame . Also, like xttz said it would be nice if we could see out the stations...
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Yes, I know I'm an alt, what are you going to do about it? |
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.20 06:55:00 -
[41]
 Originally by: Last Wolf
I live in 0.0 and i'm ALLL for this change. seriously. Ontop of this change you should not be able to dock if you've TAKEN damage within the last 30 seconds. But we really do need windows so we can look outside the dang station.
I'm just sick of the NPC station undock. wait till shields get to 1%... DOCK... rinse and repeat. "Hugging" the station (aka, sitting 0m from it) should NOT grant you immunity. Don't want to lose your ship? Don't undock in it.
Because you choose to waste ammo shooting at someone who will re-dock, you want to massively remap the PvP situation on stations? Would this be selfish or just short sighted? The first day you undock and get lagged to infinity, you will be back complaining about the change id wager.
The reality is that if this change goes in, you wont need more than a single interceptor on a station to catch everyone coming out. And the idea of windows in the station is a pipe dream becase of the structure of the game and the 3d engine. Essentially this will make every station a kickout station with no ability to instaundock. Thats right, when you undock that battleship it will take a lot of time to get into warp and if you get scrammed you are dead.
The only 0.0 people that could possibly like this are habitual dock campers that want to get the quick kill. This gives a MASSIVE advantage to the dock camper as they can just sit in dock range and if you come out in something bigger they dock. Essentially the dock camper now has 100% reward rate with little if any risk. Im sure the solo, risk-averse pirates would absolutely LOVE this.
Now make it so when you camp the station you MUST sit 5km off the dock range minimum then we have a more equal playing field.
In the end, however, such a change to the game must be very carefully considered. It is not a minor tweak, it is a significant and sweeping change that must be made for carefully considered reasons, not merely to spread people out in jita. I swear many decisions being made seem like the decision makers have never even played the game.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.20 07:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Last Wolf
I live in 0.0 and i'm ALLL for this change. seriously. Ontop of this change you should not be able to dock if you've TAKEN damage within the last 30 seconds. But we really do need windows so we can look outside the dang station.
I'm just sick of the NPC station undock. wait till shields get to 1%... DOCK... rinse and repeat. "Hugging" the station (aka, sitting 0m from it) should NOT grant you immunity. Don't want to lose your ship? Don't undock in it.
Because you choose to waste ammo shooting at someone who will re-dock, you want to massively remap the PvP situation on stations? Would this be selfish or just short sighted? The first day you undock and get lagged to infinity, you will be back complaining about the change id wager.
The reality is that if this change goes in, you wont need more than a single interceptor on a station to catch everyone coming out. And the idea of windows in the station is a pipe dream becase of the structure of the game and the 3d engine. Essentially this will make every station a kickout station with no ability to instaundock. Thats right, when you undock that battleship it will take a lot of time to get into warp and if you get scrammed you are dead.
The only 0.0 people that could possibly like this are habitual dock campers that want to get the quick kill. This gives a MASSIVE advantage to the dock camper as they can just sit in dock range and if you come out in something bigger they dock. Essentially the dock camper now has 100% reward rate with little if any risk. Im sure the solo, risk-averse pirates would absolutely LOVE this.
Now make it so when you camp the station you MUST sit 5km off the dock range minimum then we have a more equal playing field.
In the end, however, such a change to the game must be very carefully considered. It is not a minor tweak, it is a significant and sweeping change that must be made for carefully considered reasons, not merely to spread people out in jita. I swear many decisions being made seem like the decision makers have never even played the game.
/signed
A quick question, as plenty of people say how wonderful would it be in Jita.
Really, how much time will loose a freighter shoot at high speed in the wrong direction?
I don't pilot one so I would like a opinion from someone knowledgeable.
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Xykanth Roldeir
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Posted - 2008.02.20 07:36:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xykanth Roldeir on 20/02/2008 07:41:13
People still have instas? 
I thought those were all nerfed to unusable status over a year ago. During my days in 0.0 I had never even heard of Insta undocks. I agree that there should be a way to check for hostiles outside of station before undocking. But insta's must die and stay dead.
I like the statements another player made about engagements right at docking range. I like the idea if you took damage say during the last 10 seconds you can't dock. Another idea is ships within say like a 5km radius of the station cannot lock. Adjust the anti lock range as might be appriate maybe even up to 15km.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.20 07:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Xykanth Roldeir
People still have instas?
I thought those were all nerfed to unusable status over a year ago. During my days in 0.0 I had never even heard of Insta undocks. I agree that there should be a way to check for hostiles outside of station before undocking. But insta's must die and stay dead.
They are useful even in high sec, when you have a station that block easy jumping.
You put a undock insta in line with the station exit and jump to it, then you turn in the gate direction.
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Xykanth Roldeir
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Posted - 2008.02.20 07:50:00 -
[45]
I can understand how such insta's are useful. But when every player has to have dozens of bm's to undock from every station it starts to sound like the glory database lag days of insta's.
I would like to see as well for stations especially ones that are so busy that you end up leaving station in one of many directions. Instead of everyone getting spat out the bottom of the station you may end up comming out the top.
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Cpt Pugwash
Rubra Libertas Militia
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.20 08:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rells
Edited by: Rells on 15/02/2008 20:08:20
On sisi, it is impossible to insta-undock from the station. The reason why is that when you now undock, causes you to curve off at some random angle from the station undock. This means that you will never be able to be aligned for an undock bookmark. In addition you dont stop when you come out of the undock so if it is a staiton with a small dock radius or you get blackscreened, you could easily be out of range of redocking before you find out the opponent has an interdictor there.
I can understand how random angles and not stopping could be useful for the undocking log jam in Jita but this is a game breaker for 0.0. It means that you cant undock if there is as much as a single interceptor with a point, you will be caught. There is no more need to use a bubble on the station to stop people. This would represent a massive shift in gameplay and i dont think this should make it to live.
Before complaining about this mechanic you think is broken Rells, how about complaining about the broken mechanic your members are exploiting.
Or are Agony giving certs in, Jumping through a gate and logging to avoid the camp they find waiting for them, now?
The undocking games played by such as yourself have gone on to long. put a window in the stations and eject people at range.
Movies: Make Mine a Bob Light
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sausauge meat
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Posted - 2008.02.20 08:19:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cpt Pugwash
Originally by: Rells
Edited by: Rells on 15/02/2008 20:08:20
On sisi, it is impossible to insta-undock from the station. The reason why is that when you now undock, causes you to curve off at some random angle from the station undock. This means that you will never be able to be aligned for an undock bookmark. In addition you dont stop when you come out of the undock so if it is a staiton with a small dock radius or you get blackscreened, you could easily be out of range of redocking before you find out the opponent has an interdictor there.
I can understand how random angles and not stopping could be useful for the undocking log jam in Jita but this is a game breaker for 0.0. It means that you cant undock if there is as much as a single interceptor with a point, you will be caught. There is no more need to use a bubble on the station to stop people. This would represent a massive shift in gameplay and i dont think this should make it to live.
Before complaining about this mechanic you think is broken Rells, how about complaining about the broken mechanic your members are exploiting.
Or are Agony giving certs in, Jumping through a gate and logging to avoid the camp they find waiting for them, now?
The undocking games played by such as yourself have gone on to long. put a window in the stations and eject people at range.
Yup, 100% agree with pugwash here tbh, lol @ an Agony whine
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.02.20 15:09:00 -
[48]
The undocking that throws you outside docking range is fine provided we get information on local space around the station before undocking.
The overview could retain some functionality while inside station, or it could be one of the station services that acts like a ship scanner. Either way, this is something that's been requested for years, and is needed regardless of undocking mechanics.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.20 16:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cpt Pugwash
Before complaining about this mechanic you think is broken Rells, how about complaining about the broken mechanic your members are exploiting. Or are Agony giving certs in, Jumping through a gate and logging to avoid the camp they find waiting for them, now? The undocking games played by such as yourself have gone on to long. put a window in the stations and eject people at range.
First, I don't fly with Agony, never have, don't know any of them, second I've never logged off to avoid a fight.
It is hard to blame people for docking up or logging off when they've no chance at survival. Too much of Eve PVP is gank PVP, where the victim has no chance of survival. Bad game mechanics on one side of the equation, the mechanics that make ganks possible, are being overcome by bad mechanics on the other side, log off and docking games.
Half the ship nerfs and other stuff we see would not be needed if Eve PVP had more equitable mechanics where session changes are involved, gates and undocking. Insta undocks are a way to mitigate these bad mechanics, a way to even the playing field, if it is taken away, then there will be less people willing to undock and even try to fight or run away, it'll be safer to stay docked. That can't be good for the game.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Nhaz
Damage Unlimited Inc
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.20 20:55:00 -
[50]
this is a great change for high sec and low sec.
this is a terrible change for station owning alliances. someone argued that the station shouldn't be part of your tank.
In 0.0 yes the station IS a part of your tank.
But I agree the If this is pushed upon us. There Must be a window to look outside. Sorry, without knowing whats happening outside with this change people will simply Not undock until there is no hostiles in system. which is exactly the opposite of combat really.
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It's NOT paranoia, If they REALLY ARE out to get you! |
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Zarad
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Posted - 2008.02.20 22:00:00 -
[51]
Great Change!!
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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.02.20 22:18:00 -
[52]
YAY
Originally by: High Sierra
note to self:
dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.21 03:28:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Rells on 21/02/2008 03:29:04
Originally by: Xykanth Roldeir
Edited by: Xykanth Roldeir on 20/02/2008 07:41:13
People still have instas?
I thought those were all nerfed to unusable status over a year ago. During my days in 0.0 I had never even heard of Insta undocks. I agree that there should be a way to check for hostiles outside of station before undocking. But insta's must die and stay dead.
I like the statements another player made about engagements right at docking range. I like the idea if you took damage say during the last 10 seconds you can't dock. Another idea is ships within say like a 5km radius of the station cannot lock. Adjust the anti lock range as might be appriate maybe even up to 15km.
Both of your suggestions encourage station ganking and blobbing. All you need is to shoot the target and he can never dock. Such a thing would RADICALLY change the mechanics of the game.
The issue isn't so much even the undocks as much as it is, once again, Eve devs seemingly making a change without considering its wider impact. Such a change to undocking and docking would radically change PVP mechanics and encourage yet more scan alts and other things used to circumvent poor design issues.
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Skyr
ECP Rogues
The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.02.21 05:36:00 -
[54]
I jsut tried sisi and I undocked in straight line on three consecutive tries.... what change???
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benzss
Twisted Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.21 05:55:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Darth Ninjabadger
If they do this can we at least have some windows on the station to see what's actually out there.
I have no major objections to being flung from the station as long as you know what your meeting.
an option to view the station instead of your ship that you could rotate around as if you were looking at it while outside would be a useful addition.
I'm fine with this as long as there is also a way not to be seen from these windows.
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Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2008.02.21 06:11:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Flaming Lemming on 21/02/2008 06:11:43
Originally by: benzss
Originally by: Darth Ninjabadger
If they do this can we at least have some windows on the station to see what's actually out there.
I have no major objections to being flung from the station as long as you know what your meeting.
an option to view the station instead of your ship that you could rotate around as if you were looking at it while outside would be a useful addition.
I'm fine with this as long as there is also a way not to be seen from these windows.
It's called a cloak.
If you'd be visible if we were in space, we should be able to spot you from a station.
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OrangeAfroMan
Minmatar
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.02.21 07:05:00 -
[57]
Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 21/02/2008 07:10:43
Ahhh carebear tears. Almost as satisfying as gallente tears.
Gj CCP ^^
Originally by: ""
I can understand how such insta's are useful. But when every player has to have dozens of bm's to undock from every station it starts to sound like the glory database lag days of insta's.
I would like to see as well for stations especially ones that are so busy that you end up leaving station in one of many directions. Instead of everyone getting spat out the bottom of the station you may end up comming out the top.
I'd just like to throw in there that in one system alone I have over 20 bookmarks of insta-undocks used by macrohaulers and macro mission runners (lawl gj CCP at banning them.. oh wait..) that I've probed out and ganked, and most of the rest of the people in my alliance have them as well. Database lag? I think so.
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Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Havoc Inc
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.21 10:01:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 21/02/2008 10:01:01
All this means is shuttle prices are going to rise.
Undock in shuttle - check if safe - dock - change ship- undock - warp.
Insta undock BM abuse DID need to end.
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Ovek
Gallente
Cosmic Fusion
When Fat Kids Attack
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Posted - 2008.02.21 11:03:00 -
[59]
This boosts noone,
It encourages people NOT to undock even more(hey they won't even scout what you have now and give you a chance to bump/quick kill).
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.21 11:10:00 -
[60]
This is idiotic.
Station fighting is stupid as it is, the only saving feature being the ability to get safely out of a station using insta-undock align points and fleet warping people out so that you can take the fights to somewhere less moronic.
Why is it that CCP no longer has devs who pvp? Or who have EVER been to 0.0? Did all the devs with a clue go to China to oversee that project failure?
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Originally by: Victor Valka
What the skull-chick said.
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