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Author	Topic
Balooshinakus Slug Storm Squadron	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:33:00 - [61] Meh.. I think it's a fine change. I can guarantee you that the world will still in fact be here if they implement this change, and people will still undock from stations. I think that new changes are always nice, they keep the game fresh, and I think this will be a fun change. As far as stations all spitting you out from undock, that really depends; some of them do and some of them do not. As far as only needing an interceptor to tackle a battleship with this change.. All you need right now is an interdictor, not really an earth shattering change. I really liked I was stationed in the SOE in x-70 where you would get spit out of undock, it made things interesting. I'm all for more stations spitting you outside of undock. Undock -> Dock games are extremely lame and a complete waste of time. If you undock without intel and there is a camp, too bad; kind of like how if you jump through a gate without intel you are in trouble. Adds more teamwork to the game, and more risk, which is always fun. The bottom line is that it's a change, naturally people are going to complain about how game breaking it's going to be, and those same people will get over it when the change comes out, or they will quit the game - doesn't really matter either way to me.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:05:00 - [62] Baloo, I seem to remember that warp-to-zero was implemented despite the whines, yet somehow the world still didn't come tumbling down as had been predicted. More directly related to the change itself, though: 1) Could this possibly make killing those pesky macro/automated ships in low security and 0.0 space less tedious in that it'll be harder for them to dock up again/warp way? 2) If the station exit already roughly faces an assortment of celestial objects, isn't there going to be a chance you could leave the station and find out you're both moving at the necessary speed and already near perfectly aligned to warp away from the station as soon as you gain ship control?
Katana Seiko Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:51:00 - [63] Well, maybe stations in 0.0 should get some sentries... --- This is your Captain speaking. Thank you for flying with our spaceline. Please remain seated until the ship has completely burned out. Thank you.
Nhaz Damage Unlimited Inc Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:20:00 - [64] warp to zero had nothing to do with peoples pvp. warp to zero was to save their database. it didn't make a huge diff cuzz everyone who had a brain already had bookmarks to zero anyways. This change will make a Serious alteration of how people pvp. stations with their massive tanks was a safe spot that can't be broke without a serious fleet. With this change Stations will no longer be something worth running to if you plan on changing ships to pvp in. Whats worse is some conquerable stations in 0.0 have some of the worst undock positions ive ever seen. these stations will most likly get worse. making this change just to help the Jita'ites will harm more people in 0.0 then the few thousand alts that live in jita. If you want other trade hubs used to help spread people around offer incentives to use other hubs. and rotate them so you dont pile people up in another hub. _____________________________________________ It's NOT paranoia, If they REALLY ARE out to get you!
Fat Freddy	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:58:00 - [65] I think trying to solve the traffic-jam problem when 18 mission BS's all undock at once, by having a random angle and velocity when undocking is a good idea. The real problem is the disparity between the station 'model' and the graphic. For example I am currently at a station where after undocking you can travel up to 50km from the undock point and still be at 0km from docking. This is brilliant when baiting the station campers, you can let them bump you for ages and still be in dock range! Boot on the other foot, this is a nightmare as targets are always within docking range and cannot be bumped away. Personally I would like to see undock at a random angle, and once the invun timer expires, be about 1-2km from the docking perimeter, close enough to redock fairly easily, but allowing the possibility of being bumped off, made difficult given the random angle.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:07:00 - [66] Originally by: Rells This gives a MASSIVE advantage to the dock camper as they can just sit in dock range and if you come out in something bigger they dock. Essentially the dock camper now has 100% reward rate with little if any risk. Im sure the solo, risk-averse pirates would absolutely LOVE this. Well, yes. But then the 'risk adverse pirate' is now sat trapped in a station and is unable to undock without the immense risk to life and limb you are terrified of. So in fact, the risk to the 'risk adverse pirate' is actualy much higher if this idea goes through. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:08:00 - [67] Originally by: Fat Freddy I think trying to solve the traffic-jam problem when 18 mission BS's all undock at once, by having a random angle and velocity when undocking is a good idea. The real problem is the disparity between the station 'model' and the graphic. For example I am currently at a station where after undocking you can travel up to 50km from the undock point and still be at 0km from docking. This is brilliant when baiting the station campers, you can let them bump you for ages and still be in dock range! Boot on the other foot, this is a nightmare as targets are always within docking range and cannot be bumped away. Personally I would like to see undock at a random angle, and once the invun timer expires, be about 1-2km from the docking perimeter, close enough to redock fairly easily, but allowing the possibility of being bumped off, made difficult given the random angle. Yup, this would work just great. SKUNK
benzss Twisted Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:51:00 - [68] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Edited by: Flaming Lemming on 21/02/2008 06:11:43 Originally by: benzss Originally by: Darth Ninjabadger If they do this can we at least have some windows on the station to see what's actually out there. I have no major objections to being flung from the station as long as you know what your meeting. an option to view the station instead of your ship that you could rotate around as if you were looking at it while outside would be a useful addition. I'm fine with this as long as there is also a way not to be seen from these windows. It's called a cloak. If you'd be visible if we were in space, we should be able to spot you from a station. Yeah I suppose I'd be scared of a cloaking battleship. Snappy lock times. In any case I'm referring to some place in the station out of the line-of-sight of these windows. Otherwise, like this change, people simply won't bother undocking.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:10:00 - [69] Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 21/02/2008 17:11:36 Hm. I should write up my thoughts on this somewhere (again), but I guess I can post it here as well. I think station undock should be changed to be similar to gate jumps. You show up in a sphere of 15km (around undock point, not the station), cloaked, unmoving. The station should probably do some animation for "someone undocked" (like gate activation). The minute gate cloak gives you (usually) enough time to load everything. Then you can decide to warp off, burn back to the station, or whatever. The mechanics are simple and well understood. It will also make Jita much less crowded. Also, please consider making it possible to do a "directional scan" from inside the station to check for hostiles outside. In the same way, I would love to get a high-slot module that can do a directional scan through a star gate. You can restrict the maximum scan distance for that, too, if you think 14.3 AU is too much.
Ico Seduvaar Uninvited Guests Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:32:00 - [70] Originally by: Arkady Sadik Also, please consider making it possible to do a "directional scan" from inside the station to check for hostiles outside. In the same way, I would love to get a high-slot module that can do a directional scan through a star gate. You can restrict the maximum scan distance for that, too, if you think 14.3 AU is too much. These are two of the silliest things I've ever read on eve-o. And that's saying a lot. You really want a no-risk/high reward game? Play WoW or Monopoly or something.

Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:44:00 - [71] Originally by: Ico Seduvaar Originally by: Arkady Sadik Also, please consider making it possible to do a "directional scan" from inside the station to check for hostiles outside. In the same way, I would love to get a high-slot module that can do a directional scan through a star gate. You can restrict the maximum scan distance for that, too, if you think 14.3 AU is too much. These are two of the silliest things I've ever read on eve-o. And that's saying a lot. You really want a no-risk/high reward game? Play WoW or Monopoly or something. When travelling, you don't use scouts (or alts)? Impressive. When camping, you don't put/jump someone to the other side of the gate to force someone through? More impressive. You think gate/station camps are the main "risks" in EVE? Nost impressive.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.02.21 19:18:00 - [72] Sorry, that was not very constructive. Let me rephrase that. I don't think the two options would reduce risk too much. First, for stations, it gives the option at all to decide to undock or not with a camp on the outside. This is not very different from now, where you can undock, check what's up, and redock right away. Combined with the undock at 15km range, this would give a conscious decision to take in a risk instead of undocking into the unknown. Second, for star gates, this gives the ability to check whether there are ships on the other side, and what types (no affiliation). This is less information than a scout (or alt) would get, at about the same kind of risk. It gives some (small) amount of safety for giving up a high slot. On the other hand, it allows a gate camp to see what's going on "on the other side" without putting a scout there by themselves, thus helping them as well. But the second part is not really on topic for this thread, so feel free to disregard. For stations, this is just an implementation of the "station windows" idea brought up before.
Wylker Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:24:00 - [73] Originally by: Nhaz warp to zero had nothing to do with peoples pvp. warp to zero was to save their database. it didn't make a huge diff cuzz everyone who had a brain already had bookmarks to zero anyways. This change will make a Serious alteration of how people pvp. stations with their massive tanks was a safe spot that can't be broke without a serious fleet. With this change Stations will no longer be something worth running to if you plan on changing ships to pvp in. Whats worse is some conquerable stations in 0.0 have some of the worst undock positions ive ever seen. these stations will most likly get worse. making this change just to help the Jita'ites will harm more people in 0.0 then the few thousand alts that live in jita. If you want other trade hubs used to help spread people around offer incentives to use other hubs. and rotate them so you dont pile people up in another hub. Hi Nhaz! Stop crying, this is the best change ever!
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:30:00 - [74] I'm in favor of giving this a try. 1) Undocking shouldn't be a risk-free act. Being in a station already has a huge advantage over jumping through a gate (it's called local). If there's one or more hostiles in local, either be camped in, take a chance, or get a friend. 2) Sissy-talking dock warriors **** me off. My 0.02, G -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.21 23:17:00 - [75] Originally by: EvilSpork why not just apply this new undocking idea to highsec only. how many traffic jams do you see in 0.0? Awesome sig, c/d? ---
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.22 01:35:00 - [76] Ah, well. Shuttles+station huggery ftw ;) The thing is, remove insta-undocks and suddenly I have to play stupid dock-undock-dock-undock games, which is particularly annoying when you're flashing red and you have mercs or some other station warriors who aren't ;P I'd rather go out of station to a insta to go somewhere I can actually fight, but why would I do that when I can play awesomely fun undock/redock/undock/redock games? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Nhaz Damage Unlimited Inc Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.22 03:16:00 - [77] Originally by: Wylker Hi Nhaz! Stop crying, this is the best change ever! Random bash from nowhere? You havn't changed I see when you don't like logic or other solutions you bash instead. How about something constructive. I, at least put something constructive in my post. _____________________________________________ It's NOT paranoia, If they REALLY ARE out to get you!
True Ace Gallente Indigo Rain Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.22 04:29:00 - [78] id go a step further and say all ships should be towed out 10km from dock point. u undocked for a reason right . its no different than jumping into a hostile camp. what ever happened to never undock in something u cant afford to lose . and about the blackscreen. if u are blackscreened now u probaly going to die so what exactly changed lol. if u undock in a bs with local full of reds u deserve your fate.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.22 08:25:00 - [79] Originally by: True Ace and about the blackscreen. if u are blackscreened now u probaly going to die so what exactly changed lol. Good thing ambulation is comming, will give people something to do. It's a conspiracy to make us like ambulation. </foil hat> The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.02.22 09:15:00 - [80] Originally by: Katana Seiko Well, maybe stations in 0.0 should get some sentries... I'm pretty sure that the NPC controlled stations have one or two of them out there, in order to deter people from engaging in hit-point arm wrestling with them. I imagine player-controllable stations, not so much. They'd also a whole different can of worms down that line of thinking. Originally by: Nhaz warp to zero had nothing to do with peoples pvp. Perhaps, perhaps not. My point being that a certain demographic or two whined that it did and yet the sky didn't fall in on them when it was introduced.

FinrodFelagund Rome Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.02.22 10:37:00 - [81] Yet another change that makes cov ops alts even more necessary. This won't change anything except elimiating people who dont belong in 0.0 (read: slight increase to darwinism) faster. People just won't undock. People will go to a POS (which is arguably safer anyway) Minimatar stations will still be fscked and gallente etc station owners will still be able to do the docking game. Waste of code time. Waste of attention... Please fix lag instead of random useless bull****.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.02.23 07:57:00 - [82] Originally by: FinrodFelagund This won't change anything except elimiating people who dont belong in 0.0 (read: slight increase to darwinism) faster. So basically, people need to learn to adapt if this change goes ahead?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.23 14:05:00 - [83] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/02/2008 14:07:50 Originally by: Segge Bolled Originally by: FinrodFelagund This won't change anything except elimiating people who dont belong in 0.0 (read: slight increase to darwinism) faster. So basically, people need to learn to adapt if this change goes ahead? Then don't start crying "I can't get a target without a cloak" or "I can't find targets in low sec" as some pirate do if the people adapt leaving dangerous zones alone or using cloak on every ship. Gazelles don't adapt to predators becoming inefficient predators, they adapt becoming faster or learning to graze where the predato can't ambush them.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.23 19:20:00 - [84] Originally by: Venkul Mul Gazelles don't adapt to predators becoming inefficient predators, they adapt becoming faster or learning to graze where the predator can't ambush them. Yep. For a game that is supposed to be a PVP game, I find it odd that so many conditions in Eve promote gank play, a play style that tends to make people avoid combat. Anything that has the potential to put players in no win situations hurts PVP. Using alts is not a reasonable option, no one should have to have two accounts to play, or have to have a friend out side a station or jump a gate ahead to simply move around the game world. These things limit player options; games are all about options. Forcing, or damn close to forcing, a player to have to wait on someone else to do simple task of undocking or jumping is limiting options. Eve needs to get away from this gank-a-thon thinking and approach to PVP, it's not good for the game's reputation and it's not fun for the majority of the players. This is supposed to be a space game, there are trillions of cubic kilometers available, but we play this game like we're running around in a jungle with nets and spears. For those who have not seen the Serengeti, there are animals all over the place, they have lots of room to run away from other animals with big teeth, and that's a 2D space, the ground. Were in 3D space and have less options than grass eaters. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Concord PoopiePants	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:14:00 - [85] Edited by: Concord **iePants on 23/02/2008 22:14:48 Originally by: Gort I'm in favor of giving this a try. 1) Undocking shouldn't be a risk-free act. Being in a station already has a huge advantage over jumping through a gate (it's called local). If there's one or more hostiles in local, either be camped in, take a chance, or get a friend. 2) Sissy-talking dock warriors **** me off. My 0.02, G Agreed. IMO, every station should kick you out in warp about 200km off, in a random direction(Prefferably 30 degrees from the undock direction, with a range of 175-200km), obviously, you'd be able to turn around and warp back, but you'd also have plenty of room to align to something else without getting caught up on the station. Station campers could put up their bubble if they have one large enough in this amount of room, pirates could sit in this area hoping for people to warp close enough that they could catch them, fleets could all undock and align at the same time with relative ease... etc.
Vitelius Decorum Inc	Posted - 2008.02.25 11:10:00 - [86] I'm ok with this change... as long as I can look outside the station from a frikken window! I mean for god sakes, as a sane man I would first want to check how it looks outside before actually undocking. If a station pushes you in the middle of wolves saying "kthxbye, you're out of dock range, have fun" it's clearly not going to help PvP - people will just stay docked more and use alts to check if it's safe to undock. Besides these "dock wars" do give a possibility to PvP as it brings a sense of safety to the undocking guys, which can then maybe baited to aggress and therefore creating a fight but if you're taking a huge risk in just undocking, people will probably just pass the potential fight because of higher risk involved. Then again some stations have so huge docking ranges that I don't see this happening easily... but some stations don't which brings a huge disadvantage to some people. I don't see any good in this change at all. If this is just to fix undocking traffic jams, it's not the right way. A traffic jam has absolutely minimal effect to gameplay and is not a good reason to change something as fundamental as this. Then again I trust the devs know this and have laid a cunning plan already, otherwise they wouldn't be testing this. Also remember that it's Sisi, not Tranq. ---
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:02:00 - [87] Originally by: Concord **iePants Agreed. IMO, every station should kick you out in warp about 200km off, in a random direction(Prefferably 30 degrees from the undock direction, with a range of 175-200km), obviously, you'd be able to turn around and warp back, but you'd also have plenty of room to align to something else without getting caught up on the station. Station campers could put up their bubble if they have one large enough in this amount of room, pirates could sit in this area hoping for people to warp close enough that they could catch them, fleets could all undock and align at the same time with relative ease... etc. I don't get what is your idea, you are speaking of undocking and warping away (and so you appear more than 150 km away form the station) or speaking of docking (an so you leave warp at 170 KM from the station)?
Eaterof Children	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:45:00 - [88] I'm all for this change, as long as there is a way to check for what's happening outside the station. Otherwise it's just a needless bonus to the agressor. I'm all for balance. You should think that there are more reasonable places to "ambush" people (ambush, as they're not aware of you, not "ambush" as "just blob anyhow") than stations (gates come to mind). Undocking should be an act of risk, so I'm all for nerfing instaundocks. Undocking should not be an act of faith (i.e. you don't know what you're jumping into) even if noone takes the pain to conceal it (not even cloaked or just offgrid and aligned et.c.) A pilot should get no special treatment for undocking (like with instaundocks et.c.) but he should at least be aware of the situation outside the station (unless people are using cloaks et.c.).
Max DeathWish Caldari Thundercats	Posted - 2008.03.01 20:30:00 - [89] Originally by: xttz If you're going to implement this, at least provide a way to look outside a window. Having to scout your way out of a friendly station is intensely stupid. there is no rational, supportable explanation for pilots to not have access to the station's basic scanning facilities. alongside the "Offices", "Guests", and "Agents" tabs, there should be a "Telemetry" (or some such) tab that has the exact same setup as one's overview. no excuse for not implementing this. none. somehow i doubt it will ever happen though. :(
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2008.03.02 04:06:00 - [90] This is a serious issue. Many stations already throw you out of docking range as it is now, and this would just make the problem even larger. New video: Pride, Honor & Retribution

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