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Author	Topic
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.15 20:08:00 - [1] Edited by: Rells on 15/02/2008 20:08:20 On sisi, it is impossible to insta-undock from the station. The reason why is that when you now undock, causes you to curve off at some random angle from the station undock. This means that you will never be able to be aligned for an undock bookmark. In addition you dont stop when you come out of the undock so if it is a staiton with a small dock radius or you get blackscreened, you could easily be out of range of redocking before you find out the opponent has an interdictor there. I can understand how random angles and not stopping could be useful for the undocking log jam in Jita but this is a game breaker for 0.0. It means that you cant undock if there is as much as a single interceptor with a point, you will be caught. There is no more need to use a bubble on the station to stop people. This would represent a massive shift in gameplay and i dont think this should make it to live.
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.15 20:25:00 - [2] Oh great, station camp blobs really needed a boost... Seriously, this change is so broken, it's not even funny. All it will accomplish is make it mandatory to keep people keeping watch at stations 23/7, or stay docked. Won't create more fights near the stations as people will just get all paranoid and stay inside unless they have a handful of logistics ships to keep them alive... It solves nothing and encourages blob camping, completely unneeded change.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.15 20:37:00 - [3] Lol, station camping ftw! The first week is gonna be crazy after this goes live.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.15 20:42:00 - [4] woo finally! no more cluster ****s. wait why can't they just make multiple undocking points like in the trailer? :(
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.02.15 20:56:00 - [5] From what I've seen on SiSi, you'll still be in docking range after the re-docking delay even though you're not stopping. However, the amount of time you have to re-dock before you get out of docking range is pretty small, assuming that you don't stop yourself manually. The regular un-docking delay should keep you safe and still let you re-dock right away but it could be an issue in really laggy systems. But the whole point of these changes is to combat that lag so we'll just have to wait and see. I think that the only time this would be an issue is if the station is blobbed, but even if you undock into a blob now your chances are iffy at best. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
EvilSpork Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:36:00 - [6] why not just apply this new undocking idea to highsec only. how many traffic jams do you see in 0.0?
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:42:00 - [7] Played with this myself, and yes,this is a gift to bumpers and station campers. That is until we all make cardinal undock book marks, 12 0'clock undock, 3 o'clock undock, 6 o'clock undock, 9 o'clock undock here I come. Just let people go out straight, other wise we get new BM games to play. An alternative is enable the "warp to" button on the selected items window upon undocking, when the player clicks that upon undocking, they warp a random distance in a stright line away from the station, use the code for emergency warp with out altering the ship's direction. Undocking is already a blind proposition, this makes it worse. Glad I am good at making book marks. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:42:00 - [8] This new feature makes some stations really dangerous while not effecting other stations. On some station, the undock point is just a few km from the docking range. On other stations, you can travel more than 5 km and still be in docking range. With this change, people would be required to memorize all undocking ranges for each type of station in 0.0. Overall it just raises a lot of problems
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.16 02:46:00 - [9] I for one welcome this new undock change
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.16 03:44:00 - [10] Maybe you shouldnt dock up in bad neighbourhoods? If you do, how is it ccps fault that you undock and get ganked? Less carebear-whine please. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation

Tek'a Rain Gallente Collegium Mechanicae	Posted - 2008.02.16 04:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Maybe you shouldnt dock up in bad neighbourhoods? If you do, how is it ccps fault that you undock and get ganked? Less carebear-whine please. because MORE risk in a situation thats already hit-or-miss means people Staying in station and smacking you in local for a week And/Or tilting the risk/reward for some lowsec places, finally emptying them (except for desperate pirates hunting noobships who dont know any better) think.. Then post.
jongalt	Posted - 2008.02.16 04:43:00 - [12] rells, im surprised. only >2< paragraphs and no fire & brimstone anxiety attacks???????? somebody got laid. btw, i agree with you. -jg.
Lucas Avidius Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.02.16 05:10:00 - [13] Seems like a pointless change in all cases except huge market hubs. In addition, some people make undock instas because undocking at certain stations and trying to align in a ship heavier than a cruiser will often lead to you bumping into the station itself. Now if this change goes live we'll randomly slide into the wall while the game loads, and then get tossed outward at a few k/sec once we either move or our undovck timer expires. Also in really havy ships, its often faster to undock, insta yourself a few thousand K away, and then align than it is to slow your ship down and align from the undock point. Enable this change at selected stations or on a per-undock basis (like a little checkmark above the undock button or something). Making it blanket affect all stations just seems pointless.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.16 05:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Tek'a Rain Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Maybe you shouldnt dock up in bad neighbourhoods? If you do, how is it ccps fault that you undock and get ganked? Less carebear-whine please. because MORE risk in a situation thats already hit-or-miss means people Staying in station and smacking you in local for a week And/Or tilting the risk/reward for some lowsec places, finally emptying them (except for desperate pirates hunting noobships who dont know any better) think.. Then post. If you dont like the risks of low sec, no sec space then dont go. If you are afraid you might get camped in a station DONT DOCK. There are enough easy modes in this game and youre complaining about getting a bit more risk involved by undock in hostile space and not being able to insta undock/dock as soon as you spot a ship? I think not. Smacking in local for a week sounds fun though. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.16 05:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If you dont like the risks of low sec, no sec space then dont go. If you are afraid you might get camped in a station DONT DOCK. There are enough easy modes in this game and youre complaining about getting a bit more risk involved by undock in hostile space and not being able to insta undock/dock as soon as you spot a ship? I think not. Who made you pope? The more of that kind of choice is put in front of players, the more likely the choice is don't subscribe instead of don't go there. Eve should be dangerous, Eve should not be easy, but Eve should not be ganks online. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.02.16 06:38:00 - [16] This is good... very good Originally by: ivan draco we didnt want your post anyway
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.02.16 10:17:00 - [17] This change is not good. Well I will live with it also ofc, it just means that I will need to create a lot more insta undock bookmarks than current 1 per station. People always adabt, but at what cost to database.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.16 13:27:00 - [18] I have mixed feelings about this. On the bad side it favours a specific set of ships, the ones that can happily live in web range, over the others. On the good side I look forward starting my bookmark brokering business.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.16 18:44:00 - [19] No this issue is not about Jita. Its exaclty about stopping the dock undock dock undock games in stations. There is already too easy time running from combat. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.16 21:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Kagura Nikon There is already too easy time running from combat. That's one of the main reasons we get blobs. Yay for mechanics that promote blobs. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)

Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.02.16 21:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Kagura Nikon No this issue is not about Jita. Its exaclty about stopping the dock undock dock undock games in stations. There is already too easy time running from combat. This is exactly the point, this whole nonsense of fighting at the stations docking range is silly. However, this isn't a solution either, imho undocking with a warp point straight ahead is fine the way it is (and pretty much the only way to get past station camps), we don't want to promote station camping too much, do we? Imho best way to fix all this would be moving the dock perimeter maybe 5km closer to the station than the undock point is, so if you're undocking you have to cover those 5km while webbed and bumped, enough for the notorious station gankers to play their game. If this is done, there should be at least a way to tell what's going on outisde the station, maybe a list of ships inside a 20km perimeter around the station or the undock point, so it actually makes sense for non-combatants to undock if they see more than 0 neutrals/hostiles in local. However, constant undocking, tanking a bit and then redocking in a combat ship without any real risk involved all while dropping "haha lol" in local is not the way its meant imho.
Darth Ninjabadger Caldari m3 Corp Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2008.02.16 22:10:00 - [22] If they do this can we at least have some windows on the station to see what's actually out there. I have no major objections to being flung from the station as long as you know what your meeting. an option to view the station instead of your ship that you could rotate around as if you were looking at it while outside would be a useful addition.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:39:00 - [23] That they would make such a change, universally nerfing undock bookmarks, is one thing. That they would do it without any regard to its effect on 0.0 combat just for the purpose of spreading poeple out at Jita IV-4 is preposterous. Such a change is a massive alteration of 0.0 PvP and should NOT be taken lightly.
Rhaegor Stormborn Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.02.18 00:29:00 - [24] Excellent change. Volition Cult Recruitment Post
Neuromandis	Posted - 2008.02.18 03:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Rells That they would make such a change, universally nerfing undock bookmarks, is one thing. That they would do it without any regard to its effect on 0.0 combat just for the purpose of spreading poeple out at Jita IV-4 is preposterous. Such a change is a massive alteration of 0.0 PvP and should NOT be taken lightly. --- If someone else from my Corporation or Alliance agrees with me, he will say so. Assume nobody does :) --- WTB: Scorpion wing (left)
crudhunch Templars of Space Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 04:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If you dont like the risks of low sec, no sec space then dont go. If you are afraid you might get camped in a station DONT DOCK. There are enough easy modes in this game and youre complaining about getting a bit more risk involved by undock in hostile space and not being able to insta undock/dock as soon as you spot a ship? I think not. Smacking in local for a week sounds fun though. I couldn't agree more. I think this is a great change.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2008.02.18 06:18:00 - [27] This is bad for 0.0 but a good idea for Jita. Implement this in highsec only please. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Aralt Aran	Posted - 2008.02.18 11:23:00 - [28] I love it and i think alot will love it too. bann the cloak.
endeavour x Hangover Heros.	Posted - 2008.02.18 12:02:00 - [29] I whole hartedly give this idea a big thumbs up. A station should not be an extension of your tank. Nice easy rule in 0.0 is to not undock in anything you can't afford to loose, by clicking the three little arrows you consent to having the rest of the Eve population try and kick you in the nuts. Allthough a window would be nice to look out of, as long as i can adorn it with net curtains. "If they can't lock you, they can't shoot you."
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.18 12:20:00 - [30] If you're going to implement this, at least provide a way to look outside a window. Having to scout your way out of a friendly station is intensely stupid.

Azuse Live and Learn Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.18 19:13:00 - [31] My personal favourite is looking at a black screen while my isp lags, ore the server lags, or the pc lags, and loading into a pod in a station. That or unlocking form one the the stations that already put you outside of dock range from the off (this was an issue which the station remodelling was supposed to fix but some were quite obviously missed) then flying out further into A. the unknown and B. the sod all you can do about. I sincerely hope this is a bug, or is prioritised for review because i guarantee if this goes live petitions will rocket, gm workload answering them will increase and you're adding more stress to their job. Will make not a blind bit of difference what your reimbursement policies are you will receive them regardless, you will politely tell them your policies does not cover the new feature you introduced and slowly you're going to be receiving more and more unhappy or angry. Who ever is outside the station first wins. This relies on too many variables out with your control, it also goes completely against the need for speed initiative you've pushed for so long, warp to 0 came in to clear the data base for all those bookmarks, now you're forcing players to create far far more bookmarks for, quite frankly, a foolish reason (despite the good intent). -------------------------
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 19:15:00 - [32] And yet another reason to go into low sec \o/ Spawn killing a la Gate Camp, but a whole new different flavor. Can't wait to undock my mission ships in low sec... One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.18 20:22:00 - [33] It isnt a bug. A member of AGONY filed a bug report on this and was informed that it was a designed feature.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.02.18 23:05:00 - [34] Terrible idea, and not to be considered until stations have windows.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 23:16:00 - [35] As this change has major impact on everyone in 0.0, I'd strongly recommend CCP to blog about it, so a lot of people know it's coming before it hits TQ. There will be a lot of noise. But if it hits TQ with few people knowing, it's going to be hell.
Azuse Live and Learn Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.19 00:14:00 - [36] Not 0.0, but anywhere there's lag. When you're sitting looking at the black screen after the entering space bar your ships actually in space, if there's any lad anywhere your still looking that that black screen while everyone else is watching you float away, just try undocking in empire with a war deck after this. Or to a lowsec camp. If you're being forced out of the station it also bring up the question as to what the point of being invincible after undocking, not much use when you're floating away. Of course it prevents the guys who dock, undock, dock but those gangs are always constantly moving anyway. If you think instas had an impact on the dtat base watch it bulge after this -------------------------
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2008.02.19 02:14:00 - [37] Edited by: Grim Vandal on 19/02/2008 02:16:12 this is the best change ever for a long long time. i am no pirate or anything, but it gets really lame if you need a bumpageddon instead, honestly if I camp you I bump you hard but it took away one player fitted for it this makes it easier now, however I kinda always thought a bumpageddon wasnt ment to be what it is ever? a dev comment would be appreciated on it. this change or bumpageddons need fixing of desync bug. if none of the 2 happens we have to live with it but its another HUGE letdown in eve. Greetings Grim
Wicked Pissah AirHawk Alliance Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.19 04:04:00 - [38] I can't see how anyone who actually plays in 0.0 would support this change. Still, there is nothing funnier than listening to all the tards chime in unison, "don't like it, don't dock." so please...by all means, keep that part up. For those who do live in 0.0, and do support the change it would be interesting to hear why. Other than the trolling and bland cliches, I haven't read any real reasons why this might improve gameplay for anywhere other than the carebears in Jita. I simply don't see band-aiding 1 system's traffic woes by nerfing station undocks improves this game in the slightest. We are recruiting again
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.02.19 05:37:00 - [39] I live in 0.0 and i'm ALLL for this change. seriously. Ontop of this change you should not be able to dock if you've TAKEN damage within the last 30 seconds. But we really do need windows so we can look outside the dang station. I'm just sick of the NPC station undock. wait till shields get to 1%... DOCK... rinse and repeat. "Hugging" the station (aka, sitting 0m from it) should NOT grant you immunity. Don't want to lose your ship? Don't undock in it.
Koyama Ise	Posted - 2008.02.19 05:41:00 - [40] My main problem with this is people I know have major black screen issues on jumping systems, undocking, etc. At least before on the "supposedly-fix-properly-modeled-stations" you would still be in docking range, but in some stations like "Serpentis Prime II - Arch-Angels Testing Facility" you have less than a second where you're in the docking ring of the station. If they made the undock rings of some stations bigger like the one I said people wouldn't be as annoyed about this change. Because I think the main reason is that dieing because your computer froze up a bit during black screen is just lame. Also, like xttz said it would be nice if we could see out the stations... -------- Yes, I know I'm an alt, what are you going to do about it?

Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.20 06:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Last Wolf I live in 0.0 and i'm ALLL for this change. seriously. Ontop of this change you should not be able to dock if you've TAKEN damage within the last 30 seconds. But we really do need windows so we can look outside the dang station. I'm just sick of the NPC station undock. wait till shields get to 1%... DOCK... rinse and repeat. "Hugging" the station (aka, sitting 0m from it) should NOT grant you immunity. Don't want to lose your ship? Don't undock in it. Because you choose to waste ammo shooting at someone who will re-dock, you want to massively remap the PvP situation on stations? Would this be selfish or just short sighted? The first day you undock and get lagged to infinity, you will be back complaining about the change id wager. The reality is that if this change goes in, you wont need more than a single interceptor on a station to catch everyone coming out. And the idea of windows in the station is a pipe dream becase of the structure of the game and the 3d engine. Essentially this will make every station a kickout station with no ability to instaundock. Thats right, when you undock that battleship it will take a lot of time to get into warp and if you get scrammed you are dead. The only 0.0 people that could possibly like this are habitual dock campers that want to get the quick kill. This gives a MASSIVE advantage to the dock camper as they can just sit in dock range and if you come out in something bigger they dock. Essentially the dock camper now has 100% reward rate with little if any risk. Im sure the solo, risk-averse pirates would absolutely LOVE this. Now make it so when you camp the station you MUST sit 5km off the dock range minimum then we have a more equal playing field. In the end, however, such a change to the game must be very carefully considered. It is not a minor tweak, it is a significant and sweeping change that must be made for carefully considered reasons, not merely to spread people out in jita. I swear many decisions being made seem like the decision makers have never even played the game.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 07:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Rells Originally by: Last Wolf I live in 0.0 and i'm ALLL for this change. seriously. Ontop of this change you should not be able to dock if you've TAKEN damage within the last 30 seconds. But we really do need windows so we can look outside the dang station. I'm just sick of the NPC station undock. wait till shields get to 1%... DOCK... rinse and repeat. "Hugging" the station (aka, sitting 0m from it) should NOT grant you immunity. Don't want to lose your ship? Don't undock in it. Because you choose to waste ammo shooting at someone who will re-dock, you want to massively remap the PvP situation on stations? Would this be selfish or just short sighted? The first day you undock and get lagged to infinity, you will be back complaining about the change id wager. The reality is that if this change goes in, you wont need more than a single interceptor on a station to catch everyone coming out. And the idea of windows in the station is a pipe dream becase of the structure of the game and the 3d engine. Essentially this will make every station a kickout station with no ability to instaundock. Thats right, when you undock that battleship it will take a lot of time to get into warp and if you get scrammed you are dead. The only 0.0 people that could possibly like this are habitual dock campers that want to get the quick kill. This gives a MASSIVE advantage to the dock camper as they can just sit in dock range and if you come out in something bigger they dock. Essentially the dock camper now has 100% reward rate with little if any risk. Im sure the solo, risk-averse pirates would absolutely LOVE this. Now make it so when you camp the station you MUST sit 5km off the dock range minimum then we have a more equal playing field. In the end, however, such a change to the game must be very carefully considered. It is not a minor tweak, it is a significant and sweeping change that must be made for carefully considered reasons, not merely to spread people out in jita. I swear many decisions being made seem like the decision makers have never even played the game. /signed A quick question, as plenty of people say how wonderful would it be in Jita. Really, how much time will loose a freighter shoot at high speed in the wrong direction? I don't pilot one so I would like a opinion from someone knowledgeable.
Xykanth Roldeir	Posted - 2008.02.20 07:36:00 - [43] Edited by: Xykanth Roldeir on 20/02/2008 07:41:13 People still have instas? I thought those were all nerfed to unusable status over a year ago. During my days in 0.0 I had never even heard of Insta undocks. I agree that there should be a way to check for hostiles outside of station before undocking. But insta's must die and stay dead. I like the statements another player made about engagements right at docking range. I like the idea if you took damage say during the last 10 seconds you can't dock. Another idea is ships within say like a 5km radius of the station cannot lock. Adjust the anti lock range as might be appriate maybe even up to 15km.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 07:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Xykanth Roldeir People still have instas? I thought those were all nerfed to unusable status over a year ago. During my days in 0.0 I had never even heard of Insta undocks. I agree that there should be a way to check for hostiles outside of station before undocking. But insta's must die and stay dead. They are useful even in high sec, when you have a station that block easy jumping. You put a undock insta in line with the station exit and jump to it, then you turn in the gate direction.
Xykanth Roldeir	Posted - 2008.02.20 07:50:00 - [45] I can understand how such insta's are useful. But when every player has to have dozens of bm's to undock from every station it starts to sound like the glory database lag days of insta's. I would like to see as well for stations especially ones that are so busy that you end up leaving station in one of many directions. Instead of everyone getting spat out the bottom of the station you may end up comming out the top.
Cpt Pugwash Rubra Libertas Militia Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.20 08:08:00 - [46] Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 15/02/2008 20:08:20 On sisi, it is impossible to insta-undock from the station. The reason why is that when you now undock, causes you to curve off at some random angle from the station undock. This means that you will never be able to be aligned for an undock bookmark. In addition you dont stop when you come out of the undock so if it is a staiton with a small dock radius or you get blackscreened, you could easily be out of range of redocking before you find out the opponent has an interdictor there. I can understand how random angles and not stopping could be useful for the undocking log jam in Jita but this is a game breaker for 0.0. It means that you cant undock if there is as much as a single interceptor with a point, you will be caught. There is no more need to use a bubble on the station to stop people. This would represent a massive shift in gameplay and i dont think this should make it to live. Before complaining about this mechanic you think is broken Rells, how about complaining about the broken mechanic your members are exploiting. Or are Agony giving certs in, Jumping through a gate and logging to avoid the camp they find waiting for them, now? The undocking games played by such as yourself have gone on to long. put a window in the stations and eject people at range. Movies: Make Mine a Bob Light
sausauge meat	Posted - 2008.02.20 08:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Cpt Pugwash Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 15/02/2008 20:08:20 On sisi, it is impossible to insta-undock from the station. The reason why is that when you now undock, causes you to curve off at some random angle from the station undock. This means that you will never be able to be aligned for an undock bookmark. In addition you dont stop when you come out of the undock so if it is a staiton with a small dock radius or you get blackscreened, you could easily be out of range of redocking before you find out the opponent has an interdictor there. I can understand how random angles and not stopping could be useful for the undocking log jam in Jita but this is a game breaker for 0.0. It means that you cant undock if there is as much as a single interceptor with a point, you will be caught. There is no more need to use a bubble on the station to stop people. This would represent a massive shift in gameplay and i dont think this should make it to live. Before complaining about this mechanic you think is broken Rells, how about complaining about the broken mechanic your members are exploiting. Or are Agony giving certs in, Jumping through a gate and logging to avoid the camp they find waiting for them, now? The undocking games played by such as yourself have gone on to long. put a window in the stations and eject people at range. Yup, 100% agree with pugwash here tbh, lol @ an Agony whine
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.02.20 15:09:00 - [48] The undocking that throws you outside docking range is fine provided we get information on local space around the station before undocking. The overview could retain some functionality while inside station, or it could be one of the station services that acts like a ship scanner. Either way, this is something that's been requested for years, and is needed regardless of undocking mechanics. ...
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:29:00 - [49] Originally by: Cpt Pugwash Before complaining about this mechanic you think is broken Rells, how about complaining about the broken mechanic your members are exploiting. Or are Agony giving certs in, Jumping through a gate and logging to avoid the camp they find waiting for them, now? The undocking games played by such as yourself have gone on to long. put a window in the stations and eject people at range. First, I don't fly with Agony, never have, don't know any of them, second I've never logged off to avoid a fight. It is hard to blame people for docking up or logging off when they've no chance at survival. Too much of Eve PVP is gank PVP, where the victim has no chance of survival. Bad game mechanics on one side of the equation, the mechanics that make ganks possible, are being overcome by bad mechanics on the other side, log off and docking games. Half the ship nerfs and other stuff we see would not be needed if Eve PVP had more equitable mechanics where session changes are involved, gates and undocking. Insta undocks are a way to mitigate these bad mechanics, a way to even the playing field, if it is taken away, then there will be less people willing to undock and even try to fight or run away, it'll be safer to stay docked. That can't be good for the game. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Nhaz Damage Unlimited Inc Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.20 20:55:00 - [50] this is a great change for high sec and low sec. this is a terrible change for station owning alliances. someone argued that the station shouldn't be part of your tank. In 0.0 yes the station IS a part of your tank. But I agree the If this is pushed upon us. There Must be a window to look outside. Sorry, without knowing whats happening outside with this change people will simply Not undock until there is no hostiles in system. which is exactly the opposite of combat really. _____________________________________________ It's NOT paranoia, If they REALLY ARE out to get you!

Zarad	Posted - 2008.02.20 22:00:00 - [51] Great Change!!
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.02.20 22:18:00 - [52] YAY Originally by: High Sierra note to self: dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.21 03:28:00 - [53] Edited by: Rells on 21/02/2008 03:29:04 Originally by: Xykanth Roldeir Edited by: Xykanth Roldeir on 20/02/2008 07:41:13 People still have instas? I thought those were all nerfed to unusable status over a year ago. During my days in 0.0 I had never even heard of Insta undocks. I agree that there should be a way to check for hostiles outside of station before undocking. But insta's must die and stay dead. I like the statements another player made about engagements right at docking range. I like the idea if you took damage say during the last 10 seconds you can't dock. Another idea is ships within say like a 5km radius of the station cannot lock. Adjust the anti lock range as might be appriate maybe even up to 15km. Both of your suggestions encourage station ganking and blobbing. All you need is to shoot the target and he can never dock. Such a thing would RADICALLY change the mechanics of the game. The issue isn't so much even the undocks as much as it is, once again, Eve devs seemingly making a change without considering its wider impact. Such a change to undocking and docking would radically change PVP mechanics and encourage yet more scan alts and other things used to circumvent poor design issues.
Skyr ECP Rogues The Reckoning.