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Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
135
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Posted - 2012.02.17 04:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tech 3 Frigates should be a cheap way to get the t3 experience, and a way for hardcore frigate pilots to use their speedy boats in PVE. Cause that's where the current lineup suffers. Kinda like marauders are for L4, gear them towards chaining l3 missions really amazingly fast. Lowsec exploration and ratting would be a shoe in as well. Let's say 50m for the hull, 3 subsystems (no need for 5 on a frig), and some kind of hideous weakness to pvp. We really don't need uber frigates breaking the pvp balance atm, which is delicate enough as it is. |
ClusterFook
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2012.02.17 07:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Xorv wrote: I really dislike the idea that cost becomes a major factor in balance. .
I got a huge kick out of that statement. Cost has always been a balancing factor and is what drives ALL conflict in EVE. Why else would poeple fight over isk... so they can buy the expensive shinys and caps. This is why you see 10x more drakes than Tengus even though the Tengu is vastly superoir. If cost was not a balancing factor everyone would be in T3's, super caps and cyno ships. Everything would be Officer fitted and the game would boring as hell.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.02.17 07:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cov ops Cloak + Bubble immune cruisers are annoying enough and very hard to catch. Now you want to make a frig that does that?
WTB bubbles that actually stop ships from warping.
Also, T3 frigates are a horrible idea just like EAF ships were a horrible idea. But everyone wanted them and quickly found out how horrible they are and now they are non-existent.
We have plenty of frigates to cover every role. We need T2 versions of all of the BS and BC ships, maybe a T2 Maelstrom that can use 8x XL guns and wreck capitals. Something new with a different role that you have to actually risk on the battlefield. |
HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
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Posted - 2012.02.17 07:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
There are 60+ frigates already in game and at least two thirds of them are worthless. The last thing we need is more of them. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
524
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Posted - 2012.02.17 10:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
ISK sink Industry boost Something fun to train for (again and again) Shiny (as in oooh, that shiny and shiny, lets be bad guys) Snazzyness Tech III guns (small, later medium, oh joy!) Tech III modules Evolution General humour
oh and someone said:
Interdiction nullifier
Saying there are already 60 frigs in game and 2/3's are useless, is saying there are only 20 frigs in game and only a few are worth wild, so basicly we need more. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Brunmunde Hildegaard
The Green Machine
6
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Posted - 2012.02.17 10:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Xorv wrote: I really dislike the idea that cost becomes a major factor in balance. . So ships should all be free, no one should need to farm isk to have them, and the only balance factor should be the easily offline trainable skillsets to use them, amidoinitrite?
http://i.qkme.me/35d9dm.jpg "Sings me a dances of wolfs, who smells fear and slays the coward. Sings me a dances of mans, who smells gold and slays his brother." |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
215
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
Why not introduce a T4 ship instead? Same as flexibility as T3 but also possibility to be frigate, cruiser or battleship size.
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
215
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
T5 is the real winner though. Modelled after the T4 ships it can choose between four different racial core systems of different turrets/launcher/drones/ewar and tank fitting and bonuses.
Why obsolete a handful of ships when you could do it to dussins or even hundreds? |
Bischopt
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
71
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
As someone who flies and loses frigates almost exclusively (yes really, go check my killboard) , I would like to have T3 frigs in eve.
I imagine them being just like T3 cruisers, just frig sized. Customizable, unpredictable, able to travel deep into nullsec relatively safely. Do I want to see a new dramiel, something so overpowered it's the only thing anyone's ever going to use? No, I do not. Losing a dramiel was simple because it was only a T1 frigate. With T3 frigates I assume there would be SP loss involved with the destruction of the ship. It's also quite safe to assume that T3 frigs would be expensive which should limit their use in pvp especially. I live in a fairly busy part of lowsec and I must say that the only T3 cruisers I see are probing alts and mission runners. There aren't many of them around actually doing pvp so I think the same would go for T3 frigs as well.
The most important thing to remember is that they're just frigs after all. frigs cant withstand medium or heavy neuts (except maybe the cruor) and they cant survive great alpha or gate guns. Frigs are thin, have horrible cap and they die. Same would go for the T3 frigs.
So... Some nullsec peeps will get annoyed when they cant catch everything with a bubble? Even more reason to get some T3 frigs.
Personally even if the T3 frigs cannot fit interdiction nullifiers I would want one because of the customizability and flexibility. Right now the only question when fighting a frigate is whether they're short range or long range which you can usually see just by looking at their guns. Because frigs have very limited amounts of slots available they must be fit in a specific way. ofc there's usually a choice between kity and brawly fits but most of the time you dont get to choose if it's shield or armor fit, for example. You dont get to choose the ewar either because there's no room for it. I'm hoping T3 frigs could change this and give more frigs the advantage of unpredictability.
Having said all that, I do hope that if CCP actually does T3 frigs they do it carefully. The risk of having one must be great enough considering the reward so every belt and planet in eve doesnt become dominated by overpowered frigates.
But that's just me.
TL;DR T3 frigs are still only frigs and done right their only "downside" is that they would annoy people who are too lazy to catch stuff with an actual point. For frig pilots they would be very exciting. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
156
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dessau wrote:Let me begin by saying that, as someone who flies frigates almost exclusively, I am not in favor of T3 frigates.
First, there is already a wealth of frigates which can be fit to excel in a number of highly specialized roles. T1s can be fit as throwaway DPS, decoys, boosters, pursuit, tackle, painters, dampers, jammers, and then there are specialized EAFs, Assault Ships, Covert Ops, Stealth Bombers, Interceptors.
What role(s) are you looking for a T3 to fill that existing ships don't already?
Second, assuming for the time being that T3 frigates would use subsystems, frigate models are small. I am having a hard time visualizing a frigate-sized ship with 5 sets of interchangeable, modular hull components that does not look like an absolute mess.
How would you reconcile the T3 frigate visual design with the existing T3 Strat Cruiser designs? Would you take T3 design (either in terms of visuals, game mechanics, or both) in a different direction when it comes to frigates?
For those who back the idea of T3 frigates, I'm interested in hearing your reasoning on the topic. Perhaps they are a good idea and I simply have not seen the light.
Also, posting this in General Discussion like a ******* so I can get more responses.
I want T3 frigates for the same reason i fly T3 cruisers. They are more versitile in that they can fill multiple roles but you can also fit them specific if you want.
T3 cruisers generally have a better tank and dps that HAC's and they can use one of the specialized abilities of T2 cruisers like how the Proteus uses the Arazu's long point range, so it's not out of the question to expect T3 frigates to be better that some T2 ships.
I want to make a frigate gun boat that can cloak and do around 350-400 dps instead of using a stealth bomber, as i never fit a launcher to my bomber anyway.
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Kalpel
KBM
1
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hikaru Kuroda wrote:Variety is always a good thing in EVE, and frigates needs a lot of development love.
QFT
You failed to target nothing!-áGëívGëí online |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
13
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
I see a greater need for Tech3 Mining/Industrial ships than Frigates.
There are few places where Mining is a safe profession now. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
137
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Posted - 2012.02.17 11:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: I want T3 frigates for the same reason i fly T3 cruisers. They are more versitile in that they can fill multiple roles but you can also fit them specific if you want.
T3 cruisers generally have a better tank and dps that HAC's and they can use one of the specialized abilities of T2 cruisers like how the Proteus uses the Arazu's long point range, so it's not out of the question to expect T3 frigates to be better that some T2 ships.
You're not serious right?
Surely you see how and why the current T3's are rather broken and rather do upset the balance of the game?
T3's were meant be more versatile, they were never meant to out DPS HACS or obsolete CS's, yet they pretty much have because they're not just "jack of all trades, master of none" they're "jack of all, master of all".
Hell, I've just set a Legion up for exploration and it's better than a dedicated T2 scanning ship! (Electronic Subsystem V is 4 days vs ~21 for Cov Ops V).
We really don't need T3 Frigates if CCP do the same as they've done with the Strategic cruisers. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
35
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Posted - 2012.02.17 12:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
Would rather have Strategic Destroyers. Larger sig than frigates. Not modifiable into interceptor speeds with ABs. As would happen if they kept bonuses in parallel of strategic cruiser subsystems. 3 subsystems. At minimum 1x skill speed would keep it under the time requirements of the cruisers. Defensive & Electronics Propulsion & Engineering Offensive Some might think 3 subs would lead to fewer options. Yet the vast majority only use t3 cruiser in three main rolls as it is. Explorer, dps (counting pvp and pve), booster. Smaller t3 would definitely not boost. nor will they be big enough to help in a hole larger than c1 or c2. Apart from scanning purely to scout, you are looking at a pvp ship, despite someone rigging it up to run lvl3s or some such nonsense. Unique to this class are several options. I could see this t3 built to:
- Find cloaks
- Bubble the unbubbleable. a t3 counter to other t3s.
- Mine (the explosive variety) ship.
- Fleet point-defense vs bomb and missile attacks. (fixed defender missile system)
Apart from run and gun, you would have multiple support rolls not filled by any other ship. New rolls, more chances someone will get killed. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
158
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Posted - 2012.02.17 12:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Buzzmong wrote:Rek Seven wrote: I want T3 frigates for the same reason i fly T3 cruisers. They are more versitile in that they can fill multiple roles but you can also fit them specific if you want.
T3 cruisers generally have a better tank and dps that HAC's and they can use one of the specialized abilities of T2 cruisers like how the Proteus uses the Arazu's long point range, so it's not out of the question to expect T3 frigates to be better that some T2 ships.
You're not serious right? Surely you see how and why the current T3's are rather broken and rather do upset the balance of the game? T3's were meant be more versatile, they were never meant to out DPS HACS or obsolete CS's, yet they pretty much have because they're not just "jack of all trades, master of none" they're "jack of all, master of all". Hell, I've just set a Legion up for exploration and it's better than a dedicated T2 scanning ship! (Electronic Subsystem V is 4 days vs ~21 for Cov Ops V). We really don't need T3 Frigates if CCP do the same as they've done with the Strategic cruisers.
OMG a 500+ million isk ship is better at scanning that a 25 million is frigate... Who would have though it?!
That's the balance that a lot of ppl for get. I'm much more willing to use a HAC in PVP than i am using T3's because it's not as devastating to my wallet if i lose one and i don't lose any skill points. |
Varesk
Carried Hate
36
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Posted - 2012.02.17 13:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
They need to finish the T3 cruisers first. Still waiting on the 5th subsystem. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
137
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Posted - 2012.02.17 13:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:OMG a 500+ million isk ship is better at scanning that a 25 million is frigate... Who would have though it?!
That's the balance that a lot of ppl for get. I'm much more willing to use a HAC in PVP than i am using T3's because it's not as devastating to my wallet if i lose one and i don't lose any skill points.
So, by your logic, a multiple billion Titan should be able to wtfpwn every other ship in Eve barring fellow Titans?
After all, it's the most expensive.
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
216
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Posted - 2012.02.17 13:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:OMG a 500+ million isk ship is better at scanning that a 25 million is frigate... Who would have though it?!
That's the balance that a lot of ppl for get. I'm much more willing to use a HAC in PVP than i am using T3's because it's not as devastating to my wallet if i lose one and i don't lose any skill points. Some of us wants variety in this game where the choice of ship depends on the role it is supposed to fill and not just on available ISK. |
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
232
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Posted - 2012.02.17 14:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:There are 60+ frigates already in game and at least two thirds of them are worthless. The last thing we need is more of them. +1
I wonder what's the use of new ships if 75% of the old ones are never used anyway and will even be used less because of newer, better ships ..... I'd rather have them balance the existing ships!! |
Borascus
Hole Diggers
29
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Posted - 2012.02.17 14:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
The implementation of Tech-3 Frigates (and all other ship classes) could cause the PvE problem. If you have an indestructible ship, that can rinse ISK out of NPC's it might create the PVE problem.
The PVE Problem
Factor in the speciality of T2 vs the survivability of the T3 Frigate - roams of 10 T3 frigates, have less losses. Then you complain about ISK Faucets and redundant in-game technology.
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Fierceshot
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.02.17 14:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
I would much rather have a T3 destroyer.
Game needs a larger variety of destroyers imo. |
Wacktopia
Noir.
188
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Posted - 2012.02.17 14:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:I see a greater need for Tech3 Mining/Industrial ships than Frigates.
There are few places where Mining is a safe profession now.
Yeah industrial and exploration T3 would be interesting.
And....
There are few places where Mining is a safe profession now. There are few places where PI is a safe profession now. There are few places where Hauling is a safe profession now. There are few places where Pirating is a safe profession now. There are few places where Bounty Hunting is a safe profession now. There are few places where PVEing is a safe profession now.
Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67574 Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
158
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Posted - 2012.02.17 15:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:I see a greater need for Tech3 Mining/Industrial ships than Frigates.
There are few places where Mining is a safe profession now.
I agree. I could take T3 frigs or leave them but T3 industrial ships could drastically improve the industrial side of the game, especially for the miners out there.
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Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
660
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Posted - 2012.02.17 15:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
T3's were only introduced to give people a reason to live in wormholes
pay no attention to them being better and cheaper and easier to fly than their T2 bretheren
JUST SAY NO TO T3 FRIGATES (or anymore T3 anything)
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Diablo Ex
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote: ..."a horrible idea just like EAF ships were a horrible idea. But everyone wanted them and quickly found out how horrible they are and now they are non-existent."
Excuse me?
My Kitzune is a very popular item with my FC while doing small fleet roams in lowsec. AFK Psy Ops Command Cyno-Cloaky Brings it to you - Any Time - Hot and Fresh |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
491
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
I, too, fly a lot of frigates. The variety (particularly among T2 ones) is rather astounding. However, frigates do not usually thrive on minmaxing attributes. Some of the best examples of frigates -- the Rifter, the new Harpy, the Dramiel -- owe their usefulness to the fact that they are "all around good". Often the way you describe a frigate is "it's very good at ~insert thing here~ but it sucks at ~insert thing here~." The Kitsune is very good at jamming, but it sucks at staying alive. The Punisher is very good at tanking, but sucks at dealing damage.
I have never flown a T3 cruiser, but from what I understand, T3s are designed to be all around good at the role they are playing. If T3 frigates are implemented in the same way, that would result in omgwtfbbqpwn frigates.
Personally, I would love to fly something like that. I would spend giant piles of ISK for it, too. It might even turn out to be good for wormholes, for creating more demand for sleeper gear. However, stepping back, I'm not sure the frigate PvP scene needs T3 frigs... at least, not at this juncture.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1014
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
I would be more interested in a T3 destroyer hull with 3 subsystems. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
99
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Posted - 2012.02.17 21:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Brunmunde Hildegaard wrote:Xorv wrote: I really dislike the idea that cost becomes a major factor in balance. . So ships should all be free, no one should need to farm isk to have them, and the only balance factor should be the easily offline trainable skillsets to use them, amidoinitrite?
No you would be doing it wrong. You overlooked the part where I said major factor, for I did not say it shouldn't be a factor at all.
Then again I wouldn't mind a new ship, perhaps a frigate with bomber DPS and cloak, AF tank, Interceptor speed, that interdiction nulifier, oh some ewar bonuses.. and large drone bay on top.. I like drones.. nearly forget probe bonus as well please. We can make it cost a billion or so ISK, that's way more than any other frigate so that's balanced right? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
508
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Posted - 2012.02.17 21:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Then again I wouldn't mind a new ship, perhaps a frigate with bomber DPS and cloak, AF tank, Interceptor speed, that interdiction nulifier, oh some ewar bonuses.. and large drone bay on top.. I like drones.. nearly forget probe bonus as well please. We can make it cost a billion or so ISK, that's way more than any other frigate so that's balanced right? Here, have a Machariel. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Valei Khurelem
330
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Posted - 2012.02.17 21:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
If they just stuck with Tech 1 ships and items only CCP MIGHT have had a chance at keeping this game balanced, but no, they had to go with the ph4t l3wt side of gaming to keep idiots addicted to piling as much as they can into their item bays until they finally get bored and leave.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
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