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Night Doc
Orekaria
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:14:00 -
[1]
That is what a guy in Blizzard says: http://wow.curse.com/articles/details/6841/
Not important at all... they only have 62% of the world MMORPG share.
So that guy and his company must be crazy. You at CCP, are the guys that realy know about this kind of things.
- Target analysis - Fit EVE to screen - EFT setup sort |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:15:00 -
[2]
Because all games should be like WoW right?
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Night Doc
Orekaria
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:17:00 -
[3]
1 minute to read an article...
You are one of the smarts, I see.
I'm not a fanboy nor fundamentalist of no one, sorry - Target analysis - Fit EVE to screen - EFT setup sort |
Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:27:00 -
[4]
While I dislike WoW (especially its art direction), Blizzard does know a thing or two.
Originally by: Article He then talked a bit about Balance, and the never-ending struggle of "Math-vs.-Fun." Blizzard deals with it all the time, and Pardo tells his designers, "Don't use the math to balance the game into mediocrity."
"You need to play the game" he said, when discussing understanding each and every nuance of a game; this is crucial to a designer actually being capable of contributing to a fun, engaging experience.
I really agree with this. __________
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:27:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/02/2008 19:28:25
Blizzard gave teens what they wanted, so... much like TV teen drama shows. Zero content, nice looks.
I dont think WoW is a better game FOR ME just because 10 million people play it.
--- Its dead, Jim.
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BackdoorGirl
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:27:00 -
[6]
gb2wow
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Erikel
Cosmic Odyssey Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:27:00 -
[7]
Yes they have 62% of the world MMORPG share and they also have 98% of the arse minkeys.
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Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:31:00 -
[8]
I approve of this thread's title and any possible iterations thereof.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We won't laugh at you... to your face...
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Proazatica
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:54:00 -
[9]
Blizzard markets to kids. Easily 75% if not more of it's client base is under 21.
EvE and other games that require more thought are marketed to more mature audiences. Sure, kids play, but not in the masses you see in WoW. While Eve isn't the toughest game out there, it requires much more planning and attention than WoW does, as do most PvP games.
Everquest had over 50% of the MMORPG market a few years ago, where is it now?
And remember: Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's the best...
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Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sokratesz Because all games should be like WoW right?
Yes. They should strive to run Eve like WoW is ran. We would be playing a MUCH better version of Eve if Blizzard owned it.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Flamewave While I dislike WoW (especially its art direction), Blizzard does know a thing or two.
Originally by: Article He then talked a bit about Balance, and the never-ending struggle of "Math-vs.-Fun." Blizzard deals with it all the time, and Pardo tells his designers, "Don't use the math to balance the game into mediocrity."
"You need to play the game" he said, when discussing understanding each and every nuance of a game; this is crucial to a designer actually being capable of contributing to a fun, engaging experience.
I really agree with this.
Me too.
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.02.22 19:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/02/2008 19:59:03
Originally by: Ethen Bejorn We would be playing a MUCH better version of Eve if Blizzard owned it.
Blizzard couldnt handle a real MMO so they made a online arcade game instead. :)
Then again, I wouldnt complain if they made Starcraft into a proper MMO.
--- Its dead, Jim.
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Night Doc
Orekaria
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Posted - 2008.02.22 20:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Proazatica Blizzard markets to kids. Easily 75% if not more of it's client base is under 21.
EvE and other games that require more thought are marketed to more mature audiences. Sure, kids play, but not in the masses you see in WoW. While Eve isn't the toughest game out there, it requires much more planning and attention than WoW does, as do most PvP games.
Everquest had over 50% of the MMORPG market a few years ago, where is it now?
And remember: Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's the best...
Sure, planning... thats this post about...
I'm sure, you know about this: lets say you spend 6 months trying to get that skills you need. You get them. You are so happy. Then CCP changes something cause balancing, or whatever. Then you get frustrated. Now repeat and repeat this "sado" behavior. Another example. Lets say you build a cementery with a very hard work because the laws of the persistent world let you do it. CCP changes something. You get wtf?
There is no sure planning in EVE. EVE is not a persistent world at the moment.
Mature? Maybe players are mature. But not this "persistent" world.
- Target analysis - Fit EVE to screen - EFT setup sort |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.02.22 20:15:00 -
[14]
Funny, if you read the WoW forums everybody is even more wound up and rabid about balance issues and nerfs than here.
Quote: They should strive to run Eve like WoW is ran. We would be playing a MUCH better version of Eve if Blizzard owned it.
It would be more polished and less buggy. Of course, it's not likely it would be anywhere near as interesting either, if it existed at all. Among other things, I really couldn't see Blizzard even attempting a single shard game until the technology was more developed and the path had been pioneered by a few other companies.
CCP is that disheveled, crazy as a coot, funny smelling, wild eyed pioneer. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Proazatica
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Posted - 2008.02.22 20:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Night Doc
Sure, planning... thats this post about...
I'm sure, you know about this: lets say you spend 6 months trying to get that skills you need. You get them. You are so happy. Then CCP changes something cause balancing, or whatever. Then you get frustrated. Now repeat and repeat this "sado" behavior. Another example. Lets say you build a cementery with a very hard work because the laws of the persistent world let you do it. CCP changes something. You get wtf?
There is no sure planning in EVE. EVE is not a persistent world at the moment.
Mature? Maybe players are mature. But not this "persistent" world.
So why don't you go make your own game then? Maybe then you'd stfu and stop *****ing.
EVERY game goes through changes. EVERY game has nerfs, WoW included. Not one online game in existence hasn't had some sort of issue with nerfing/balancing/fixing bugs. Not one. They're so complex it would probably fry your little brain.
Get over it. Or better yet, get up, out of that chair, and go outside and do something constructive. Me? I can post cus I'm at work.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.02.22 20:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Proazatica Blizzard markets to kids. Easily 75% if not more of it's client base is under 21.
EvE and other games that require more thought are marketed to more mature audiences. Sure, kids play, but not in the masses you see in WoW. While Eve isn't the toughest game out there, it requires much more planning and attention than WoW does, as do most PvP games.
Everquest had over 50% of the MMORPG market a few years ago, where is it now?
And remember: Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's the best...
Yay for pulling numbers out of ass.
Quote:
From the survey data, the average age of the WoW player is 28.3 (SD = 8.4). 84% of players are male. 16% are female. Female players are significantly older (M = 32.5, SD = 10.0) than male players (M = 28.0, SD = 8.4). On average, they spend 22.7 (SD = 14.1) hours per week playing WoW. There are no gender differences in hours played per week.
Source, this article.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.02.22 20:44:00 -
[17]
Edited by: SoftRevolution on 22/02/2008 20:45:43 WoW managed to massively expand the demographic for MuMORPuGuhs.
It dethroned Everquest. edit - Oh lord I am sorry for trying to corrupt the forumgoers with talk of fissures.
What's especially remarkable is that it did basically nothing hugely new as far as I can see.
It's success was all about the clever design decisions.
Yeah. I think Blizzard know what they're talking about. EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Faife
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:09:00 -
[18]
it matches eve. eve releases big patches about once a year, and WoW does minor point releases as well, like changing damage of given attacks by a few percent points.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:44:00 -
[19]
EVE is not WoW
The day we see elves in space is the day i quit EVE. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 The day we see elves in space is the day i quit EVE.
You should probably quantify that. Me, I say bring the skimpy outfits and the curves, but no pointy ears TYVM. Which, judging by the few Ambulation screenshots that I've seen, is what they're doing, more or less. Although, I don't see how we can craft said outfits... what are they made of, tritanium? Moon minerals?
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:03:00 -
[21]
Sylramic Fibers of course.
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:17:00 -
[22]
As long as they skip the pointy ears and they don't use bows and arrows or any of that WoW crap it's all good. I mean skimpy outfits are ok
I was thinking about making a comment about comparing minmatars and orcs but lets not _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:26:00 -
[23]
Too bad the title got cut off since that hits a true spot. Here it is:
Quote: If you change things too often, or change things all the time, players will start using you as a crutch.
CCPs nerfbat is your crutch. And I say that not having been affected by any nerfing so far. (knock on wood)
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 I was thinking about making a comment about comparing minmatars and orcs but lets not
Ya, really, let's not. In fact, let's not make this a thread about WoW or Blizzard Entertainment, because the OP didn't make a thread about those topics.
The OP is referring to when the blizz guy says changing stuff too often is a bad thing 'cause players start using the devs as a crutch. I used to play WoW, played for a long time 'cause I didn't know there was anything better. Then I discovered EVE-Online through a banner add on a wowhead.com article about some raid or another. Anyway, details not important.
When I played WoW, I saw millions of whine threads about how some thing or another was overpowered.
With every patch, blizz nerfed something and buffed something else and called it balance, when in fact they just made something else overpowered, creating the next million whine threads.
When PvP happened and people lost, suddenly it was because they had been nerfed or the other guy was "OP". Not because they actually lost. Not because somebody pwnt their faces. It was all because blizz nerfed something or made something else "OP".
I've read back through this forum a lot since I started playing 4 months ago... I've actually seen page 40 in a couple of the forum's sections. I don't see as much crying here before things get nerfed, but I see plenty of complaining after stuff gets nerfed. I like that about this game... things do change, but they don't seem to change as a result of every whine thread that pops up.
Lately, though, seems CCP has been making alot of changes, some good and some bad... if I understand the OP correctly, he means to caution the dev team against changing too much. He is in effect saying that the game is largely FINE the way it IS.
I fully endorse this product/service. WoW used to win, then they changed it so much, watered it down so much, DUMBED it down so much, and it failed. Now I'm here. EVE wins. Apparently it's been winning for a long time and I just hadn't heard about it. Don't dumb this game down so much that it begins to fail as well... I don't think there's anywhere else I COULD go if I lost my EvE-O.
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Night Doc
Orekaria
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Posted - 2008.02.23 10:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Havohej if I understand the OP correctly, he means to caution the dev team against changing too much. He is in effect saying that the game is largely FINE the way it IS.
Thanks a lot, Havohej.
That was my intention. Lets look ahead. Free the most of the micro-adjusters of ships/modules/whatever and put them to work in the gameplay issues (avoid load screens, etc). The game will never be balanced. In fact, I really doubt that players would want the game to be perfectly balanced. Nothing in the real world is balanced. Why would we want that in a "dark and harash world"?.
What about a declaration of the EVE's basic laws?. Kind of the gravity law and so. Would it be a crazy idea?. Laws to make EVE have a "real" basement.
I.E (and please, focus on the idea, not the content): ships/modules/skills, etc could be adjusted in the first 6 months of its existence. After that, they will stay unchanged forever.
- Target analysis - Fit EVE to screen - EFT setup sort |
Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.02.23 11:46:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kerfira on 23/02/2008 11:48:02
Originally by: Night Doc ....ships/modules/skills, etc could be adjusted in the first 6 months of its existence. After that, they will stay unchanged forever.
This is not possible, unless you stop adding content!
New content inevitably requires old content to be adjusted to fit, otherwise you'll not get the new content!
While it is true to some extent that frequent changes annoys players, so does an unbalanced game. FOTM ships will need to be adjusted if they're TOO good, since if one setup is so much better than others, the game will loose variety as everybody will use that setup. Likewise changes will be required as more people start playing, less people start playing, a large group of players start playing in another way etc. etc., ie. every time significant game affecting parameters change.
WoW is also a fairly static game where you move between sets of static content as you progress up through the levels until you reach endgame. There doesn't need to be many changes as players will not be in the same content for long thus it doesn't matter if gameplay for Lvl 10-20 doesn't get expanded. WoW expansions add to the endgame. EVE is an entirely different game where you live within the same gameplay from the start. You gain new abilities as you train and play, but apart from L1-3 missions the general content of the game stays the same. EVE expansions add to the whole game. Major differences.....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Orgos Khenn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.23 12:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Night Doc That is what a guy in Blizzard says: http://wow.curse.com/articles/details/6841/
Not important at all... they only have 62% of the world MMORPG share.
So that guy and his company must be crazy. You at CCP, are the guys that realy know about this kind of things.
Not as well as you do, apparently. ---- One day...one day General will be worth reading.
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Seatoo
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.23 12:26:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Seatoo on 23/02/2008 12:26:51 lol wow sucks for pvp
pve it beats the heck outta eve but i like eve better :3
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.23 13:03:00 -
[29]
* "mods are bad when they play the game for you," he said. A short pause occurred and he then finished, "outside of that, all mods are good."
* struggle of "Math-vs.-Fun." Blizzard deals with it all the time, and Pardo tells his designers, "Don't use the math to balance the game into mediocrity."
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.02.23 14:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Night Doc That is what a guy in Blizzard says: http://wow.curse.com/articles/details/6841/
Not important at all... they only have 62% of the world MMORPG share.
So that guy and his company must be crazy. You at CCP, are the guys that realy know about this kind of things.
Quite a few of us are playing EvE precisely because it's not like WoW.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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