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MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:04:00 - [151] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan Originally by: MotherMoon oh no not that again, the privateers were using a system in a way that CCP didn't want it to be used. CCP WANT suicide ganking in the game. They don't want space to be safe. however declaring war on everyone just makes high sec a place you can shoot at anything and IGNORE conchord. goons are not doing this, they are losing ships. And by nerf what do you mean? They didn't STOP you privateers form wardecing everyone, they just made it more expensive. If anything CCP would make it more expensive. and trust me people would still do it. unlike privateers who couldn't take it because they sucked. CCP wanted wardecs in the game and they designed it the way the privateers used it they just took a existing game mechanic to the extreme but after the fuss and the cancelled subs and the whining reached a critical mass they pulled out the nerf hammer and put a stop to it. Just the same as the goons are using an existing mechanic to the extreme and when the cancelled subs and whining and fuss reaches its critical mass its probable they will do something about it as well. And I'm sure they wont directly stop it they make it more difficult or expensive like the privateer nerf, whether its a buffed concord or something idk. privateers were not declaring war on corporations. they were declaring war on EVERYONE. and the reason was because it protected them. CCP NEVER wanted someone to make highsafe safe for them to kill whoever they wanted, I have dev quotes, they got ****ed at privateers for using them.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:05:00 - [152] - Quote Originally by: Matthew Originally by: MotherMoon I see your point but I don't think it's the same :P Well, wasn't really trying to comment on whether there should be a change in this case, just that featuring in a news article is no guarantee in itself that you're safe from change. very true I take it back :P that is a flawed logic to use to back up my point.
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:08:00 - [153] - Quote Originally by: MotherMoon privateers were not declaring war on corporations. they were declaring war on EVERYONE. and the reason was because it protected them. CCP NEVER wanted someone to make highsafe safe for them to kill whoever they wanted, I have dev quotes, they got **ed at privateers for using them. Suicide ganking is the same, it allows a person to be as safe as everyone else in high sec until they choose to engage exactly the same way as the privateers could be selective about their wardecs. Originally by:** Malcanis Seriously, have you ever actually pressed F1 with something other than an asteroid locked?
SPIONKOP Caldari Imperial Technology	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:16:00 - [154] - Quote Originally by: karttoon Edited by: karttoon on 27/02/2008 21:24:48 Originally by: Lazarus Short I'm with Cameron Vayle on this: the day I get ganked, EVE loses at least one customer. 20 mil to anybody that pops him in a hulk or mackinaw. Eve mail me when it's done. Your such a nice chap. Dim, maybe a little stupid, not a lot between the ears I suspect and fail to see the big picture only your own selfish attitude. To you maybe a 100mil for a ship is lose change. To many who mine their butts of for weeks to afford such a ship its a lot, maybe all they have. For some mindless thug to take that away from them in "Safe" space is wrong. You only care about yourself, shame on you and shame on your alliance. When you get to school tomorrow I sure hope some big ass bully pays you a visit, see how you like it. Suicide Ganking in Empire will drive new players away and could affect the future of Eve. We need new players to replace those who leave. These days when an established player leaves for whatever reason, I suspect we lose more than just 1 account but at least 2 as established players tend to have multiple accounts. But I guess you don't give a **** about that do you? --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.
IlIlIlI lIlIlIl	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:16:00 - [155] - Quote Originally by: MotherMoon only ships getting suicide ganked are tech 2 mining barges. This. If I have picked you out as a target, you are not a newbie. You are flying a hulk or a mack. I lose security status with every kill, and must eventually go rat for a long time to regain it. If I have picked you out as a target, you are probably dead. With best possible skills, a hulk can align in 17 seconds. If you align to warp out 7 seconds BEFORE I enter the belt, you can get away. With realistic skills, align time is closer to 23 seconds, so you need to hit the warp button 13 seconds BEFORE I enter the belt. Basically, if you see me in belt, you're already dead. How do you avoid me? Look at our killboard. I operate in a very narrow band of security status. Man up and go to lowsec, or wimp out and stick to 0.8+.
Uncle George	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:19:00 - [156] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Originally by: MotherMoon only ships getting suicide ganked are tech 2 mining barges. This. If I have picked you out as a target, you are not a newbie. You are flying a hulk or a mack. I lose security status with every kill, and must eventually go rat for a long time to regain it. If I have picked you out as a target, you are probably dead. With best possible skills, a hulk can align in 17 seconds. If you align to warp out 7 seconds BEFORE I enter the belt, you can get away. With realistic skills, align time is closer to 23 seconds, so you need to hit the warp button 13 seconds BEFORE I enter the belt. Basically, if you see me in belt, you're already dead. How do you avoid me? Look at our killboard. I operate in a very narrow band of security status. Man up and go to lowsec, or wimp out and stick to 0.8+. I think the term "up yourself" is very appropriate here. I don't know what the rest of you think.....
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:20:00 - [157] - Quote Sad thing is that this will not deter macros in the slightest. Macros don't care if they get blown up; its a job, not a game. Legitimate players get ***ed and quit mining or quit playing. End result: Fewer "real" players in the belts, more macros. Since mining isn't an option and prices of ships and parts go up, more people willing to buy ISK. You are contributing to the problem of macros and ISK sellers, not stopping it. shrugs* Not that I really care anymore, my hulk parked months ago and isn't likely to undock again. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:22:00 - [158] - Quote I find it amusing how many people are acting like suicide ganking is something new in Eve. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:26:00 - [159] - Quote Originally by: SPIONKOP Originally by: karttoon Edited by: karttoon on 27/02/2008 21:24:48 Originally by: Lazarus Short I'm with Cameron Vayle on this: the day I get ganked, EVE loses at least one customer. 20 mil to anybody that pops him in a hulk or mackinaw. Eve mail me when it's done. Your such a nice chap. Dim, maybe a little stupid, not a lot between the ears I suspect and fail to see the big picture only your own selfish attitude. To you maybe a 100mil for a ship is lose change. To many who mine their butts of for weeks to afford such a ship its a lot, maybe all they have. For some mindless thug to take that away from them in "Safe" space is wrong. You only care about yourself, shame on you and shame on your alliance. When you get to school tomorrow I sure hope some big ass bully pays you a visit, see how you like it. Suicide Ganking in Empire will drive new players away and could affect the future of Eve. We need new players to replace those who leave. These days when an established player leaves for whatever reason, I suspect we lose more than just 1 account but at least 2 as established players tend to have multiple accounts. But I guess you don't give a **** about that do you? I've never seen a new player in a hulk. this will drive up prices and make the playing field more profitable more new players.
III LightBringer Okkelen Grave Robbers	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:29:00 - [160] - Quote Originally by: Ardan Tanir Edited by: Ardan Tanir on 27/02/2008 22:36:29 no it isnt a fake. all my money is transfered to a friend in the game. CCP is losing a costumer with 3 accounts tomorrow edit: and i am sure i will not be the only one who left the game. congrats goonie&s you realy won this game. time to take off the server cluster now. Well, maybe that will help on the lag issues. You loose your ships to an enemy on a grid that loads, and you come here to whine. No module lag. There are some slight load lag in some belts because miners are throwing in loads of GSC's. But you Ardan Tanir : Glad to see ya go. Have fun in WOW.

Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:32:00 - [161] - Quote Quote: I've never seen a new player in a hulk. this will drive up prices and make the playing field more profitable more new players. This. You don't have to mine in a hulk.
IlIlIlI lIlIlIl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:42:00 - [162] - Quote Ardan Tanir's final straw: http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=278 Mining veld. In a hulk. In highsec. I remember being a newbie looking for a way to make money in my shiny new bantam. I flew to a belt. No rocks. I flew to another belt. No rocks. If we chase out all the hulks, maybe there will be rocks for newbies.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:44:00 - [163] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Ardan Tanir's final straw: http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=278 Mining veld. In a hulk. In highsec. I remember being a newbie looking for a way to make money in my shiny new bantam. I flew to a belt. No rocks. I flew to another belt. No rocks. If we chase out all the hulks, maybe there will be rocks for newbies. shh stop using logic :P
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:48:00 - [164] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Ardan Tanir's final straw: http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=278 Mining veld. In a hulk. In highsec. I remember being a newbie looking for a way to make money in my shiny new bantam. I flew to a belt. No rocks. I flew to another belt. No rocks. If we chase out all the hulks, maybe there will be rocks for newbies. roflmao. With fits like that you hulk guys have no right to come here and complain. ffs a few dessys could probably have killed that one. This is a needed culling indeed. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:54:00 - [165] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Ardan Tanir's final straw: http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=278 Mining veld. In a hulk. In highsec. I remember being a newbie looking for a way to make money in my shiny new bantam. I flew to a belt. No rocks. I flew to another belt. No rocks. If we chase out all the hulks, maybe there will be rocks for newbies. Your not very consistent in your bull cookies are you? Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl I operate in a very narrow band of security status. Man up and go to lowsec, or wimp out and stick to 0.8+. Not many Newbie bantams leave 0.9-1.0 because their ships are made of tissue paper and cant handle the rats. Why is it you try to morally justify what you are doing? is it because you kinda feel in yourself that you might very well be overstepping the bounds? Your doing it because you want to do it for fun and its not for anyone except your corp bosses and CCP to tell you otherwise. So please explain the mother theresa act. Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, have you ever actually pressed F1 with something other than an asteroid locked?
faxtarious Kai-Zen inc.	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:58:00 - [166] - Quote locator agent ? save the 100k I'm Balgiana carebear Ex amamake dweller Mini chat extraordinair
SPIONKOP Caldari Imperial Technology	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:03:00 - [167] - Quote Originally by: MotherMoon I've never seen a new player in a hulk. this will drive up prices and make the playing field more profitable more new players. Your responce is flawed in several areas. New players who join the game as miners soon realise that training/saving for the best mining ship is not worth it. Their "end game" is taken away from them so some will not stay in the game for as long. Those new miners that insist on training for and flying hulks will soon lose interest when some ass hole blows them up in 0.7. Cost to agressor maybe 0.01% of his wealth, cost to hulk pilot, maybe everything? Sure prices will rise but its all relative isn't it. If the basic building blocks for all items goes up in price so does everything else, its called inflation. Whilst people may have more ISK in their wallet their "wealth" actually goes down as they can buy less with it. In the old days of eve risk/reward was the key to everthing. Now the risk/cost to the empire ganker is next to nothing. A few mill for the ship and insurance, nothing for players/alliances that have billions of isk as lose change. The player who just quit the game just lost everything. I wonder what would happen if empire became 0.0. No police, no sentrys? Is that what people want. I am sure it would be fun. For a while anyways. Ships would double/triple in cost. Within weeks player numbers would halve then halve again. You would have the hard core players left. Hardly anyone would mine. Ships/Ammo would soon run dry as the materials for building them dry up. Shuttle and NPC goods would be used as the raw materials but that would lead to ISK drying up. Soon there would be no one left to shoot. It would fix the lag problems I guess and jita would be quiet. End Game? --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:05:00 - [168] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Ardan Tanir's final straw: http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=278 Mining veld. In a hulk. In highsec. I remember being a newbie looking for a way to make money in my shiny new bantam. I flew to a belt. No rocks. I flew to another belt. No rocks. If we chase out all the hulks, maybe there will be rocks for newbies. Your not very consistent in your bull cookies are you? Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl I operate in a very narrow band of security status. Man up and go to lowsec, or wimp out and stick to 0.8+. Not many Newbie bantams leave 0.9-1.0 because their ships are made of tissue paper and cant handle the rats. Why is it you try to morally justify what you are doing? is it because you kinda feel in yourself that you might very well be overstepping the bounds? Your doing it because you want to do it for fun and its not for anyone except your corp bosses and CCP to tell you otherwise. So please explain the mother theresa act. THEY DON"T ATTACK ANYTHING BUT HULKS AND MACK! YOU ARE DUMB.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:06:00 - [169] - Quote Originally by: SPIONKOP Originally by: MotherMoon I've never seen a new player in a hulk. this will drive up prices and make the playing field more profitable more new players. Your responce is flawed in several areas. New players who join the game as miners soon realise that training/saving for the best mining ship is not worth it. Their "end game" is taken away from them so some will not stay in the game for as long. Those new miners that insist on training for and flying hulks will soon lose interest when some ass hole blows them up in 0.7. Cost to agressor maybe 0.01% of his wealth, cost to hulk pilot, maybe everything? Sure prices will rise but its all relative isn't it. If the basic building blocks for all items goes up in price so does everything else, its called inflation. Whilst people may have more ISK in their wallet their "wealth" actually goes down as they can buy less with it. In the old days of eve risk/reward was the key to everthing. Now the risk/cost to the empire ganker is next to nothing. A few mill for the ship and insurance, nothing for players/alliances that have billions of isk as lose change. The player who just quit the game just lost everything. I wonder what would happen if empire became 0.0. No police, no sentrys? Is that what people want. I am sure it would be fun. For a while anyways. Ships would double/triple in cost. Within weeks player numbers would halve then halve again. You would have the hard core players left. Hardly anyone would mine. Ships/Ammo would soon run dry as the materials for building them dry up. Shuttle and NPC goods would be used as the raw materials but that would lead to ISK drying up. Soon there would be no one left to shoot. It would fix the lag problems I guess and jita would be quiet. End Game? so what your saying is that with this goon thing it will be more pro*****ble to mine in low sec? because they aren't ganking players in low sec. why would anyone still be mining veld in a hulk?
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:07:00 - [170] - Quote Quote: New players who join the game as miners soon realise that training/saving for the best mining ship is not worth it. Their "end game" is taken away from them so some will not stay in the game for as long. Those new miners that insist on training for and flying hulks will soon lose interest when some ass hole blows them up in 0.7. Cost to agressor maybe 0.01% of his wealth, cost to hulk pilot, maybe everything? Problem 1: You think that every person who wants to mine must have a hulk, Problem 2: You think there is an "End game" in EVE, and that said end-game involves sitting in a hulk grinding to watch the wallet grow fatter. Problem 3: If the player put EVERYTHING HE HAD into his hulk, he did something wrong. When he loses it, it's his fault, not CCP's, and not the Goons'

Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:09:00 - [171] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan Edited by: AndrewRyan on 27/02/2008 23:03:47 Originally by: MotherMoon oh no not that again, the privateers were using a system in a way that CCP didn't want it to be used. CCP WANT suicide ganking in the game. They don't want space to be safe. however declaring war on everyone just makes high sec a place you can shoot at anything and IGNORE conchord. goons are not doing this, they are losing ships. And by nerf what do you mean? They didn't STOP you privateers form wardecing everyone, they just made it more expensive. If anything CCP would make it more expensive. and trust me people would still do it. unlike privateers who couldn't take it because they sucked. CCP wanted wardecs in the game and they designed it the way the privateers used it they just took a existing game mechanic to the extreme but after the fuss and the cancelled subs and the whining reached a critical mass they pulled out the nerf hammer and put a stop to it. Just the same as the goons are using an existing mechanic to the extreme and when the cancelled subs and whining and fuss reaches its critical mass its probable they will do something about it as well. And I'm sure they wont directly stop it they make it more difficult or expensive like the privateer nerf, whether its a buffed concord or something idk. Originally by: MotherMoon and didn't the goons just get told keep doing it by having a news post? Le Skunk posted a few weeks back that a news report was the nail in the coffin and hes been right so far lets see if hes right again. An possible reaction if it reach the critical mass would a reduction or voiding of insurance in Concord kills. No effects on alliance fights, limited effect on new players. It would **** off suicide gankers in high sec, but if really Goons are killing 100 hulks every couple of day it can happen. But for it to happen the hulk hunt need to continue for a long time.
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:09:00 - [172] - Quote Edited by: AndrewRyan on 28/02/2008 00:11:43 Originally by: MotherMoon THEY DON"T ATTACK ANYTHING BUT HULKS AND MACK! YOU ARE DUMB. Your the Dumb one, go read the news report and the goons kill board they are claiming to be ganking other ships and haulers as well. Besides wtf are you doing? why aren't you posting your usual attention whoring "olook evrye boyd! mi drunked!!" I took your arguments apart and you have resorted to personal name calling well done Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, have you ever actually pressed F1 with something other than an asteroid locked?
IlIlIlI lIlIlIl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:11:00 - [173] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan Why is it you try to morally justify what you are doing? CCP doesn't like the jihad schtick, I'm casting about for a new one. Quote: Your doing it because you want to do it for fun and its not for anyone except your corp bosses and CCP to tell you otherwise. I don't think you "get" goonfleet. On the other hand, I think that perhaps you're starting to "get" CCP. 1. I kill hulks and macks in a very narrow band of security status. 2. I'm a griefer in a game designed by griefers for griefers. 3. I've only got 1 kill left before I have to go repair security status, so I want to make it a good one.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:11:00 - [174] - Quote Edited by: Gamesguy on 28/02/2008 00:12:22 Originally by: SPIONKOP Your responce is flawed in several areas. New players who join the game as miners soon realise that training/saving for the best mining ship is not worth it. Their "end game" is taken away from them so some will not stay in the game for as long. Those new miners that insist on training for and flying hulks will soon lose interest when some ass hole blows them up in 0.7. Cost to agressor maybe 0.01% of his wealth, cost to hulk pilot, maybe everything? You know when I started this game I was introduced to it by by friends who were miners, and our only goal was to mine more an better, albeit in lowsec. Never at one point was anyone's end game goal a hulk. Everyone was a total newbie miner that only wanted to mine but we all wanted different stuff. My eventual goal was an amarr navy apoc, cause I thought it was the baddest motherfcker around. Never did get the navy apoc, by the time I could afford it I knew better. Hulks require so many lvl 5 skills that no way a newbie could possibly fly one. And mining in a battleship is very viable. Quote:* stuff you have clue about There is an old quote, pvpers can mine, but miners can't pvp. Many 0.0 aliances mine/refine/manufacture their own ships, ammo, equipment(less so for t2), etc. The highsec hulk population does nothing for the economy of eve tbqh. If lowend prices rise enough yet hulks keep dying. Then people would mine in covetors and apocs. And perhaps newbies in retreivers and ospreys would have a chance to make a profit instead of having all the ore already stripped from every belt from the horde of 10 acct hulk miners.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:12:00 - [175] - Quote Quote: Your the Dumb one, go read the news report and the goons kill board they are other ships and haulers as well Go read their killboard. They've killed 111 exhumers, 2 industrials and one mining barge.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:13:00 - [176] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan Edited by: AndrewRyan on 28/02/2008 00:11:43 Originally by: MotherMoon THEY DON"T ATTACK ANYTHING BUT HULKS AND MACK! YOU ARE DUMB. Your the Dumb one, go read the news report and the goons kill board they are claiming to be ganking other ships and haulers as well. Besides wtf are you doing? why aren't you posting your usual attention whoring "olook evrye boyd! mi drunked!!" I took your arguments apart and you have resorted to personal name calling well done rofl indeed
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:16:00 - [177] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Ardan Tanir's final straw: http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=278 Mining veld. In a hulk. In highsec. I remember being a newbie looking for a way to make money in my shiny new bantam. I flew to a belt. No rocks. I flew to another belt. No rocks. If we chase out all the hulks, maybe there will be rocks for newbies. Where the ... do you lived? In 2 years in EVE I have seen 1 (one) system stripmined bare. Even seen the corp that was doing it, no macro, no hulk (at that time they were still 500 mill), a lot of covetor, industrials and BS mining. BTW, my dear, people use tritanium to build. I have just mined 3 millions units, in my hulk, for my building needs, in a 0.5 system. There was ore with a better value, but I needed tritanium, not nocxium.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:18:00 - [178] - Quote Veld can be mined just as well in 1.0-.8
Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:20:00 - [179] - Quote Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Your the Dumb one, go read the news report and the goons kill board they are other ships and haulers as well Go read their killboard. They've killed 111 exhumers, 2 industrials and one mining barge. sinice monday click previous week to see the other kills.
SPIONKOP Caldari Imperial Technology	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:22:00 - [180] - Quote Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: New players who join the game as miners soon realise that training/saving for the best mining ship is not worth it. Their "end game" is taken away from them so some will not stay in the game for as long. Those new miners that insist on training for and flying hulks will soon lose interest when some ass hole blows them up in 0.7. Cost to agressor maybe 0.01% of his wealth, cost to hulk pilot, maybe everything? Problem 1: You think that every person who wants to mine must have a hulk, Problem 2: You think there is an "End game" in EVE, and that said end-game involves sitting in a hulk grinding to watch the wallet grow fatter. Problem 3: If the player put EVERYTHING HE HAD into his hulk, he did something wrong. When he loses it, it's his fault, not CCP's, and not the Goons' Most people who want to mine will choose to train for a hulk. It the best ship for empire mineral mining. It actually does not take that long to get the skills. The phrase "end game" may have been a poor choice, but everyone has aims in eve, For a miner that will proberably Hulk and when they achive that maybe they move on to another challange or CCP bring out a new mining ship. Mining in high sec is not exactly doing something wrong is it. THe goons attitude to hulk miners sucks and they have no ******* right to abuse the spirt of "high Sec" in such a way. Yes I blame Goons they are bullys and I blame CCP for letting this situation of Empire Ganking get out of hand for so long. The goons have no right to deny paying customers the ability to enjoy the game. Its harrasment and should be stopped. Their actions are once again damaging the reputation of a great game. They are bullys but CCP should also shoulder some of the blame for allowing it to continue. --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.

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