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Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:41:00 - [241] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Originally by: Thenoran If an entire Alliance Twelve guys in channel. Twelve. 12. The number of your fingers, plus your thumbs twice. Quote: is out to kill all the high-sec miners Just the ones in 0.5-0.7, in hulks or macks, preferably in ice belts. Plus the occasional random "dude why'd you kill that guy?" "hur hur, uh, because?" "ok, rock on" kill. Finally get my Mackinaw after all these months only to be shot at the first time I try to use it...great ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
SPIONKOP Caldari Imperial Technology	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:42:00 - [242] - Quote Originally by: MenanceWhite Edited by: MenanceWhite on 28/02/2008 01:27:02 Originally by: SPIONKOP The goons have no right to deny paying customers the ability to enjoy the game. Its harrasment and should be stopped. Their actions are once again damaging the reputation of a great game. They are bullys but CCP should also shoulder some of the blame for allowing it to continue. The carebear miners that do nothing but afkmine in empire has no right to deny paying customers the ability to enjoy the game by endlessly whining on the forums and requesting something fundamental in the game to be changed. It is harrasment and should be stopped. Their actions are once again damaging the reputation of a great game that allows the freedom of non-consensual PVP. They are bullys but CCP should also shoulder some of the blame for allowing it to continue. There was a fundemental aspect of the game known as risk/reward and this balance gave the game a sort of balance. Sure you could pop a ship in empire but it cost. The cost to the person who lost that ship could still be very high in terms of his overall wealth. The same is no longer true of the agressor who may lose a very small portion of his wealth, but he is on control, he decides on the risk/reward. Thats whats changed. Agressor risk is now almost nil. --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:43:00 - [243] - Quote Quote: Finally get my Mackinaw after all these months only to be shot at the first time I try to use it...great Pay attention to local? Don't fly what you can't afford to lose?
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:43:00 - [244] - Quote Originally by: Kahega Amielden 1) They're not killing all hisec miners, they're killing those mining in Barges. Bantams are not mining barges IIRC. Originally by: Kahega Amielden 2) Noobs are not in mining barges, and mining barges are competition. Ergo, killing them IS helping noobs Why would a experianced miner be in a Bantam? Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, have you ever actually pressed F1 with something other than an asteroid locked?
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:45:00 - [245] - Quote Methinks you're taking my post out of context/missing the point.
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:45:00 - [246] - Quote Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Finally get my Mackinaw after all these months only to be shot at the first time I try to use it...great Pay attention to local? Don't fly what you can't afford to lose? Right, lets buy a Mackinaw so it can sit in my Hangar gathering dust. If I can't make use of it in High-sec, then where eh? I am watching local btw ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:45:00 - [247] - Quote Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Reem Fairchild My god, you don't want to see what 300+ Goons running around in high-sec space, at the same time, could do. What? Lag out every system they jumped into? Well, I meant spread out, but yeah pretty much...
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:47:00 - [248] - Quote Quote: Right, lets buy a Mackinaw so it can sit in my Hangar gathering dust. If I can't make use of it in High-sec, then where eh? I am watching local btw Lowsec/0.0.. Or you can simply use it in hisec and pay attention? Or, you could just make do with cheaper T1 alternatives if you think you're going to get destroyed?
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:48:00 - [249] - Quote Originally by: Kahega Amielden Methinks you're taking my post out of context/missing the point. There is no misinterpretation or context you said they only target mining barges when in fact they have also targeted newbies in Bantams. Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, have you ever actually pressed F1 with something other than an asteroid locked?
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:48:00 - [250] - Quote Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Right, lets buy a Mackinaw so it can sit in my Hangar gathering dust. If I can't make use of it in High-sec, then where eh? I am watching local btw Lowsec/0.0.. Or you can simply use it in hisec and pay attention? Or, you could just make do with cheaper T1 alternatives if you think you're going to get destroyed? Mining a Procurer...right... Low-sec mining...get a grip 0.0, tried that and it failed, also Battleship rats hurt my Mackinaw. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh

Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:50:00 - [251] - Quote If the devs would just finally fix insurance payouts for ilegal actions (and smarten Concord a bit..), this wouldn't be a problem at all. Goons could still do it if they wanted, but it wouldn't be 'for free' anymore. Perfectly fine game mechanics. On a side note.. Why don't they concentrate on ice belts and mackinaws? Plenty of macro'ers there. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:51:00 - [252] - Quote Originally by: Thenoran Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Finally get my Mackinaw after all these months only to be shot at the first time I try to use it...great Pay attention to local? Don't fly what you can't afford to lose? Right, lets buy a Mackinaw so it can sit in my Hangar gathering dust. If I can't make use of it in High-sec, then where eh? I am watching local btw Make multiple bm's to random points all along the ice belt away from the normal clusters of barges. Every time you dock to get the hauler to grab your ice warp to a different bm when you come back. The suiciders should then go for the lazy ones then who don't move at all for hours provided they don't have a personal grudge against you. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:52:00 - [253] - Quote Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/02/2008 01:52:47 Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/02/2008 01:52:22 Quote: There is no misinterpretation or context you said they only target mining barges when in fact they have also targeted newbies in Bantams. The amount of non-exhumers they've killed is statistically insignificant. Quote: Mining a Procurer...right... Low-sec mining...get a grip Neutral 0.0, tried that and it failed, also Battleship rats hurt my Mackinaw. 1) Nothing stopping you from mining with T1. They use T1 equipment. 2) Lowsec mining? What's wrong with that? 3) Get some friends if the 0.0 rats are too tough for you 4) Or just watch local and warp out when you see a bunch of Goons warp in./ Y' know...common sense? Quote: Goons could still do it if they wanted, but it wouldn't be 'for free' anymore. Perfectly fine game mechanics. I agree that insurance for ships killed by CONCORD should be cut in half or something like that.
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:52:00 - [254] - Quote Originally by: Tarron Sarek If the devs would just finally fix insurance payouts for ilegal actions (and smarten Concord a bit..), this wouldn't be a problem at all. Goons could still do it if they wanted, but it wouldn't be 'for free' anymore. Perfectly fine game mechanics. On a side note.. Why don't they concentrate on ice belts and mackinaws? Plenty of macro'ers there. If getting killed by CONCORD would prevent the insurance from paying out it should balance out the risk vs reward a lot more indeed ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
MenanceWhite Amarr Fruit Fellatio	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:56:00 - [255] - Quote Originally by: SPIONKOP There was a fundemental aspect of the game known as risk/reward and this balance gave the game a sort of balance. So, let me guess: Exactly how long has all these Miners in Hulk been mining in highsec with almost no risk, 100% reward before the Goons started to suicidegank random people? Is it so hard "endure" untill they get tired of it? Besides, I've noticed that a good amount of their kills are'nt suicide ganks- they're canflips where it's the miners own fault for attacking back in the first place. The posts also seem like as if the Goons are exactly everywhere and that there's 100% chance you'll get killed as soon as you hit the undock button, which is'nt so. Is it so hard to move your barge/exhumer to another system somewhere further away? You'll make less money because you also need to transport stuff? Well make less money and play under a smaller risk of getting ganked or make more money while under more risk of getting ganked. That sound pretty risk vs reward to me. If you're still holding onto your risk vs reward argument: guess what- mining/missioning in lowsec has totally crappy risk vs reward ratio too compared to mining/missioning in empire. How about making empire totally "safe" while reducing the reward from missioning/mining to 1/5 of its orginal? How does that sound? --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:57:00 - [256] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan There is no misinterpretation or context you said they only target mining barges when in fact they have also targeted newbies in Bantams. They lied Or...maybe they had their fingers crossed when they said it. What's the big deal about a bantam anyway? If you trying to call out Goons on the internet honour thing, you have a long road ahead of you
IlIlIlI lIlIlIl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:59:00 - [257] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan There is no misinterpretation or context you said they only target mining barges when in fact they have also targeted newbies in Bantams. Your mistake is that you think of goons as an undifferentiated mass. We're all individuals and mostly do what we like. If one of our newbies wants to suicide gank another newbie, nobody's going to tell him not to. Right now there's a small group of goons that are getting a kick out of popping hulks and macks. That small group is the cause of the current bruhaha. The main body of goonfleet is still in delve (having gone through detorid, fethaybolis, omist, esote...basically just start at scalding pass and go clockwise). So some guy popped a Bantam. Aww, cute newbee, have some isk, go do it again. Originally by: Tarron Sarek Why don't they concentrate on ice belts and mackinaws? Plenty of macro'ers there. Ding! Winner! Most of my kills are in ice belts. Except there's a lot of macro'ers running ice harvesters on their hulks, and hulks cost more than macks.
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:04:00 - [258] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Originally by: AndrewRyan There is no misinterpretation or context you said they only target mining barges when in fact they have also targeted newbies in Bantams. Your mistake is that you think of goons as an undifferentiated mass. We're all individuals and mostly do what we like. If one of our newbies wants to suicide gank another newbie, nobody's going to tell him not to. Right now there's a small group of goons that are getting a kick out of popping hulks and macks. That small group is the cause of the current bruhaha. The main body of goonfleet is still in delve (having gone through detorid, fethaybolis, omist, esote...basically just start at scalding pass and go clockwise). So some guy popped a Bantam. Aww, cute newbee, have some isk, go do it again. The thing is when goons are posting and claiming "we only target Barges" and the truth is your targeting everything it begs the question what else have you said about this campaign is not accurate? Then again it doesn't really make much difference really but when the goons come to the forums and state the exact opposite to the truth it does look strange. Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, have you ever actually pressed F1 with something other than an asteroid locked?
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:06:00 - [259] - Quote Edited by: Sekhmet Orion on 28/02/2008 02:06:10 Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Ding! Winner! Most of my kills are in ice belts. Except there's a lot of macro'ers running ice harvesters on their hulks, and hulks cost more than macks. And quite often have nice faction shield boosters Perma run cap thing + afk macro business, makes nice loot drop
MenanceWhite Amarr Fruit Fellatio	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:09:00 - [260] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan poast They have a campain? I thought that it mostly only was some crap they made up/roleplay stuff when some guy decided to ask what's going on after the massive forum whines. More like just some random guy going "DELVE LAGGGGGFIGHTS IS BORING LET'S GOTO EMP AND GANK SOME MINERS" --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur

Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:20:00 - [261] - Quote I'm not sure what the big deal is, this is buisness as usual for the swarm its not like their the first or only ones that gank barges in high sec Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:26:00 - [262] - Quote Originally by: AndrewRyan Originally by: Kahega Amielden Methinks you're taking my post out of context/missing the point. There is no misinterpretation or context you said they only target mining barges when in fact they have also targeted a newb in a Bantam. fixed it for you
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:26:00 - [263] - Quote Originally by: Haakelen itt empire miners learn to fly what you can afford to replace itt empire miners find that indeed yes, there are consequences for pressing the undock button Whats not in this thread though is any clue about tanking your hulk. That killmail that was linked earlier was comic to say the least. EM hardner and a crap t1 booster. lmao. And you don't need a gistii setup to have an uber tank. Drop those t2 strips for t1 and you can fit a gistii-ish t2 tank with shield rigs that should shrug off most normal gankers. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Jason Travers Space 1999	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:35:00 - [264] - Quote This is the post in the CCP news. goonswarm campaign reaffirms the dangers of empire space reported by ISD Argooros Ployon \| 2008.02.27 06:31:10 \| NEW Reports are coming in from asteroid fields all across Empire-controlled space that GoonSwarm Alliance is conducting a new campaign against Hulks. GoonSwarm's kill board for this campaign, (titled "Jihadswarm" in their signature style) indicates that some 66 Hulks have been killed along with a few industrial ships so far. Another 100 or so Hulks and Mackinaws have been reported as killed on their main board. I sat down with GoonSwarm diplomat Vile Rat and Karttoon, the leader of the Jihadswarm faction, to talk to them about this. Karttoon unabashedly confirmed that "yes, we are engaging against any regular miner in Empire controlled space." He claimed that in the first five days of the campaign GoonSwarm had destroyed over 34 billion ISK of assets, and that in all some 250 ships have been destroyed thus far. Vile Rat emphasized that this was not a campaign against new pod pilots, but against those who by now should be making it in lawless space with all of its dangers. When asked whether or not GoonSwarm was doing this for personal gain in the Hulk market both denied this was the case. "For far too long," Vile Rat said, "the weak have lived under the protection of Concord's protective umbrella and have gotten rich off the backs of the working class." When asked if GoonSwarm would be ransoming Hulks during this campaign Karttoon said, "We shall allow penance for the wealth hoarders to remain on our holy land." His comments seemed to suggest that GoonSwarm is claiming all of Empire controlled space as their own, if not materially then in some spiritual manner. Calimor, a New Eden researcher, points out that GoonSwarm's campaign is affecting the black market where ISK is exchanged for black market currencies. "Although many innocents are being attacked, miners who work for outlaw corporations are feeling a huge hit." Prices on the black market have gone up 50% since GoonSwarm's campaign began. The Ex-Band of Brothers spymaster Digital Communist, himself no stranger to the dark underbelly of New Eden, had his own theory as to what was driving the GoonSwarm campaign. He also referred to recent actions taken by Triumvirate. who have similarly been making life much harder for Empire-dwellers. Whatever the underlying reasons may be, it is becoming increasingly clear that CONCORD's influence over the actions of capsuleers within supposedly "lawful" space is once again being challenged. The common perception that CONCORD-enforced space is safer for capsuleers than the frontier regions has long been considered something of a myth. "There's a cyclical nature to CONCORD's power over the capsuleer class," remarked Amir Kevash, an Associate Professor of the new "Capsuleer Studies" department at Caille State University. "[Pod pilots] will find a loophole, exploit it for personal gain or indeed, simple amusement. CONCORD will move to plug the gap as always. A few months later, as tactics and technologies evolve, a new workaround will be found and once again CONCORD will be on the back foot. From the Goons and the recent Black Ops jumpdrive fiasco to as far back as the now-infamous smartbombing of Yulai and earlier, there has always been a certain to-and-fro between the two groups." Kevash remarked that with the recent problems CONCORD was already facing, they were likely already stretched too thin to deal with smaller issues in a timely fashion, leaving empire-bound capsuleers to fend for themselves for the time being, perhaps indefinitely. (Rest on next post)
Jason Travers Space 1999	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:36:00 - [265] - Quote "It's getting to the point where it's becoming flagrant. Podders are once again flaunting their disregard for the rule of law. Their methods are becoming as widely-spread in terms of knowledge as they are in terms of a shrugging acceptance amongst the populace. Take that egger vonHolst's recent holovid for example. Not only does it bring the issue to a huge audience, not only does it display the methodology, but it does so with an unmistakable sense of pride. It's yet another bump on CONCORD's increasingly rocky road." Almost as if to confirm Kevash's statements, Vile Rat ended his comments by addressing empire-dwellers with the remarks: "You are on notice; we are coming for you." One thing is for sure--miners in Empire controlled space have a new danger to watch out for. This is for those that havent read the news. Yes the Allyance does know about it.
IlIlIlI lIlIlIl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:38:00 - [266] - Quote Originally by: Zeba Drop those t2 strips for t1 and you can fit a gistii-ish t2 tank with shield rigs that should shrug off most normal gankers. But really you should invest in the gistiis anyway, just in case.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:40:00 - [267] - Quote Guys, I don't know what everyone is getting all upset about. The rogue elements in goonswarm who are mercilessly killing innocent hulk pilots have recieved a stern talking to, and have been put in the corner. Goonies are a peace loving people. We simply want all war to end, in both 0.0, and in Empire. Anyone who feels offended should continue to express their concerns, or convo me in game. We can talk about this over tea, and come to a mutual agreement. Any Hulk is free to mine in our lush belts in Scalding Pass. You can inquire within about our belt-sharing program. With this program fully in place, we will usher in a new era of peace, a Golden age of Eve, where Goon and non-Goon live in harmony, and war is a thing of the past. Arkonor and Mercoxit will flow from belts like mana fell from the sky. And you will know happiness. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:41:00 - [268] - Quote Originally by: IlIlIlI lIlIlIl Originally by: Zeba Drop those t2 strips for t1 and you can fit a gistii-ish t2 tank with shield rigs that should shrug off most normal gankers. But really you should invest in the gistiis anyway, just in case. yeah but these players should be mining in high sec anyways, who would mine in 1.0 space with a fully fitted badass ship that should be in 0.0 space. I mean really most of goon space is open for mining am I wrong?
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:42:00 - [269] - Quote Originally by: An Anarchyyt Guys, I don't know what everyone is getting all upset about. The rogue elements in goonswarm who are mercilessly killing innocent hulk pilots have recieved a stern talking to, and have been put in the corner. Goonies are a peace loving people. We simply want all war to end, in both 0.0, and in Empire. Anyone who feels offended should continue to express their concerns, or convo me in game. We can talk about this over tea, and come to a mutual agreement. Any Hulk is free to mine in our lush belts in Scalding Pass. You can inquire within about our belt-sharing program. With this program fully in place, we will usher in a new era of peace, a Golden age of Eve, where Goon and non-Goon live in harmony, and war is a thing of the past. Arkonor and Mercoxit will flow from belts like mana fell from the sky. And you will know happiness. You forgot to tell them they need a full Gistii A tank so they can mine AFK while tanking the belt rats.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:44:00 - [270] - Quote Originally by: An Anarchyyt Guys, I don't know what everyone is getting all upset about. The rogue elements in goonswarm who are mercilessly killing innocent hulk pilots have recieved a stern talking to, and have been put in the corner. Goonies are a peace loving people. We simply want all war to end, in both 0.0, and in Empire. Anyone who feels offended should continue to express their concerns, or convo me in game. We can talk about this over tea, and come to a mutual agreement. Any Hulk is free to mine in our lush belts in Scalding Pass. You can inquire within about our belt-sharing program. With this program fully in place, we will usher in a new era of peace, a Golden age of Eve, where Goon and non-Goon live in harmony, and war is a thing of the past. Arkonor and Mercoxit will flow from belts like mana fell from the sky. And you will know happiness. so basiclly you want miners in 0.0 sopace selling to you to fuel your war machine while providing protection to them and not to those in high sec? mob at it's best! everyone wins :)

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