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Ragnar Darkstar
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:22:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I'm offended by people reminding me of the fact that Afghanistan is occupied by evil American imperialists that murdered tens of thousands of people.
Lol. We were just ratting in lowsec.
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Eva Marie
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:24:00 -
[32]
Quote:
I think it was promoting religous justice. Ohh wait, thats same with jihad. Hmm, you got to love when one side thinks they are better than the other because 'god' is on their side.
Like someone else had said before, your 5th grade teacher should have tough you better
Crusades had nothing to do with religion freedom. It was a war for the sacred land, the same land Israel and Palestinians keep dying for. Jihad goes beyond that onto the extend of exterminating any other creed or believe that does not adhere to their own. Get educated please, it hurts your brain not to give it some work.
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Steakkbone
Helios Incorporated Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:24:00 -
[33]
Why has no one compared ANYTHING to the N azi's yet? This is getting ridiculous.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Eva Marie
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I'm offended by people reminding me of the fact that Afghanistan is occupied by evil American imperialists that murdered tens of thousands of people.
Depending on the country you are from, your government probably sent troops to support the US effort to get rid of Radicals in Afghanistan. There were more than 50 countries involved in what is the biggest international task-force to date. Afghanistan is not Irak, Jihad have nothing to do with Irak, let's not confuse that. And this thread is surely not to discuss politics but respect within the game to people who are offended by the term.
Yep and over 70% of the people in my country are AGAINST the occupation and oppression of Afghanistan by our troops, at least 50% think the US invaded Afghanistan on false pretexts. Also, the majority here thinks 9/11 is an INSIDE JOB, and while I don't know exactly what to think of it, I'm sure that the Taliban we're currently commiting genocide on had nothing to do with it.
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Steakkbone
Helios Incorporated Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Also, the majority here thinks 9/11 is an INSIDE JOB
What? If you are referring to the US we are not that ********.
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syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:27:00 -
[36]
Edited by: syphurous on 29/02/2008 01:28:20
Originally by: Steakkbone Why has no one compared ANYTHING to the N azi's yet? This is getting ridiculous.
How this ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Damn forum messing with my link :(
Originally by: GM Faolchu People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
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Cpt Hound
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:29:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Cpt Hound on 29/02/2008 01:33:55 Edited by: Cpt Hound on 29/02/2008 01:33:12 Edited by: Cpt Hound on 29/02/2008 01:31:31 Edited by: Cpt Hound on 29/02/2008 01:29:47
Originally by: Eva Marie
Quote:
I think it was promoting religous justice. Ohh wait, thats same with jihad. Hmm, you got to love when one side thinks they are better than the other because 'god' is on their side.
Like someone else had said before, your 5th grade teacher should have tough you better
Crusades had nothing to do with religion freedom. It was a war for the sacred land, the same land Israel and Palestinians keep dying for. Jihad goes beyond that onto the extend of exterminating any other creed or believe that does not adhere to their own. Get educated please, it hurts your brain not to give it some work.
Jihad - Which means "to strive" or "to struggle".
Jihad by the sword - (jihad bis saif) refers to qital fi sabilillah (armed fighting in the way of God, or holy war).
Within Islamic jurisprudence Jihad is the only form of warfare permissible under Islamic law, and may be declared against apostates, rebels, highway robbers, violent groups, non-Islamic leaders or non-Muslim combatants, but there are other ways to perform jihad as well including civil disobedience. The primary aim of jihad is not the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam by force, but rather the expansion and defense of the Islamic state. So, those Jihads are called to free their land of infidels or expand their land. The Crusades were issued to free the holy land and of course expand the christian empires. I fail to see the difference.
"Jihad goes beyond that onto the extend of exterminating any other creed or believe that does not adhere to their own". Since we on the topic of pointing the finger and calling people stupid. That is not the aim of a jihad. Ohh, you should get some education for yourself
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JeanLuc Rome
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:29:00 -
[38]
Edited by: JeanLuc Rome on 29/02/2008 01:29:34
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Now, see what you get by dragging real-life issues into a GAME? Jihad is just a word, nothing more. You choose how to interpret it and what associations you want to have with it.
Tell that to the Goons, obviously they are the ones to blame. Otherwise this thread would not exist in the first place. ---------------
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Forced Entry
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:31:00 -
[39]
First off: posting on an alt because my main is inactive.
Secondly: it's posts like this that truly show the level of undereducated and misinformed people in America. Not only does the op misspell Iraq, but is calling for the blocking of a word... in a country where free speech is treasured... and soldiers are called to defend and often die to protect our basic inalienable rights.
Now before I go into a rant about several conspiracies and government issues, I'll stop at saying- if you have an issue with something, don't involve yourself with it. Especially a word, but nonetheless- GET OVER IT. A word is a word. Wars have been fought over the exchange of a few words... EVERYONE needs to seriously chill out and not get so emotional about the air leaving one's lungs.
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Pratiken
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:33:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Pratiken on 29/02/2008 01:33:31
Originally by: Steakkbone Why has no one compared ANYTHING to the N azi's yet? This is getting ridiculous.
US invading Afghanistan and Iraq is just like ****** invading Poland! US is ****!
Done.
Edit: Of course, the truth has to be censored...Take a guess
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JeanLuc Rome
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Pratiken
Originally by: Steakkbone Why has no one compared ANYTHING to the N azi's yet? This is getting ridiculous.
US invading Afghanistan and Iraq is just like ****** invading Poland! US is ****!
Done.
Son, Iraq and Afghanistan are two separate affairs, like water-based condoms and Latex-based ones ---------------
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Eva Marie Sorry to inform you but our troops weren't defending our freedom of speech in Afghanistan, they were directly and under UN approval responding to the "Jihad" acts that caused 911.
Our troops job is to defend America, and uphold the Constitution. Part of the constitution is our freedom of speech. Defending America also meant going to Afghanistan to respond to the terrorist acts that caused 9/11 (or not, depending on what the tinfoil brigade has to say at the time). Whichever way you put it, you are lessening the significance of our troops' job by attempting to silence this.
Quote: These kids obviously don't know that this term brings recent not only from Americans, but also from fellow Russian, British, Greek and citizens from Spain who have died in terrorists attacks in the name of a nut-case "Jihad". It's offensive, it's barbaric, it is synonym of low religious principles and hatred. Why should we deal with it in Eve too?
Quite the opposite, "These Kids" obviously know what this term brings, and use it in a satirical manner to make light of the situation. The fact that you are so offended by it simply adds more fuel to the fire, and with good reason. Humor is the only real counter to hatred. I would say "Love" is, but in reality love and hate are two sides of the same coin, and generally one leads to the other.
By making light of the situation, the power of the word is also lessened. How can you take "Jihad" seriously, when people are having lulz about it in an internet spaceship game? Conversely, by treating the word with respect and seriousness, you empower the users of the language and add weight to their cause. (and by that I mean both those that use it to sow fear, and those that use it to empower themselves by cashing in on that fear) -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :( |
Eva Marie
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:41:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Forced Entry the op misspell Iraq, but is calling for the blocking of a word
I would suggest you read my post one more time.
1) Irak is spelled correctly in Spanish (my native language)... sorry for being bilingual
2) I never called for censorship on any word. I called for petitioning to CCP and let them know that word is consider an offensive term to many people, not only Americans. Also it has been (not by definition) being used wrongfully by people with no ethics or morals. Is is wrong to ask for that?
I never asked for censorship, you guys assumed that. I don't know what CCP could consider doing with the term, that's their call.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: JeanLuc Rome
Originally by: Pratiken
Originally by: Steakkbone Why has no one compared ANYTHING to the N azi's yet? This is getting ridiculous.
US invading Afghanistan and Iraq is just like ****** invading Poland! US is ****!
Done.
Son, Iraq and Afghanistan are two separate affairs, like water-based condoms and Latex-based ones
Your sig, too big be it.
I Am, The Anti-JoJo. |
Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:46:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Willow Whisp on 29/02/2008 01:46:35
Originally by: Eva Marie
2) I never called for censorship on any word.
Quote:
Stop the use of such term in a game where we should be able to scape at least the harsh reality that the world outside gives us every day. Get in contact with the media, let them know how Eve is being perverted by a irresponsible and disrespectful few. Don't let some stupid kids ruin our online game!
No?
Calling for a stop and threatening with negative media attention is not "Calling for censorship?" -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :( |
Durao
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:48:00 -
[46]
You have no right to not be offended. |
JeanLuc Rome
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:50:00 -
[47]
Edited by: JeanLuc Rome on 29/02/2008 01:51:33
Originally by: Willow Whisp Defending America also meant going to Afghanistan to respond to the terrorist acts that caused 9/11 (or not, depending on what the tinfoil brigade has to say at the time).
Lol, isn't that what it was being said before? Seems you just agreed with it :)
Quote: Whichever way you put it, you are lessening the significance of our troops' job by attempting to silence this.
I don't think the girl was attempting to silence anything. I think she wanted to let people know words should not take lightly. Honor and Respect is based on the principles that words are as valuable as gold. At least in the real world it is, now if you just base your opinion about words not meaning anything besides what you decide them to mean, then how can you know when to run if someone shouts "Fire", maybe Fire means water for you ... which in that case you won't care by that time cause you'll be either crushed to death or burned to death.
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Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:53:00 -
[48]
Dear OP
Shut up.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Khatred
ReallyPissedOff Guinea Pigs
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:55:00 -
[49]
I am offended by so many things, it's hillarious. But the again, I get easily offended.
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Gealbhan
Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:55:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Gealbhan on 29/02/2008 01:55:44 I kind of take the late Dr. King's advice and just take people one at a time regardless of race, religion or political leanings. I'm not deluded into the fact that no one will touch me because of this stance. There are people out there that would kill me simply because I'm white but you know what, I feel sorrow for those people that they will never be free of those feelings and actually embrace their fellow human beings in peace and friendship.
Words, phrases, "ism's" et all have no real meaning to me.
P.S. The word Jihad is just that, a word.
Edited for P.S.
"Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium. |
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:57:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Eva Marie Edited by: Eva Marie on 29/02/2008 00:50:07 I'll try to make this simple and quick.
My best friend was wounded in the war at Afghanistan. When I see all this GoonFleet "Jihad" bull****, it really is offensive because the only people who use those words are religious radicals that have taken the beautiful and peaceful principles of Islam and perverted it. Now thousands of families come to recognize that word with bloodshed and hurt because their sons have been taken away in the name of such barbaric acts.
Hereby, I am petitioning to all those Eve Pilots who find this "Jihad" nonsense offensive to get in contact with CCP. Let them know that term which means "Holy War" is bottom-line offensive to the memory of our brothers and sisters killed by mentally sick people who use a religion as an excuse. Stop the use of such term in a game where we should be able to scape at least the harsh reality that the world outside gives us every day. Get in contact with the media, let them know how Eve is being perverted by a irresponsible and disrespectful few. Don't let some stupid kids ruin our online game!
While I sympathize with the troops in Afghanistan, especially since I'll be there myself in 2010 from the look of things, the term Jihad is not inherently offensive to me. The term has indeed been perverted from its original meaning, as you said, although technically Jihad didn't originally mean holy war, it meant a religious struggle to improve oneself and ones' cohorts in the eyes of God. This struggle need not be one of violence. It could be instituted in a military sense only if the enemy sought to strip Muslims of their right to worship in the Islamic way. Jihad is not a homologous act with the Crusade. Of course like with any religious doctrine there are people who don't "get it".
Contacting the media about how someone said Jihad in Eve is definitely taking things a step too far. We do still have freedom of speech here. If people don't like the term Jihad used in this game they can either: 1. never use it themselves 2. politely bring up their specific objections about it with the person they hear say it
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:58:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Lol, isn't that what it was being said before? Seems you just agreed with it :)
I agreed that our boys are there for a reason, that is part of their job. If you look at the first sentence, I also include "Defending the Constitution and freedom of speech" as part of that clause.
Quote: I don't think the girl was attempting to silence anything. I think she wanted to let people know words should not take lightly. Honor and Respect is based on the principles that words are as valuable as gold.
She directly threatened CCP with negative media attention of they didn't do anything about the "Problem", how is that not "Attempting to silence anything"?
Quote: At least in the real world it is, now if you just base your opinion about words not meaning anything besides what you decide them to mean, then how can you know when to run if someone shouts "Fire", maybe Fire means water for you ... which in that case you won't care by that time cause you'll be either crushed to death or burned to death.
There is a difference between freedom of speech, and using words to directly cause harm in a situation. The latter (yelling "fire" in a crowded place) is an example of a form of speech deliberately intended to cause harm in a public setting. I /could/ be interpreted as "Humor" - but even then, it is humor that causes direct physical harm to others in the vicinity. The key here being direct physical harm. -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :( |
JeanLuc Rome
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gealbhan The word Jihad is just that, a word.
The word Fire or Bomb in a theater or airplane would also be just words? Obviously we are not living in a world were we can just ignore words and brush them off if they have no real meanings. After all, words is how we have created civilizations... do they really have no meaning? I think this philosophical turned this thread has gotten into is kind of sad. People saying words don't mean anything, yet we are told that when the girl says "NO" is no... otherwise we would have committed rape.
Lol Ironic isn't it? ---------------
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sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:00:00 -
[54]
OP, you obviously have no idea who uses the word and what it means, so this thread is actually quite insulting.
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GO MaZ
Spartan Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:01:00 -
[55]
BALALALALALAALALALALAALALALAALA
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:02:00 -
[56]
Originally by: JeanLuc Rome
Originally by: Gealbhan The word Jihad is just that, a word.
The word Fire or Bomb in a theater or airplane would also be just words? Obviously we are not living in a world were we can just ignore words and brush them off if they have no real meanings. After all, words is how we have created civilizations... do they really have no meaning? I think this philosophical turned this thread has gotten into is kind of sad. People saying words don't mean anything, yet we are told that when the girl says "NO" is no... otherwise we would have committed rape.
Lol Ironic isn't it?
You are taking things too far and out of context and you know it. Goons having lulz in local about Jihad is not the same as yelling "Fire" or "Bomb" in a theater or airplane and you know it. -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :( |
Faye Valentine
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Eva Marie Edited by: Eva Marie on 29/02/2008 00:50:07 I'll try to make this simple and quick.
My best friend was wounded in the war at Afghanistan. When I see all this GoonFleet "Jihad" bull****, it really is offensive because the only people who use those words are religious radicals that have taken the beautiful and peaceful principles of Islam and perverted it. Now thousands of families come to recognize that word with bloodshed and hurt because their sons have been taken away in the name of such barbaric acts.
Hereby, I am petitioning to all those Eve Pilots who find this "Jihad" nonsense offensive to get in contact with CCP. Let them know that term which means "Holy War" is bottom-line offensive to the memory of our brothers and sisters killed by mentally sick people who use a religion as an excuse. Stop the use of such term in a game where we should be able to scape at least the harsh reality that the world outside gives us every day. Get in contact with the media, let them know how Eve is being perverted by a irresponsible and disrespectful few. Don't let some stupid kids ruin our online game!
El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz. Tienes tu el derecho de quejarte, al igual que ellos tienen el derecho a decir lo que se les de la gana.
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JeanLuc Rome
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:05:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Willow Whisp I agreed that our boys are there for a reason, that is part of their job. If you look at the first sentence, I also include "Defending the Constitution and freedom of speech" as part of that clause.
I think you are in the wrong forum, why don't you try LaborTalk. There you can try to find out what Freedom of speech really means. There also you will find out that such freedom is not to be taken lightly or irresponsibly, there are laws that regulate it after all, such as with offensive words and ranting.
Second, like I said before... and I'll have to say it one more time. The "one reason" why our troops when to Afghanistan wasn't to protect "freedom of speech" it was for Natinal Defense. I don't think anyone in Afghanistan was threatening our freedom of speech, but surely our defense, yes. LOL! ---------------
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Halcana
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:14:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 29/02/2008 01:26:05
Originally by: Eva Marie
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I'm offended by people reminding me of the fact that Afghanistan is occupied by evil American imperialists that murdered tens of thousands of people.
Depending on the country you are from, your government probably sent troops to support the US effort to get rid of Radicals in Afghanistan. There were more than 50 countries involved in what is the biggest international task-force to date. Afghanistan is not Irak, Jihad have nothing to do with Irak, let's not confuse that. And this thread is surely not to discuss politics but respect within the game to people who are offended by the term.
Yep and over 70% of the people in my country are AGAINST the occupation and oppression of Afghanistan by our troops, at least 50% think the US invaded Afghanistan on false pretexts. Also, the majority here thinks 9/11 is an INSIDE JOB, and while I don't know exactly what to think of it, I'm sure that the Taliban we're currently commiting genocide on had nothing to do with it.
The Taliban aren't an ethnic group, they're a political/paramilitary entity. It's not genocide until NATO widens its offensive to include any Pashtun. However,
Quote: Now, see what you get by dragging real-life issues into a GAME? Jihad is just a word, nothing more. You choose how to interpret it and what associations you want to have with it.
This. Personally I'm not remotely offended by the terminology of the Goons' "Jihad". The idea of them romping through digital space suiciding miners under that banner seems to me to be exactly the kind of belittling parody that the concept of religious holy war deserves.
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: JeanLuc Rome
I think you are in the wrong forum, why don't you try LaborTalk. There you can try to find out what Freedom of speech really means. There also you will find out that such freedom is not to be taken lightly or irresponsibly, there are laws that regulate it after all, such as with offensive words and ranting.
Come now, you and I both know full well what that freedom of speech means, and that it applies in this case, and just how much you are reaching to equal this situations with the situations in which that freedom of speech doesn't reach.
Quote: Second, like I said before... and I'll have to say it one more time. The "one reason" why our troops when to Afghanistan wasn't to protect "freedom of speech" it was for Natinal Defense. I don't think anyone in Afghanistan was threatening our freedom of speech, but surely our defense, yes. LOL!
If you think that the current situation doesn't affect our freedom to speak freely, you are duly mis-informed. However, that is not a discussion for this forum. My original freedom of speech argument was way before your post. Don't flatter yourself into thinking it was in response to your argument over "Fire"
Quote: I would suggest you drop the freedom of speech crap, no one here was talking about that. Obviously you read my "Fire" comment regarding true meaning of words... and perverted it with the liberal freedom of speech one-man argument you have in your head. You got it all mix up.
Ah, and now we are namecalling. Nice. And of course, I must be a liberal. Never mind that I live in Germany, in a Military Post, and have had friends of mine die in the war. Never mind that I support what our troops are currently doing both in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Yup. I know nothing of what i'm talking about and must be a soft Liberal for calling the Op out on her attempt to blackmail CCP into censoring the "Jihad" talk. -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :( |
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