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Nano-HACs are not overpowered, the Hyena is not underpowered.

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Delnas White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:27:00 - [31] Originally by: AndrewRyan The problem I have with nano hacs is the fact that AFs are so slow and ungainly, if the cruiser version is billy whizz on *** why is the supposedly smaller faster ship like desperate dan on mogadon? That is a problem with Assault Frigates, not Heavy Assault Cruisers. They probably should get a few buffs. Slightly increased tank along with slightly increased agility and speed would be great. Maybe make them specilised anti-Nano-HACs. ^_^ They wouldn't need to go as fast as Intercepters to do that, and wouldn't remove the flavor Nano-HACs have. ** White-Noise Nuff said.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:03:00 - [32] Speed is out of line, especially on cruiser sized ships. Id like a game where fleets are built up like real fleets. Where frigs tackle, cruisers support and battleship bring the main damage. They all have a role and a mixed fleet should be the most superior one. Now every stupid fleet is a nano fleet. Easy to FC. Easy not to get everyone killed. And people think its "outside the box thinking", wich its not. Its easy mode eve. I hope ccp nerfs the crap out of speed tbh. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Bruce Deorum Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:40:00 - [33] Anyone that has actually flown a vagabond in nanosetup, wastes all of his 5 low slots, and his rigs, to achieve the benefits he achieves. Even after that, all he can do is Run, yes it can run away... It can choose whether he engages or not. That is its only power. Because apart from that, it cant do anything, his real DPS (not EFT) are silly, and it cannot bring down anyone with decent tank. Yes i like my vagabond very much and i wouldnt change it for another HAC. But its not overpowered. Ishtar is IMO. Vaga has no tank (just buffer) no DPS. Nano ships have suffered great nerfs in the past. These where supposed to correct the imbalance. If we continue like that, all we will be flying is Big bulky BSes Facing one another, and pressing f1-f8 wait for some seconds to see to result. Thats the point in this game. Diversity.
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.02 14:23:00 - [34] to be honest we haven't fought a nano gang of comparable size yet, although this is only because we haven't found one. when I do I thoroughly expect us all to die pretty much we've been engaging smaller gangs who have no idea of our presence or gang composition, whereas we know exactly what they have (barring reinforcements in another system that we're too lazy to scout). from the small experience I have fighting large nanogangs they are very difficult to counter once you get into the 5+ region, especially if they have a balanced gang with falcon/rook support, huginns/rapiers, and logistics. Would this also be true of a conventional gang with the same composition? true, but not so much. even if you overwhelm a nanogang you'll generally kill 2 or 3 at most, even with bubbles and dictors and every other 0.0 advantage. you have the odd situation where nanos only become extremely difficult to counter in numbers. one or two are fine. the largest nanogang we took on was i think 6 cruisers/assault frigs vs ishtar curse vexor, curse died vexor escaped ishtar we couldn't engage first under sentries and it declined to engage. did warp us in in 2 cruisers and a hyena against ishtar curse in a non-deadspace mission, but they warped out concerned about npc damage or reinforcements. _ White-Noise is Recruiting. Active pvp corp, carebears with teeth welcome. Bring Pie.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.02 15:29:00 - [35] Originally by: Bruce Deorum Anyone that has actually flown a vagabond in nanosetup, wastes all of his 5 low slots, and his rigs, to achieve the benefits he achieves. Even after that, all he can do is Run, yes it can run away... It can choose whether he engages or not. That is its only power. Because apart from that, it cant do anything, his real DPS (not EFT) are silly, and it cannot bring down anyone with decent tank. Yes i like my vagabond very much and i wouldnt change it for another HAC. But its not overpowered. Ishtar is IMO. Vaga has no tank (just buffer) no DPS. Nano ships have suffered great nerfs in the past. These where supposed to correct the imbalance. If we continue like that, all we will be flying is Big bulky BSes Facing one another, and pressing f1-f8 wait for some seconds to see to result. Thats the point in this game. Diversity. /facepalm Are you deliberatly rambling on something that has nothing to do with the real issue to derail the issue or dont you understand what the issue is? The issue is NOT single nanos. The issue is a group of nanos. You can lie all you want, there is an issue and its eve online easy mode. It needs to stop. We need NORMAL fleets back. With frigs/cruisers/battleships. No its not diversity. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.03.02 15:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Bruce Deorum Anyone that has actually flown a vagabond in nanosetup, wastes all of his 5 low slots, and his rigs, to achieve the benefits he achieves. Even after that, all he can do is Run, yes it can run away... It can choose whether he engages or not. That is its only power. Because apart from that, it cant do anything, his real DPS (not EFT) are silly, and it cannot bring down anyone with decent tank. Yes i like my vagabond very much and i wouldnt change it for another HAC. But its not overpowered. Ishtar is IMO. Vaga has no tank (just buffer) no DPS. Nano ships have suffered great nerfs in the past. These where supposed to correct the imbalance. If we continue like that, all we will be flying is Big bulky BSes Facing one another, and pressing f1-f8 wait for some seconds to see to result. Thats the point in this game. Diversity. /facepalm Are you deliberatly rambling on something that has nothing to do with the real issue to derail the issue or dont you understand what the issue is? The issue is NOT single nanos. The issue is a group of nanos. You can lie all you want, there is an issue and its eve online easy mode. It needs to stop. We need NORMAL fleets back. With frigs/cruisers/battleships. No its not diversity. I agree. Let's kill solo completely and make all fights no more complicated than F1, F2, F3... Most people in EVE are too dim to figure out the easy and obvious counters to nano-ships. It's time to dumb down the game so there is absolutely nothing that can surprise the average EVE player.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.02 15:45:00 - [37] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 02/03/2008 15:45:26 Originally by: Ariel Dawn I agree. Let's kill solo completely and make all fights no more complicated than F1, F2, F3... Most people in EVE are too dim to figure out the easy and obvious counters to nano-ships. It's time to dumb down the game so there is absolutely nothing that can surprise the average EVE player. Haha solo? It doesnt exists. While shooting all my movies ive had solo people run from me all the time. Vagas running from my sac, huginns running from my nano sac eventhough they can disengage whenever they want. Ive had 2 inties run from my SOLO inty. Ive had commandships running from my BC. Solo pvp is already dead. There are other factors then speed that kill solo pvp. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:29:00 - [38] At the op, you didn't prove anything by being able to kill nanoships well with a hyena in the gang, other than the hyena is good in good hands, but i could use the same anology against the old 8 hs geddon, bring a falcon with 7 amarr racials also to another poster, killing nano ships will kill solo pvp? solo pvp is viable with most ships, requires patience and/or suicidal means the main thing that is unbalanced about nano hacs is their survialbility, although it's quite easy to web vagabonds in a non nano ship __________________________________ Garmonation - Rupture fun video
Delnas White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.02 19:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Garmon At the op, you didn't prove anything by being able to kill nanoships well with a hyena in the gang, other than the hyena is good in good hands, but i could use the same anology against the old 8 hs geddon, bring a falcon with 7 amarr racials Thats true. I didn't prove anything. The term overpowered is completely speculative. All I am doing is giving an example that, to me, shows they are not overpowered. It is not conclusive, it is not fact. It is simply my perspective from someone who has the ability to fly nanos yet prefers tanked ships. The old 8hs Geddon was overpowered. It could take on two Battleships and win. I believe one of my old corp mates from way back when managed to nuke four one time with that type of setup. That, however, does not compare with the current situation. The biggest difference is that a solo nano-HAC does not have the DPS to kill a solo HAC with a semidecent tank. Add a Hyena, Rapier, or Intercepter to the mix and the nano-HAC will die if he does not quickly flee. To me, while winning 4v1 is overpowered, losing 2v1 is not. (Btw, we didn't have Recons back then.) Any ship, nano or not, can choose whome he fights 95% of the time. Obviously, the scanner and local are overpowered and must be nerfed. **** White-Noise - Now recruiting! Nuff said.
Delnas White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.02 19:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Delnas on 02/03/2008 19:12:00 Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Edited by: Savesti Kyrsst on 02/03/2008 14:35:51 to be honest we haven't fought a nano gang of comparable size yet, although this is only because we haven't found one. when I do I thoroughly expect us all to die pretty much we've been engaging smaller gangs who have no idea of our presence or gang composition, whereas we know exactly what they have (barring reinforcements in another system that we're too lazy to scout). from the small experience I have fighting large nanogangs they are very difficult to counter once you get into the 5+ region, especially if they have a balanced gang with falcon/rook support, huginns/rapiers, and logistics. Would this also be true of a conventional gang with the same support? true, but not so much. even if you overwhelm a nanogang you'll generally kill 2 or 3 at most, even with bubbles and dictors and every other 0.0 advantage. you have the odd situation where nanos only become extremely difficult to counter in numbers. one or two are fine. the largest nanogang we took on was i think 6 cruisers/assault frigs vs ishtar curse vexor, curse died vexor escaped ishtar we couldn't engage first under sentries and it declined to engage. did warp us in in 2 cruisers and a hyena against ishtar curse in a non-deadspace mission, but they warped out concerned about npc damage or reinforcements. Thats true. If we fight a comparative sized gang of nano-HACs. The reason is not that nano-HACs are overpowered, the reason is that we all fly T1 Cruisers aside from Tellenta's Deimos and your Hyena. Tellenta flys with no tank so the HACs low damage will be able to pop him as his blasters fail at range. Your Hyena stands up to one nano-HAC, not a half dozen. Still, I don't believe that makes them overpowered as it is HACs vs T1 Cruisers for the most part. Tbh, outside of low-sec, the Nano-Ishtar probably is slightly overpowered. The Minmatar HACs/Recons (less so the Huginn), and the Curse need their speed not to be underpowered however. I don't know what kind of nerf the Devs are planning, but I would hate to think of what EVE would be like without these ships. **** White-Noise - Now recruiting! Nuff said.

Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:41:00 - [41] Perhaps it is time for webbing bubbles. Might make the interdictors useful once again.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:47:00 - [42] Originally by: Lrrp Perhaps it is time for webbing bubbles. Might make the interdictors useful once again. this, web/disruptor bubble would fix a lot of problems.
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:07:00 - [43] Edited by: Dianeces on 02/03/2008 23:08:01 Originally by: Everyone Dies Originally by: Lrrp Perhaps it is time for webbing bubbles. Might make the interdictors useful once again. this, web/disruptor bubble would fix a lot of problems. No it wouldn't. (Here's a hint: what's the difference between a slow ship and a regular Vaga in normal space, and both ships in a webbing bubble?) Edit: for clarity
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:51:00 - [44] Originally by: Ariel Dawn A Vagabond within Hyena killing range is not moving fast at all for a few seconds whilst the Hyena's friends are. Friends who also happen to carry webs. Nano-HACs have a very difficult time killing a competent pilot alone. A Vagabond has pathetic DPS after falloff, Ishtars/Curses lose drones like no tommorow, Sacs have poor DPS vs high velocity ships, Huginns/Rapiers need to be within return fire range to even begin thinking of killing a proper ship. A group of Nano-HACs is needed to kill targets effectively, and likewise a group of people is usually (but not always in the case of heavy neuts) required to kill them as well. And don't spout some random garbage about how needing more than 1 person to kill another player is imbalanced. I've been solo pirating for the past half year, and 98% of 1 vs 1 turn into 1 vs 10 within a minute of engagement. EVE is not a solo game and does not encourage solo piloting, and I know this is true no matter how stubborn I may be. It is as difficult to solo a Nano-HAC (as in actually killing it) as it is to kill a ship that is jamming/dampening/tanking/kiting/whatever your ship. No single ship can kill a tanked Hyperion, Abaddon, or Maelstrom solo within a reasonable time frame, so you bring more people. Thats EVE. This, essentially. For instance, I fly a Hurricane a lot. The reaction to seeing any solo nano-HAC is just 'hehe, let's try to catch him'. They're relatively horrible at actually killing proper ships. What they are good at is groups where you can disengage more easily then in the more conventional setups, and can move past camps/etc relatively easily. Still, the issue isn't really that you can't kill nanoships with equal numbers, the issue is that people lose ships because they were either solo vs five ships (and didn't have a fighting chance, but you're not going to have a fighting chance versus a normal gang with a falcon supporting solo either, no real point about whining here) or they were in a gang vs gang fight where they didn't bring in the necessary support for gang fights. If you lose versus a nano-ship solo, it's probably because you fail at EvE or expect a T1 cruiser to win over a T2 cruiser or something silly like that. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:03:00 - [45] /facepalm How many times do we have to explain this? ITS NOT SINGLE/SOLO NANO HACS THAT ARE A PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN A FLEET ONLY CONSISTS OF THESE. YOU CANNOT BASICALLY HARM THEM. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer /facepalm How many times do we have to explain this? ITS NOT SINGLE/SOLO NANO HACS THAT ARE A PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN A FLEET ONLY CONSISTS OF THESE. YOU CANNOT BASICALLY HARM THEM. The problem is, they won't fight a gang which could harm them, and I don't see a problem with picking your fights. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:14:00 - [47] Originally by: Cpt Branko The problem is, they won't fight a gang which could harm them, and I don't see a problem with picking your fights. That is risk free pvp wich you CANNOT participate in anything except fast ships. How is this helping variety? It aint. Its easy mode eve that doesnt need scouting, planning or FCing. Its noob pvp and it needs to go away. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:35:00 - [48] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Cpt Branko The problem is, they won't fight a gang which could harm them, and I don't see a problem with picking your fights. That is risk free pvp wich you CANNOT participate in anything except fast ships. How is this helping variety? It aint. Its easy mode eve that doesnt need scouting, planning or FCing. Its noob pvp and it needs to go away. This. Thanks for pointing this out with the right words! *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. Originally by: Mitnal Locked, one troll after another. Mitnal, Community Representative
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 02:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Cpt Branko The problem is, they won't fight a gang which could harm them, and I don't see a problem with picking your fights. That is risk free pvp wich you CANNOT participate in anything except fast ships. How is this helping variety? It aint. Its easy mode eve that doesnt need scouting, planning or FCing. Its noob pvp and it needs to go away. You are the one asking for noob pvp and for people to throw ships at you for you to kill them when they use their head and think they shouldn't engage. You are the one telling people that they must jump into your gatecamp cuz otherwise they are noobs. You are the one who is asking for easy pvp.
Delnas White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:04:00 - [50] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Cpt Branko The problem is, they won't fight a gang which could harm them, and I don't see a problem with picking your fights. That is risk free pvp wich you CANNOT participate in anything except fast ships. How is this helping variety? It aint. Its easy mode eve that doesnt need scouting, planning or FCing. Its noob pvp and it needs to go away. There is no risk in EVE. The only time a player's ship is at risk is when he puts it at risk, nano or not. 2SL, Scouts Scanner and Local, removes risk all together. Your only at risk when you willingly engage in an even fight. Nano gangs do need FCs. As much as a normal gang. You've still got to call primary and pick the primary that is the most effective. You still have to scout, ect. It is not noob PvP, it is just PvP. It is not overpowered. **** White-Noise - Now recruiting! Nuff said.

Lynn Seed	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:48:00 - [51] Edited by: Lynn Seed on 03/03/2008 04:50:58 First, let me say, good job White noise! where were you when a certain glutton for punishment was around in an inty and brought his friend in a vaga? :P We had a larger gang than you did, but sill had trouble with them because they wanted to play gate games. Caught them eventually thanks to them getting overeager for a kill. Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky So nano fittings will be nurfed - this is a fact alluded to in the dev blog. Nothing in the game, not even a vegabond should be able to go faster then an interceptor - without a much higher investment of ISK. Thats the benchmark for me - interceptors = fastest ships in the game. Right now, thats not the case. Can nano be countered? Yes. Are there enough counters? No. Should there be more counters? Well, its either make more counters or slow eve down a tad. And it will happen. . .the question is, how much. Can someone link the dev blog/ quote in question? I've looked, but not very good at finding things, even with search :( I agree with your final assesment on 'nano' hacs. Personal opinion is hacs have too low a mass slightly and polycarbs give a little too much bonus, especially compared to nanofibers. Edit: left out punishment...
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:50:00 - [52] Edited by: Victor Ivanov on 03/03/2008 05:53:44 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Cpt Branko The problem is, they won't fight a gang which could harm them, and I don't see a problem with picking your fights. That is risk free pvp wich you CANNOT participate in anything except fast ships. How is this helping variety? It aint. Its easy mode eve that doesnt need scouting, planning or FCing. Its noob pvp and it needs to go away. How is this an argument against nanos? Picking your fights has never been an issue, and if a nano gang DOES engage, there are a myriad of methods of horribly massacring them without requiring nanos yourself. This is why baiting is used throughout 0.0: To force nano ships to engage and then neut/web them while laughing at their pitiful damage. But meh. You are right, pvp is pretty much dead in EVE. Everyone runs from everything, blobbing is a feasible alternative to tactics and skill and there are too many ways for people to evade combat through illogical means, such as cloaking for eternities or docking games in NPC stations. Keep nanos as they are, they are fun to kill. But implement functions that allow you to force pilots to engage more. The webbing proposal with different class webs is a brilliant example. A 50km base web range on a battleship that slows down by 20% will make fights more interesting. ----------------------
Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer /facepalm How many times do we have to explain this? ITS NOT SINGLE/SOLO NANO HACS THAT ARE A PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN A FLEET ONLY CONSISTS OF THESE. YOU CANNOT BASICALLY HARM THEM. Incompetent people like you are probably the reason we see all this blobbage in the game and whining on the forums. We killed a nanogang just fine with just a couple BS and BC, others killed our nanogangs with just a BS and a BC. How it¦s done I won¦t repeat it, others said it countless times. Now if your problem is the nanoships running away, I will refer you to an event that just happened yesterday that may give you a hint about the purpose of nanogangs. Some local people that hate us a bit, set a Drake at a belt. We were Vagabond, Ishtar, Rapier, Curse. We know full well it¦s a bait, but what the hell let¦s engage. We do, local spikes, in come their interceptors, Blackbirds, and half a dozen BC, mostly other drakes. Once we see interceptors on scanner, we disengage and safespot. Local erupts: >cowards, you suck, come fight, come die, hahaha losers blah blah, go cry etc Meanwhile, the Rapier spots them at a SS 1500km off the station, with the 2 Blackbirds separated from the main fleet by approx 30km. So a hit and run is decided. 14.5 minutes later, the local smacktalker erupts "it¦s almost time for you to run, your gcc will be gone soon" At this very moment, the Ishtar, Vaga and Curse warp on the Rapier that had positioned between the 2 Blackbirds. The Rapier decloaks and keeps the fast ships in the main fleet unable to approach, while the 3 other gang members vaporized the 2 blackbirds in about 20 seconds. Local goes silent. Then: >Haha you suck, we killed some of your drones A very fun fight, where tactics count more than numbers or firepower, and breaking the morale of the enemy. What¦s your problem? If you can¦t think of a way to counter a nanogang with just a single BS in your gang, it¦s your problem, not ours or CCP¦s. Vagabonds and other fast ships were around for years, but seems that a recent wave of immobile gatecampers and other incompetent species want to adjust the game to their standards. Nanos don¦t kill people. Incompetence and paranoia kill people. Or rather make them suicide. Just remember this next time you fail to coordinate your thoughts to counter the omgwtfnanogang: Dead people don¦t whine
slaminen2	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:17:00 - [54] People cry without any clue of what they are talking about. So...what else is new? Same thing with nanoships, same thing with Amarr whine. I wouldn't care but there's always the chance that some of the devs would get convinced that this is what the players want... Honestly, most players, me included, don't have enough experience or general knowledge to be taken seriously. Even most 3 year vets. There are jsut that many people who have no clue. Really. I just hope the devs keep cool and don't get too much influenced by fotm whines.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 13:30:00 - [55] Originally by: Munenori Yubei Something is overpowered when it can't be overcome, HACs can be overcome, so they can't be overpowered. I don't think it's as clinical as that. If you have to change practically your entire ship/gang makeup just to account for one class of ship then that's overpowered really.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.03.03 14:58:00 - [56] I too once stood on the Nano's were overpowerd side of the argument but that was after my initial encounters with them. I've come to accept that as a non nano pilot I simply cannot kill a nano ship by myself (short of the nano pilot being an idiot of course). More importantly I've found that a nano ship can only kill me given a great deal of time (1v1). Thus, by simply bringing a single module (Heavy Neut) I can force the fight to finish quickly - I won't kill them unles they don't notice their MWD clicked off but then again I survived the battle, which is more than enough for me. There are multiple solutions to nano ships, there really are. Any ship that sacrifices EVERYTHING to excell at ONE thing is inheritly easily counterable if you plan for them. To fight a nano you target his speed, and in this regard cap warfare is the best possible solution (a nano ship will not, as a rule anyway, close into web range). In all my encounters with nano ships, I've only been killed by a SOLO nano twice. (Once in a blackbird where I was unlucky enough to miss 12 total jams (4 jammers, 3 cycles each, once in a ferrox () fitted with rat trash, but lets face it, just HOW hard was that to accomplish) The one TRUE advantage nano ships have is the ability to run away - and to earn this most ships give up their ability to hurt people and take damage in return if it all goes south. I'd say that's an acceptable tradeoff in my book.
Captain Sonata	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:42:00 - [57] To sum up: - Solo is dead - Nano is overpowered - Ishtar needs a drone nerf to 75 drone usage instead of 125(whatever the units are)
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Tefkros Incompetent people like you are probably the reason we see all this blobbage in the game and whining on the forums. Yeah? Watch my latest vid btw. Oh and how does incompetent people like me blob with a 1 man corp? You fail at flaming. This has nothing to do with my capabilities. Ive adapted, I fly nanos too but it doesnt mean I have to like what this game is turning into. Rest of your post is fail, stories mean jack ****. You know the state of nano is the way Ive explained it. Youre just too cheap to buy ships for real pvp where you can actually lose it. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Derek Sigres The one TRUE advantage nano ships have is the ability to run away - and to earn this most ships give up their ability to hurt people and take damage in return if it all goes south. I'd say that's an acceptable tradeoff in my book. Since 95% of pvp are more or less ganks that dps loss is negligable. This is what most people dont understand or dont want to admit. So what you basically have is a fleet that can run from just about any engagement and cant be trapped but they can gank and win 95% of engagements and downside is that they cant beat 5% of the pvp scene. While a real fleet risks dying everytime they engage, they cant run from traps but in exchange they can maybe engage some of those 5% that the nano fleet cant. Wow great tradeoff. Its a crap tradeoff in my book -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Delnas White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:56:00 - [60] Edited by: Delnas on 03/03/2008 18:06:39 Originally by: Captain Sonata To sum up: - Solo is dead - Nano is overpowered - Ishtar needs a drone nerf to 75 drone usage instead of 125(whatever the units are) - No. - No. - Again, no. More mass, maybe? Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tefkros Incompetent people like you are probably the reason we see all this blobbage in the game and whining on the forums. Yeah? Watch my latest vid btw. Oh and how does incompetent people like me blob with a 1 man corp? You fail at flaming. This has nothing to do with my capabilities. Ive adapted, I fly nanos too but it doesnt mean I have to like what this game is turning into. Rest of your post is fail, stories mean jack **. You know the state of nano is the way Ive explained it. Youre just too cheap to buy ships for real pvp where you can actually lose it. Lets not turn this into a flame war. It just makes you look incompetent, Lyria, when you try desperately to start one, but more importantly it devalues the community. More to the point, videos show skill no better then stories. One amazing combat scene in a video could come after 256 losses. Your ability with the camera is nice and the videos are neat, however, it adds nothing to your argument. Originally by:** Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Derek Sigres The one TRUE advantage nano ships have is the ability to run away - and to earn this most ships give up their ability to hurt people and take damage in return if it all goes south. I'd say that's an acceptable tradeoff in my book. Since 95% of pvp are more or less ganks that dps loss is negligable. This is what most people dont understand or dont want to admit. So what you basically have is a fleet that can run from just about any engagement and cant be trapped but they can gank and win 95% of engagements and downside is that they cant beat 5% of the pvp scene. While a real fleet risks dying everytime they engage, they cant run from traps but in exchange they can maybe engage some of those 5% that the nano fleet cant. Wow great tradeoff. Its a crap tradeoff in my book A good 20% of PvP is DPS output. Another 20% is tank. Another 10% is probably Ewar. The other 50% is tactics and setup. The right ship for the right job. A fleet of nanos is powerful. A fleet of any ship is powerful. Get a gang of Battleships, warp in at range, pop a cruiser, and warp back out before Interceptors catch you. Thats what a gang of Nano-Ships have to do too. They just need to get closer. Nanos can run through Bubble Camps, but they'll lose a few of their ships. A normal fleet can fight through Bubble Camps, but they'll lose a few of their ships. The Nano-Trade off is large; No DPS, no web, a pretty big uninsurable isk investment, and decent risk to it too. Watching ships slow boat it to the gate, deagres and jump/dock. I can just imagine the frustration. Nanos don't help the blob, they help the small. Without Nanos small gangs and solo players will have a lot harder time in 0.0. Save the nanos, they are not overpowered. **** White-Noise - Now recruiting! Nuff said.

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