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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.03 22:44:00 -
[1]
This is not a game proposal (not yet anyway), so it doesn't belong in the other subforum.
The idea would be to have a module that COULD be used to stop a non-warp-stabilized ship from taking off at pretty much any range you can lock it at, but even one T1 WCS would negate one hundred of these mods targetted on the same enemy.
On one hand, this would mean everybody who DOESN'T have a WCS can now be pinned down (comitted to combat) from just about any range.
On the other hand, one single WCS is still pretty bad for any combat fit, so it kinda' equalizes.
What would you say, WOULD this be a good idea to begin with ?
I mean, would it improve the gameplay in any way at all, or would it be just one more nail in the "small scale PvP" coffin ?
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.03 22:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 03/03/2008 22:45:56
Well, it would be just as stupid as every other idea you've ever come up with.
The best idea you could come up with is getting yourself banned from the forums.
 Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Ethaet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.03.03 22:47:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Akita T
nail in the "small scale PvP" coffin
sums it up quite nicely.
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Maglorre
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Posted - 2008.03.03 22:49:00 -
[4]
Learn to fly an Arazu and buy a couple of nice faction scrams. No changes needed.
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Vasili vonHolst
Minmatar
Gargamel's Lair
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:01:00 -
[5]
fail
------------------------------------------------
Movie: + Trillion ISK damage to Care Bear community |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 03/03/2008 22:45:56
Well, it would be just as stupid as every other idea you've ever come up with.
The best idea you could come up with is getting yourself banned from the forums.
Going to agree with the goon on this one
CCP: Were like a clock upon a wall, Always moving but never going anywhere.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/03/2008 23:15:01
@ An Anarchyyt : hmm, so hostile all of a sudden. No other comment.
@ Ethaet : well, that's why I said it like I've said it, didn't I ?
@ Maglorre : I'm well aware of what ranges you can get with that (especially if you have a skirmish warfare mindlinked commander in your gang with the proper link active), even with "stock T2" gear, not just faction. Still, you *can't* get 249 km scramble range... now can you, eh ? Nope, you can't, not even close.
The main idea was just a small step forward in the "commit to combat" philosophy CCP seems to entertain.
If you can engage the enemy from almost 250km with an "all sniper" fleet, why not also let the enemy lock you down to that combat ?
Sure, you can turn it the other way around and say "well, why couldn't the snipers then lock YOU down", and I'll say that's exactly the point of it being 0.01, not a 1-point warp scramble strength... all it takes is a single WCS to get out of it.
If you DON'T fit a WCS, you will be vulnerable to getting locked down by just about anybody anywhere (and sniper fits become so much more effective, since now a SOLO sniper might actually get a shot at killing an enemy thet's NOT a frigate or untanked hauler every once in a while)... if you do fit one, you will suffer from lock range/time issues, so that pretty much almost completely rules out a sniper fit to begin with (therefore, snipers ARE vulnerable to just about any ship, especially other snipers, without the WCS on).
You maintain (at lest to some degree) the "rock-paper-scissors" approach, you still have the regular ups and downs, you just add a lot more "commital" to the plate, ESPECIALLY for small scale combat (as in, number of ships, not their size).
All "carebear" fits would have one slot dedicated to a WCS, most combat fits would be split between having one or not having one... and blockade runners become a lot more attractive for carebears.
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:15:00 -
[8]
Because the reason people use sniper fleets is because they can warp out, no tonly that theres a lot of strategy that goes into being able to escape from combat which if removed would make the game much more warp in lock shoot wait to see who dies.... |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:19:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/03/2008 23:23:15
It will also make ECM and damps a much more pertinent choice, and there WOULD be a point in fitting WCS to a combat build... sacrificing engagement range for that.
A 250km sniper fleet without WCS could then indeed hold down and kill a 200km sniper fleet without WCSs, but a 150km sniper fleet WITH WCSs will be able to out-maneouver (not just out-damage) a 250-km sniper fleet.
That's just one more thing you'd have to consider, it's not a "death sentence".
Also, it would finally make the "ECM burst" of a mothership a pretty powerful "fleet escape" plan, in case things head south, and motherships do need something to make'em realy useful (not to say necessary) in fleet combat, for how much they cost.
And so on and so forth.
____
Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying this is a good idea.
I'm just saying, I'd really want some pertinent counter-arguments, other than "it would change stuff so I don't like it" or worse, a simple "fail".
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facepalm johnson
a sackful of sacrificial sacrifices
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:26:00 -
[10]
gah... please get back into the MD forum...
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T
The main idea was just a small step forward in the "commit to combat" philosophy CCP seems to entertain.
The more this philosophy is imposed on the sand box, the less sand there will be. The commit to combat leads to blobs, leads to lag, limits player options and turns PVP into little more than two groups of people throwing hand grenades at each other in a small concrete room. It's shallow and unimaginative.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/03/2008 23:34:38
So... you're saying CCP should not only reject this kind of idea, but also reverse some of the "commit to combat" changes that they have made in the more or less recent past ?
Now we're getting somewhere 
P.S. See what I did there ?
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ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:35:00 -
[13]
I am just waiting for CCP to make it such that if you are targeted your Warp Drive stops working. No Scramblers, no Dictors, no Bubble, just Target Lock = No Run Away. It seems to be the direction they are going anyway.
+++++++++++++++
For the LAST time...
Keep your UGLY Typhoon off my SEXY Hurricane |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ZerKar
I am just waiting for CCP to make it such that if you are targeted your Warp Drive stops working. No Scramblers, no Dictors, no Bubble, just Target Lock = No Run Away. It seems to be the direction they are going anyway.
At least you detected sarcasm a bit earlier and reciprocated in kind, unlike the rest of the above
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ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2008.03.03 23:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
At least you detected sarcasm a bit earlier and reciprocated in kind, unlike the rest of the above
Yeah, I am neat that way. Honestly though, I am of the firm belief that if you are going to go half way you may as well go the full way. I for one would much rather enjoy the hunt rather than having the catch be so easy, buut if CCP wants it to be auto-commited then why not just MAKE it that way and stop wasting my time with the half assed bs.
+++++++++++++++
For the LAST time...
Keep your UGLY Typhoon off my SEXY Hurricane |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.04 00:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
P.S. See what I did there ?
I do. The thought had crossed my mind while I was writting the post, but with so much back and forth on the forums, it's easier on my sanity to take things at face value and simply stick to my positions. :)
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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mothermoon2
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Posted - 2008.03.04 00:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ZerKar
Edited by: ZerKar on 03/03/2008 23:38:41
I am just waiting for CCP to make it such that if you are targeted your Warp Drive stops working. No Scramblers, no Dictors, no Bubble, just Target Lock = No Run Away.
Furthermore, if you are in 0.0 and a ship with Sovergnty warps into your location or you warp into theirs you are automatically unable to warp away. Moreoever, if you are at a gate in said 0.0 spot with the sovergn ship present the gate will not activate for you until that ship has been destroyed.
Seems to be the way CCP is moving anyway, may as well just get it over with.
why why does your sig has a furry version of one my favorte characters! what's the piint? I don't get itAGHHHH.
anyways the problem I notic on these forums is everyone is like
"oh bombers cost to little points, double them"
or
"minmatar guns need a boost, you could half the ammo use"
or
"20km isn't enough range on a scram, make it 250km"
or
"lasers don't do a lot of damage triple the dps and half the alpha"
why does it have to come down to HUGE changes in order to make balance? it reminds me of the pokemon people used to make up in middle school.
like ultramon, he's got hyper super beam and 800000 attack and is so awesome, I toattly think he should be in pokemon.
WHY?
making a balnced character just isn't in the spirit of the normal person it seems, everything has to be over the top and better awesome to the point of a silly nature, but they see nothing wrong with it.
oh well good try though I se what the point of you thread was but CCP don't do these insane RAWR changes either.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.03.04 00:53:00 -
[18]
This is a whacked out idea. /thread
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Agil TradeAlt
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Posted - 2008.03.04 00:55:00 -
[19]
Game needs longer range webs rather than scramblers.
Originally by: CCP kieron
ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
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Paeniteo
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.03.04 01:20:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Paeniteo on 04/03/2008 01:24:51
Originally by: Agil TradeAlt
Game needs longer range webs rather than scramblers.
I back this idea if the strength of webbing was nerfed harder as range increased.
Back on the main topic, well, it kinda fails doesn't it. /humoured 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.04 01:43:00 -
[21]
Back to the main topic, if this idea that goes
---------> that way
is so freaking wrong that it incites flames from just about anybody, you have to ask yourself, is the current status quo "ok" like it is not ?
Wouldn't then the game maybe, jusy maybe benefit from a small change
<- that way
instead ? Huh ?
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Donna Maria
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.04 03:32:00 -
[22]
Ahh, I love it when the new people post. Same stupid recycled ideas over and over.. Bleh!
Im the girl momma warned you about..
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Nasta443
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Posted - 2008.03.04 04:58:00 -
[23]
Horrible horrible idea.
And the more ccp insists in making it easier to escape with your ship the less people there are willing to fight and the more they hug high sec.
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Nasta443
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/03/2008 23:34:38
So... you're saying CCP should not only reject this kind of idea, but also reverse some of the "commit to combat" changes that they have made in the more or less recent past ?
Now we're getting somewhere
P.S. See what I did there ?
Why? CCP is Always Right and will never recognize it's made a mistake anywhere. With increasing hordes of carebears that CCP fails to stimulate to leave the comfy highsec chair, and blobs grow and grow and grow, one could think that there's something wrong. But no. It's all ok. Move on. Nothing to see here.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:36:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Grendelsbane on 04/03/2008 05:41:03
WCS fitted on combat ships = FAIL, due to nerfage.
This is because CCP fails to understand opportunity cost.
Furthermore, CCP suffers a similar failure in creative thinking (at worst, or implementation, at best) in how to force engagements. All these scrammer, bubble, and warp core shenannigans are simply a bandaid covering the fact that often there isn't really any REASON to stay and fight.
How about a smaller POS type structure with some really basic functionality that is easier and cheaper to put up and maintain, yet is a realistic target for reasonable numbers of non-capital ships?
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Waukesha
Amarr
Extreme Addiction
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 03/03/2008 22:45:56
Well, it would be just as stupid as every other idea you've ever come up with.
The best idea you could come up with is getting yourself banned from the forums.
Going to agree with the goon on this one
zomg I agree with the goon too...
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ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: mothermoon2
Originally by: ZerKar
Edited by: ZerKar on 03/03/2008 23:38:41
I am just waiting for CCP to make it such that if you are targeted your Warp Drive stops working. No Scramblers, no Dictors, no Bubble, just Target Lock = No Run Away.
Furthermore, if you are in 0.0 and a ship with Sovergnty warps into your location or you warp into theirs you are automatically unable to warp away. Moreoever, if you are at a gate in said 0.0 spot with the sovergn ship present the gate will not activate for you until that ship has been destroyed.
Seems to be the way CCP is moving anyway, may as well just get it over with.
why why does your sig has a furry version of one my favorte characters! what's the piint? I don't get itAGHHHH.
anyways the problem I notic on these forums is everyone is like
"oh bombers cost to little points, double them"
or
"minmatar guns need a boost, you could half the ammo use"
or
"20km isn't enough range on a scram, make it 250km"
or
"lasers don't do a lot of damage triple the dps and half the alpha"
why does it have to come down to HUGE changes in order to make balance? it reminds me of the pokemon people used to make up in middle school.
like ultramon, he's got hyper super beam and 800000 attack and is so awesome, I toattly think he should be in pokemon.
WHY?
making a balnced character just isn't in the spirit of the normal person it seems, everything has to be over the top and better awesome to the point of a silly nature, but they see nothing wrong with it.
oh well good try though I se what the point of you thread was but CCP don't do these insane RAWR changes either.
Because a little bit of fur goes a long way . Though your intimate knowledge of Poke'mon belies some interesting truths as well...But that is for a different place and thread.
As for balance, naaah, people do not want balance. People want "I win, you lose 100% no questions asked!" power-gaming BS. They always want that.
As for my suggestion just trying to keep it in-line with where CCP is going with this HIC idea.
+++++++++++++++
For the LAST time...
Keep your UGLY Typhoon off my SEXY Hurricane |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.04 06:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Donna Maria
Ahh, I love it when the new people post. Same stupid recycled ideas over and over.. Bleh!
Might want to check your assumptions first next time maybe ?
And the sarcasm filter needs cleaning too.
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2008.03.04 10:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T
Or, to re-state the obvious for those that can't seem to grasp it if it knocks on their door with a sledgehammer:
a) if CCP cares about this "commit to combat" philosophy so much, this would be the next logical step
b) if you think their approach is wrong, you have to speak out against the CURRENT status quo too
Yes but if you agree with their current approach but think that like all things it needs to be approached carefully and not with a sledgehammer, and that maybe they've already got it right with the current change and do not need to change it further then neither of these two statements is true and your arguement disappears in a puff of logic.... |
Dotries
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Posted - 2008.03.04 13:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ZerKar
Edited by: ZerKar on 03/03/2008 23:38:41
I am just waiting for CCP to make it such that if you are targeted your Warp Drive stops working. No Scramblers, no Dictors, no Bubble, just Target Lock = No Run Away.
Furthermore, if you are in 0.0 and a ship with Sovergnty warps into your location or you warp into theirs you are automatically unable to warp away. Moreoever, if you are at a gate in said 0.0 spot with the sovergn ship present the gate will not activate for you until that ship has been destroyed.
Seems to be the way CCP is moving anyway, may as well just get it over with.
QFT
--------------
Stupid Monkey.
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