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CreoDron behind unscheduled gate activations?

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Author	Topic
Kesper North Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:37:00 - [1] Edited by: Kesper North on 04/03/2008 07:38:24 In this post I discussed a very simple method which the general capsuleer population can use to attempt to deduce the content of the redacted portions of the leaked CONCORD Code Aria Inquiry report. In that report several references are made to a particular corporation being the prime suspect behind the unscheduled gate activations that led to the opening of the Drone Regions. This corporation is alluded to being based in the Gallente Federation and having a strong interest in drone research. And we know from the length of the redacted strings that the name of the corporation is eight characters long. I think it's pretty obvious which corporation this has to be. A Gallente corporation with a strong interest in drones and an eight-letter name -- who else could it be but CreoDron? This is, regrettably, typical of what is wrong with Gallente society: the rampant greed and egotism of a single corporation putting everyone in the Cluster at risk, and paving the way for the rise of an enemy that may prove more dangerous than any pirate factions or posthuman outsiders could ever be: a truly alien intelligence, and one totally inimical to us. CreoDron ought to be ashamed. I, for one, don't plan on giving them any more of my money. I suggest you all do the same.
Drachtul Tun'Dull	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:15:00 - [2] This lecture on corporate greed from a Caldari? Wasn't it a Caldari megacorp with the ties to a certain pirate faction? Wasn't it the heads of Caldari megacorps who instigated the rebellion all those years ago? The difference between innovation and public safety depends now on rather arbitrary laws and later on whether they were successful in their aims. Feel free to vote with your ISK, per your cultural standards. Somehow, though, I don't think you'd be so quick to jump to conclusions if it was a Caldari corporation implicated in this. In fact, I have heard rumors of a Caldari corporation hiring capsuleer pilots to clean up some AI-taking-over-ships incident. Simply because CONCORD has not chosen to take official notice doesn't mean it is any more ethical. Or that it won't turn up in some leaked, redacted report ten years from now. There is obviously a very real public safety problem with developing freestanding AI's capable of interstellar travel, but there is obviously a profit motive that leads those who think in terms of spreadsheets to disregard that. It has happened time and again, according to the report, and according to stories swapped by pod pilots. If CONCORD believe CreoDron should be punished for endangering the core worlds, then they will be punished. If the Gallente Federation believes that CreoDron should be punished, then they will take action. However, how many other reports like this have not been leaked? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. CONCORD is not all-knowing, and CONCORD is not all-powerful. Else we would know the identity of the assassin of the late Emperor Doriam III. Else Federation supercapital ships would not have been stolen and the crime gone unnoticed by CONCORD. Else there wouldn't have been the kidnapping of scientists at a highly classified, intergovernmental shared research facility. Else we wouldn't have half the Amarr Empire left at the mercy of pirates, and the pod pilots who fight the pirates. There are much larger concerns than trying to cast blame for some alien boogeyman on one corporation. By doing so, you only highlight the irony of the statement, considering the source.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Heretic Logistics DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:19:00 - [3] Couldn't have put it any better than Mr. Tun'Dull. And your opinions on Gallente society - you're welcome to them. I feel no need to refute them as the same could be said of Ishukone, whose actions ruined the Crielere project and spawned the Omerta Syndicate (not in that I feel any direct hostility towards the Omerta Syndicate, but in that they were forced to form due to the actions of Ishukone). Kaalakiota is a brilliant master of false propaganda, and in general, the less said about protein delicacies, the better. ----- "I am prepared to meet my maker; whether my maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
Drachtul Tun'Dull	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Couldn't have put it any better than Mr. Tun'Dull. And your opinions on Gallente society - you're welcome to them. I feel no need to refute them as the same could be said of Ishukone, whose actions ruined the Crielere project and spawned the Omerta Syndicate (not in that I feel any direct hostility towards the Omerta Syndicate, but in that they were forced to form due to the actions of Ishukone). Kaalakiota is a brilliant master of false propaganda, and in general, the less said about protein delicacies, the better. Um, protein delicacies? What about them? Should I be worried about my crew's health?
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Heretic Logistics DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:34:00 - [5] Let's just say that the "protein" comes from... highly questionable sources. In certain cases, they were found to be made of "Grade A" biomaterials, otherwise referred to as "uncertified human cadavers". ----- "I am prepared to meet my maker; whether my maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
Drachtul Tun'Dull	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Let's just say that the "protein" comes from... highly questionable sources. In certain cases, they were found to be made of "Grade A" biomaterials, otherwise referred to as "uncertified human cadavers". Oh. As long as they were thoroughly processed. I was afraid it was something like toxic waste.
William Darkk Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:11:00 - [7] Edited by: William Darkk on 04/03/2008 15:11:39 Originally by: Drachtul Tun'Dull Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Let's just say that the "protein" comes from... highly questionable sources. In certain cases, they were found to be made of "Grade A" biomaterials, otherwise referred to as "uncertified human cadavers". Oh. As long as they were thoroughly processed. I was afraid it was something like toxic waste. Eh, I'm not sure I'd want to eat a booster junkie, no matter how "thoroughly" he was processed. Anyway, on the main topic- It makes sense for Creodron to have done crazy stuff with drones, but activating the gates seems odd. What do they gain by this act? -------------------------------------------------- <3 my Drones
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.03.04 20:04:00 - [8] I also find the suspicions around CreoDron still a bit weak. There are millions of Gallente corporations out there with eight letter names, and though they aren't as big as CreoDron, any of them could have done it. It is still soon and with too few proofs to claim such a big affirmation yet. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Kesper North Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.03.04 20:09:00 - [9] After doing some historical research I'm forced to admit that the ruling corporations of the State have been responsible for as many crimes and unfortunate incidents as any other interstellar polity. In my people's defense, however, I'd like to point out that we at least sent capsuleers to clean up our, ah, drone control excursion. We didn't actually try to encourage the blasted things to spread! That's the difference I'm getting at - we were wise enough to recognize that we were putting society at risk and did what was necessary to stop the threat, whereas CreoDron seems intent on using the rogue drones as a product development exercise! Monsieur Darkk, you wanted to know what CreoDron gains by opening up the Drone Regions; I'm fairly certain that's it. The rogue drones are learning and evolving, as they were designed to do, and by setting the capsuleers loose on them CreoDron turned up the environmental pressure on the things, forcing them to adapt more quickly. CreoDron is thus taking careful notes of any improvements they can make to their next generation of drones. Exploiting the evolutionary genetic algorithms of a dangerously rogue artificial intelligence is the very height of social irresponsibility. I applaud their willingness to test the boundaries of science and technology, but this is clearly an avenue of research that should be avoided. The Caldari have already learned that, and the sooner CreoDron figures it out, the safer all of us will be. I'll admit it's a profitable move -- I was exploring a new system along with a couple of corpmates last night, and we stumbled upon a sizeable drone nest. They put up a fierce fight -- fielding six battleships and innumerable cruisers and frigates -- and once the fighting was over we salvaged some components that are clearly far more advanced than anything on the market in Empire space. Which is, I am sure, precisely what CreoDron wants, so I certainly won't be selling them anywhere near Gallente space. Frankly, I'm tempted to reprocess the things into their component minerals just to make sure, for all that I could make a lot of isk off the sale. I know, I know, that's a very un-Caldari thing to say. But we are not mindless corporados; our first duty is to the State and to Society, and indeed to the species as a whole. I intend to remain mindful of that duty tonight; we discovered a tracking transponder in the wreckage of the drone nest last night that will lead us to the mother hive. We'll be gathering a fleet and going after it tonight, and I for one intend to make sure that there is nothing left afterward but dust and echoes.
Kesper North Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.03.04 20:22:00 - [10] Edited by: Kesper North on 04/03/2008 20:22:30 I am suprised at your skepticism, Sepherim. What other company would have the resources, the interest, and the will for such an undertaking? In my opinion this required resources that only the largest megacorporations and nation-states can wield. If you have any other culprits to suggest, though, I'd be interested to hear it.

Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:58:00 - [11] Mr North, my skepticism is not necessarily so, but precaution. Your claims here are too big, and too weak. Without more solid proof than that, they are pointless. You can't go around claiming such big things so easily. And even if the story about "forced evolution" just told is a bit more solid, it still is circumstancial and umproven yet. I don't say you are wrong, I just say this is not enough. By far. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:34:00 - [12] Reviewing the document, I just came upon this lines: Quote: æAfter review of application for research permit into drone cognitive applied for by the xxxxxxxx corporation we have decided to reject the application at this time. xxxxxxxx currently have 23 such permits active at this time, with 17 being utilised by the xxxxxxxxx laboratory. So, at least there are 6 other permits used by other corporations, which proves that more corporations exist deep in this field. Surely CreoDron is one of them, but the one that started all this? No clear proof exists of that. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
William Darkk Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Sepherim Reviewing the document, I just came upon this lines: Quote: æAfter review of application for research permit into drone cognitive applied for by the xxxxxxxx corporation we have decided to reject the application at this time. xxxxxxxx currently have 23 such permits active at this time, with 17 being utilised by the xxxxxxxxx laboratory. So, at least there are 6 other permits used by other corporations, which proves that more corporations exist deep in this field. Surely CreoDron is one of them, but the one that started all this? No clear proof exists of that. That's laboratory, not corporation. The eight-letter entity has 23 permits, 17 being used by one lab. I wouldn't want to live near that lab. -------------------------------------------------- <3 my Drones
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Heretic Logistics DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:11:00 - [14] A more glaring objection I would have with this whole thing would be how, exactly, CreoDron were able to activate the gates, particularly the ones that were physically inside the drone regions, since that would require them to have used warp technology which apparently isn't available to capsuleers (as capsule-fitted ships are, for some bizarre reason, currently unable to warp between systems for no adequately-explained reason). They'd also need access codes that perhaps only CONCORD knows, and quite possibly physical access to a system contained in facility that CONCORD and the Empires themselves quite possibly have exclusive docking rights to. It just seems too monumental a task even for CreoDron. ----- "I am prepared to meet my maker; whether my maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.03.08 16:17:00 - [15] Me bows, acknowledging his error. -And yes, Mr Ixiris has a point there. The gates were open from the inside, but yet with those codes. Which means that someone had access both to the inside and the outside (to gatehr the codes). And there is only one nation known for their love for spying and opening and closing gates...- Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Kesper North	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:13:00 - [16] Mr. Sepherim, you suggest that the Jovians may be responsible for the gate activation? I hadn't considered that. Certainly it is within their capability, but what would they have to gain from it? If you're correct, the implication of CreoDron (or some other Gallente corporation) may be a ruse -- one that CONCORD appears to be falling for.
Guillome Renard	Posted - 2008.03.13 15:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Kesper North Mr. Sepherim, you suggest that the Jovians may be responsible for the gate activation? I hadn't considered that. Certainly it is within their capability, but what would they have to gain from it? If you're correct, the implication of CreoDron (or some other Gallente corporation) may be a ruse -- one that CONCORD appears to be falling for. You're misreading the report, Mr. North. I say this not only as a Gallente pilot, but also as a concerned citizen of the regions immediately under threat from the newly opened gates. CreoDrone may have been responsible for the original Orphyx Incident, but I accept their claim of overzealous ignorance. Human error has caused far greater disasters, after all. The gate activation itself, however, was not done with the professional flair that one would expect of CreoDron. Their technicians are masters of remote systems interfacing, the gate hack - while clever and apt - was very clumsy and basic. Had CreoDron been the one to open the gates, it's doubtful they'dve left a trail. Additionally, lifting the rug that was laid over their earlier error would be a grevious mistake that CreoDron simply would not make twice. The Jovians are also not responsible. They wouldn't need the gates. Remember, there are no gates to their space at this time. This had to have been a lone individual, perhaps a small group. If you must... perhaps individual members of CreoDron's staff were at fault - but that is a very different thing from saying the megacorporation acted in concert in this regard. Profit motives and secrets don't make very good bedfellows, remember. This event doesn't have "Profit motive" written upon it, however. This has some other, psychological purpose written in it. What that is I can't say. I have commented on your original post but I will reiterate some of my own theories here: 1) Original Orphyx staff members who survived the incident wish to make contact with their errant creation, for whatever reason. They have the technical expertise and intelligence necessary to learn the methods used to hack the gate network - and also lack the experience in illicit activities that would make them favor subtlety. A neophtye criminal of sufficient genius would fit this order of events perfectly. 2) A cult of some sort intended to open the drone regions in the hopes that the drones would invade and wipe out the human population. Equilibrium of Man seems the usual suspect, and this sort of foolhardy prank seems to be exactly their level of not-thinking-their-clever-plan-all-the-way-through that they are known for. (I, myself have butchered more than a few dozen of their ruffians in a hostage rescue operation staged in a rather ad-hoc manner.) 3) Another, unidentified, rogue AI could have escaped and simply been trying to make contact with its "species." The gates were an obstacle and as any adaptive machine would, it removed the obstacle. This seems less likely to me as it wouldn't make sense for it to bother putting a hold on the system. It would be long gone before CONCORD arrived as it was. There are other theories, but I believe either #1 or #2 are the truth of the matter. This was most likely a human provacateur, with a very specific purpose in mind. Conspiracy theories have the stigma they do simply because it is nigh impossible for secrets to be maintained for very long in such elaborate webs.
Kesper North	Posted - 2008.03.13 19:06:00 - [18] Monsieur Renard, I cannot disagree on any of the points you've raised. Thank you for bringing some clarity and consideration to my overly hasty analysis. I can only plead victim to the passions of youth. I do still most strongly suspect the Orphyx research team, though I cannot rule out the collusion of other elements.
Sepherim	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Guillome Renard The Jovians are also not responsible. They wouldn't need the gates. Remember, there are no gates to their space at this time. Actually, Mr Renard, you are quite wrong with this. The Joves never destroyed the gates that sepparate them from the rest of the EVE cluster, what they did is seal them with a code. They are "locked" to us. Though they can open them, and actually are active in our part of the cluster. You can check so just by looking at some known factors, like how they saved Mr Maeltu from the Imperial troops. Which reminds me that they are, yes, experts in closing and opening gates. In any case, I don't say they were. I lack proofs for such a claim. I just say they are an important probability for it. They have the knowledge, and the chance. As for the reason, who understands those that have betrayed their own bodies and modified themselves beyond what is human? Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Guillome Renard Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.18 18:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Sepherim Originally by: Guillome Renard The Jovians are also not responsible. They wouldn't need the gates. Remember, there are no gates to their space at this time. Actually, Mr Renard, you are quite wrong with this. The Joves never destroyed the gates that sepparate them from the rest of the EVE cluster, what they did is seal them with a code. They are "locked" to us. Though they can open them, and actually are active in our part of the cluster. You can check so just by looking at some known factors, like how they saved Mr Maeltu from the Imperial troops. Which reminds me that they are, yes, experts in closing and opening gates. In any case, I don't say they were. I lack proofs for such a claim. I just say they are an important probability for it. They have the knowledge, and the chance. As for the reason, who understands those that have betrayed their own bodies and modified themselves beyond what is human? I stand corrected, then. I still maintain that they would not have left such a trail behind them, and lack for motive other than idle curiosity about rogue drones. Are there any Jovian members of the Inner circle? It's a pity that CONCORD forgot the most basic rule of military assets, however - redundancy. Those gates should have been watched by more than just their own internal monitoring components. Surveilance on such assets would have been appropriate and would shed much more useful light on this - pardon the pun. Alas, this whole project seems to have been run by civilian observers rather than any decent military planners. It's at once comical, and alarming that CONCORD lacks for military doctrinal standards.

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