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Matthew Johnson
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Posted - 2004.04.07 15:35:00 -
[1]
Hi! Can you guys tell me if there is some way of making money by trading tradegoods? Before Castor is was easy: Travel through several regions, write down supply and demand, get your indy and make money. Now I cannot find any profitable traderoute. Some Dev (I think it was TomB) said he made a new character and was able to make some money trading. Ok, some days you find a nice route, but the supply and demand is only for a few hundred units (which es enought to fill your starter frigate), but if you wanna make money with your advanced Iteron V-flying character (lets say one million ISK for a 15 jump trip), there is no way of doing so. I really miss trading. When I started EVE this was my favourite career, but nowadays the only way to make money is mining and hunting. Or did I miss some way to make money by trading for an advanced character?
Best Matthew +++ Trade...good for you, good for me +++ |
Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.04.07 15:39:00 -
[2]
Try trading player owned and used goods...
NPC trade has had its flame extinguished months ago imho.
Now the trade youd wanna do is sort of comparable to stock market trading...buy and sell goods. Or deliver goods to remote stations and make your money that way. Check out which goods are wanted in remote regions, pack up your hold with those goods and offer them at a higher price then pruchased.
Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.07 15:43:00 -
[3]
Ulendar is right - try placing low-ish buy orders for the most sought after tech II components.
Lazy agent runners will sell 'em off quick which gives you the chance to spend an hour or two in an indy picking them up and carrying them to the hotspots o New Caldari/Nonni/Yulai/Luminaire to sell at very nice prices.
You need a fair amount of collateral but the same rules apply - set below-average buy orders for minerals/ore and be patient. It's not instant richness but it will give you a profit over time.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.04.07 15:53:00 -
[4]
Sadly region spammers crushed the trading profession for everyone bar the very rich and those able to get up around downtime (a situation mostly caused by the addition of the highway gates). Rather than fix the situation properly the entire trading profession got crushed - and the awkward market interface makes the few genuinely viable trade routes that do still exist very fiddly to manage. Bear in mind that from time-to-time new routes do appear *temporarily* connected to news stories, which possibly indicates that the devs do have some sympathy for the 'honest' traders out there - and these can sometimes be worth serious money. I agree though, the idea of EVE being an modern Elitesque game was a strong draw on me when I took the plunge and bought what was my first and still remains the only MMORPG I've ever bought or considered buying. Pure player trading will never replace the nice interaction with the world that trading provided before region spammers started cornering the market.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Matthew Johnson
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Posted - 2004.04.07 15:54:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Matthew Johnson on 07/04/2004 16:00:29 The problem is that such buy orders will give you a lot of small amounts of these components or goods in a lot of different stations. Trading that way is flying around with a small and fast ship and making some 100k ISKs. Some Months ago I made millions by packing my Iteron MK V full of robotics and E-parts and made long trips to sell them. Is what you say really a way of making 5 million/hour? (because I would make more mining in 0.0) Athule, these event-trading is really very nice (deliverey a lot of protein delicious, not knowing which they are made of ), but happen only every few weeks and last for 2-3 days...that¦s really not enough. +++ Trade...good for you, good for me +++ |
Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.04.07 16:03:00 -
[6]
I have posted on this subject in this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68826&page=2 Here's what I said:
The "merchant" profession is seriously lacking in the game.
1) Supply & Demand functions seem to be broken for NPCs. It's too hard to make decent money trading NPC goods, stuff that players don't actually need.
2) Supply & Demand works very well for player goods, like equipment and minerals. However, due to over-globalization, thanks to superhighways, prices remain relatively uniform throughout the world. So being a merchant is not profitable here as well.
Those are the problems that should be fixed. I want to suggest one thing: Remove superhighways that connect different empires. Put superhighways completely inside each faction space. Just make it easy to go from south border to north border, and the like. This is just so travel times aren't too great. Put 0.0 systems between empires. What does this accomplish? It puts a big dent on current state of globalization of economy. With such divisions, each faction would have it's own market, with independently fluctuating prices. It would actually become valuable to move goods between empires. Also, the profit made from such trades would be justified by the risk involved in crossing 0.0 systems between empires. This solution will work well with both player and NPC economics.
Manufacturers won't be very happy about it, since this change would essentially shift some of their profit into the hands of the merchants. So their objections should be taken with a grain of salt. There is very large number of players who like trading, but not manufacturing. So it's for the greater good.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.04.07 16:37:00 -
[7]
Ah well, if you have decent cash to put into it trading loot items by buying off escrow low and selling at normal prices makes a nice isk on the side.
It combines well with npc hunting, just look for bargains when youre at the highway on your weekly loot dropoff visit. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
Enoch Dagor
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Posted - 2004.04.07 17:02:00 -
[8]
I wouldn't say its dead... just takes considerably more time and planning. CCP definitely hasn't made it easy for us.... but its still possible.
To prove it. I had a trade route last night that took 15 minutes to run and got me 1.1 mil profit.
Its possible, just very very very difficult.
-Enoch
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Malice Devilbunny
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Posted - 2004.04.07 17:39:00 -
[9]
Considering the huge influx of E&B folks, they should give trade another look. If they want to add some risk to it, make routes that go through sub .5 zones so that pirates can whack them, but with large profits if they do so. Would promote armed convoys ala the npc ones.
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MrPops
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Posted - 2004.04.07 19:17:00 -
[10]
I had high hopes for the trade profession since beta. Unfortunately, this play style is not even in the radar. The only "trade" I remember doing was in the first month of the game going retail and even then it was lacking barebones system that was riddled with market bugs.
I seriously hope the DEVS put some focus in developing other play styles. We are in serious need of high level content.
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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Kilhu Emmek
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Posted - 2004.04.07 19:38:00 -
[11]
Trade is not dead. It may be coughing a little, but it's definitely not dead. There are a ton of ways to make money trading--not the least of which involve moving minerals around.
The agent missions have skewed trade somewhat, and I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping this sees a fix, but there are still trade routes to be found.
Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:17:00 -
[12]
Quote: Edited by: Matthew Johnson on 07/04/2004 16:00:29 The problem is that such buy orders will give you a lot of small amounts of these components or goods in a lot of different stations. Trading that way is flying around with a small and fast ship and making some 100k ISKs. Some Months ago I made millions by packing my Iteron MK V full of robotics and E-parts and made long trips to sell them. <snip>
well.. you DO know though you can set only to buy if the seller offers a set minimum quantity.. set it up, and you will not get the 1 item per station asset list ----
Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:58:00 -
[13]
You have to remember free market economics teaches that if there is a finite amount of work to be done then the person with the lowest opportunity cost capable of doing it will being doing the work in the long run.
What that is saying no well known finite trade route will ever hold the same profit as end game mining. period.
The reason is that trading can be done by a person with very low opportunity cost. You can have your first indy and relative skills in a few days. All you need from there is some investment capital. This means the field is populated by people with very weak opportunities.
So from this we conclude sure NPC trade routes were popular because they didnt obey the laws of economics absolutely. They simulated them by handing out buy orders on nonmarket signals but in that simulation market signals they did things to keep them profitable for people that could be making much more isk else where. In the fairly real economics of the player driven buy/sell market signals theory says people without much else going for them then an indy will be doing it.
Sooo. If you can mine minerals in space where only 5% of the player base can mine your asking the developers to make an unrealistic world in creating traderoutes that you would think of as worthwhile that 95% of the playerbase can also use.
The only real solution to this is to make traderoutes as risky as mining in 0.0 but thats alot easier said then done. The key point is that if the market truely works off price signals and your in the uber 5% then a traderoute that is safe enough for the nonuber 95% to do will never be worth your time. NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.
The only way that wouldnt be true is if they took it off price signaled market prices. Which is a step backward imo but a source of liking the NPC markets.
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Kilhu Emmek
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Posted - 2004.04.07 21:18:00 -
[14]
I often wonder how many people with business and economics schooling are playing Eve. I love how complex market issues are ...
Has anyone tried exhausting the supply of a low-volume commodity to see if demand price went up significantly?
Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying.
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Jec Polux
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Posted - 2004.04.07 21:59:00 -
[15]
Whether trading is 'dead', 'sleeping', 'on hold', or even 'alive', one thing is for certain...gone are the days when I could make 25 million in just over a day...which I did once after having been relieved of said amount on a nasty courier mission scam. Robotics was a real 'gift' enterprise! But then thats why they changed it. But I did enjoy trading...and I haven't done any at all since they nerfed it. I do really miss it...not just because of the huge profits that could be made, but it was great exploring, and particularly good fun running robotics to low sec space down in Amarr and Tash Murkon. Running pirates and NPC rats that usually made a short meal of an indy. Warping to other 'points' in the system then warping back to the gate just to get to it from another direction so as to get to it before the rats nailed me. All good fun. But alas, its gone the way of the Dodo...at least in the form it took back then. I miss it! 'Desire the Right'
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:02:00 -
[16]
I make the bulk of my money via trade, not the regular over the counter trade however yet still via trade.
Trading is dead, long live trading!
Convert Stations
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:10:00 -
[17]
Quote: ...one thing is for certain...gone are the days when I could make 25 million in just over a day...
Er, I wouldn't be so sure if I were you :-)
Still, trading simply isn't what it used to be.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Artika
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Posted - 2004.04.07 23:02:00 -
[18]
yes Artika
"No matter how good she looks, some guy is sick and tired of putting up with her crap" |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.04.07 23:13:00 -
[19]
I believe trading is dead. There is a lot more that could be done with trading to make this game more interesting. I posted my idea in the idea lab, feel free to check it out here.
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Velsharoon
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Posted - 2004.04.08 00:08:00 -
[20]
I have a route at the moment, its VERY risky and it will collapse soon, but if i did it all in one day (possible in 2 indy runs) i can make 30-50m
i dont know if u realise this but when it says demand it will some times give u that demans up to 8 times before the price crashes
eg 30k mex demand at 22isk, i managed to sell 400k mex before the price went down
im hoping no one else is doin this route as im wanting to measure how long it takes the price to reflate (yes its npc demand)
However this seems to me to be very rare, i had given up trading until my CEO mentioned this run to me, else i would never have spotted it
Vels
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