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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.20 19:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
... CCP Sreegs, why not use Quantum key distribution alongside simple data encryption to secure data going from the CCP servers to the Client to basically eradicate the injected Python and packet sniffing Bots?? |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
2556
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Posted - 2012.02.20 19:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quantum... that's... magic!
Only the macro bots left... that don't exist ofc - especially not the spam bots in Jita...
/c
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.20 20:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
ideed it is chib! =)
v0v |
Vetrox Satria
Canadian Forces Corp
0
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Posted - 2012.02.20 20:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:... CCP Sreegs, why not use Quantum key distribution alongside simple data encryption to secure data going from the CCP servers to the Client to basically eradicate the injected Python and packet sniffing Bots??
CCP's flux capacitor isnt up to par for it I'm afraid |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
467
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Posted - 2012.02.20 22:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm waiting for someone to make a bot that consists of a webcam pointed at the screen, a board of solenoids over the keyboard, an X-Y mechanical plotter to move the mouse and a separate computer to run it all. I am running for the CSM https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=779668#post779668 |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
21
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Posted - 2012.02.20 22:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I'm waiting for someone to make a bot that consists of a webcam pointed at the screen, a board of solenoids over the keyboard, an X-Y mechanical plotter to move the mouse and a separate computer to run it all.
You speak of an Eve playing android. We'd just need to teach it tears. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
998
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Posted - 2012.02.20 23:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I'm waiting for someone to make a bot that consists of a webcam pointed at the screen, a board of solenoids over the keyboard, an X-Y mechanical plotter to move the mouse and a separate computer to run it all. This coupled with custom ship paint could yield hilarious results. |
Nephilius
Grey Legionaires
316
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Posted - 2012.02.20 23:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
What war? CCP would never wage a war on something that would hurt their monetary bottom line if it were won and all bots were removed. To stand before a man at an inquisition, knowing that he will rejoice when we die, knowing that he will commit us to the stake and its horrors without a moment's hesitation or remorse if we do not satisfy him, is not an experience much less cruel because our inquisitor does not whip us or rack us or shout at us. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.21 01:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
would love for you to expand on that sentence Nephilius. |
Shepherd Steelringer
24
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Posted - 2012.02.21 02:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
1. Player sends CCP real money for some PLEX.
2. Player sells PLEX to bot for ISK made from botting.
3. Bot does w/e with the left over ISK made from botting.
For every bot that is active and extending playtime with plex bought from player, CCP is making money.
For every such bot, the price of PLEX increases, making it more desirable for normal human man person to pay CCP real money for that ISK.
For every bot RMT'ing not through CCP, CCP loses potential income. So they hire some economist to figure out what would be worse - the potential income they lose, or the increased income they are getting right now from bots buying PLEX ingame to extend accounts, driving PLEX prices up and increasing PLEX demand.
And still bots are rampant. It's not "alot". It's not "allot". It's "a lot". Two words.
Congratulations. You just levelled up in real life. |
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Im Super Gay
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.02.21 02:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shepherd Steelringer wrote:1. Player sends CCP real money for some PLEX.
2. Player sells PLEX to bot for ISK made from botting.
3. Bot does w/e with the left over ISK made from botting.
For every bot that is active and extending playtime with plex bought from player, CCP is making money.
For every such bot, the price of PLEX increases, making it more desirable for normal human man person to pay CCP real money for that ISK.
For every bot RMT'ing not through CCP, CCP loses potential income. So they hire some economist to figure out what would be worse - the potential income they lose, or the increased income they are getting right now from bots buying PLEX ingame to extend accounts, driving PLEX prices up and increasing PLEX demand.
And still bots are rampant.
The conspiracy is strong in this one... |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
470
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Posted - 2012.02.21 13:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bot makes ISK used for RMT. Player buys 1 billion ISK made by botting from a RMT dealer. CCP does not get $35.
or
Player use to get ISK via purchasing 1 PLEX a month and selling in game for ISK. Player decides to get a bot. Player illegally makes ISK with bot. CCP loses $17 per month, per player who goes this route.
or
Potential new player does research on Eve Online. Player sees walls of text on bot infestation. Player looks for a different game.
Bots are bad for the player base, they are bad for CCP, and they are contributing to the current PLEX price rise. The only reason CCP has not killed them all is its a difficult problem. That said, I think there is more they can do. For example, I see virtually nothing being done in the form of deterrence. That is persuading a new user to never even start botting.
In addition, I once asked CCP Sreegs about this;
"Originally by: Vincent Athena
Why, as a company, does CCP want to eliminate the accounts of those who use bots when doing so reduces CCP's income?
I ask because in many of the posts here it is stated that CCP likes the bots because they pay for a subscription (indirectly, via PLEX), and hence their elimination would hurt CCP's bottom line."
CCP Sreegs wrote:The first question is one I haven't FULLY researched but the general consensus is that removing bots actually increases CCP's income because we have more happy customers. The idea that we would want people to bot for $15 is a false one, though I could see why some people would leap to that conclusion.
Also CCP Sreegs has said the repeat rate for botting after the first ban is just 8%. So CCP can stop the user from botting, but keep the account.
Ninja edit: Thanks goodness I remembered to select all and copy, the post got eaten. I am running for the CSM https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=779668#post779668 |
Minabunny
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.02.21 17:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
You will never stop the mass bot operations that do it for profit. Here or in any game. If there is a demand, someone will be more than happy to meet it. Selling currency for real money has been around since the 90's and so has game automation. It's not going anywhere.
Now If you want to stop the average player(s) in eve that use bots you need to look at why they bot. If you can't figure out the game mechanics that turn an average 'player' towards automation, take your blinders off. It's the eve developers that would have to institute changes to the game to curb this behavior.
I'm sure CCP already has their own detection methods for all the popular bot software. Do you really think a company does not have their own security team that purchase this software break down it's functions and devise ways of detection? Give them some credit. What do you think would happen if CCP perma banned every account that ever used some type of automation? I would lay odds that their active user account graphic would be taking a serious nose dive. Just watch the stats after a major patch and all the bots are down to get a general idea of how much botting activity goes on in Eve.
The average player 'botting' is not hurting CCP if anything it's keeping them in business. I would gather that majority of bots users are not botting to RMT. They are doing it to support multiple accounts. Which if you play this game for any length of time you will see most players have 3,4,5+ accounts to play it efficiently. A guy in my last corp had 10 accounts! This leads back to eve real time mechanics.
Eve's mechanics push it's customers into multiple accounts. This artificially inflates their customer numbers. It also lets them garner more $$ out of a single customer than any other game. This is much needed when your game is so micro niche it doesn't attract a large customer base to support itself. They also have an insanely high turn around of eve / new players to the game because of it's general game play. Everyone knows eve is 'different' and is a 'higher' learning curve. (least that's what they like to say) Doesn't take a rocket scientist to play eve.. Just a patient player that's willing to spend years to get anywhere in quite honestly some extremely boring combat. Then right when the player thinks they are at a good place and want to try something new they load up evemon and find out they can easily fill up another 365 day plan to take another year of their life. ... (ok, so I'm a little bitter)
So what does hurt CCP....
The large scale bot 'operations' that sell ISK. These operations hinder CCP's own RMT system. If people are purchasing ISK via websites or through in game traders this takes money out of CCP's pocket. These players are not purchasing time codes and turning them into plex to 'buy' their ISK properly. Thus CCP plex system is not working to it's full potential. So whom should they go after first. Joe-Bob that's simply trying to support his multiple accounts (that eve's own mechanics force him into) or (insert cheap labor cost country) that's running mass operations and selling ISK & Plex for $$ causing CCP to take a loss?
I'm not saying that normal players botting is right or wrong. I'm just pointing out that people should be more objective on this subject instead of just picking up a torch and pitchfork. Want to stop 'normal' players from botting look towards the developers of the game to address the issues on why a 'normal' player that would never use a bot turns to automation after coming to their game. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.21 19:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
as far as i can tell so long as the encryption on sent information from CCP's servers takes longer than 24 hours to crack on commercial computers then along with QKD you'd effectively put the injected bots out of business.
If itd take longer to crack the cypher than a user can stay connected due to downtime, and if the QKD stream is intercepted then its detected to be compromised and a new key can be sent then you can block out all the injected bots... and generally theyre the pro bots that professional RMT'ers use.
As far as i can tell QKD is still pretty niche so i can understand why CCP may not have looked into it. It is used for secure banking transactions and Military communications so it'd probably cost a pretty penny... as well as probably not tested over normal national/international comms infrastructure. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1022
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Posted - 2012.02.21 20:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:as far as i can tell so long as the encryption on sent information from CCP's servers takes longer than 24 hours to crack on commercial computers then along with QKD you'd effectively put the injected bots out of business.
If itd take longer to crack the cypher than a user can stay connected due to downtime, and if the QKD stream is intercepted then its detected to be compromised and a new key can be sent then you can block out all the injected bots... and generally theyre the pro bots that professional RMT'ers use.
As far as i can tell QKD is still pretty niche so i can understand why CCP may not have looked into it. It is used for secure banking transactions and Military communications so it'd probably cost a pretty penny... as well as probably not tested over normal national/international comms infrastructure.
A legitimate suggestion should be emailed directly to CCP Sreegs, I'm sure someone can give you the specific email address as my memory isn't that precise anymore (wouldn't want to steer you wrong).
I have a feeling this is probalby something they have already, or currently are, looking into.
As to the others that leap to the conclusion that CCP would be hurt by decreasing the bot population... you don't understand the full ramifications of the problem and how it affects their bottom line in a multitude of ways.
CCP would end up being miles ahead in the game, as would the player base, if it were possible to flip a switch and banish all bots from EVE. Not to mention all that good press for making history.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
1000
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Posted - 2012.02.21 20:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reported more than a dozen mission bots in the same system today. I doubt anything will come of it, but I tried. |
Shepherd Steelringer
24
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Posted - 2012.02.21 23:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
If CCP Screegs reads this, please know, it is not a false idea.
I have had the idea many times, and none of those times was it false. It was a real idea.
Also, just have a captcha phrase on every action in eve lol It's not "alot". It's not "allot". It's "a lot". Two words.
Congratulations. You just levelled up in real life. |
Nephilius
Grey Legionaires
320
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Posted - 2012.02.22 01:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:would love for you to expand on that sentence Nephilius.
Which part? To stand before a man at an inquisition, knowing that he will rejoice when we die, knowing that he will commit us to the stake and its horrors without a moment's hesitation or remorse if we do not satisfy him, is not an experience much less cruel because our inquisitor does not whip us or rack us or shout at us. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.22 02:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nephilius wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:would love for you to expand on that sentence Nephilius. Which part?
it doesnt matter... the part that i was asking has been elaborated on and explained. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
142
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Posted - 2012.02.22 02:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Bot makes ISK used for RMT. Player use to get ISK via purchasing 1 PLEX a month and selling in game for ISK. Player decides to get a bot. Player illegally makes ISK with bot. CCP loses $17 per month, per player who goes this route.
Account is paid for. How is CCP not getting its money? SOMEONE has to buy the PLEX and put it on the market, they are not spawned like blueprints are. PLEX exist only because some OTHER PLAYER spent real money to get it in to the game.
Botting will be stopped as soon as the CCP finance department allows it. Buff Hybrid Guns!!!! |
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.22 03:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
the way i see it is theres 1 rule that governs botting and 1 only:
The time spent to grind isk to buy a PLEX
if a plex takes the average player a week to grind for without using bots, then in that time that person could have made the money for that PLEX in other ways in RL 10 times over, then eventually that player will realise that grinding for isk is futile and buy GTC's. This increases the availablility of PLEX's and lowers demand initially.
If that same person instead, on average uses a bot to grind the isk for the PLEX, then theres less GTC's being bought and placed on the market. theres still the demand for them but the supply has deminished and the prices increase. when this happens it affects all players alike, some go the botting route, some go the GTC route and some who cant/wont do either end up unsubbed.
of course as prices shift up and down so does demand cause if a PLEX costs u 1/2 a Bil ur less likely to grind for it than if it were 250m. but when u increase PLEX prices u drive off those players who wish to play without buying GTC's.
those players have a choice to either use a botting program to gather isk while theyre away with their RL, or unsub and only play a few months at a time.
so to me, CCPs choices are either: Keep bots and drive off more younger casual gamers, that cant stay subbed due to either time or financial constraints, whilst in game the higher availablilty of ISK drives markets towards hyper-inflation. Remove as many bots as possible and allow the casual gamer more flexability to stay in game whilst keeping in-game markets stable and healthy.
to me the 2nd seems more beneficial to CCPs short and long term business goals, hence why i started this thread. |
YuuKnow
141
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Posted - 2012.02.22 04:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think CCP should offer rewards (free gametime, etc) to anyone that exposes a bot supplying website, or uncovers a true bot.
yk |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
143
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:I think CCP should offer rewards (free gametime, etc) to anyone that exposes a bot supplying website, or uncovers a true bot.
yk
There is no money in that for CCP, but a larger need for staff to investigate it. Buff Hybrid Guns!!!! |
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