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Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 15:58:00 -
[1]
Having been out of power for a few days, and examining our situation with a more objective look, I have a recommendation that a lot of goons are going to hate. Before I begin, let me just say something: this isn't me being emo. This isn't me being melodramatic or pessimistic or depressed. My finals are over, I'm getting happily married, starting my dream job now, and I only play a little Eve as it is. I'm just giving this advice but that's my new role: advisor. I don't make anyone do anything, I can just recommend and let them make up their own minds, and I figure that Mittani can just lock this thread if he hates it so here goes:
We should evacuate absolutely everything we can out of conquerable space, sell it for corp funds or mothball it for the future, and go live in NPC space once again.
-------------
"What the christ what are you talking about****got?" you say. Well, let me explain my rationale.
I believe that the following facts are not in dispute:
1) Capital ships are the new battleships in fleet combat 2) Without considering support fleets, Whoever has way more capital ships present at a battle than the other side is almost certainly going to win that fleet fight. 3) You need more POSs than the other side to keep Sov and thus control over station systems. 4) You can only avoid fleet combat over POSs by timing stront so long as you have more POSs than the other guy and can block the rest of the moons in a system.
Now let me advance some more facts that aren't in dispute for anybody who knows GS
well:
5) GS/RA/TCF/etc. have far fewer capitals than BoB/Slaves/Allies/etc. 6) As they are now, Titans make almost all support fleets irrelevant. 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons. 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon. 9) We certainly do not have the money to spam large deathstars in quantity. 10) BoB/etc. have plenty of money, and they have begun to large POS spam.
If you take accept points 1-10, you will soon realize that we are ******. Not "******" in the "we are all going to die and MORALE FAILURE CASCADE and BoB are INVINCIBLE", but "******" in the sense that the game is broken to our detriment. Points 1-4 make this game Not Fun. I'm not sure if CCP intentionally designed these balance changes in order to try **** out and use this war as a guinea pig for improving their game, or if they just didn't realize how ******** they made capitals in fleet combat, but in a real sense it doesn't matter.
So, I think that there are a couple of things that are going to happen.
First, I think that BoB will begin POS spamming our hubs. GoonSwarm will levy a bunch of taxes, and raise a lot of money from donations, but ultimately we either have to empty the entire Titan fund into POS spamming to keep up with BoB, or begin losing hub sov.
Second, our combined Coalition shortage of capitals means that we can really only win in non-Euro TZs, so BoB will just time all of their POSs to come out in Euro time. RA and TCF and GS will have a series of great fights... in the US/Russian TZ, and BoB will time stront, and it won't mean **** because they're not going to **** up their stront timers like the other chump alliances we've killed. And even if they did, they have more money so they can just buy more, and we can't keep 200 larges online for very long.
Continued...
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Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 15:59:00 -
[2]
Third, given the POS spam, unless we can afford more large POSs than the Alliance, we're ultimately going to lose sov basically everywhere important outside of SP. And then the FTZ will die, our member income will begin to dry up, and we will become concentrated in the remaining full-deathstar systems like KZF, RYC, etc.
Fourth, BoB/MC/whoever will park about 3 Titans and 5 motherships between these systems, and basically make them totally unliveable with constant DDs, over and over and over, plus huge swarms of fighters. They'll sit capitals just outside of POSs, and camp every last station we have while they wait for us to **** up and lose some moons to more POS spam.
Fifth, the game will go from Not Fun, to "I'm paying $15 a month so that Eve can be balanced like THIS?" and GoonSwarm will begin to lose a lot of players to other games, to boredom, to frustration, and to the general anger that people feel towards CCP for ruining their own game with ******** capital ****.
And Sixth, we will end up moving back to Syndicate anyway.
So my argument is: skip all of that bull****, and just move back to Syndicate now.
Take all of our extra towers, hand them to RA so that they can POS spam the systems they own so that they make BoB's life miserable trying to take the last X RA systems. Take all of our portable assets, and jump them to RA space and put them up for sale. Take all of our director hangar items like dread ammo, fighters, fuel, whatever, and dump it right into Nync's lap. Pull down every single last tower in our space, mothball all of them in the stations, tell the FTZ to gtfo, and leave. Let people stay who want to fly with RA, but just get out.
Eve has been fun for me when GoonFleet/GoonSwarm had goals and the willpower to achieve those goals. At the moment, we don't have willpower because we don't have realistic goals. You cannot beat somebody at chess when you start with six pawns and a king, and that's what Eve is like right now. We weren't rich before, so we didn't have the cash to make 60 carriers and 60 dreads and 2 Titans. Not even RA is that rich and they (according to BoB) lol 10/10 plexed for months and months. We don't have the money to play SPAM THE POS and we don't have the capitals to play SPAM THE CAPITAL and we don't have the titans to play SPAM THE SUPPORT so there is no reason for us to continue to punish ourselves like this.
I think that we should take a break from alliance politics and POS wars until this game is fixed again. It may be a long break, but eventually CCP will pull its head out of its ass and realize that people are refusing to play their alliance warfare simulation because it sucks. In the meantime, we can go back to griefing, to teaching newbies how to live in Syndicate, to laughing like *******s while drunk in 20-30 man gangs, and by turning S-U8 into a hive colony again. Plus it'll make Hoegaarden **** a brick when 2000 GoonSwarm people show up on his doorstep one day and that's worth the whole effort right there.
So, tl;dr: **** conquerable space, it's really boring right now, go back to Syndicate and become a gigantic terrorist state that does whatever it wants. Better that than sit here and let BoB ********** over DD/Mothership kills night after night as they slowly POS spam all of our space.
And in conclusion, **** Goons.
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Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:00:00 -
[3]
Get out.
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
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Grunt Futtoks
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:01:00 -
[4]
Goons surrender to bob ITT -
"We do not ask sheep to be wolves; we, the wolves, do not ask ourselves to be sheep. Sheep can make such rules as happen to suit them--but it's foolishly naive to expect wolves to obey." |
Rudi Storm
SGL
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:03:00 -
[5]
Goon-Tears-Online?
And you are the same folks killing barges in highsec and telling the carebears to suck it up (Jihad and all that)...
Double standards FTW? You guys are loosing e-respect even faster then I thought...
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Agmar
Game-Over Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Agmar on 10/03/2008 16:07:05 Ok, I glanced over it, and point 5 and 6 made me laugh so hard that I defecated in my pants. I was there in F-T.... and that was before M. Corp and MC flip-flopped John Kerry style.
Recruiting. |
Winters Chill
Amarr The Space BorderLine
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:05:00 -
[7]
On first page of epic goon drama thread.
o/ hey guys.
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Dafuzz
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Yorda Get out.
This.
A very enjoyable read nonetheless. Even if it is a fakepost.
I couldn't have written it better myself!
-Dfz
--
-If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.. |
Nick Curso
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:17:00 -
[9]
remidial cerca: pre titan nerf? Please do not post pictures of players in your sig - Mitnal |
Nekumi
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dafuzz
Originally by: Yorda Get out.
This.
A very enjoyable read nonetheless. Even if it is a fakepost.
I couldn't have written it better myself!
-Dfz
This probably won't be believed because of my corp ticker but that isn't a fakepost unfortunately. It was written as an alternative to the war we now find ourselves in and I'm sure in the heart of a lot of goons it echoes a lot of the emotions and feelings we all share.
I'm kinda sad Anahid decided to drag it into the public forum before it could properly be discussed but some people aren't open to differing opinions.
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Proplus
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nick Curso Edited by: Nick Curso on 10/03/2008 16:18:03 remedial cerca: pre titan nerf?
cookie for you |
thoth foc
Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Anahid Brutus I believe that the following facts are not in dispute:
1) Capital ships are the new battleships in fleet combat
To a certain extent..
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 2) Without considering support fleets, Whoever has way more capital ships present at a battle than the other side is almost certainly going to win that fleet fight.
Kinna a sweeping statement.. prolly you are generally correct, but i wouldnt agree this is 100% true..
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 3) You need more POSs than the other side to keep Sov and thus control over station systems.
obviously
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 4) You can only avoid fleet combat over POSs by timing stront so long as you have more POSs than the other guy and can block the rest of the moons in a system.
It isnt up to the defender to avoid fleet combat, it is the attackers choice.. timing helps obviously, but it is always the attackers choice..
Originally by: Anahid Brutus Now let me advance some more facts that aren't in dispute for anybody who knows GS
well: 5) GS/RA/TCF/etc. have far fewer capitals than BoB/Slaves/Allies/etc.
I rather doubt this is true..
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 6) As they are now, Titans make almost all support fleets irrelevant.
Only true in certain situations
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 7) Virtually every one of our station systems has dozens of moons.
Only matters when someone attacks you, and since you are mostly allied with 0.0, that isnt likely to be anytime soon
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 8) We do not have the money to spam small offlines on every moon.
I rather doubt that..
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 9) We certainly do not have the money to spam large deathstars in quantity.
not what one of your FC's told me
Originally by: Anahid Brutus 10) BoB/etc. have plenty of money, and they have begun to large POS spam.
mueh.. wlep?
Originally by: Anahid Brutus If you take accept points 1-10
I dont really... _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
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Gloomy Gus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:23:00 -
[13]
If goons are going to eat, first they'll need to make babies.
Originally by: JakeNoble well id just like to say kilz is an epic****got
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Pyrok3netic
vangede
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:23:00 -
[14]
So... what it basiclly boils down to is that GS and friends have stretched resources to far and cant keep up what a big suprise
see you could have made a more modest advance and actually only take what you can afford thus having a bigger fund for more caps and non-caps, the situation which GS have presented it self with is as soon as the attack folds then the most of the south will be ready for the taking by BoB
Im not a tactical genius or anything but the way i think it should have been done is not biting the hook that BoB left after the fall of RISE, yes thats right i mentioned them
if GS and friends could have kept BoB busy down there, which probably wouldnt happen, but you yourselfes could have ussed BoB's stretched logistics on them selfes and started attacking delve alot earlier forcing BoB to fight on 2 maybe even 3 sides of the universe, then you wouldnt require the same numbers as you are trying to pile into 1 system right now
But all this just my 2 bits and would prob not work since BoB planned it all at the BBQ of 1917
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Dafuzz
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nekumi This probably won't be believed because of my corp ticker but that isn't a fakepost unfortunately. It was written as an alternative to the war we now find ourselves in and I'm sure in the heart of a lot of goons it echoes a lot of the emotions and feelings we all share.
I'm kinda sad Anahid decided to drag it into the public forum before it could properly be discussed but some people aren't open to differing opinions.
Actually, I do believe you.
I feel your pain, I really do.
Some of you good folks have been led down the garden path towards an unclear end. And that is sad.
--
-If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.. |
Wodanonline
The Last Resort.
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:25:00 -
[16]
and you need CAOD to tell your fellow goons
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maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:33:00 -
[17]
Edited by: maralt on 10/03/2008 16:35:00
The truth is that we had to suffer through reading all the GOON proclamations about how great they are at 0.0 warfare and how stunningly brilliant they are at diplomacy throughout eve and that they were veritable gods of logistics.
The time has come to prove these claims to one and all but instead what do we see, a forum full of pre-threadnaught propaganda about cynojammers and titans. Instead of confident predictions we see GOONS bleating jokingly about the fact they "do not exist" or other oldies and goldies from years ago.
Show that you are the logistical, diplomatic and 0.0 warfare geniuses that you have claimed in the past to be or go back down south and be quiet.
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xttz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 10/03/2008 16:35:00 The truth is that we had to suffer through reading all the GOON proclamations about how great they are at 0.0 warfare and how stunningly brilliant they are at diplomacy throughout eve and that they were veritable gods of logistics.
The time has come to prove these claims to one and all but instead what do we see, a forum full of pre-threadnaught propaganda about cynojammers and titans. Instead of confident predictions we see GOONS bleating jokingly about the fact they "do not exist" or other oldies and goldies from years ago.
Show that you are the logistical, diplomatic and 0.0 warfare geniuses that you have claimed in the past to be or go back down south and be quiet.
Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again
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Dafuzz
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: xttz Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again
Calling it now, DBP spy alt.
Thanks, I needed that laugh. I look forward to ya trying to stop us
Bring it.
--
-If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.. |
Celot
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:46:00 -
[20]
It takes a big man to know when he's been beaten.
The only question is whether bob will accept our unconditional surrender and let us live in peace in NPC 0.0
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Dafuzz
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Celot It takes a big man to know when he's been beaten.
The only question is whether bob will accept our unconditional surrender and let us live in peace in NPC 0.0
Have your people contact my people.
--
-If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.. |
Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 16:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Celot It takes a big man to know when he's been beaten.
The only question is whether bob will accept our unconditional surrender and let us live in peace in NPC 0.0
"Remedial is fat" joke spotted.
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
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rValdez5987
Amarr Killed In Action The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.10 17:15:00 -
[23]
Edited by: rValdez5987 on 10/03/2008 17:15:49
Quote: Bob will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 again
Somehow I doubt that you will be able to stop them.
Your nap-fest coalition pushed them back, but cant remove them, and is now turning on each other...
Its only a matter of time. My views and opinions are my own, not my corp or alliances.
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Tumbles
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.10 17:46:00 -
[24]
When do we get to eat the children? ......
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Local Her0
Minmatar La Mancha Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.10 17:51:00 -
[25]
sounds like an excellent plan imho
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Blank Protection
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.10 17:55:00 -
[26]
Nice post tbh and much truth in it. POS Warfare is indead bloody bloody boring,cost billion`s of ISK and it makes ppl to leave sooner or later to go back to smaller corps and do the old fashion PvP again.
But if it comes to the money ( ISK ) i never ever have understand where BoB gets his endless money from. Goonswarm has far over 5000 members and is the biggest Alliance in game. That makes it hard to believe they running out of cash. But beside the cash thing BoB will never be defeated never ever. Tbh i pulled back from this crazy Anti BoB POS Warfare madness and i dont regret it a single moment. Finally Eve has become a game for me again and not a 2th job.
Goodluck fighting BoB, but it is pointless and a waste of cash.
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Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.10 17:56:00 -
[27]
I think it is a good idea.
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milinkoee
Bastage Incorporated THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.10 17:58:00 -
[28]
What, no baby eating?
Bastage, Inc. Worst Pirates Ever!!! |
Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.03.10 18:10:00 -
[29]
Lacks baby eating. ----------------
Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
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The Hooch
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.10 18:46:00 -
[30]
My goodness, a Goon with a brain and skills to express real thoughts... whats next a BoB - Goons NAP?
Yikes!
Hooch
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
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