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The Drone Bay Podcast: Episode 2 - Now with more seismic events!

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Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Crovan on 11/03/2008 13:08:30 The Drone Bay #2 (Click to Download/Play) The Drone Bay returns for Episode 2! Yes, itÆs the third episode, and I definitely had to re-record the intro 2 or 3 times to stop saying ôEpisode Three,ö but meh. This week brings you more of the discussion, guides, and listener mail that youÆve been asking for. As always, please contact us with any suggestions or feedback. Bring on the Drones: First off is the weekly recap, where the guys discuss the end of the tourney (congrats Ev0ke!), the stalling out of the Delve offensive (for now), and the Council of Stellar Management. Also, the guys got a bit more media attention this week, which is good, because our egos need inflating. Check out CrovanÆs CSM blog entry which got a bit of press from Massively and Ten Ton Hammer this week. CKÆs economic segment notes also made MassivelyÆs front page, so we are all feeling smugly superior for a bit. In DONÆT PANIC, thanks to popular demand, the crew discusses corporations and how to look for employment in EVE. One site we are plugging this week is EVE-Careers, a very slick looking database and classifieds site for both employers and prospective employees. In the listener feedback section, the guys tackle a few questions about starting out in PvP, as well as explaining just what on earth skill hardwirings are for. The discussion this week centers on suicide ganking, particularly the recent all out war on high sec miners on behalf of Goons and their alts. Tune in for their sage and wise suggestions, all in a continuing theme of telling CCP how to run their game. Please, please keep giving us feedback. We canÆt get to everything every week, but we do appreciate the input and questions. Also, please drop us a Skype voicemail or e-mail us an mp3 if you want to hear your own voice on the show (provided you sound decent and donÆt talk nonsense). Contact Info: GAX Online Group: The Drone Bay E-Mail: dronebay\|at\|gmail.com (comments/questions for everyone) crovan\|at\|eve-mail.net crazykinux\|at\|gmail.com alsedrech\|at\|gmail.com Skype: Dronebay Blogs: Bitter Old Noob (Crovan) CrazyKinuxÆs Musing The Littlest Drone (Alsedrech) The Drone Bay Podcast
BAteh The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:09:00 - [2] First? Awesome as always, keep it up. Cheers.
Zathi Shaitan Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:10:00 - [3] \o/ Indeed, amazing as always. Nicely said! ---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/
Treenara Mazouk Phoenix Propulsion Labs	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:14:00 - [4] 3rd? Man you folks are quick on the trigger!! CrazyKinux's Musing
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:18:00 - [5] 4th and Drone Bay is ftw
Myros Glimmbrand Ganja Co	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:24:00 - [6] Listening to it now, sounds great. Please send the EVE-TV folks a nice email on how to setup audio ... nice to be able to listen without having to crank up the volume level just to hear it only to blow out speakers when someone laughs ;p M
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Myros Glimmbrand Listening to it now, sounds great. Please send the EVE-TV folks a nice email on how to setup audio ... nice to be able to listen without having to crank up the volume level just to hear it only to blow out speakers when someone laughs ;p M Surprisingly it's a helluva lot easier to balance audio levels with USB headsets than with $500 studio mics. The Drone Bay Podcast
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.03.11 15:18:00 - [8] I liked the discussion you guys had on suicide ganking. However I don't agree with a lot of what was said. I think that because it's statistically quite unlikely that you as an individual will be attacked in this manner. so it is unlikely that you're going to be run out of the game. Although if you are a new player 1 attack can be enough to destroy all of your ISK but fortunately any decent player corp should be happy to provide you with the loan you need to get back on your feet provided that your death was not because of some dumb act like jumping into HED-. Thus I am for changing nothing. Oh and the hint here is get out of the NPC corp as fast as you can I did this on my fifth day and have never looked back
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.11 15:21:00 - [9] You know, technically it would be an infinitely higher percentage of seismic events. 1/0 and all. Listening now... ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.1
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.11 16:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarminic You know, technically it would be an infinitely higher percentage of seismic events. 1/0 and all. Listening now... Is it bad that I almost re-did the intro because I thought the same thing? The Drone Bay Podcast

Myros Glimmbrand Ganja Co	Posted - 2008.03.11 16:57:00 - [11] Really enjoyed the broadcast, nice work guys. Would like see a weekly segment on the political aspects of EVE (aimed at the new player or returning old players). Just talking about some of the going-ons, wars, background of alliances, political changes etc that make EVE so interesting. It can be hard for a new player to get a handle on it or even know its going on. A little weekly primer on it would let new players get a peek into that world. And also help returning players (such as myself;p) get some catch-up on the latest. Great job, keep it up. Myros
Butch Rodreguiz Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.11 17:15:00 - [12] Great podcast, again! You guys simply rock. Just my two cents on the suicide ganking. I came to Eve after years and years of playing carebear MMOs. In fact, I used to be afraid of ganking in other MMOs and would often quit the PvP server the minute the odds were stacked against me. When I first came to Eve, I was repeatedly sacked by Pirates in low sec and I got that "this isn't fair" feeling again and almost decided to quit. But thanks to the constant harping from the community about the "no holds barred" nature of Eve, I finally accepted what happened to me and basically decided not to take being ganked or killed personally. I was in high sec mining the other day when the call came out via local that the swarm had arrived. Everybody was warned and I was able to continue mining in my mighty Bantam and nobody bothered me. I kept a vigilant look at the screen and in local chat. And, while nothing happened to me, the exhilaration that came from needing to be on my toes was unlike anything I've experienced in any other MMO. It has definitely made me more paranoid while playing, but I would rather say that I've become more alert than anything else. It makes me, in the end, a more informed and smart player. Anyway, in closing, I don't want Eve-Online to make any consessions for high sec. Eve is a PvP game and people should not come in with the illusion that high sec is 100% safe. I probably wouldn't be interested in playing this game if high sec ever became 100% safe. The massive appeal to Eve is that no one is ever totally safe. But, I do think that CONCORD, as a security entity, would be stupid to allow the same "criminals" to enter it's space repeatedly for what would be viewed as "senseless" crimes. I definitely like the idea of taking measures that would not allow the same ganker to continuously re-enter high sec with no penalty until after they've committed their act. PS: 1 1/2 hours isn't too long. You all are a pleasure to listen to. Can't wait for the next podcast. PSS: And thank you for not saying things like "meh" while on the air. :)
manasi Caldari Valhalla Navy Technical Institute	Posted - 2008.03.11 17:38:00 - [13] Edited by: manasi on 11/03/2008 17:39:14 I agree with the poster above. Great PODCAST!!!!!. As far as suicide ganking two things: 1 Bigger sec hit for offenses 2. Remove the money refund from Concord (even with no insurance you get 1/2 the value of the ship)..just my 2 cents.
Anell Minmatar Evil Avatar Ltd.	Posted - 2008.03.11 18:21:00 - [14] Just finished reading this weeks podcast, really great job absolutely the best one yet. I really like your idea of interviewing some corp CEOs and I'm looking forward to hearing from them next week. Thanks again.
Treenara Mazouk Phoenix Propulsion Labs	Posted - 2008.03.11 18:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Anell Just finished reading this weeks podcast, really great job absolutely the best one yet. I really like your idea of interviewing some corp CEOs and I'm looking forward to hearing from them next week. Thanks again. Podcast Mind Readers who can "read" audio files. Sacry!!!!! CrazyKinux's Musing
Anell Minmatar Evil Avatar Ltd.	Posted - 2008.03.11 20:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Treenara Mazouk Originally by: Anell Just finished reading this weeks podcast, really great job absolutely the best one yet. I really like your idea of interviewing some corp CEOs and I'm looking forward to hearing from them next week. Thanks again. Podcast Mind Readers who can "read" audio files. Sacry!!!!! You should see what I can do with a spatula, some dental floss, and a 9v battery.
Midir Fulton	Posted - 2008.03.11 21:53:00 - [17] Great Podcast, and I just have to comment on the whole Jihadswarm. I don't see why this is a issue CCP has to be involved in. I'm curious as why you guys think it is? How is what they are doing is more of a grief tactic then other things people do in the game? Given the way the game is designed it does not appear CCP intended for someone to ever be truely safe in space. Suicide Ganking is already so much in favor of the person getting ganked, all they have to do is survive one or two volleys. In the case of Jihadswarm, the miner can simply warp to a station. Its public knowledge goonswarm is killing miners, if a bunch of goonswarm warp into a belt then warp out. It appears that people consider this a grief tactic, and thats why CCP needs to get involved. I don't see why people are calling this a grief tactic. They are not even targeting newer players, they are targeting people in exhumers. What's the difference between them and someone who goes around killing people for killmails or a great pvp corp war decing a new corp that has no chance of defending themselves. What possible arguement can be made for CCP involvement in this. If CCP gets involved because it's griefing then wouldn't they have to get involved in all things that can be possibly considered griefing?
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:02:00 - [18] Nice show, guys. I know less than you think I do.
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Midir Fulton Great Podcast, and I just have to comment on the whole Jihadswarm. I don't see why this is a issue CCP has to be involved in. I'm curious as why you guys think it is? How is what they are doing is more of a grief tactic then other things people do in the game? Given the way the game is designed it does not appear CCP intended for someone to ever be truely safe in space. Suicide Ganking is already so much in favor of the person getting ganked, all they have to do is survive one or two volleys. In the case of Jihadswarm, the miner can simply warp to a station. Its public knowledge goonswarm is killing miners, if a bunch of goonswarm warp into a belt then warp out. It appears that people consider this a grief tactic, and thats why CCP needs to get involved. I don't see why people are calling this a grief tactic. They are not even targeting newer players, they are targeting people in exhumers. What's the difference between them and someone who goes around killing people for killmails or a great pvp corp war decing a new corp that has no chance of defending themselves. What possible arguement can be made for CCP involvement in this. If CCP gets involved because it's griefing then wouldn't they have to get involved in all things that can be possibly considered griefing? You're absolutely right simply because a grief tactic involves persecuting an individual but what we are seeing is just piracy. I also think that those miners who are lucky enough to not be hit they will enjoy improved sales. Therefore it can be said that this is an act of kindness to at least those who survive.
Anell Minmatar Evil Avatar Ltd.	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Midir Fulton Great Podcast, and I just have to comment on the whole Jihadswarm. I don't see why this is a issue CCP has to be involved in. I'm curious as why you guys think it is? How is what they are doing is more of a grief tactic then other things people do in the game? Given the way the game is designed it does not appear CCP intended for someone to ever be truely safe in space. Suicide Ganking is already so much in favor of the person getting ganked, all they have to do is survive one or two volleys. In the case of Jihadswarm, the miner can simply warp to a station. Its public knowledge goonswarm is killing miners, if a bunch of goonswarm warp into a belt then warp out. It appears that people consider this a grief tactic, and thats why CCP needs to get involved. I don't see why people are calling this a grief tactic. They are not even targeting newer players, they are targeting people in exhumers. What's the difference between them and someone who goes around killing people for killmails or a great pvp corp war decing a new corp that has no chance of defending themselves. What possible arguement can be made for CCP involvement in this. If CCP gets involved because it's griefing then wouldn't they have to get involved in all things that can be possibly considered griefing? I don't even fly an exhumer but this is a tactic or grief or whatever that needs to be shut down. The reason has to do with the allocation of risk. As I understand it insurance will cover most if not all of the cost of a tech 1 fitted battleship but will cover almost nothing of an exhumer. The problem here is that a person can then blow up exhumers costing them a great deal of money while having very little financial risk to themselves. EVE does allow for players to do as they wish but an important aspect is equal risk to the players. If Exhumers were covered fully by insurance this wouldn't matter. But from my understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) thats not the case. So the easy solution would be to extend insurance to cover Exhumer cost. That would bring both the goons and the miners onto equal standing.

Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.12 00:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Midir Fulton Great Podcast, and I just have to comment on the whole Jihadswarm. I don't see why this is a issue CCP has to be involved in. I'm curious as why you guys think it is? How is what they are doing is more of a grief tactic then other things people do in the game? Given the way the game is designed it does not appear CCP intended for someone to ever be truely safe in space. Suicide Ganking is already so much in favor of the person getting ganked, all they have to do is survive one or two volleys. In the case of Jihadswarm, the miner can simply warp to a station. Its public knowledge goonswarm is killing miners, if a bunch of goonswarm warp into a belt then warp out. It appears that people consider this a grief tactic, and thats why CCP needs to get involved. I don't see why people are calling this a grief tactic. They are not even targeting newer players, they are targeting people in exhumers. What's the difference between them and someone who goes around killing people for killmails or a great pvp corp war decing a new corp that has no chance of defending themselves. What possible arguement can be made for CCP involvement in this. If CCP gets involved because it's griefing then wouldn't they have to get involved in all things that can be possibly considered griefing? Honestly, this is the opinion that I had as well before I took a closer look at some of what is going on. Like I said in the show, it's not the ganking itself that bothers me, now, it's the repeatability. You simply don't take much of a hit for doing it. One example I looked at a little while ago showed a Thorax pilot killing two Mackinaws. From one kill to the next, his security status dropped from 2.0 to 1.7. Given that those drops are a percentage of your current status, it is going to take at least 15 more ganks before this pilot is no longer allowed in 1.0, and 30 or more before he is an outlaw. Now, I understand that EVE is all about a ruthless environment, but I really can't see any argument that this is working as intended. Also, I don't think that their targets are what makes this an exercise in griefing. It's more the fact that, unless I miss my guess entirely, this is designed to really throw a wrench into the EVE economy. A lot of EVE's low end minerals and ice products come from the type of mining that is being targetted, here. For example, Tritanium has already shot back above 3 isk a unit again. If anyone believes that Goons lack the malice to try to screw up the whole of the economy, then I think a re-evaluation of their history is in order. Also, while at most marginally profitable, the loot from these kills is usually just enough to keep buying more suicide ships, so unless CCP does step in and do something, this will simply continue and escalate, with other groups with a bit of capital to waste (or at least tie up) begin to participate as well. Like I said, interesting comments, but I honestly believe that leaving this alone would do a great deal more harm than good to the economy and the game. Price increases aside, these kills mean a drop in the supply of raw material to the market, which is anathema to a growing industrial economy. Also, in terms of risk v reward, it totally breaks empire mining as an activity, and threatens a great deal of economic and game balance. I honestly think it's one of those things that CCP was willing to let lie while it was an economic activity, but this goes beyond that, while holding onto just enough to make a tenuous economic claim. If it goes on without intervention, be prepared for a very slippery slope. Interesting and well thought out comment, though. Thanks for listening and participating! C The Drone Bay Podcast
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2008.03.12 00:08:00 - [22] nice podcast again guys. Regarding Jihadswarm: I highly endorse this product and/or service. anything that stops people hurting asteroids is good ---------------------- FTEK \| Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing
Crovan	Posted - 2008.03.13 05:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Omber Zombie nice podcast again guys. Regarding Jihadswarm: I highly endorse this product and/or service. anything that stops people hurting asteroids is good Thanks, Mr. President, both for the compliment and the excuse for the post DT bump. The Drone Bay Podcast
Alsedrech	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:26:00 - [24] Personally, I welcome our new asteroid loving overlords.
Reiker Struvian	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:36:00 - [25] Drone bay takes a look at some things WarpDrive Active doesn't. Keep it that way, here's someone who listens to both.
Crovan	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Reiker Struvian Drone bay takes a look at some things WarpDrive Active doesn't. Keep it that way, here's someone who listens to both. Yay! I listen to both...and WDA Industry. Then again, I have a lot of dead airtime at work, given that I can't really communicate with 99% of the people I encounter Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. The Drone Bay Podcast
Everir Entar	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Crovan Yay! I listen to both...and WDA Industry. Then again, I have a lot of dead airtime at work, given that I can't really communicate with 99% of the people I encounter And I thought you spoke Japanese. Great podcast and keep up the good work!
Crovan	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Everir Entar Originally by: Crovan Yay! I listen to both...and WDA Industry. Then again, I have a lot of dead airtime at work, given that I can't really communicate with 99% of the people I encounter And I thought you spoke Japanese. Great podcast and keep up the good work! I speak enough Japanese to order at a restaurant, but that's about it, and reading the kanji is waaaay beyond me. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. The Drone Bay Podcast
Murashu	Posted - 2008.03.14 03:53:00 - [29] Good podcast guys. I really prefer listening to these guys over the other podbast hosted by VW. Keep up the good work.
Treenara Mazouk Phoenix Propulsion Labs	Posted - 2008.03.18 19:40:00 - [30] Thanks for all the feedback guys! Episode #3 should be out shortly! CrazyKinux's Musing

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