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Pwnee
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Posted - 2008.03.13 06:14:00 -
[1]
Call it a torp bug or a display bug, I don't really care which, but at the moment, torpedo range is signifigantly shorter than displayed flight time X velocity.
My torp raven shows a flight x velocity range of 24.6km, however a hit is only registered inside 18-19km.
From my quick futzing with EFT, it seems like the Caldari BS skill bonus for the raven is not being applied to torps, although it does explicity state torpedoes in the description.
A fix would be appreciated, either fix the range, or fix the display, but this is currently just unacceptable. I can understand nerfing torps from where they were, but taking them to sub-20s? Might as well just get rid of the damn things, shield tanking+MWD required to get into range lasts about 15 seconds.
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:41:00 -
[2]
The reason for this is that the missile speed is not constant. The missile accelerates from the second it launches until it reaches top speed. This is why you see a "decrease" in range
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Vrenth
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:55:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: CCP Casqade
The reason for this is that the missile speed is not constant. The missile accelerates from the second it launches until it reaches top speed. This is why you see a "decrease" in range
Err, am I to understand that CCP doesnt understand the missile mechanics? If my range on my torp calculates to be 20km, it will hit a 19km target no problem. If that person is moving, that range is going to change, because the torp has to travel additional distance. that 19km is the distance to your ship, not the distance the missile has to travel. The "acceleration" of the torp takes a fraction of a second to get to full speed, and from my tests, has nothing to do with it's effective range, but is a client side visual effect.
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Let's make CLONE VATS useful! |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.03.13 10:12:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vrenth
Err, am I to understand that CCP doesnt understand the missile mechanics? If my range on my torp calculates to be 20km, it will hit a 19km target no problem. If that person is moving, that range is going to change, because the torp has to travel additional distance. that 19km is the distance to your ship, not the distance the missile has to travel. The "acceleration" of the torp takes a fraction of a second to get to full speed, and from my tests, has nothing to do with it's effective range, but is a client side visual effect.
Partially wrong.
Both effect apply.
If the target is moving away from you, the torp can fall short even if the display say 20 km because the missile (it is valid for any missile) must travel more than 20 km to reacht he target.
What CCP Casqade is saying is that for the first 1-2 second a missile don't reach maximum speed but is accelerating. While it aplly to all the missiles, the effect is more noticeable on short range missiles, especially torpedos as they still have the same acceleration they had when they were long range weapons.
From test that people more knowlegeable than me in missiles have done it eat almost 5 km from the maximum range of a torp Raven. try searching in this section of the forum, you will find lengthy thread on that.
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Randgris
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Posted - 2008.03.13 15:06:00 -
[5]
your calculation assumes that the target is sitting still.
in reality, the target will be moving, which will change the effective range of missiles.
e.g. your missile is traveling at 1800 m/s. the target is traveling 500 m/s and orbiting. lets assume because of the orbiting the ship is moving slightly away from the launched torpedo. the torpedo is catching up with a speed of something roughly 1800-500 = 1300 m/s (simplified for example).
so the real effective range of missiles is more like "catching up speed" * flight time
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Yes I know how my face looks like :D |
Alora Venoda
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Posted - 2008.03.13 16:51:00 -
[6]
maybe they should add a "effective range" attribute to the missiles then? it would take account of acceleration, but not movement...
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Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Galliana Foresta
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Posted - 2008.03.13 18:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Randgris
stuff
Dude... your face.
HIRING|KB|PRESS
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
HeavyGunz 0331
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Posted - 2008.03.13 19:09:00 -
[8]
Personally I think this is a bunch of bullcrap. Why the heck would ccp not incorporate this into the torp (or missile) stats?
I have a flight time of 7.5 and with rigs a velocity of a little over 8000m/s. So a moving npc target will maybe add a couple hundred meters.
But since we have this secret acceleration which no one knows (to my knowledge) what it is exactly I pretty much wasted my ikies on velocity rigs since they are secretly nerfed.
So:
1. Why the heck do you not have this in the missile stats?
2. What the heck is the exact acceleration?
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Siltan
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Posted - 2008.03.13 20:06:00 -
[9]
under the "need for speed" policy, this makes no sense, it requires significantly more procsesing power to calculate and run accelration the it does just starting it out at full speed, it also confuses people.
These torps are also falling significantly shorter then people are expecting, ive seen this myself, i need to be around 3-4km closer (10 - 15%) then I should be to hit a very slow moving BS.
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Wesley Baird
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Posted - 2008.03.13 20:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
This means that the missile will take, let us say 0.5 seconds to get up to maximum speed.
Lets remove all speculation, please provide us with the exact acceleration table for all missiles, so we can correctly determine our maximum ranges...that shouldn't be too hard :)
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
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HeavyGunz 0331
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:00:00 -
[11]
Edited by: HeavyGunz 0331 on 13/03/2008 21:07:19
Originally by: Wesley Baird
Originally by: CCP Casqade
This means that the missile will take, let us say 0.5 seconds to get up to maximum speed.
Lets remove all speculation, please provide us with the exact acceleration table for all missiles, so we can correctly determine our maximum ranges...that shouldn't be too hard :)
You'd be surprised. I asked about this a few months ago and no one knew.
Some GM's barely read a full petition let alone know these intricate variables. I'm not just being rude this is fact as he replied to my petition with... The torps were changed with the trin update. This was after I showed him the math of my torp hitting a moving target.
I then bug reported it and he said that my calcuations were correct (meaning the BH don't even know about the acceleration). He said it would be fixed in 1.1.
Now I find out that both the GM and the BH are both wrong and that there is a freakin acceleration according to Casqade.
Even if there is a misterious accleration that no one knows about I still beleive that there is a bug in the torps. I can sometimes hit 55k away but then (as i'm getting closer) my next few vollies will completely miss.
Then again we will never know if this is a bug until someone tells us the exact acceleration
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:05:00 -
[12]
There are not any calculation errors making it possible to hit targets further away than your theoretical maximum range, that I am aware of.
However there is known issue where the explosion effects are shown even if the missile does not hit (no damage done).
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HeavyGunz 0331
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
There are not any calculation errors making it possible to hit targets further away than your theoretical maximum range, that I am aware of.
However there is known issue where the explosion effects are shown even if the missile does not hit (no damage done).
The issue is that you can't calculate your "actual" max range without the acceleration factor. Becasue of the acceleration factor the theoretical range means absoloute crap since in my circumstance I lose about 10k
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:15:00 -
[14]
Missiles have always had the acceleration thing, and moving targets could always make missiles have to travel further then it first appears.
Wasnt a big deal when Torps would silly long range. Now? Seems like we should up the acceleration on torps, get it closer to the max advertised range. say, within 5%.
as for not displaying this stat anywhere, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much knowledge and information in EVE thats simply NOT written down ANYWHERE. Wasnt there supposed to be a wiki coming to help with this?
Originally by: Meridius Dex
I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
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HeavyGunz 0331
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: HeavyGunz 0331 on 13/03/2008 21:43:18
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
Missiles have always had the acceleration thing, and moving targets could always make missiles have to travel further then it first appears.
Wasnt a big deal when Torps would silly long range. Now? Seems like we should up the acceleration on torps, get it closer to the max advertised range. say, within 5%.
as for not displaying this stat anywhere, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much knowledge and information in EVE thats simply NOT written down ANYWHERE. Wasnt there supposed to be a wiki coming to help with this?
I agree but like i said earlier no npc ship velocity would hinder my set-up.
Missile Velocity= 8000+
Flight Time=7.5
Lets say target it moving at 120m/s at 50000m
50000m + 120m/s(x) = (x)8000m/s
x = 6.3452s
so 8000m/s x 6.3452s = 50761.4m
But bc of acceleration I can't even hit that (or around 51k). So that acceleration knocks off over 17.5% of my range. And it is compounded further than most setups because with an acceleration the faster the torp the shorter the range. Obviously now I'm going to have to replace some with the rocket fuel caches to take advantage of my months worth of skills.
Range and damage should always be able to be calculated. Even if this is posted on Wiki then what good is the actual eve-online site.
I know I am repeating myself here, but (to my knowledge) no one knows what the actual acceleration is be it GM or BH
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Buyerr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.14 16:45:00 -
[16]
... the mechanic is stupid...
just tell me ONE thing that can hold a human or bigger which can move anywhere near the speed of a missile .*sigh
I declare war on stupidity |
HeavyGunz 0331
Bound For Glory
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Posted - 2008.03.19 05:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: HeavyGunz 0331
Edited by: HeavyGunz 0331 on 13/03/2008 19:48:23
Personally I think this is a bunch of bullcrap. Why the heck would ccp not incorporate this into the torp (or missile) stats?
I have a flight time of 7.5 and with rigs a velocity of a little over 8000m/s. So a moving npc target will maybe add a couple hundred meters.
But since we have this secret acceleration which no one knows (to my knowledge) what it is exactly I pretty much wasted my ikies on velocity rigs since they are secretly nerfed.
So:
1. Why the heck do you not have this in the missile stats?
2. What the heck is the exact acceleration?
Edit:
I swear I will bump this every day until I get a freaking answer
Bump... sorry was sooo ****ed took off a couple days of bumping
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