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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
96
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jeremy Ironforge wrote:^ Cap boosters... Armor Cane has only one neut which is not enough to break through.
with a PG1 you can get 2 neuts
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
815
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 14:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:Was under the impression some Gallente hulls were missing a slot to compensate for larger drone bays and ability to field more drones than their counterparts.
Was a valid argument back when gallente could use all the drones you had in your cruiser hull drone bay. Not any more.
Not any more for Brutix neither that still can't fit properly 250's without the lolest fit ever with an unused bonus only noobs doing it wrong all the way will try to use it.
On the same record of lol fits and silly stuff try to fit with 250's a decent snipe Deimos and you'll get some smiles in your face when you'll figure out how silly Gallente hulls are. You can add some hybrid caldari hulls too but hey it's not like if Missiles weren't fine right? |
OfBalance
Deep Core Mining Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 17:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:You can add some hybrid caldari hulls too but hey it's not like if heavy Missiles weren't fine right?
FYP |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
137
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 20:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: Was a valid argument back when gallente could use all the drones you had in your cruiser hull drone bay. Not any more.
Not any more for Brutix neither that still can't fit properly 250's without the lolest fit ever with an unused bonus only noobs doing it wrong all the way will try to use it.
On the same record of lol fits and silly stuff try to fit with 250's a decent snipe Deimos and you'll get some smiles in your face when you'll figure out how silly Gallente hulls are. You can add some hybrid caldari hulls too but hey it's not like if Missiles weren't fine right?
This. TBQFH.
/ Wistfully remembers blasterax's with 5 heavy drones *swoons* |
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.02.23 02:59:00 -
[65] - Quote
Buzzmong wrote:Tanya Powers wrote: Was a valid argument back when gallente could use all the drones you had in your cruiser hull drone bay. Not any more.
Not any more for Brutix neither that still can't fit properly 250's without the lolest fit ever with an unused bonus only noobs doing it wrong all the way will try to use it.
On the same record of lol fits and silly stuff try to fit with 250's a decent snipe Deimos and you'll get some smiles in your face when you'll figure out how silly Gallente hulls are. You can add some hybrid caldari hulls too but hey it's not like if Missiles weren't fine right?
This. TBQFH. / Wistfully remembers blasterax's with 5 heavy drones *swoons*
All hacs suck TBQFH and chief among the ones that don't is the ishtar for pve reasons. |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
43
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Posted - 2012.02.23 04:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
Buzzmong wrote:Tanya Powers wrote: Was a valid argument back when gallente could use all the drones you had in your cruiser hull drone bay. Not any more.
Not any more for Brutix neither that still can't fit properly 250's without the lolest fit ever with an unused bonus only noobs doing it wrong all the way will try to use it.
On the same record of lol fits and silly stuff try to fit with 250's a decent snipe Deimos and you'll get some smiles in your face when you'll figure out how silly Gallente hulls are. You can add some hybrid caldari hulls too but hey it's not like if Missiles weren't fine right?
This. TBQFH. / Wistfully remembers blasterax's with 5 heavy drones *swoons*
Those were fun times. That and cruise/torp Kestrels. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
821
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 12:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
You can still have fun on sisi with Guardian Vexor and 10 drones out
I use it as remote rep with logistic drones, if you try to use it like you would expect to use a navy vexor but 10 drones out, you'll be very disappointed.
Back on topic: I would like CCP to change Gallente BC's battlecruisers Tiers.
Because Myrmidon performs +/- like every other race Tier one BC and because Brutix needs almost double pg, mid slots and lows to play the same game than drakes and canes witch is eve online.
-I want a 250mm II Brutix cargo with T2 ammo short/long range -not cap out because I'm shooting -not cap out because my crappy afterburner is On -not cap out because a frig orbiting at 500 that I can't hit with my rails just neut me with 2 cycles of his small NOS... -not have to choose to put guns or reps on my ship to profit from an unused bonus, lolilol fits are lol -have enough CPU to fit it decently and cap stable either with rails or blasters when I have all 5's and without implants -have that crappy rep bonus changed to +10% speed per level or 5% fall off or something else BUT USEFUL -Same slot layout than Cane, less one mid plus one low
Pimp the PG of Deimos enough so I can fit other thing than 200's on it without having a ridiculous fit and even more ridiculous dps.
Thx |
Wacktopia
Noir.
189
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 12:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:Typically no, unless it's a drone bonused hull....the myrmidon could have another high slot and not be OP, though.
100 b/width. Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67574 Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
821
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 12:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
And I too confirm that Minmatar ships have fitting problems.
I never know what to fit in that dam cane to use all the PG and CPU available, I feel shame for my self being that bad.
Please CCP nerf the dam hurricane and spew on it 8-8-8 slots so I have trouble fitting my ship.
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Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
59
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 01:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Where to start? So many ridiculous things have been said so this will prob take way too much text to deal with them and I will not be multi quoting all that nonsense, just going over the more gross atrocities of logic.
To say "a torp phoon is easy to fit, so nerf minmatar" is ridiculous. The torp phoon is probably the most skill intensive ship a dedicated Minmatar pilot could train for. Maybe the most skill intensive ship that any dedicated racial pilot could train for imho. Even a rokh doesn't need neut skills.
Secondly, Minmatar T2 resist profiles are good, but anyone who compares the paper stats against the 2 most common damage types (thermal and kinetic) will easily see that minmatar T2 resists are only optimized for dealing with laser damage (racial design for the minmatar v amarr thing). If you are someone who runs around with emp loaded all the time, then you are only 2 years behind the bell curve. Maybe there is hope for you, but I doubt it.
Very few minmatar ships can be viably fit with artillery cannons even with the "generous" fittings that they have.
I would take a close range geddon over an AC phoon any day of the week. In ships that size, you aren't skirmishing (where minmatar has the advantage) you are brawling and the geddon's dps and tank are both better than the AC phoon. The TRADEOFF is that the geddon is tough to fit. Seems like a fair tradeoff: if you want to fly a geddon and train to fly a geddon, it will be better than an AC phoon.
AC's have great damage projection. LOL. Compared to what? Blasters loaded with antimatter? Well no s**! What happens to this damage projection when you are being kept at range and being shot with Scorch? Scorch is prob the best ammo in the game. Many rail fits outdamage AC fits with Barrage...and to even try to fit arties means going with a paper thin tank.
BTW, you guys should try null. It projects damage very well and it's hard to beat with barrage considering the small range difference and significant dps advantage of blasters if you can close those few km needed (almost impossible to beat null on frig hulls by using barrage).
Not having T2 rockets but flying a Drake with T2 heavies doesn't mean you have "s*** support skills". It just means you don't fly rocket boats. Tell me how you can fly a cane with T2 AC's without training small T2 AC's...
As for "Angel ships", they are not minmatar or a race (as I said the problems aren't racially defined). There are problems there, but to say ALL angel ships - just proves how little you have undocked since the hybrid rebalancing, null buff, and dram nerf. DD is clearly the most OP frig in the game. If you consider it an "angel ship", then please be more precise as to what you are talking about. If you want to suggest ways to fix the cynabal, then post a link to that thread so I can go there and discuss that with you. There are a number of problems with many faction ships and I will follow a link to the appropriate thread for discussing them.
For the majority of you, start here:
tl;dr Yes there are individual ships that need work. Even some ship classes as a whole need work and fixes are currently in the works. To say nerf minmatar is beyond ignorant and just proves how little you play the game or how little you understand what you are doing when you undock. The game has great balance right now and it would be a shame to watch it destroyed by another epic whine thread. After all, do you really want to see a race almost unusable for 2 years again (read: Gallente)? Sig tanking is the new black |
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M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 21:12:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jeremy Ironforge wrote:Ahh just tried a Meta3 guns Armor Cane VS a T2 fitted Armor Harby. Guess who won?
Now that's ridiculous cuz Harby wasn't drained or jammed... Just outanked and outdpsed at all ranges.
I call shenanigans. With scorch a harby will easily out DPS an ARMOR cane at the edge of the harby's optimal. Also I know for a fact because I have flown both that a harby has more tank than a cane, so either that harby got neuted out because he was a lasor ship without a cap booster (terrible idea) or he decided to sit point blank on a ship that he could have out DPS'd at range. Projectiles, lasors, heavy/HAMs and blasters are quite well balanced right now. |
Dirty Teacher
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 01:12:00 -
[72] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Jeremy Ironforge wrote:Ahh just tried a Meta3 guns Armor Cane VS a T2 fitted Armor Harby. Guess who won?
Now that's ridiculous cuz Harby wasn't drained or jammed... Just outanked and outdpsed at all ranges. I call shenanigans. With scorch a harby will easily out DPS an ARMOR cane at the edge of the harby's optimal. Also I know for a fact because I have flown both that a harby has more tank than a cane, so either that harby got neuted out because he was a lasor ship without a cap booster (terrible idea) or he decided to sit point blank on a ship that he could have out DPS'd at range. Projectiles, lasors, heavy/HAMs and blasters are quite well balanced right now.
because it's totally easy for the harby to dictate range vs a hurricane right? |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
897
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 01:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
Dirty Teacher wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Jeremy Ironforge wrote:Ahh just tried a Meta3 guns Armor Cane VS a T2 fitted Armor Harby. Guess who won?
Now that's ridiculous cuz Harby wasn't drained or jammed... Just outanked and outdpsed at all ranges. I call shenanigans. With scorch a harby will easily out DPS an ARMOR cane at the edge of the harby's optimal. Also I know for a fact because I have flown both that a harby has more tank than a cane, so either that harby got neuted out because he was a lasor ship without a cap booster (terrible idea) or he decided to sit point blank on a ship that he could have out DPS'd at range. Projectiles, lasors, heavy/HAMs and blasters are quite well balanced right now. because it's totally easy for the harby to dictate range vs a hurricane right?
Did you read what he responded to? He's right to call shenanigans. Its just not possible.
-Liang
Ed: At least, not as presented it isn't possible. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
243
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 02:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ahrieman wrote:Where to start? So many ridiculous things have been said so this will prob take way too much text to deal with them and I will not be multi quoting all that nonsense, just going over the more gross atrocities of logic.
To say "a torp phoon is easy to fit, so nerf minmatar" is ridiculous. The torp phoon is probably the most skill intensive ship a dedicated Minmatar pilot could train for. Maybe the most skill intensive ship that any dedicated racial pilot could train for imho. Even a rokh doesn't need neut skills.
Secondly, Minmatar T2 resist profiles are good, but anyone who compares the paper stats against the 2 most common damage types (thermal and kinetic) will easily see that minmatar T2 resists are only optimized for dealing with laser damage (racial design for the minmatar v amarr thing). If you are someone who runs around with emp loaded all the time, then you are only 2 years behind the bell curve. Maybe there is hope for you, but I doubt it.
Very few minmatar ships can be viably fit with artillery cannons even with the "generous" fittings that they have.
I would take a close range geddon over an AC phoon any day of the week. In ships that size, you aren't skirmishing (where minmatar has the advantage) you are brawling and the geddon's dps and tank are both better than the AC phoon. The TRADEOFF is that the geddon is tough to fit. Seems like a fair tradeoff: if you want to fly a geddon and train to fly a geddon, it will be better than an AC phoon.
AC's have great damage projection. LOL. Compared to what? Blasters loaded with antimatter? Well no s**! What happens to this damage projection when you are being kept at range and being shot with Scorch? Scorch is prob the best ammo in the game. Many rail fits outdamage AC fits with Barrage...and to even try to fit arties means going with a paper thin tank.
BTW, you guys should try null. It projects damage very well and it's hard to beat with barrage considering the small range difference and significant dps advantage of blasters if you can close those few km needed (almost impossible to beat null on frig hulls by using barrage).
Not having T2 rockets but flying a Drake with T2 heavies doesn't mean you have "s*** support skills". It just means you don't fly rocket boats. Tell me how you can fly a cane with T2 AC's without training small T2 AC's...
As for "Angel ships", they are not minmatar or a race (as I said the problems aren't racially defined). There are problems there, but to say ALL angel ships - just proves how little you have undocked since the hybrid rebalancing, null buff, and dram nerf. DD is clearly the most OP frig in the game. If you consider it an "angel ship", then please be more precise as to what you are talking about. If you want to suggest ways to fix the cynabal, then post a link to that thread so I can go there and discuss that with you. There are a number of problems with many faction ships and I will follow a link to the appropriate thread for discussing them.
For the majority of you, start here:
tl;dr Yes there are individual ships that need work. Even some ship classes as a whole need work and fixes are currently in the works. To say nerf minmatar is beyond ignorant and just proves how little you play the game or how little you understand what you are doing when you undock. The game has great balance right now and it would be a shame to watch it destroyed by another epic whine thread. After all, do you really want to see a race almost unusable for 2 years again (read: Gallente)?
This.
OhmyfreakingGod THIS!!
Thank you, Sir: My faith in humanity--such as it ever is--has been restored, for now.
I are kyute kitten! I are in ur mishun! Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz! (CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
69
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 04:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Thank you, Sir: My faith in humanity--such as it ever is --has been restored, for now.
Every once in a while, logic and reason needs to be brought into these discussions. Haven't seen those whiners around this thread much lately Sig tanking is the new black |
ElCholo
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
79
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 05:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
This is for you idiots who still think that Minmatar are the end all be all of the pixel space ship world. |
Izziee
University of Izziee
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 13:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jeremy Ironforge wrote:1) Minnie vessels have the 2nd highest PG numbers, and often those numbers aren't that much lower than that of amarr.
2) Same goes for CPU... Horay! We stupid "technologically not advanced" nation sport awesome computers!
3) Meanwhile Autocannons require the least ammount of PG/CPU among turret close range systems.
4) Minnie vessels almost always have more slots! than their same tier counterparts from other races. And since you have ftting resources left...
wtf where's the balance here? Why does the game about ships anwsers the most crucial question - "which ship should I train for?" - with either "Drake" or "Cane" for years now!
PS I know there's Arty that requies hell lot of PG but there are also RCU's and some gallente ships with "-1 slot" to balance things out.
Okay, firstly, what does training for a drake have to do with minny ships? You're right with the fact which ship should I train for being the drake. I'm not saying it's OP, it's versatile. I don't care for it much, but I don't care how much others care for it either, each to their own, but it is one of the best ships to train for. Great at PvP, super cheap, can do L4's...well, almost any PvE except mining, tanks great...well,the list would go on.
So, yeah, that's caldari.
Anyway, you basically put all the great points about Minny into one post and call it OP. Each race has their own advantages too you know?
Amarr - Works in optimal, has huge optimal. Instant changing of ammo, has a lot of drone space on more ships than the other races (bar gal ofc!) Looks super sexy (Abaddon? I'd do that) and has a light show to light up all of space.
Caldari - Drake. Nothing else needs to be said really. Easily the best in choosing damage types, huge range.
Gal - Drones, drones and more drones. Huge range on rails, massive damage on blasters.
All have their good and bad sides, sure, blasters you need to get into range, and gallente are slow, but drones can be a nightmare to face. Amarr can struggle with certain damage types, Caldari have the drake (Bad side too you know! everyone uses it) and minny work in their fall off.
Ofc, it's a very simple post and there's a lot more to it than that, but each race has it's niche and place in space. It's not like you can't fly anything.
If you were forced down one path only able to choose one race's ship, then there would be problems, but you're not. You're capable of using any so there isn't a problem really. It's all about preference. If gallente ships wasn't so ugly I'd be flying in nothing but them, but alas, I can't handle how ugly they are. Min ships are strong but I'd personally put that down to them being shield tanked so all the lows can be fitted with gank, where as amarr/gal are usually armour meaning less gank. Can leave caldari out though since missiles are a whole different system from turrets, and rails generally are weak, but I think that's more to do with being a secondary weapon for Gal with drones primary.
Yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about, I just like hearing myself talk. It's still want i think though
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OfBalance
Caldari State
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Izziee wrote: Yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about, I just like hearing myself talk. It's still want i think though
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DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
969
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Dirty Teacher wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Jeremy Ironforge wrote:Ahh just tried a Meta3 guns Armor Cane VS a T2 fitted Armor Harby. Guess who won?
Now that's ridiculous cuz Harby wasn't drained or jammed... Just outanked and outdpsed at all ranges. I call shenanigans. With scorch a harby will easily out DPS an ARMOR cane at the edge of the harby's optimal. Also I know for a fact because I have flown both that a harby has more tank than a cane, so either that harby got neuted out because he was a lasor ship without a cap booster (terrible idea) or he decided to sit point blank on a ship that he could have out DPS'd at range. Projectiles, lasors, heavy/HAMs and blasters are quite well balanced right now. because it's totally easy for the harby to dictate range vs a hurricane right? Did you read what he responded to? He's right to call shenanigans. Its just not possible. -Liang Ed: At least, not as presented it isn't possible. EM damage multiF/Scorch vs. Armour Cane = A happy Cane Explosive damage Fusion vs Armour Harby = An unhappy Harby
Receiving Fusion's damage types reduces my Harby's ehp by 7%, to 68.3k ehp. Receiving Multi F's damage types increase my Cane's ehp by 23%, to 84.8k ehp. Effectively, the Cane has 24% more ehp.
The flexibility of selectable damage types is a boon to Minmatar ships. |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
72
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
I agree that the selectable damage types for minnie is an advantage to the race, but that's one of the racial strengths that helps to offset many of their weaknesses. Sig tanking is the new black |
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krad nevaeh
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 21:30:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ahrieman wrote:I agree that the selectable damage types for minnie is an advantage to the race, but that's one of the racial strengths that helps to offset many of their weaknesses.
Weaknesses such as? Their smaller sig radius, faster ships, easiest fitting of all races? Or was it perhaps how great autos and especially the alpha on arties?
So what weakness is is again?
I fly minnie and i think that they need a nerf. Or atleast others deserve a buff.
Caldari with the incoming drake tank nerf, really has crap pvp ships. Raven is used for mostly pve, Tengu is expensive and not used in large fleets.
Rook and falcon.. ecm, only need a couple per fleet. Hacs.. Cerb is so so.. just a slightly better caracal. Eagle is just junk.. pure and utter junk.
Rokh is bested by a megathron, Ferox gets autos half the time.
Caldari lore wise are supposed to be superior in some ways, are the worst of the races.
Though Harpy and Hawk are now pretty darn nice. Missiles need a rework as well.
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M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 17:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
If the Brutix was buffed, adding a low slot (6 lows rather than its current 5) It would be able to fit a decent armor tank and do respectable DPS which is the blaster's advantage, it would become a more popular choice, giving the Gallente a decent PvP Blaster Battlecruiser (since that's really the reason people don't fly the Brutix, its got the low slots of a cruiser, yes I'm looking at your rupture.)
Now, if the Hurricane lost a high slot, giving it 7 highs with 6 turrets and 1 utility, the reign of the 2x Neut & 6x 425mm Autocannon II's would end and other ships with one neut *cough* Harbinger *cough* might become more popular.
I'm open to comments.
DaRiKavus wrote: I am aware that the races are balanced I was making the point that each race is able to do something that the other cannot The OP is basically asking for the usual Minny nerf and I was attempting to be sarcastic.
Sarcasm can be hard to read through the computer screen, I misunderstood =) |
krad nevaeh
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 18:50:00 -
[83] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Since the OP is mostly talking about Battlecruisers and how the only two that are commonly used is the Cane/Drake: If the Brutix was buffed, adding a low slot (6 lows rather than its current 5) It would be able to fit a decent armor tank and do respectable DPS which is the blaster's advantage, it would become a more popular choice, giving the Gallente a decent PvP Blaster Battlecruiser (since that's really the reason people don't fly the Brutix, its got the low slots of a cruiser, yes I'm looking at your rupture.) Now, if the Hurricane lost a high slot, giving it 7 highs with 6 turrets and 1 utility, the reign of the 2x Neut & 6x 425mm Autocannon II's would end and other ships with one neut *cough* Harbinger *cough* might become more popular. I'm open to comments. DaRiKavus wrote: I am aware that the races are balanced I was making the point that each race is able to do something that the other cannot The OP is basically asking for the usual Minny nerf and I was attempting to be sarcastic.
Sarcasm can be hard to read through the computer screen, I misunderstood =)
The brutix could use a little more PG as well. At best with no implants or ancil router and with a 1600 plate, you can get electrons. If you dual rep it, then Ions.. If you want Neutrons, your going to need implant and anci routers. All fits with a MWD.
Sure you can shield tank it, but its a crap shield tank at best.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1033
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 19:49:00 -
[84] - Quote
I like how everyone calls she shield buffer brutix "crap" yet is willing to accept the same tank out of a shield tanked Hurricane.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 00:58:00 -
[85] - Quote
At all L5 a shield brutix with 1LSE and 1 Invuln can get 50k EHP, on par with a hurricane with far more DPS at the cost of range 850+ DPS... I still think that the best fit for the brutix ATM is shield tanked since with a 1600mm it loses so much of its DPS.
Shield fit, the brutix is short 20 PG (L5 engineering) to go implantless/without ancillary rig.
How much herp could a herp derp herp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
99
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 08:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
krad nevaeh wrote:
Weaknesses such as? Their smaller sig radius, faster ships, easiest fitting of all races? Or was it perhaps how great autos and especially the alpha on arties?
So what weakness is is again?
Crap tank compared to the Amarr in BS's, alpha being of reduced value over certain fleet sizes.
krad nevaeh wrote: Caldari with the incoming drake tank nerf, really has crap pvp ships. Raven is used for mostly pve, Tengu is expensive and not used in large fleets.
Rook and falcon.. ecm, only need a couple per fleet. Hacs.. Cerb is so so.. just a slightly better caracal. Eagle is just junk.. pure and utter junk.
Rokh is bested by a megathron, Ferox gets autos half the time.
Rokh fleets would mangle a Mega fleet with a decent FC, even though the Rokh is slow as dirt, its faster than a dual plated mega. Since once you start engaging at 100km align time counts a LOT more than over all speed.
I've also seen Rokh fleets, recently, I've never seen more than three Megas in one place outside of playing station games.
Scorps are used pretty heavily to mess with logi, particularly when you don't have Titans on the field ECM bursting like mad.
Oh and we had 313 Tengu's on the field last week......you don't see fleets of them in low sec, but they are far from uncommon out in null, I've seen 4-5 different alliances fielding them. |
Sinigr Shadowsong
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 16:44:00 -
[87] - Quote
Winmatar are definitely the PvPfaction. It's ironic that only winmatar pilots can defend them while most other players agree that somethink is wrong here. What makes them oh so good?
1. You can't be wrong by focusing on winmatar ships. They have great T1 frigates, destroyer, cruisers, BC, BS, great T2 frigs and cruisers of all sorts. If they are not best in some categories than they are second to best (T3, cars) 2. Projectiles are the best weapon ingame. You can argue that some weapons are better in some causes, but let's face it: noone can deny that if ship has no bonuses to weapon type or those bonuses are weak every sane pilot gonna fit AC there. Noone will ever suggest putting Lasers or Hybrids on winmatar ship. Also artillery ship have better alfa than 2 same class Rail/Hybrid/Missile ships (Sometimes 3x more). 3. Best resist profiles of all T2 ships. Independence from enemy resists, just choose any damage type you want. 4. Extremelly generous fitting stats on ships. While some winmatar ships require a little extra work for fitting all the candies winmatar pilot can imagine, most other ships require much more work to fit just basic needed systems. 5. Cap-independant non-sucking dps. 6. Higher speed and smaller signature on most/all ships with no trade-offs most of the time. 7. Best pirate ships use winmatar weapons, winmatar skills and winmatar design patterns. Clearly it's all about Gallente!
On a side note: 1. Best industrials. Fastest of all with good cargo. 2. Excellent PvE ships: Vargur and co.
The only think that makes this tolerable is that any player can fly any ship. Too bad winmatar ships are so ugly, sometimes I doubt if they was made by same art team that made all other ships (To be fair, some are nice: Rifter, Firetail, Maelstrom, Loki, Tornado). More and more this game becomes homogenised in winmatar ships and/or winmatar weapons.
Fun part: winmatar players can only beat same long-time dead horses (even undead at some point): 1. Typhoon. The least used winmatar BS noone cares about, that stil great in almost most aspects and not so hard to fit. 2. Blasters do more damage and lasers have better range. Well, you can't expect your weapon have best damage, range, tracking, fitting reqs, famage types all the same time. Still everyone and their dog use AC. 3. Flavours and so. Winmatar flavour is overall awesomness multiplied by low time requirements. 4. Tengu!!!1111oneone!! Because God forbids non-winmatar ship to be better. |
Sinigr Shadowsong
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
0
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Posted - 2012.03.17 16:51:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:Winmatar are definitely the PvPfaction. It's ironic that only winmatar pilots can defend them while most other players agree that somethink is wrong here. What makes them oh so good?
1. You can't be wrong by focusing on winmatar ships. They have great T1 frigates, destroyer, cruisers, BC, BS, great T2 frigs and cruisers of all sorts. If they are not best in some categories than they are second to best (T3, cars) 2. Projectiles are the best weapon ingame. You can argue that some weapons are better in some causes, but let's face it: noone can deny that if ship has no bonuses to weapon type or those bonuses are weak every sane pilot gonna fit AC there. Noone will ever suggest putting Lasers or Hybrids on winmatar ship. Also artillery ship have better alfa than 2 same class Rail/Hybrid/Missile ships (Sometimes 3x more). 3. Best resist profiles of all T2 ships. Independence from enemy resists, just choose any damage type you want. 4. Extremelly generous fitting stats on ships. While some winmatar ships require a little extra work for fitting all the candies winmatar pilot can imagine, most other ships require much more work to fit just basic needed systems. 5. Cap-independant non-sucking dps. 6. Higher speed and smaller signature on most/all ships with no trade-offs most of the time. 7. Best pirate ships use winmatar weapons, winmatar skills and winmatar design patterns. Clearly it's all about Gallente!
On a side note: 1. Best industrials. Fastest of all with good cargo. 2. Excellent PvE ships: Vargur and co.
The only think that makes this tolerable is that any player can fly any ship. Too bad winmatar ships are so ugly, sometimes I doubt if they was made by same art team that made all other ships (To be fair, some are nice: Rifter, Firetail, Maelstrom, Loki, Tornado). More and more this game becomes homogenised in winmatar ships and/or winmatar weapons.
Fun part: winmatar players can only beat same long-time dead horses (even undead at some point): 1. Typhoon. The least used winmatar BS noone cares about, that still great in most aspects and not so hard to fit. 2. Blasters do more damage and lasers have better range. Well, you can't expect your weapon have best damage, range, tracking, fitting reqs, famage types all the same time. Still everyone and their dog use AC. 3. Flavours and so. Winmatar flavour is overall awesomness multiplied by low time requirements. 4. Tengu!!!1111oneone!! Because God forbids non-winmatar ship to be better.
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Vilfredo Pareto
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.03.17 17:24:00 -
[89] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Once you go black, you never go back.
You should have got jungle fever like I did. The Minmatar are clearly descended from Touaeg rebels or maybe Somalian pirates, who are genetically similar to the AK-47. Perhaps even the Congolese, who have bullet-spewing machete-wielding unbalanced combat in their heritage.
Kind of funny, but the Brutor doesn't look anything remotely near Tuareg or Somalian. Even my white grandmother looks more Somalian than a Brutor. Kongolese? Yes, I can buy that one.
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Elena Grimaldi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 10:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I like how everyone calls she shield buffer brutix "crap" yet is willing to accept the same tank out of a shield tanked Hurricane.
-Liang
with less speed missing 2 medium neuts missing the ability to shot without using cap so you can actually use that neuts if caught or if you gank or vs tacklers and missing the range of guns
So while in a Brutix you chase targets that you wanna gank, applying 0 dps until they are in scram/web range, consuming cap in the process, with the Cane you dont need to chase them since you will aplly dps anyway, if you wanna chase em you have speed and cap to do it without stop shoting, and if you re tackled in the process or you reach the enemy, you have still 2 neuts to tear him down cause you don't have cap issue |
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