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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.17 23:20:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 17/03/2008 23:20:08
 Quote:
I agree with you in two points:
1.Eve needs to have ships explode for the economy to work.
and
2.non-consent PVP is essential to Eve
But I think my idea addresses that.
To point 1, I think youÆll have more action in a semi-safe consensual PVP environment than in the current system (in current system a large part of the population wont ever enter lowsec). For point 2, I agree again, but thatÆs what 0.0 is for. I simply would address the security sections as so:
1-.9 û Completely safe non-PVP zone.
.8-.5 û Semi-Safe (current system of concord protection)
.4-.1 û Challenge Response PVP (still allows for ganking the afk and lazy) Consensual PVP for everyone else.
0.0 Pure non-consensual full PVP
The problem now is that the environment is too black and white, we need a PVP grey area.
CONCORD does not stop PVP, it provides consequences for PVP. Your idea would STOP PVP.
Lowsec already is a "PVP Grey area". No warp bubbles, sentry guns.
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Sandor Krejaa
InnerVisions
Xenotech Celestial Coalition
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Posted - 2008.03.18 00:25:00 -
[242]
Here is an idea for pirates who want to drum up business....take a break...seriously...let people alone for a while in low-sec and let them move out in numbers and get comfy, then 2 or 3 months later, tear into them...I bet you get far juicier targets that way.
If you keep the prey on the run constantly they will become over cautious. You need to be proactive and allow the prey to slow down every now and then and think they are 'safe'. Not only does this breed the complacency needed for piracy to thrive, but it also increases the # of available prey (the noobs will in essence, 'breed'). I think pirates are not thinking 'feral'. You need to let the 'herd' recover its numbers, quit 'over hunting' and let noob numbers rise so that you may have very fertile hunting grounds later.
As it stands, every noob knows low-sec = "I will get podded over and over and over" so they naturally avoid it...just like a herd of gazelle will not come to the waterhole while the lions are there.
So some specific recommendations...
back off low-sec gate camps..everyone knows about those, you become way to predictable that way and people can watch the pod kill count on the star map to see if you have been busy in a system and will simply go around you.
back off pod killing..your name in bright yellow on the overview spooks the herd along with your crappy sec status. If you refrain from podding, then you dont look so much like a pirate, allowing you to get so much closer to your intended prey.
Note I do not say "Dont do those things", just be very selective of when you do such deeds and give the prey a chance to buy their way out. If the prey knows you will simply kill them out of hand, they will avoid you at all costs and no reward will make the risk worth it to them.
Of course I describe being a 'smart' predator, you want to cultivate the herd, get it big and fat, then cull it later on. TO use Stargate Atlantis parley, become a 'Wraith' :-)
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Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
DO JAJA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 00:35:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The fun part is that high sec has not been buffed in the last 2 years.
Then I thought about it and realized that you're right... but nitpicking.
Simply saying the truth. It is easier to make isk everywhere.
Quote:
Quote:
Cite exactly what you feel was the buff.
You're right, there really hasn't been specific buffs to hisec isk making, but it has been improved none the less. It is far easier to make isk now than it was 2 years ago.
- introduction of rigs = improved mission running ships
- HP boost = easier to tank missions at lower SP
- new player SP boost = new players into lvl3s 4s much quicker which in turn results in quicker to competition levels for market prices on items sold
Simple counters points:
- rigs: better damage/resists for pirates, better gate guns tanking, ecc.
- HP boost: better gateguns tanking, better survivability if target fight back
- new players SP: better tacking alts, new players wanting to pirate have an almost ready character.
Quote:
- LP store proliferated faction gear, CNRs bloody everywhere for example = easier to run missions
- LP store gear the same stats as some faction gear = nerf to some faction ratting but reduction in "pimping cost"
- LP store value reduction to about 1/5 of former value.
Quote:
- change to research agents = effortless isk in datacores
Most of the better agents are in low sec.
Quote:
- drone regions crashing high ends + rev new ship demand raising low ends did cause some mining weirdness for awhile
Drone region - 0.0.
Quote:
- invention lowering the cost of living for everyone
It apply everywhere. You are ganking in a T2 ship if you have the skills today.
Quote:
- "Salvage? added at the expense of other loot" is not being totally forthcoming considering the "other loot" was generally no where near as profitable, so salvage can't be discounted.
Not true. You want some thousand units of contaminated lorenz fluid? Some salvage is profitable, not all and it has slowed looting even more than before (so reduced isk/hour)
Quote:
Yes, hisec vs lowsec the potential profits in lowsec is still better. However, I believe it hasn't scaled well over time.
What was a 50% increase in 2003 is now just 14% more even though the difference has remained the same. Yes, I pulled those number out of my backside, but it's just to give an example of what I suspect has happened over time to the potential profit difference.
Granted, but it was effect of other changes, not buff to high sec. It is essentially players learning better systems to gain isk and changes in game focusing. In 2003 ratting in a cruiser low sec rats were a rewarding target, today people rat in a BS and only 0.0 rats are a rewarding target even if the bounties are higher than in 2003.
Quote:
- It has gotten easier over time to make isk in general
- It has gotten cheaper to put together a mission ship thanks to invention (which is also the direct cause of pirating for loot taking a nerf) and LP stores
- It has gotten easier to put together an afk perma tank mission ship thanks to rigs and HP boost
Suspect:
- The ratio of hisec/lowsec reward hasn't scaled well over time
And pretty darn sure:
- Isk/hour in hisec is better than lowsec all around when Piratous-Interuptous is figured in.
All that adds up to any allure that lowsec might have had being much reduced. So, you're right Venkul. Hisec hasn't been buffed specifically. But it has been buffed enough with everything else to overtake what little allure lowsec had at one time. That's my theory anyway.
The game has been buffed, not high sec, the reaction to that buffing have moved most players in 2 polarized location high sec and 0.0.
I am sure that low sec rewards haven't scaled in proportion to high sec or 0.0 but using that as an excuse to nerf high sec as someone want is wrong.
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Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
DO JAJA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 00:36:00 -
[244]
Character limit so I continue here.
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Cailais
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.03.18 01:01:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Cailais on 18/03/2008 01:04:02
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
The trouble with Eve PVP, and this applies to all security levels, is the impossible gank situations, session changes, blobs, paper thin industrial ships, capital overuse, hot drops, etc. Too much of Eve PVP relies on the concept known as "perfect information" and not enough reliance on "imperfect information" (anyone interested can look up these terms as they apply to game theory.)
That is what needs fixing. The fact that Eve has non-consent PVP is what makes the game what it is, and it needs to remain. What needs to change is how it is manifest.
Spot on, and Ive highlighted the key points Adunh's made.
In order to attract players into PVP, and Low Sec in general means a need for a shift away from 'reward based' game play in PVE terms.
If a player enters a game area with the express intention of conducting 'PVE' activities and then is attacked and forced into PVP battle (and looses) he simply wont return - regardless of the level of reward offered.
EVE desperately needs alternatives to the 'gate' system for travel: thus providing the first element of 'imperfect information' ("that guys GOT to come through this gate - theres no other option!").
Local needs to be changed (yeah I know this isnt massively popular) so that there is an element of doubt about who is in a system. Thats the second element of imperfect information.
EVE needs true "Merchant" vessels that can fight back - combat miners, what ever you want to call them - give these ships a bit more teeth and a whole lot more defense.
Finally Low Sec needs to be thematicaly different - perhaps factionally contested perhaps not - but at least something more than a poor mans .0. (see my sig link if you want to know more)
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
DO JAJA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 01:14:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Sandor Krejaa
Here is an idea for pirates who want to drum up business....take a break...seriously...let people alone for a while in low-sec and let them move out in numbers and get comfy, then 2 or 3 months later, tear into them...I bet you get far juicier targets that way.
Would be a solution but it wouldn't work simply because every day a lot of players decide to "go pirate" as it is cool and easy. Then they came to the forum to complain as it easy enough but it pay little and require a lot of boring work (gatecamping is more boring than mining in my book).
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Bullvynne
Celestial Pillagers
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.18 01:29:00 -
[247]
I feel no sympathy for them, none whatsoever.
They dont want a fight, they want to murder any helpless target. When we do go hunting them, all those pirates do is /dock and wait. When they're the prey they hide like little girls, so excuse me while I laugh at you wanting CCP to get prey for you.
You want some fights? Take you and your chicken $hit gang down a couple of jumps and enter a real PvP zone, see what happens to your concept of PvP when you have no station to dock to, and you are the prey.
What dont like that? Then here's your tear about no carebears for you to gank in low-sec.
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Praxis1452
The Hoodie Mafia
Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 01:35:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Bullvynne
I feel no sympathy for them, none whatsoever.
They dont want a fight, they want to murder any helpless target. When we do go hunting them, all those pirates do is /dock and wait. When they're the prey they hide like little girls, so excuse me while I laugh at you wanting CCP to get prey for you.
You want some fights? Take you and your chicken $hit gang down a couple of jumps and enter a real PvP zone, see what happens to your concept of PvP when you have no station to dock to, and you are the prey.
What dont like that? Then here's your tear about no carebears for you to gank in low-sec.
Piracy is about profit. Is that hard to understand? And no, they probably won't take on a gang twice their size. Pirates also recognize bait pretty easily and will stack the odds in their favor before they engage. So? Deal with it.
--------------------------------------------
ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it" |
Nyabinghi
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.18 01:45:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Can't agree here. Eve needs to have ships explode for the economy to work, non-consent PVP is essential to Eve. If things are not consumed, then things are not purchased and built and mined and so forth. What Eve needs is ways to encourage smaller gang activity, solo activity and more people willing to put them selves in riskier environments for longer periods of time.
Perhaps the problem (and hopefully a place to find the solution) with low sec can be found in what is lacking in the larger EVE universe, namely that everything revolves around a military industrial complex. So what if, for a change, we give players something positive to build, to work towards. Let's assume that inhabited planets in Empire space are getting what they need, perhaps "low sec" is still part of the open frontier where goods and services need to be established with stability. So let's give players an opportunity to build that stability in conjunction with the various Corps and Factions. In essence "Factions Wars" without the "Wars".
Now of course low sec still being part of the new frontier and only partially developed there are occasions for pirates, bandits, what have you, to exploit the fact that a solid regular police presence hasn't been established yet. The police forces are there, just not in the same capacity as in high sec. So those who assist in the development of low sec can opt to enlist extra protection, their own policing force to make up for what CONCORD cannot provide in full. For example you have a building contract with a Faction in a .4 system. The Faction offers police protection to the extent it can, to make up for what's missing the Faction gives permits for the contractors to enlist private security.
This to me seems a far superior way of dealing with low sec and in turn also gives players positive goals to work towards as oppose to just feeding the war machine.
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MrRookie
Dark and Light inc.
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 02:30:00 -
[250]
Problem is that most serious and organised corps will probably be living in 0.0 anyway which leaves low sec most interesting for solo players and mission runners.
Low sec should be more simular to 0.0 in both rewards and resources, encuraging not only mission *****s to be there but also miners and ratters etc and organised corps/alliances that don't want to conquer and defend space in 0.0
Bether roids and some BS sapwns (Make high sec less wimpy to compensate).
I never really understud cpps definition of sec levels anyway. 1.0 -> 0.5 = wimp frigs, 0.4 -> 0.1 = wimp cruisers, 0.0 = whabam! Multiple BS spawns and other hardcore PVE locations. It should be a bether balance here. Give people a reason to fly arround the belts in low sec. There are complexes conatining BS sized rats in low sec anyway.
Also if missionrunners where bether protected from gankers it would deffo be more crowded space
Sig removed. Please email us at mods@ccpgames.com if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
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Annaphera
The Green Machine
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Posted - 2008.03.18 04:49:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Vanessa Vale
Originally by: Annaphera
(missing the point here) Originally by: Vanessa Vale
Which do you think that will give better isks? Hungry animals will follow the scent of food.
Mission running, obviously, or 0.0 if they join an alliance. Either way, they are working for their isk, not just whining that there are no fat targets for them to gank in low sec and that CCP should force more people into low sec to become targets. What I'm objecting to is the idea that I'm somehow inferior to them and that their playstyle is somehow more valid. Let's see...
No. No pirate will go do missions for 10-20/h when they can gank a hauler or a missioning ship in highsec and get hundreds of M per hour. There's a certain type of people who are alergic to isk grind, and suicide ganking has no grind, just patiently waiting at a gate for tasty targets. Grinding = 2nd job. No thanks.
Problem - sec status of most pirates is low enough to make this impossible; if they work it up, the very act of camping will drop it again. All told, they can do far less damage trying to high sec gate camp than they can in low sec, where CONCORD isn't showing up to pop them. If this were an option, why aren't all of them already in high sec, rather than whining here?
Originally by: Vanessa Vale
Originally by: Annaphera
'Gankbear' pirates make huge amounts of isk (possibly a billion or more for a few minutes' pewpew if they catch a level 4 mission runner), with the only risk being the off chance that some real PvP'er might be called in by the target and happen to be close enough to do some good before the one-sided fight is over. Victims: Fellow players. Risk nil, reward incredibly high.
Carebears fault. The pirate got hungry, went to empire to kill people there. And you don't need a billion ship to do missions, they are quite doable with T2 gear.
Oh, so it's our fault there are gate camps, because we won't go to low sec and make sacrifices of ourselves? Get a clue.
Originally by: Vanessa Vale
Originally by: Annaphera
of bull cookies. Who's the real carebear, here? And why should I be so stupid as to volunteer to be on the losing side of a one-sided fight? CCP might as well add a 100% tax to all money made by mission runners and give the proceeds to the pirates - it would have the same effect and be just as fair as forcing mission runners and other high sec dwellers into low sec.
Carebears are the real carebears. Pirates in lowsec risk getting ganked by other pirates. It is when you move pirates to empire that the risk for the pirates is lessened; and pirates are moved to empire because there's nothing to eat in lowsec since the carebears no longer go there.
If the mountain doesn't come to Muhammad, Muhammad will come to the mountain.
'Pirates' of the type we're discussing never attack each other...they are after the helpless targets, not actual PvP. To fix your statement, GANKBEARS risk getting popped by actual, PvP-loving pirates. However, as most of that breed seem to prefer 0.0 space, it's not a big risk, really. I've seen pirates in high sec - seen massive numbers of Concord and empire guard ships clustered around a gate, 'summoned' by campers' attacks on other ships. Those ships make high sec campers a lot more choosy about their targets, as they can't pop you at their leisure...meaning most of the mission ships are safe, and so are most industrials with a few stabs on them. Not the same situation as low sec at all, it would seem.
So...no, threats that all the 'pirates' from low sec will come to high won't motivate anyone to move to low and become a sacrifice. And I'm pretty sure CCP will NEVER force us to. The problem in low sec isn't raising the reward, it's reducing the risk...by giving others the tools to give the 'pirates' the fair fight they don't want.
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isdisco3
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 15:17:00 -
[252]
Edited by: isdisco3 on 18/03/2008 15:20:12
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Hmm. I checked out the ore ISK/m3 calculator on the EVE wiki, and it's sad. At current Oursulaert mineral prices, ONLY Hedbergite has more ISK/m3 than hisec ores...and even that is only 4 greater than Kernite. On the other hand, even low-end 0.0 ores (Dark Ochre, Gneiss) fetch more than double the ISK/m3
Lowsec ores need to be closer to 0.0 ores.
A classic example indicating that the difference between highsec and lowsec rewards is too minimal to matter. The other being the difference in rat quality already mentioned, with highsec having wimpy frigs, lowsec having wimpy cruisers, and 0.0 having WHAM! 3x bs spawns.
Originally by: N00byn00blar
(1) I need to meta-game (alts) to move haulers about.
(2) Just one "pirate" in local is enough to shut down operations until he's gone - that could be 2 minutes, it could be 2 days.
(3) I'm earning less than I would have in high-sec - that's fair enough, this low sec malarky is more fun because it's more dangerous, right?
(4) My attention has to be 100% on local - that is, I have to give Eve 100% attention while I'm in space - doing that while doing a relatively dull task is eventually going to make me lose the will to live.
1- not necessarily, by using your map or a friend you could accomplish this. Also, if you fit your hauler correctly, you can avoid many pirates.
2- that's because you're solo and not confident of your ship's capability to fight back, which is related to a point I'll make in a second.
3- You're earning less presumably because you're having to dock up, but also because the reward difference is miniscule between highsec and lowsec, what I am advocating should be changed.
4- Nobody's forcing you to mine :P. I've mined once, for about 4 minutes on an alt, and never done it since.
As for your other point that if you have protection, you might as well go to 0.0, that is very true. However its a question of logistics and safety. In 0.0 (depending on the region and the politics thereof) there are fewer stations to dock up in if a meanie comes into local and you might not be allowed access anyway. The alliance claiming that territory might take exception to you being there and attack. You have to deal with bubbles, capital blobs, and politics.
In lowsec, with the same guard I would expect you to be safer. You can dock up anywhere, you don't have to worry about whether or not you're "allowed" to be in the area, and there are no bubbles (although some b*stards do enjoy to hotdrop moms all over the place, but we don't want to talk about them).
Now I agree that you can make more mining in 0.0, and I'm fine with that - the risks are greater. For the smaller corp who doesn't want to pay to acess a given region or worry about politics, lowsec should be where their action is at. I am advocating that the jump from highsec to lowsec rewards in all their manifestations (mission agent quality, rat bounty, ore quality) should be as dramatic as the difference from lowsec to 0.0.
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Vixisti
Hammer 0f Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:17:00 -
[253]
I've read through most of the posts here and I agree that low sec is being wasted at the moment and needs repopulating to spread the player base out from high sec.
Those people saying that players should alter their playing habits to open up low sec are wasting their time. it'll never happen. What needs to be done is a slight altering of game mechanics to make it more worthwhile and easier to go into low sec. I'm not just talking about better rewards here, players need to be able to defend themselves more easily too.
Related to this is something that players have been moaning about for ages, the lack of a decent bounty hunter/anti-pirate solution.
1 - Boost gate gun defences in low sec.
2 - Make all negative sec players shootable by other players in low sec.
The first point will make it harder to camp gates allowing safer access to low sec areas. Exactly how the gate defences would be changed is up for discussion.(*Expect lots of gate camping pirates to whine at this point*)
Second point, most anti-pirates finish up being negative status themselves in short order - this change makes the profession less punishing and so long as the anti-pirates are willing to do a little bit of sec gaining to start with, they should find it much more of a rewarding profession keeping the scum and villainy in check  This will also make it easier to defend yourself in low sec as now it will be possible to initiate combat against less than hardcore pirates with no sec or gate gun penalty. I'm thinking here of escorting duty and also sentry duty on low sec ratting/mining ops etc
Not everyone wants to go to 0.0 and be part of the the whole pos warfare, laggy fleet battle, thing. I know loads of 0.0 dwellers who are looking for a change too. Perhaps something like this would provide a little more pvp enjoyment in low sec for non pirates, and would help open up low sec to solo and small corp players a bit more?
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isdisco3
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:42:00 -
[254]
if you are -5 or below, you are already shootable without penalty by anyone else.
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Vixisti
Hammer 0f Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:56:00 -
[255]
I know, hence my reference to 'ALL' neg standing players.
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Exlegion
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 17:02:00 -
[256]
As long as players can make even 1 ISK in high sec, yes, high sec will be very profitable when compared to low sec. That's because low sec is profitless. Period. Suggesting an obliteration to high sec rewards will only exacerbate the problem by escorting players out of Eve. I run missions in low sec and I can tell you that the constant interruptions, probes, and inconveniences do not make it worthwhile at all. I do it mostly for the thrill. And even that sometimes gets boring after having to avoid pirate gank squad after pirate gank squad. Pirates know where the supposed high-paying mission agents are. It's no secret.
There's no point in moving. I've done that already a few times. Also, the logistics required in me moving out every time pirates move in is a nightmare. I currently have a low sec mission 3 jumps away (all low sec systems) which I accepted a few days ago and have not yet started it because HIC's have made it next to impossible to move my mission battleship at the times I play.
Asking corp mates to escort me when I mission or for every low sec move my battleship makes is profitless, pointless, and ridiculous. Needless to say it's a waste of time for them as well when they themselves can be doing something more profitable or productive. The truth is low sec is not designed for soloing level 4 missions, solo ratting, or solo mining. Battleships have no place in low sec either, unless you're escorted by your own blob and fit for PVP. Mining in low sec is another nightmare. And, this will hurt some of you, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway. Pirates themselsves are destroying low sec. Most pirates welcomed the addition of the HICs into the game. I mean, come on... A module with infinte strength (a la God mode)? Hmmm, could I ask for a WCS with infinte strength?
Gate camps and now thanks to Trinity 1.1, station camps, are nothing but spawn point killings. Before you've even had a chance to spawn you're being targetted (Hello Privateers in Jita 4-4 :)). And you can't move five jumps in low sec without encountering a couple of pirates camping the gate for easy kills. The gate sentries are a joke. A serious NPC'er is not meant to survive in low sec. Sooner or later you will get caught. And when you do you will need to do 30 more missions uninterrupted just to recover your losses. Missioning, NPC'ing, and mining ships melt like butter against a PVP fit. Probing for carebears in low sec is becoming a joke, as pirates collect more bookmarks.
CCP is giving the pirates more and more tools and designs with which to beat carebears quicker and easier in low sec without adding rewards to compensate. And you wonder why there aren't carebears around to be your pi±ata? Don't get me wrong. I don't mind the piracy and actually it makes the game much more interesting. But it's getting to the point where there's nothing BUT pirates in low sec. Not only that, but now they're slowly creeping in to high sec in the form of no-reason wars, blowing up anything that's auto-piloting in high sec, blowing up anything mining in high sec, etc. Unfortunately, this game is truly a griefer's paradise and I wouldn't recommend it to just anyone.
As I said before, there's no such thing as an anti-pirate in this game. There is no real incentive into driving or hunting down pirates other than for a few minutes of fun. And there are no serious consequences to being a pirate. Most pirates circumvent the supposed hardships, such as alts to get around in high sec. Low sec pirates can't even be shot unless they're -5.0 in sec status or lower, though what you mainly see in low sec are "softer" pirates (-4.9+ sec status).
In order for low sec to be fixed there would need to be unwanted changes made not just to the carebears, but plenty for the low sec pirates as well. Only then could CCP even consider nerfing high sec into oblivion.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Cassandra Beckinsale
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.03.18 17:08:00 -
[257]
The solution of all eve society problems, so yet of 0.0 population, is only one. It is totally useless that you try to find any other reason. The main reason 0.0 is unpopulated is because tehre is no criminal activities in eve and no one can deal damage to pirates.
The main problem is not the fact that pirates roam in 0.0 sectors and kill anything, or that gate campers are everywhere and kill anyone just for fun. Non consensual pvp is perfect. The problem is that no one can retaliate, so pirates feel free to do anything.
Hunting pirates by players is pratically impossible, and the effort it need do not justify the damage a pirate have to sustain. The general feeling of a PIRATE have to be: "I have to do this for survive, but I am forced to hide!" In eve the general feeling of a pirate is:"I do this for fun because no one can harm me or retaliate".
If CCP want players in 0.0, tyhey have to give to "carebears" a true method to hunt and kill pirates menance, aka: if you want to be a pirate, it is ok, but you will be trated like this.
So, for example:
1. No insurance for pirates.
2. Security Status hits also in 0.0 if you are not at war.
3. Big security status hit (if you do a massacre you cannot be forgived)
4. Permanent security status penalty (After you have loss a total of -10 of security status, even in more hits, you will be fixed at -10.0 forever).
5. No access to regular market.
6. Every character that make a trade or give money to or get his ship can robbed by a pirate have a change to get a big security status penalty (may be modified by a skill, like Contraband).
7. Only 10.000.000 SP or more characters can trade or give money to a pirate (that for avoid alts character trading).
8. Make a corporation security status, that come from the lowest security status rpesent in the corporation. Bad security status coproation get the similar penalties.
9. Make the war declaration system valid: very high prices to declare wars, so if you declare, you will do it for a reason, not for kill for fun, and a war have to end only with the total annihlation of one of the corporations involved.
and in the end, create a valid bounty hunting system.
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Vixisti
Hammer 0f Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.18 17:14:00 -
[258]
We're talking about low sec ie: 0.4 - 0.1 There's nothing wrong with 0.0 mechanics.
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Doonoo Boonoo
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.18 17:31:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
Stuff
Strange ideas for someone who is the Alt of a Pirate.
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N00byn00blar
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.18 18:00:00 -
[260]
Edited by: N00byn00blar on 18/03/2008 17:59:59
Originally by: Exlegion
As long as players can make even 1 ISK in high sec, yes, high sec will be very profitable when compared to low sec. That's because low sec is profitless. Period. Suggesting an obliteration to high sec rewards will only exacerbate the problem by escorting players out of Eve. I run missions in low sec and I can tell you that the constant interruptions, probes, and inconveniences do not make it worthwhile at all. I do it mostly for the thrill. And even that sometimes gets boring after having to avoid pirate gank squad after pirate gank squad. Pirates know where the supposed high-paying mission agents are. It's no secret.
.....
What this guy said. I mean This. Absolutely, 100% this (all of it, not just my quote). I'm in low sec and spend more of my time docked waiting for the ADHD crowd to leave than I do out earning.
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.18 18:53:00 -
[261]
I wish CCP would add BS rats to -0.4 and bellow so I have something to do with my alts in between killing stupid, impatient idiots who don't use scouts.
/makes fart noise
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Senghir
Deep Space Security
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:01:00 -
[262]
Originally by: N00byn00blar
Edited by: N00byn00blar on 18/03/2008 17:59:59
Originally by: Exlegion
As long as players can make even 1 ISK in high sec, yes, high sec will be very profitable when compared to low sec. That's because low sec is profitless. Period. Suggesting an obliteration to high sec rewards will only exacerbate the problem by escorting players out of Eve. I run missions in low sec and I can tell you that the constant interruptions, probes, and inconveniences do not make it worthwhile at all. I do it mostly for the thrill. And even that sometimes gets boring after having to avoid pirate gank squad after pirate gank squad. Pirates know where the supposed high-paying mission agents are. It's no secret.
.....
What this guy said. I mean This. Absolutely, 100% this (all of it, not just my quote). I'm in low sec and spend more of my time docked waiting for the ADHD crowd to leave than I do out earning.
Yup. Exactly my feelings. I posted something just like this but got flamed by the same ADHD crowd.
Like I said before, I'm not here to stroke someone's epeen.
I'm not a carebear, in that I dont give a **** about the whining pirates who aren't getting to gank me in low sec.
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Exlegion
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:36:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Exlegion on 18/03/2008 19:43:15
Originally by: Alowishus
I wish CCP would add BS rats to -0.4 and bellow so I have something to do with my alts in between killing stupid, impatient idiots who don't use scouts.
Nevermind... I'd just be wasting both our times anyway.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:53:00 -
[264]
Edited by: Alowishus on 18/03/2008 19:54:40
I already saw your whine. No sense editing it out.
Once again, a long winded commentary on lowsec by someone who hasn't spent an appreciable amount of time in lowsec. Thank you.
1) Lowsec is not deserted. Even if I were to personally train every carebear how to travel through lowsec in safety- write a 300 page manual on it- the stupid impatient ones who don't realize it's their responsibility to prevent their suffering who already come here will still come here. Trust me, while probing out entire populations of lowsec mission runners would be a hoot for awhile, from an ISK making perspective idiots who transport cap ship BPOs in Punishers who get smartbombed are much preferred. And they're already here no matter what CCP may do to "fix" lowsec.
2) There are anti-pirates. Sometimes they're us. We see fleets of other pirates and non-pirates moving through lowsec daily looking for a fight. Their reward is the same as ours: loot and PvP. If they need extra incentive to come to lowsec then I demand extra incentive as well.
3) Eve is what you make of it. It's a PvP game. I constantly see people who have no interest in PvP saying Eve is griefers paradise. How ironic. Maybe if you had an interest in PvP, or took ingame steps to avoid it- rather than simply having a metagame stance of "not desiring PvP"- you wouldn't be such an easy target? I'm not saying that you should abandon all industry (or carebearing if you will) to take on "griefers" head on but a little effort on your part goes a long damn way.
4) I want to know why me and my alts are perfectly capable of traveling through and in and out of lowsec, as well as conducting business here, despite the "24/7 camps at every gate." Pirates don't play nice together, there are no intel channels, so why in the world would I be able to do whatever I want in lowsec and take minimal losses? Merely having a char who is a pirate does not give me immunity to the perils of lowsec so how is it that I, and especially my carebear alts, can survive here? Could it be that I am careful and do what I am supposed to do? There is this impression that if you go to lowsec you die instantly. The truth is that if you go to lowsec and die instantly, you're a moron.
/makes fart noise
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Kolwrath
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:07:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Nihilion Saro
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Eve needs to have ships explode for the economy to work, non-consent PVP is essential to Eve. If things are not consumed, then things are not purchased and built and mined and so forth. What Eve needs is ways to encourage smaller gang activity, solo activity and more people willing to put them selves in riskier environments for longer periods of time.
Suppose that you could get five times the numbers of players in a risk environment for five times as long before they blow up. The math puts the overall consumption rate at nearly the same level, just a little less, as currently. There are numerous ways to do this and those threads are all over the place, I'll let them speak for them selves.
The trouble with Eve PVP, and this applies to all security levels, is the impossible gank situations, session changes, blobs, paper thin industrial ships, capital overuse, hot drops, etc. Too much of Eve PVP relies on the concept known as "perfect information" and not enough reliance on "imperfect information" (anyone interested can look up these terms as they apply to game theory.)
That is what needs fixing. The fact that Eve has non-consent PVP is what makes the game what it is, and it needs to remain. What needs to change is how it is manifest.
Thanks. I do happen to be looking for a new job à ;)
CCP, hire this guy.
Yeah wow. CCP read this guys post. He's got it down pat.
Instead of:
"If I mine in lowsec I will be ganked".
its:
"If I mine in lowsec I might be ganked".
Originally by: Chaos Space Marines
Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
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Ivy Axisur
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:49:00 -
[266]
The vast majority of gamers are not hardcore PVPers. ESPECAILLY in Eve where the average age is higher than youÆd find in XBOX Live or whatever.
CCP and the players need to accept this if we're ever going to see major expansion of Eve's player base.
No matter what you put in low sec or 0.0, most gamers just donÆt want that sort of game experience.
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Juajuara
New Hope Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:57:00 -
[267]
Boy, I see a lot of things here that I agree with. My experience in low sec, is very short lived. Literally. A few forays that were successful, but largely, low sec is a place that I avoid.
The common thread I am seeing is Risk vs. Reward. Since that is the basis for nearly all decisions, I think this is a healthy discussion to have.
If it makes any difference, I agree that there is a problem with Risk vs. Reward, but I don't claim to have enough knowledge of all the game's dynamics to present a complete and unique solution. I will add to the mixing pot, hoping that CCP uses these forums to improve the game, and that you all keep contributing to help formulate the answer!
My 0.02 isk is that EVE is regulated by mathematics. All of the interactions, being computer based, are an exercise in modeling and simulation based on the universe conceived by CCP. At each for the "sec" boundaries-null sec, low sec, and high sec-there is a point discontinuity in Concord response and/or universe dynamics. I know this is by design, but I think that decision should be reconsidered to remove the discontinuities making a smooth transition between security levels. For example:
Sec 1.0 - 15 sec BBQ time
Sec 0.9 - Concord a little slower or weaker than 1.0
Sec 0.8 - Concord a little slower or weaker than 0.9
...
It seems to me that a number of opportunities exist in Low and Null sec that don't exist in high sec, but that the discontinuous implementation of Concord doesn't make the opportunities viable. The above implementation would give CCP additional flexibility in tuning, and I'm sure my recommendation would need a lot of tuning, the risk/reward structure in the entire EVE universe; but is obviously a sweeping change to the dynamics of the game and would have to be implemented carefully and slowly, if at all, to allow pilots to adjust as necessary.
What do you think?
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Sintho
Defenders of Roden
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:00:00 -
[268]
I have only been playing eve a short time, I started in high sec, and following the best agents for my corp I ended up in low sec. Until recently I have played most of my time in low sec. Someone mentioned something about no battleships, but there are tons of cosmic anomalies. Often when I use the onboard scanner at a belt I will find 3 or 4 anomalies in 1 scan. In one of these I blew up a BS and then 3 more attacked after. The BS had a nice bounty of about 500k isk(this was in a 0.3 system). Also at belts in my area you can find shadow serpents wing leaders with 1 mil plus bounty and nice loot. At another one I actually got blown up by npcs cause 2 of them were warp scrambling me and it took to long to figure out which ones.(that wouldnt happen with the new pictures on the overview)
Of course you are still not safe from pirates. I have been pretty lucky in my time in low sec maybe, only having been attacked a few times.(I only attack if attacked even if its blinking red) Often they dont attack me or maybe I warped to fast and they were planning to. I did get probed out and blown up in a mission 1 time. I fly a Myrm and the most recent time when I blew up(to the npcs) I had Hammerhead 2s, and they didnt blow up but before I got my new myrm and went out there someone had stolen only my hammerhead 2s(not sure how easy it is to probe for a wreck). I moved to high sec becasue I couldnt afford new Hammerhead 2 and I needed to make more isk before I will go risk it again.
I like the idea someone mentioned about being able to sell kill rights. I think it could help in makeing pirateing more dangerous. Which could make it so more people hunt for the pirates. And maybe make areas safer. Maybe pay a small amount up front or something and then pay full amount when ship is detroyed. It could be a contract. I havent thought to much about it but seems like it would help.(I am not sure though cause still only 1 person would have kill rights and they would have to try to blow the person up alone)
Sintho
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:13:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Ivy Axisur
CCP and the players need to accept this if we're ever going to see major expansion of Eve's player base.
First off, I've seen Eve go from 5000 players on Sunday to 40,000. I think it's expanded nicely.
Secondly you're generalizing like every other carebear tard. PvP and youth are not mutually exclusive things. I can't stand XBox Live or CS because of the constant verbal diarrhea and childishness. Eve, on the contrary, is full of thoughtful intelligent people who are fun to talk to and play the game with. And I only hang out with PvPers. Conversely you should see the things "mature non-PvPers" say to me when I destroy their ship. Disgusting, despicable things. If you left your little bubble you might realize that not are youth and PvP not mutually exclusive, neither is maturity.
Once again, a person speaking from their very limited Eve experience about things they have not seen for themselves. Thanks for your evaluation.
/makes fart noise
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:23:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Juajuara
Risk vs. Reward.
Simply put, this is not the problem. This is the problem for stupid people who do not want to be accountable for their own safety, whatsoever.
The problem for intelligent people is actually Time/Effort vs. Reward. If you do lowsec right, there is almost no risk to your ship or pod. That's not the problem. The problem is that it may take hours to get around, or wait out a camp to do a mission that doesn't pay all that much more than a high sec mission. Once there you may be interrupted several times by probers and etc. There are systems virtually devoid of piracy in lowsec but there is no way to guarantee you'll get a mission in one of those systems vs. getting one in a deathtrap, or having to pass through a deathtrap to get there. By the time you're done you've given up your time bonus and thus negated any benefit lowsec missions have over highsec ones and not only that, you could have run 25 highsec missions in the same amount of time- or more.
What needs to happen is lowsec missions need to be something entirely different. Not just highsec missions with a bump in LP and ISK. They need to be able to be done quickly, in the system you're already in and without big, slow, expensive ships. I've had some thoughts about this for awhile. It's the only solution because you can bump rewards up by 10x and it still won't be worth the effort when you can just do 10x highsec missions in the same amount of time.
/makes fart noise
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